The B-Ball Girl that refuses to face the flag

**Tall and Proud** · 03-02-2003, 12:08 PM

As a Canadian looking in...I have to say that I always thought the great thing about America (and Canada) is that it is your right to protest in any manner that does not physically hurt someone else. She is exercising her right as an American and the people who think she is wrong have their right to say so. As long as neither side does something physically harmful or wilfully unlawful (IE..she BURNS a US flag or someone who doesn't like her runs her down in a Honda).

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by John Promise
And you think God's going to be the one to protect you when the planes come crashing into our buildings? The US government crippled Al Queda. The US government tightened security at airports to curtail further hijackings. The US government is the one trying to protect you and your freedoms so 9/11 doesn't happen again.

God didn't even give those people a chance to absolve their sins before those planes incinerated their offices. And even if they were free of sins, how are their bodies supposed to join their souls after the appocolypse if the bodies were incinerated to nothing? When the end of the world comes, there are going to be four thousand people without bodies because God didn't even try to protect them.

I think he was being sarcastic not sure though.

**EXclusive Cam** · 03-02-2003, 12:14 PM

she can do whatever she wants. we do whatever the hell we wanna do.

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Tall and Proud
As a Canadian looking in...I have to say that I always thought the great thing about America (and Canada) is that it is your right to protest in any manner that does not physically hurt someone else. She is exercising her right as an American and the people who think she is wrong have their right to say so. As long as neither side does something physically harmful or wilfully unlawful (IE..she BURNS a US flag or someone who doesn't like her runs her down in a Honda).

I'm gonna run her down in a honda

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Pinch
I agree with her

Our country was supposedly founded on the basis of freedom, but we HAD slavery, we KILLED indians, we STOLE their land, we STOLE spanish territory...

She has her right to not face the flag...

One of the constants throughout history has been stronger nations conquering weaker nations. And we're no different. We're just a bit more aware of the negative aspects, and as such we've been more generous than previous conquerers.

Yes, slavery was wrong, but we ended it. And despite the racism and bigotry in this country, we've tried to incorporate them in our society.

Yes, we killed Indians and stole their land, but that's what happens when you conquer other nations. What makes us different, is that at least we gave the Indians something. Their reservations may not be prime land, but at least we let them exist there outside of our laws. We could have told the Indians tough ****. We could have forced them to assimilate completely, but we gave them the option of autonomy. It might not be a good option, but it's still an option no one else in history has offered.

Yes, we stole Spanish territory, but the Spanish were conquerers themselves. We have as much right to take it from them as they had to take it in the first place.

Now think about this. Every nation, no matter how strong, falls to a stonger nation in time. The US will be no different. Now do you think our conquerers will treat us as we have our conquered people? Do you think they'll allow us the same freedoms we have now, if we get any freedom at all? It's all fine and dandy to say you don't like this about our country or that about our country...everyone does that, but those who don't have the respect to even consider that this country has allowed them the right to disagree with it, then they will be the first in the furnace when our new overlords arrive.

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by EXclusive Cam
who cares? Killer Cam fought like a dog to preserve the rights of the people on this message board and he doesnt get respected for it.

That's because nobody likes you.

**el cabron.** · 03-02-2003, 12:23 PM

`sigh`

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by thewrestler14
I think he was being sarcastic not sure though.

You might be right. But there are a lot of people in this country that truly believe that. I really don't mean to attack people's beliefs, just arguing the issue and offering insights.

**BPP** · 03-02-2003, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by thewrestler14
That's because nobody likes you.

BUMP

shutup cam

you cant do "whatever the hell you want"

cant yell fire in a crowded theatre
cant kill people
cant burn the flag

shutup

**BPP** · 03-02-2003, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by EXclusive Cam
oh no ... im crying ... SHUTUP. take your stinking debate somewhere else , its so boring. instead of praising the USA, u should be reminiscent and thankful I am in your life

your not the mike tyson of this forum
your the peter mcneely
STFU
noone here likes you
your annoying as hell
andif you dont like the debate, get the hell out of the thread and go pladgerize tyson's quotes and make another rap thread somewhere else

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by EXclusive Cam
oh no ... im crying ... SHUTUP. take your stinking debate somewhere else , its so boring. instead of praising the USA, u should be reminiscent and thankful I am in your life

haha you make me sad

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by EXclusive Cam
forget this history crap. if it comes , it comes , but in the meantime, u can still kiss cams ass

If history isn't your cup of tea, you could always try Herstory. I'm sure you could find it on Amazon.com.

**Anomeley** · 03-02-2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by EXclusive Cam
she can do whatever she wants, end of discussion

Bull****. The flag has NOTHING to do with politics. NOTHING. It has flown over this country with many different political views at the helm. The country (and our flag) is above us all. It represents the struggle for freedom that this little bitch enjoys so she damn well better respect it.

That is the end of discussion.

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by EXclusive Cam
lol u dickhead .... i could care less, go slam your head in a urinal perhaps that will clear your head

please stop ruining the thread, the debate was actually going pretty well and flame free until you and your sadness came along.

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by thewrestler14
please stop ruining the thread, the debate was actually going pretty well and flame free until you and your sadness came along.

Bumb.

Some threads are meant to be flamefests, but others like this one are better left to intelligent debate.

**Marciano** · 03-02-2003, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by bigpoppaproppy
your not the mike tyson of this forum
your the peter mcneely
STFU
noone here likes you
your annoying as hell
andif you dont like the debate, get the hell out of the thread and go pladgerize tyson's quotes and make another rap thread somewhere else

come on now, mcneely's a friend of mine, and everytime he's been down to our AC he's taught me alot, and taken time to give me pointers, advice, whatever. he's a really great guy. i realize tyson whooped him, but he did win over 40 professional fights. i know you meant all this in jest, but he's a guy that's always been great to me, so please pick someone else. it's just hard seeing your friend be the constant butt of jokes, when he is a professional athlete who has accomplished more than anyone else on this forum so far. again, i know you meant no disrespect, but i'd appreciate it if you chose someone else next time.

**BPP** · 03-02-2003, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Marciano
come on now, mcneely's a friend of mine, and everytime he's been down to our AC he's taught me alot, and taken time to give me pointers, advice, whatever. he's a really great guy. i realize tyson whooped him, but he did win over 40 professional fights. i know you meant all this in jest, but he's a guy that's always been great to me, so please pick someone else. it's just hard seeing your friend be the constant butt of jokes, when he is a professional athlete who has accomplished more than anyone else on this forum so far. again, i know you meant no disrespect, but i'd appreciate it if you chose someone else next time.

sorry man
didnt know any of his history
just knew of him from the tyson fight
my bad

**Marciano** · 03-02-2003, 01:07 PM

no problem, always had respect for you and your opinions, it's just mcneely has turned into such a joke nationally, and i think he deserves better given his generosity to young fighters like me, and the fact that he did accomplish alot as a PRO boxer.

**EdselTrump** · 03-02-2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Pinch
I agree with her

Our country was supposedly founded on the basis of freedom, but we HAD slavery, we KILLED indians, we STOLE their land, we STOLE spanish territory...

She has her right to not face the flag...

And you, my friend, would be speaking German today if it weren't for the U.S. Military. Yes, history was brutal. How about Europe? The Crusades, anyone? Where do you think slavery started?

You're right, she has the right to not face the flag, and that right is something that I appreciate and love. I think she is a self-centered, egotistical, ignorant turncoat for doing it, but she does have that right.

I just have to say that while this country has problems and does stuff that really pisses me off, I love this country. I love the oppurtunities and freedoms it has given me. It allows me to go to the gym everyday. It allows me to fulfill my dream of becoming a film actor (a goal that is close within my grasp). It allows me to find a beautiful girl and be with her as much as I like. It allows me to do almost anything I want to do and to live my life on my own terms. I love this place and would do anything to protect my freedoms.

Is it perfect? Not by a long shot. But is it my home team? Hell yeah, and I'm not about to disown the home team just because they are struggling.

**EdselTrump** · 03-02-2003, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Marciano
no problem, always had respect for you and your opinions, it's just mcneely has turned into such a joke nationally, and i think he deserves better given his generosity to young fighters like me, and the fact that he did accomplish alot as a PRO boxer.

Ask him to make up some more nursery rhymes.

"I'm Peter McNeely, I'm sharp as glass. On saturday night, I'm gonna KICK TYSON'S ASS!"

Classic.

**Pinch** · 03-02-2003, 02:29 PM

this country blows

its just turning into a police state

they want you to think you have freedom but u don't have ****

America is the closest thing to communism ive seen so far

almost everyone is middle class and does the same boring **** throughout their lives...

school -> college -> job -> retire -> die

woopiee

**Northman** · 03-02-2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Pinch

America is the closest thing to communism ive seen so far

I think you mean totalitarianism, which (so far) appears to be the end result of communism.

**BPP** · 03-02-2003, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by EdselTrump
And you, my friend, would be speaking German today if it weren't for the U.S. Military. Yes, history was brutal. How about Europe? The Crusades, anyone? Where do you think slavery started?

You're right, she has the right to not face the flag, and that right is something that I appreciate and love. I think she is a self-centered, egotistical, ignorant turncoat for doing it, but she does have that right.

I just have to say that while this country has problems and does stuff that really pisses me off, I love this country. I love the oppurtunities and freedoms it has given me. It allows me to go to the gym everyday. It allows me to fulfill my dream of becoming a film actor (a goal that is close within my grasp). It allows me to find a beautiful girl and be with her as much as I like. It allows me to do almost anything I want to do and to live my life on my own terms. I love this place and would do anything to protect my freedoms.

Is it perfect? Not by a long shot. But is it my home team? Hell yeah, and I'm not about to disown the home team just because they are struggling.

well said my friend

**goblin6** · 03-02-2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Pinch
this country blows

its just turning into a police state

they want you to think you have freedom but u don't have ****

America is the closest thing to communism ive seen so far

almost everyone is middle class and does the same boring **** throughout their lives...

school -> college -> job -> retire -> die

woopiee

And what freedoms do we think we have but do not. Do you think in a totalatarian country someone could get away with what she is doing. Somehow I doubt it.
you are free to thik what you want and expresses, something you cannot do in a communistic or totaltarian country or to try and better your life. Its all in how you live it.
I get real sick of hearing the police state argument, oh they are taking our freedoms, really and what would those be, name them.
The freedom to peaceable assemble, don't think so. Freedom to protest, obviously not.
The freedom of religion, I have not seen churches mosques or synagogues(sp?) being closed.
Right to free speech, hmmm not that either.
So just how is the US turning into a police state?

**Northman** · 03-02-2003, 03:18 PM

No, of course not. It's a composite of freedom and restriction.

For example, I can jump into my car and travel wherever I wish. However, if I don't wear a seat belt I will be pulled over and fined.

My children can attend nearly any public school, but cannot pray out loud.

Etc., etc.

I once heard someone describe England as a "Free-ish" country. I think the same goes for the USA.

I suppose any large country must add the above suffix to maintain order. The seatbelt fines are/were only around $40 anyway....

**goblin6** · 03-02-2003, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Northman
No, of course not. It's a composite of freedom and restriction.

For example, I can jump into my car and travel wherever I wish. However, if I don't wear a seat belt I will be pulled over and fined.

My children can attend nearly any public school, but cannot pray out loud.

Etc., etc.

I once heard someone describe England as a "Free-ish" country. I think the same goes for the USA.

I suppose any large country must add the above suffix to maintain order. The seatbelt fines are/were only around $40 anyway....

your children can pray out loud, the school cannot make them pray out loud. In a police state they would not be allowd to pray at all.
But I understand your point.

**Smackdown** · 03-02-2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by EdselTrump
And you, my friend, would be speaking German today if it weren't for the U.S. Military. Yes, history was brutal. How about Europe? The Crusades, anyone? Where do you think slavery started?

You're right, she has the right to not face the flag, and that right is something that I appreciate and love. I think she is a self-centered, egotistical, ignorant turncoat for doing it, but she does have that right.

I just have to say that while this country has problems and does stuff that really pisses me off, I love this country. I love the oppurtunities and freedoms it has given me. It allows me to go to the gym everyday. It allows me to fulfill my dream of becoming a film actor (a goal that is close within my grasp). It allows me to find a beautiful girl and be with her as much as I like. It allows me to do almost anything I want to do and to live my life on my own terms. I love this place and would do anything to protect my freedoms.

Is it perfect? Not by a long shot. But is it my home team? Hell yeah, and I'm not about to disown the home team just because they are struggling.

If I hear one more ******* credit the defeat of the Nazis at the hands of the soviets to the Americans I'm gonna scream. Let me remind of you of this and BPR stop bumping these guys, you were in that thread with me and you know that crediting the americans with beating the nazis is a blatant falsehood.

As for the girl, let her do what she wants. This isn't Nazi germany where YOU MUST SALUTE THE FLAG OR DIE.

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 04:11 PM

We're not asking her to salute the flag...just to stand there with her team and not make an ass of herself while the rest of the stadium respects our country and honors its history and heritage. I said it before that all she has to do is close her eyes, but she chooses to draw everyone's attention onto her when everyone's supposed to be thinking about the rights and freedoms this nation has offered us. As I have said, if she wants to protest the nation, she can stand outside with a placard or write an article to the school newspaper. Instead she wants to be the primadonna drama queen at the center of everyone's attention. Well if she wants to spin around so much, why doesn't she trade in her BBall jersey for a pair of ballet shoes?

**BPP** · 03-02-2003, 05:41 PM

I was bumpin more of the second half

just have to say that while this country has problems and does stuff that really pisses me off, I love this country. I love the oppurtunities and freedoms it has given me. It allows me to go to the gym everyday. It allows me to fulfill my dream of becoming a film actor (a goal that is close within my grasp). It allows me to find a beautiful girl and be with her as much as I like. It allows me to do almost anything I want to do and to live my life on my own terms. I love this place and would do anything to protect my freedoms.

Is it perfect? Not by a long shot. But is it my home team? Hell yeah, and I'm not about to disown the home team just because they are struggling.

and also yeah, maybe in that case it was Russia, but if things didnt go as thye had in our history, we very well could be speaking *some* other language today

**MartialArtist** · 03-02-2003, 06:35 PM

She's trying to exercise her rights of free speech?

At least you have the oppourtunity, at least respect those who fought so you could have that luxury and face the flag. It's one thing to have a peaceful protest of some sort (like a picket march) but to turn your back on the flag means you're turning your back on the entire country, and EVERYBODY and I mean everybody in the history of the US.

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