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  1. #1
    Member arkangel's Avatar
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    Smile Women And Bodybuilding...

    Help me out here,
    Occasionally, I head for the newstands and look through muscle mags. I know I won't look like any of these folks, but you have to admire the view... at least in passing.
    I remember being impressed by a handful of women bodybuilders... Rachel McLesh, and Cory Everson... they had such great bodies and still had not lost their feminine features. I thought they were very beautiful.
    YET... I also saw a lot of women who really did lose most of what most men would associate with "the art of femininity"... their features were blurred by almost unnatural muscles and their faces seemed bloated.
    Why and how do some women manage to bodybuild and still retain their feminine form and others seem to morph into almost mutants??? Is there a difference in the chemistry between men and women??? Do the same supplements that give men that respected bulk, give women a raw deal???
    Just curious!!!

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  2. #2
    Member Belle's Avatar
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    It is an awful lot to do with the fact that

    Men's testosterone levels are somewhat higher than women's. In fact the average 20 yo woman may have as high as 120 ng/dl depending on what day in the month it is, and the men have as high at 950 ng/dl. This is some 7-8 times higher and is quite obviously the reason why men have bigger gains. As an aside, I don't do bodybuilding to build the type of shape that some women attain in body building. If women can achieve good gains without losing their "feminity" without supplementing themselves with top up's or anabolic steroids then more power to them. I could not take drugs to be honest...I think it is about building your shape on what Mother nature gave you as a woman. I don't plan on going quite that far as some have...I think I like my feminine softness too much for that. Some are so extensively developed and they do seem to me to be moving away from feminity, but then what is feminity truly? If a woman can achieve that shape and has the ability to do that naturally, I think that is good--that is more than likely why they compete. They are still feminine a lot of the time. I think that the furthest I would go is to just have an awesome female shape and build but with still some element of softness as I said. In comparing them to men I have to say that women should not be competing with men--they never can, they just compete with other women. I always perceived that if you needed to take extra male hormones to do that, then it was similar to cheating really, because really you need to be doing what you can as I said earlier on what Mother nature gave you in the way of hormone.

    I think the secret to keeping that softness is to just not let yourself get to overdone. It is like baking a cake really...we all like to bake it differently, but sometimes you have to make sure that the cooking time is not exceeded. Well that's how I see it anyway...
    Last edited by Belle; 02-24-2003 at 11:33 PM.
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  3. #3
    Dogg Pound Training Gollum's Avatar
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    arkangel,

    The monsters you are referring to aern't turning into mutants,they are turning into men thanks to the drugs they are taking.They are pulverizing themselves with male hormones,steroids and other drugs and thus are developing male characteristics.The bloated faces are a common side effect.The other female bodybuilders you mentioned who have fantastic,muscular bodies but still look female either do not take such drugs or use them very cautiously.

    Like anything else in life,some people are going to go overboard.There are even some male bodybuilders who I think have gone beyond what is pleasing to look at and now resemble gargoyles.I wouldnt mind looking like Lee Labrada,but I would pass on looking like Ronnie Coleman.

    In some ways your statement about certain supplements giving men bulk and women a raw deal is true.If you want to retain your feminine features,there are certain things you just want to stay away from.Even things like 1AD and 1tests could have negative effects on females.However,there is no reason why you cant use protein powders,vitamin/minerals,creatine and many other things to enhance your physique while not sacrificing your femininity.

    The short answer:Train hard,eat well and often,take some good quality supplements that dont effect hormone levels and you will develop a nice,shapely,muscular build.Unless you have 1 in 10,000 genetics to gain muscle,you wont become a freak like you see in magazines without drugs.
    Last edited by Gollum; 02-25-2003 at 11:14 PM.
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  4. #4
    Member arkangel's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Thanks for the info

    WOW!!!
    Thanks for the information.
    I'm one of these folks who walks into GNC and has NO CLUE about what half of these powders and such are for... much less what effect it will have on your system.
    Some folks use these things and look fantastic, and others... well, who knows.
    It was just one of those things, I was always curious about. It always seemed to me that the differences between the male and female body, in terms of chemistry, must be like night and day... what would work for one would not exactly help the other... like TOFU... probabily really good for women (source of estrogen) but too much probabily wouldn't be too good for men, in the long run.
    The whole thing about "flexing" was always a bit overwhelming for me... pictures of these folks when they weren't "flexed" always seemed so different than when they were waxed up and in competition.
    Anyway, thanks for all the info... now I know a lot more about why some female bodybuilders look like Rachel McLesh and others certainly don't.
    Here's to eating healthy things and pumping iron effectively.

    Arkangel
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  5. #5
    Member Belle's Avatar
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    Yeh maybe tofu is not good for men?

    http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/Male%20Health.htm
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  6. #6
    Member arkangel's Avatar
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    Cool Thanks

    Thanks for the article... pretty scary, since I've eaten more than a little soy in my life... LOL!!! Nah... I believe in balance in a diet, so all the food groups get pretty represented.
    My girlfriend and I are on a high-protein and low carb diet now and eating all this meat is great!!! I really don't miss all the carbs, pastas, and other things for the most part. Some things are puzzling.. like the fact that a banana is almost 50 carbs all by itself. What a downer!!!
    Write again real soon.

    Arkangel
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  7. #7
    Member Belle's Avatar
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    I know

    I love bananas sliced with mixed nut's and cream... I miss them immensely.

    Other than that I don't mis the carbs anyway, well atleast not the high glycaemic ones such as pasta like you said. I always felt that they were just a "filler" and that the meat and vegies were the quality stuff on my plate really. I'm just thinking, since we're cutting back the carbs some...we should occasionally be able to indulge in bananas? Listen to me tryiing to justify a banana binge now...lol!!!! My bad?
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  8. #8
    Registered User Laurie's Avatar
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    You can look at the women who participate in the Met-RX "Strong Woman" contests, the past three years, as an example of different body shapes.

    This is according to genetics, how they started out, training and a host of other factors. Their backgrounds are very diverse. Some can look very feminine and yet are very strong like Finland's Heini Koivuniemi. Some have bulk like Jill Mills (who started out as a powerlifter) while others look very athletic like Shannon Hartnett. A few did start out as bodybuilders before getting into this sport.

    They are not competing with the guys although the strength contests are similar. Canada's Josee Morneau grew up on a farm and got her beginnings by just working there.

    I have heard alot of misconceptions about what these contenders are supposed to look like from friends. That is until I show them photos or point to the ESPN showing of the contests.

    Here is a page showing the contenders from the recent 2002 WSW contest in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

    http://www.jillmills.com/jm/events/w...trongwomen.htm

    None of these, I would call "mutants" or really "unfeminine".

    Women bodybuilding has gone through a lot of changes over the years. A lot of controversy too as to what is to be "feminine" and being a bodybuilder. Some of the decisions have been arbitary. Just as it used to be women were limited to what they could do in sports and all the "myths" with that.

    Some women bodybuilders have tried to see just how far they can go...and more power to them. The same thing with the "Fitness" contestants....although they look more like contests for former gymnasts. I am not interested in looking "just like" a fitness model in the fitness mags. If I could look even close in body shape and be nearly as strong as, say, Scotland's Jackie Young (she weighed 175lbs for this contest) ....that is fine with me.
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  9. #9
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    Jill Mills is a tower of power...
    She rules that world..
    And yes things they r a changing Laurie !!
    some people like the change, and then again some dont.
    Its all a personal preference..

    I had and old gf who was 5'4 and about 175 lbs, but she was all muscle and very symettrical..she got soo many looks and i always got asked how I found that attractive, thats was an easy answer for me, i kinda like that look..I would say most guys would say no, but to me she was smokin..Specially since she couldve been Sandra Bullocks twin sister !!!
    so Laurie, be what u wanna be, have yer own goals and be you !!!!
    Good luck !!!

    Gator
    Originally posted by Laurie
    You can look at the women who participate in the Met-RX "Strong Woman" contests, the past three years, as an example of different body shapes.

    This is according to genetics, how they started out, training and a host of other factors. Their backgrounds are very diverse. Some can look very feminine and yet are very strong like Finland's Heini Koivuniemi. Some have bulk like Jill Mills (who started out as a powerlifter) while others look very athletic like Shannon Hartnett. A few did start out as bodybuilders before getting into this sport.

    They are not competing with the guys although the strength contests are similar. Canada's Josee Morneau grew up on a farm and got her beginnings by just working there.

    I have heard alot of misconceptions about what these contenders are supposed to look like from friends. That is until I show them photos or point to the ESPN showing of the contests.

    Here is a page showing the contenders from the recent 2002 WSW contest in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

    http://www.jillmills.com/jm/events/w...trongwomen.htm

    None of these, I would call "mutants" or really "unfeminine".

    Women bodybuilding has gone through a lot of changes over the years. A lot of controversy too as to what is to be "feminine" and being a bodybuilder. Some of the decisions have been arbitary. Just as it used to be women were limited to what they could do in sports and all the "myths" with that.

    Some women bodybuilders have tried to see just how far they can go...and more power to them. The same thing with the "Fitness" contestants....although they look more like contests for former gymnasts. I am not interested in looking "just like" a fitness model in the fitness mags. If I could look even close in body shape and be nearly as strong as, say, Scotland's Jackie Young (she weighed 175lbs for this contest) ....that is fine with me.
    Damn greens are like kryptonite this year !!!!
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  10. #10
    GOOOO COCKS!!!!! Hibiscus09's Avatar
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    Yikes! Her quads are bigger than my whole body! That is just too big for me. Monica Brandt looks nice but as for the rest of them, I would not want my quads to be bigger than my husband's. To each his/her own, but I think Jill Mills is way too big & the two to the left of her may be men.
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  11. #11
    Member tracyb555's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Laurie
    Here is a page showing the contenders from the recent 2002 WSW contest in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

    http://www.jillmills.com/jm/events/w...trongwomen.htm

    None of these, I would call "mutants" or really "unfeminine".
    Laurie,

    Thanks for posting this to give us some pics of women who are not the stereotypical female body, yet don't have the warped (somewhat masculine) facial features of some women you see in magazines. As far as body types go, I can see some resemblance of my lower body to that of Shannon Hartnett. Now, I've just got to work on getting the upper body to help balance it out!
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  12. #12
    Member tracyb555's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Hibiscus09
    Monica Brandt looks nice but as for the rest of them, I would not want my quads to be bigger than my husband's.
    LOL! Guess that's why I've always been attracted to men with big legs. Can't have a guy whose legs are smaller than mine! However, while my hubby's quads are bigger than mine, I think my calves are larger than his. I keep challenging him to a calf measure-off, but he won't take me up on it.
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  13. #13
    GOOOO COCKS!!!!! Hibiscus09's Avatar
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    My calves are big also but not shapely as I'm sure yours are from all the running.
    "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7

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  14. #14
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    OK, lets have the "Over 35 First Ever Calf Off" !!!

    LOL

    Gator
    Originally posted by Hibiscus09
    My calves are big also but not shapely as I'm sure yours are from all the running. :)
    Damn greens are like kryptonite this year !!!!
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  15. #15
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    Shannon has got the best build in the group IMO. But Heini is definately the most feminine looking IMO.

    The first four in the group from the left are just to beefy looking for me.

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    Member Belle's Avatar
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    Yeh I thought that too...I prefer a much leaner look and more muscle definition.
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  17. #17
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    Thumbs up I'm impressed!!! Thanks!!!

    Thanks for the photo...
    Taking this strictly from a guy's POV, and including my great love of bigger women... I'd have to cast the best votes for Mills, Young, and Hartnett. Very cute... they look like they're really fun to be around. I really like a physical gal you can wrestle with.
    WOW... they're all pretty nice, on the whole.
    Thanks again... looking at all those beautiful women really picked up my night... work is awful!!!

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    Re: I'm impressed!!! Thanks!!!

    Im w/ya Ark...
    And dont stress about work my friend..

    Gator
    Originally posted by arkangel
    Thanks for the photo...
    Taking this strictly from a guy's POV, and including my great love of bigger women... I'd have to cast the best votes for Mills, Young, and Hartnett. Very cute... they look like they're really fun to be around. I really like a physical gal you can wrestle with.
    WOW... they're all pretty nice, on the whole.
    Thanks again... looking at all those beautiful women really picked up my night... work is awful!!!

    Arkangel
    Damn greens are like kryptonite this year !!!!
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  19. #19
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    Re: Women And Bodybuilding...


    Why and how do some women manage to bodybuild and still retain their feminine form and others seem to morph into almost mutants??? Is there a difference in the chemistry between men and women??? Do the same supplements that give men that respected bulk, give women a raw deal???
    Just curious!!!
    It has to do with the fact whether they took their boyfriends "vitamins" or not.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Re: Women And Bodybuilding...

    Whatta ya mean ??? LOL

    Gator
    Originally posted by MsFit
    It has to do with the fact whether they took their boyfriends "vitamins" or not. ;) :D
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    Member arkangel's Avatar
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    Talking It must be great...

    Strange, but you always hear guys complain when they're dragged off to home-and-garden shows, and many other "women"-type events.
    What a cool situation to pump iron with your girlfriend!!! It's the best... men and women sweating, pumping iron and feeling healthy and spunky afterward... or is that just me... LOL!!!
    Hell, maybe they'll like football and ice hockey too...

    Arkangel
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    Re: It must be great...

    Originally posted by arkangel
    What a cool situation to pump iron with your girlfriend!!!
    It would seem that way, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, mixed-gender workout partners, even if they start out at approximately the same strength level, will not stay at the same strength level. Even if the woman takes something like Anavar (one of the "vitamins" at which MsFit hinted, preferred because of its lesser androgenic properties, as opposed to something like Dianabol), the physical differences between the genders will cause a man and woman that work equally hard in the gym to part ways (for a more compatible workout partner, I mean) eventually.

    Also consider, for example, a 120 lb woman and 180 lb man (both reasonably fit), not an unrealistic scenario. Would we even expect the physical strength of these two (both reasonably fit) to be in the same ballpark? Hell, no, we wouldn't. Add weight training and time, and the difference will grow even further.
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    Message Board King MiloMan's Avatar
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    Consider these two, both incredibly strong, at the top of their form, but lifting nowhere the same poundage.

    Here is a story on Swanson:

    http://www.adrenalineadventures.net/news/264.html

    Mendelson benches slightly under 800. She benches about 340. Large difference (still a damn strong woman though).
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    She looks like Jodie Foster in the face a little, around the eyes.
    There is a couple at my gym that work out together all the time. he is BIG, and she is small, but well developed. They do not seem to have any problems. They are like coaches for eachother and check eachother's form and stuff. They do sit ups and the other night every time he sat up she pulled a face... it's quite cute really.
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    Originally posted by Belle
    She looks like Jodie Foster in the face a little, around the eyes.
    There is a couple at my gym that work out together all the time. he is BIG, and she is small, but well developed. They do not seem to have any problems. They are like coaches for eachother and check eachother's form and stuff. They do sit ups and the other night every time he sat up she pulled a face... it's quite cute really.
    Just adorable. I suppose they like loading or unloading an enormous number of plates after each gets done with a set, or do they just use selectorized equipment?
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    Me & my sweetie used to workout a lot together but now we just workout around each other at the same time of day. That way we have a spot & don't have to do all the crazy weight taking on & off. Plus, he's 6'3" & I'm 5'4" which became a problem when we used the machines and had to make all the adjustments. A sad breakup tis true but we still smooch each other goodbye when one finishes working out before the other. LOL
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    They do use plates a lot. They seem to take turns doing each exercise before they move onto the next exercise.

    I'll have to take my digital camera in sometime and snap a few pics of the gym and folks actually. See if I can get their permission. There is that couple (they are in their thirties) and then another older couple still whom are early 50's I'd say. The latter just appear to do the weights for fitness more than body building.
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    Smile Men and Women...

    I don't know... I guess when I spoke about men and women lifting together, I meant that they both enjoyed the fun and the benefits of pumping iron, working out and feeling at the top of their game.
    I think anything, along fitness lines, two people can do only enhances everyone's ability to get more out of it.
    Not only do my girlfriend and I try to get in better shape together but we also do Yoga once or twice a day, and try to help each other stay on a sensible eating plan. It's great to help each other work harder and improve.
    One of these days, both my girlfriend and I hope to get our certification as teachers for Iyangar Yoga. When working out is such a positive experience, it only makes you want to make it count.
    I'm happy to see so many folks feel the same way.

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    Re: Men and Women...

    Good point Ark..As long as the 2 people see the gold at the end of the rainbow !!!
    But theres no way i could ever workout w/my better half.
    She talks, I dont.
    She takes her time, I dont.
    She wastes time, I dont. LOL

    But as long as we meet my the door at the end of our time there, thats what matters..LOL

    Gator

    Originally posted by arkangel
    I don't know... I guess when I spoke about men and women lifting together, I meant that they both enjoyed the fun and the benefits of pumping iron, working out and feeling at the top of their game.
    I think anything, along fitness lines, two people can do only enhances everyone's ability to get more out of it.
    Not only do my girlfriend and I try to get in better shape together but we also do Yoga once or twice a day, and try to help each other stay on a sensible eating plan. It's great to help each other work harder and improve.
    One of these days, both my girlfriend and I hope to get our certification as teachers for Iyangar Yoga. When working out is such a positive experience, it only makes you want to make it count.
    I'm happy to see so many folks feel the same way.

    Arkangel
    Damn greens are like kryptonite this year !!!!
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    Member arkangel's Avatar
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    Cool Great Temples...

    You know, this whole concept of "body work" is kind of amazing.
    My girlfriend and I work in a lot of different arenas-- yoga, aerobics, weights, and the usual take-a-walk things. It's amazing how different you feel in your body when all this begins to kick in. You can almost feel how heavy your bones are.
    Well, it's healthy... and it helps you cope with an arbitarary world... so what can be wrong with that.
    Just a question... is everyone strictly barbells or are there some dumbbell people out there... I use both... what does everyone else think.

    Arkangel
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