Beta Ecdysterone

[Androgenic]

What was high dosing?

I went up to 10 caps in a serving. I'd say that's a whopping dose.

[DRP7]

No thanks

hehe, well first of all, I would like to try to understand why some people have success with ecdy and others not.
I definitely cannot and don't want to exclude the possibility that positive ecdy results are actually placebo-effects only.
However, whenever some people claim huge results while other claim complete failure of a substance it is worthwile to explore the circumstances for both scenarios (the failure and the success).

the following possibilities exist:

1. Ecdy does not at all work in humans and all positive anecdotal evidence is solely placebo effect or statistical noise.

2. Ecdy does not at all work for some people but can work for others. Maybe there is some unknown genetical property that determines if you are a responder or not. Please remember that appr. 15% of the people do NOT respond to creatine. It's just genetics! they can take 2 lbs of CEE at once and their creatine stores will not increase by a single iota.

3. Ecdy can be effective in some persons, but only under certain circumstances. particularly, such circumstances have been assumed to be sufficient protein + calorie intake. If ecdysterone indeed has some anabolic properties, then it will increase your caloric and protein demands. If you don't meet them, you won't gain any mass. Even pure and raw testosterone will not give you satisfactory mass gains if you don't eat correctly. I remember a lot of people who were completely dissapointed after their SD or PP cycle and in the end it turned out that they simply ate 2.000 kcal per day.

4. It is very debatable which extract and which fractio of the extract is the "really effective" part. it has been assumed that rhaponticum exctracts may be more effective than other extracts. to my knowledge, there are no direct comparative studies. but all studies that have shown anabolic effects in animals have used rhaponticum extract. This raises the possibility that it's possibly not ecdysterone by itself taht has anabolic effects in animals but possibly some other co-substrates that occur only in rhaponticum but not in other plants. however, there is absolutely no conclusive knowledge on this, but it is a possible answer why sometimes no positive effects could be shown with ecdy.


In the end, I really don't want to "convince" you or to argue with you. I am just curious to learn why some people have effects while others do not. I think that everybody who is truly interested in supplements more or less shares this curiosity with me.

best regards


david

[Androgenic]

hehe, well first of all, I would like to try to understand why some people have success with ecdy and others not.
I definitely cannot and don't want to exclude the possibility that positive ecdy results are actually placebo-effects only.
However, whenever some people claim huge results while other claim complete failure of a substance it is worthwile to explore the circumstances for both scenarios (the failure and the success).

the following possibilities exist:

1. Ecdy does not at all work in humans and all positive anecdotal evidence is solely placebo effect or statistical noise.

2. Ecdy does not at all work for some people but can work for others. Maybe there is some unknown genetical property that determines if you are a responder or not. Please remember that appr. 15% of the people do NOT respond to creatine. It's just genetics! they can take 2 lbs of CEE at once and their creatine stores will not increase by a single iota.

3. Ecdy can be effective in some persons, but only under certain circumstances. particularly, such circumstances have been assumed to be sufficient protein + calorie intake. If ecdysterone indeed has some anabolic properties, then it will increase your caloric and protein demands. If you don't meet them, you won't gain any mass. Even pure and raw testosterone will not give you satisfactory mass gains if you don't eat correctly. I remember a lot of people who were completely dissapointed after their SD or PP cycle and in the end it turned out that they simply ate 2.000 kcal per day.

4. It is very debatable which extract and which fractio of the extract is the "really effective" part. it has been assumed that rhaponticum exctracts may be more effective than other extracts. to my knowledge, there are no direct comparative studies. but all studies that have shown anabolic effects in animals have used rhaponticum extract. This raises the possibility that it's possibly not ecdysterone by itself taht has anabolic effects in animals but possibly some other co-substrates that occur only in rhaponticum but not in other plants. however, there is absolutely no conclusive knowledge on this, but it is a possible answer why sometimes no positive effects could be shown with ecdy.


In the end, I really don't want to "convince" you or to argue with you. I am just curious to learn why some people have effects while others do not. I think that everybody who is truly interested in supplements more or less shares this curiosity with me.

best regards


david

Excellent post. Well thought and and mature response and what I like most, scientifically rational. Kudos!

[cart678]

would Universal Animal M-Stak be suitable for drug tested athletes? It's got Ecdy in it but it says its really strong.. ? I had to sign this thing the other year agreeing that I can be randomly drug tested for rugby so I don't want to go taking anything illeagal..?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/un...almethoxy.html

[Jimmorrison]

I have had +7 years of bbuilding and testing diffrent kinds of supps.
The 2 ecdy products that i have used is Ecysten and Eiselt´s Retibol.
Non of the two did anything for me.

Henrik Eiselt says that you have to train in a sertain way to have effect from retibol.
I just dont agree with him.

My conclusin is that ecdy has no effect on humans.
That is based on my own experience,some logs around the forums and the article i put out here in this thread.

[BiggJohn]

I went up to 10 caps in a serving. I'd say that's a whopping dose.

I ran it at 16-18 caps per day and had noticable effects.

[DRP7]

I ran it at 16-18 caps per day and had noticable effects.

BiggJohn, which product did you use?

[BiggJohn]

BiggJohn, which product did you use?

SyntraEC.

Very noticable increase in muscle hardness, strength increased.

[Jimmorrison]

bump..

[kingkonggyi]

SyntraEC.

Very noticable increase in muscle hardness, strength increased.

2 grams + / day.... what about the muscle mass ?? i hav actually started trying Syntrax EC and still keep reading others' reviews on ecdy products. mind giving some detailed info on what really it did for you, bro.

[BiggJohn]

2 grams + / day.... what about the muscle mass ?? i hav actually started trying Syntrax EC and still keep reading others' reviews on ecdy products. mind giving some detailed info on what really it did for you, bro.

It bumped up my strength while I was cutting and also gave some muscle hardening effects which was nice. Using 16-18 caps per day is not economical but it is very effective.

[kingkonggyi]

It bumped up my strength while I was cutting and also gave some muscle hardening effects which was nice. Using 16-18 caps per day is not economical but it is very effective.

oh, i see, thanks for the reply. right now, i just use 6 caps a day, intend to do it for 15 days and see if i get results,,,, if i am not satisfied with it, will up the dose when i use the next bottle that i hav. Also will update everyone here on what it does for me. Whenever i look for reviews on particular supplements, there hav always been ppl who keep bashing them when they hav never used one... like when i read reviews on T bomb II,,, i did not use it but i used/ and keep using it, Testostrogrow which has same ingredients and put on 5 lbs in 4 weeks with even less bodyfat %. Anyway, hope this one works well for me if it doesnt, i hav just wasted 90 bucks.

[DaveGabe24]

Here's my review on my two month cycle of E-Bol:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1878291

and here's the log if you want to see all my workouts, weight increases, etc.:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1015527

[kingkonggyi]

Here's my review on my two month cycle of E-Bol:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1878291

and here's the log if you want to see all my workouts, weight increases, etc.:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1015527

haha, this is very nice of you to let me know detailed info on what it did/does for you, bro, i also see others who kept log there, very impressive results. I know the extract in E bol is 99%, the most potent of all sources, and the one in Syntra EC is 72 % ( minimum of 50 % to be effective from what i hav read ) if i am not wrong, but for Syntra EC it is cheaper and can take in a lot higher dose, so i hope Syntra EC would do the same to me as E bol does for you. Great Review On E bol

[rhaas]

So how much should you increase your caloric and protein intake while on ebol or ecdy. How about for bulking and cutting phases? I am currently consuming 1.5x's my weight for protein mainly from whole food sources.

[rhaas]

bump

[kingkonggyi]

lol, someone who has used answer him.. my thinking is that you just divide da dose evenly so that ur body get continuous supply of ecdy, and should be ok as long as we take 35-50 grams of protein with it, i dont think it matter much bcos it doesnt increase protein synthesis only during meal time,,, so if it increase the protein synthesis, it is supposed to do it throughout the day, so all i think we hav to do it take in protein rich meals.

[kingkonggyi]

http://www.supplementtracker.com/for...stostrogrow/0/


This is my Syntra EC + Testostrogrow log. The scale showed i gained 3.5 kg after 10 days, it is today. Sound too good to be true and i also dont believe it, and i will continue to use it for 10 more days and see if i still gain anymore lbs. Only after that i wil make comments on this product. Or may be bcos of salt + sodium, i gained lots of water weight ?? still see 4 pack now.. lol

[BiggJohn]

3.5 kg = 7.72 lbs Some that could be water, some could be glycogen, but certainly not all of it. Good work. What dosage of syntra EC are you using.

[cotton310]

bump

[kingkonggyi]

3.5 kg = 7.72 lbs Some that could be water, some could be glycogen, but certainly not all of it. Good work. What dosage of syntra EC are you using.

yeah, i think could be bcos of water retension. been using only 6 caps = 1200 mg a day. stacking it with testostrogrow. will measure the weight soon and let you know.

[SupaNatural]

The extra protein is more anabolic than any Ecdy supp.

There is a point of decreasing returns with increased protein intake though. Too much and you're excreting what your body cannot assimilate. The only ecdy product I've ever used is E-BOL, but I can say by paying strict attention to my digestive tract, fecal and urinary indicators and subsequent strength and lean mass gains that the extra protein I ingest was put to good use while it was not otherwise.

[BiggJohn]

but I can say by paying strict attention to my digestive tract, fecal and urinary indicators

I don't even want to know.

[kingkonggyi]

Ecdysterone + Testostrogrow REVIEW

I already finished my first cycle of Ecdysterone + Testostrogrow.

Strength -- 8/10

I just love the strength gains i get from it. Starting from the 4th day, i started lifting more with less tireness.

Mass -- 10/10

I gained 7.7 lbs after 10 days, with lots of water + fat. After 10 days, i tried not to take in salt, sodium and fatty food, lost some fat back without losing weight. Today, i am 12 lbs heavier than bfore i used this stack. Excluding about 2.5 to 3 lbs of fat i hav gained, i would say it is at least 9 lbs of muscles + water.

Muscle hardness -- 7 / 10

Yeah, i see the muscles looking and feeling harder.

Fat Reduction -- 4/10

Same as soreness,,, i cant tell if this help burn fat bcos of my poor diet though it is supposed to reduce fat while increasing lean mass.

Reduced Soreness -- 3/10

I dont really see any reduction in DOMs, it could be bcos i dont eat enough and dont hav enough sleep most of the time. But, based on just what i experience, i will give it a 3 out of 10.

Sleep --- 8/ 10

Actually i could give it 10 out of 10 if i am not very tired yet stilll hav deep sleep every day. But, as you guys know, i dont hav enough sleeping hrs, also hav to work 3 rotating shifts and work out almost everyday... so, i must be sleeping like a log bcos of exhaust.

appetite --- 8 / 10

well, though there has been lack of sleep, i can still eat often... can swallow pretty much anything. lol.

libido ? lol, it must be just bcos of Testostrogrow that i feel like a teenager.


Overall, i personally give it a 10, considering the price, dose, no side effects, and the effectiveness.

Note: I am a technician working for a pharmaceutical company ( GSK ), and not the rep of any supplement company. I do not recommend this supplement to anyone on here since i can not guarantee any muscle gains.

[cgilbraith8]

my diets pretty gd, i eat at least 4 meals a day, preotein carbs, fats etc... I've been training for about 2 years now with a guy who is very experienced so my reigem is pretty solid. I take protein shakes.. (USN,Prolab, Muscletech etc...) but never seem to gain muscle as fast as I'd like. Do you think Ecsdysterone would help or not? If I was to buy it would 40mg per 3 servings of Maximuscle's Promax Extreme be enough or would you recomend getting something like Optiumum 100% Whey and then gettin some Ecsdysterone tabs to go with it?

There have been many studies out there about beta ecdysterone. I found several studies conducted in the UK and most say to take 5-10 mg for each kg you weigh. I am currently taking 850 mg a day. I went from leg pressing 850 max to 995 in about a month. It also really defined my arms, back, and legs. With that much intake of beta edysterone you will def need to consume a lot of protein. I was taking 50 grams of protein with each meal.

[neil1155]

Hi Guys,
I no you should eat more protein but does it matter how much carbs you have on the beta ecdysterone?
Thanks Guys.

[native405pride]

Thus stuff is what's in spinach!! It worked for Popeye!! Food is anabolic but nuthin is more anabolic than insulin!

[Mixelflick]

Ecdy is a controversial supplement, yet research continues to yield promising results. A considerable body of research done in the former Soviet Union, Hungary (University of Szeged), Germany and the United States (Rutgers) exists:

ECDYSTERONE GIVES RATS MEGA-MUSCLES (Hungary)
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysterone.html

REPAIRS CARTILAGE IN JOINTS (Germany)
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronejoints.html

LOW DOSES PROMOTE MUSCLE BUILDING (Germany)
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteronemetabolism.html

YOUNGER SKIN/MORE MUSCLE (Germany)
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroidsyoungerskin.html

MITIGATES FAT GAIN (Rutgers/U.S.)
http://www.ergo-log.com/ecdysteroids.html

Important to point out that "Ecdysterone" isn't ONE supplement. To date, there have been 467 ecdysteroids identified (1). Although you can source Ecdy from a variety of plant species, I feel strongly that the correct source genus is Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract. Thermolife and a scant few others have access to the genuine article, and it makes all the difference IMO. One of the best papers on the subject is, "Practical uses for ecdysteroids in mammals including humans: an update..."(2)

(1) http://ecdybase.org/
(2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC524647/

What is unfortunate is the way Ecdy has been used/mis-used in the West. It is an adaptogen and as such, an environmental stressor of some sort is needed for the full effect to be realized. It logically follows that if an adaptogen has no stress to adapt to, results won't be optimal. However, used in the proper context I've found that RCE/certain analogs (i.e. 25-R/Laxogenin) are quite effective.

This class of nutraceutical holds vast potential not only for performance enhancement, but general health as well. Any cursory review of its pharmacological benefits on vertebrates will illustrate this. It's my belief that in time, "Ecdy" will be found to be as beneficial as fish oil for human health.