Al Majlis

[Amu]

Just a question , do you smack yourself every year ?
there is this speacial day where shiites in Iraq hit themselves and make themselves bleed etc . I think its called muhrab or something

It is not permitted to make fun of other Muslims, especially when what they do is recognized by Sunni scholars as within the bounds of Islam.

The Prophet (pbuh): The believer is he from who's hands and tongue each believer is safe, and the mu'min is he from who's hands and tongue all of Humanity is safe.

By posting such remarks, you are smacking yourself with a trait that the Prophet characterized of the disbelievers

[osamaelias]

It is not permitted to make fun of other Muslims, especially when what they do is recognized by Sunni scholars as within the bounds of Islam.

The Prophet (pbuh): The believer is he from who's hands and tongue each believer is safe, and the mu'min is he from who's hands and tongue all of Humanity is safe.

By posting such remarks, you are smacking yourself with a trait that the Prophet characterized of the disbelievers

Did not make fun of him?

[Amu]

Did not make fun of him?

I'm just letting you know of the hadith

If you were sincerely asking Trance questions and were not in any way trying to insult his beliefs, I apologize.

[TranceNRG]

Are there hadiths regarding such a practice?

Why not just mourn normally?

How do people mourn "normally"?

An act, for which there is no restriction of any kind by Islamic Laws, becomes permissible
Harming oneself is prohibited. Therefore, hitting one's chest without causing harm is permitted.

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answe...i/en/chap9.php

[Amu]

How do people mourn "normally"?

Weeping?

An act, for which there is no restriction of any kind by Islamic Laws, becomes permissible
Harming oneself is prohibited. Therefore, hitting one's chest without causing harm is permitted.

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answe...i/en/chap9.php

Alright

[osamaelias]

How do people mourn "normally"?

An act, for which there is no restriction of any kind by Islamic Laws, becomes permissible
Harming oneself is prohibited. Therefore, hitting one's chest without causing harm is permitted.

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answe...i/en/chap9.php

No offence man but i dont think this is just hurting yourself. This is killing yourself.

[TranceNRG]

No offence man but i dont think this is just hurting yourself. This is killing yourself.

Is it?
Do you know what is Hijama?
Do you consider that to be killing yourself too?
What did the Prophet (pbuh) say about Hijama?

[osamaelias]

Is it?
Do you know what is Hijama?
Do you consider that to be killing yourself too?
What did the Prophet (pbuh) say about Hijama?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijama
Yes i know what it is. But i dont think they have a head injury or pain here . They hit themselves for Hussien , but not Allah? or any other prophet . Hussien is dead , may allah be pleased with him. Hitting yourself doesnt mean you have great appreciation for him. There are many other ways to show it.

Mate just doesnt fit to the logical brain. I also , advice you to go on paltalk and go to sunni rooms and debate there. You will get nice answeres believe me

"Many of the male participants congregate together in public for ceremonial chest beating (matham) as a display of their devotion to Imam Husayn and in remembrance of his suffering. In some Shi'a societies, such as those in Bahrain, Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Iraq, some male participants inflict actual wounds upon themselves, using knives or razors swung upon chains [1]. This practice is permissible by major Usooli Ayatollah such as Muhammad Shirazi and Sistani, however some major scholars such as Khameini have banned it in Iran temporarily, while others such as Fadlallah deem it permanently impermissible. In general however, the act is controversial."

[TranceNRG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijama
Yes i know what it is. But i dont think they have a head injury or pain here . They hit themselves for Hussien , but not Allah? or any other prophet .

And why do you assume what shias do leads to injury and pain?
Both Hijama and this let out blood from the head area, and Hijama was/is highly recommended by the prophet (pbuh).

Mourning for a beloved friend of Allah and mourning for the beloved grandson of the prophet (pbuh) are the means to show love and respect for God and His prophet (pbuh).

The Messenger of Allah said: "Husain is from me and I am from Husain."

Sunni references:
(1) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v4, p172
(2) Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p772, Tradition #1361
(3) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p 177
(4) Amali, by Abu Nu'aym al-Isbahani, p 64
(5) al-Kuna wal Asmaa, by al-Dulabi, v1, p88
(6) al-Tabarani, v3, p21
(7) Adab by al-Bukhari, also al-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah, as quoted in:
(8) al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 3, p291
(9) Mishkat al-Masabih, by Khatib al-Tabrizi, English Version, Tdadition #6160

The Messenger of Allah said: "He who loves al-Hasan and al-Husain, loved me, and he who makes them angry has made me angry."

Sunni reference:
- Sunan Ibn Majah,
- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, from Abu Hurairah
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, as quited in:
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 3, p292

Usamah ibn Zayd narrated:

I went to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) one night about something I required and he came out with something (I did not know what) under his cloak. When I had finished telling him my business I asked him what he had under his cloak, and when he opened it I saw al-Hasan and al-Husayn on his hips. He then said, "These are my sons and my daughter's sons. O Allah, I love them, so I beseech Thee to love them and those who love them."

Sunni References:
- Sahih Tirmidhi, per:
- Mishkat al-Masabih, by Khatib al-Tabrizi, English Version, Tdadition #6156

More Traditions on Imam Husain (as)

Imam Husain (as)

Mate just doesnt fit to the logical brain. I also , advice you to go on paltalk and go to sunni rooms and debate there. You will get nice answeres believe me

If I wanted to debate these issues I would.
I am past the point of debating prior to choosing.
Thank you for the offer, but my heart has made a decision and I see no reason or need at the moment to be concerned about my choice.
God knows best and He is the best judge.


Moreover, many things do not "fit to the logical brain", go ask the Islam-haters about Islam and see whether the logic of Islam fits in their brains or not.
(not comparing you to them, just a friendly reminder about how one's pre-determined mindset may influence their logic.)



Lastly, if you ever have any questions do not hesitate to ask.

[osamaelias]

And why do you assume what shias do leads to injury and pain?
Both Hijama and this let out blood from the head area, and Hijama was/is highly recommended by the prophet (pbuh).

No i stated that Hijama is used when you have pain in a area(Hijama is normally performed on the head, but can be performed anywhere on the body, often at the site of an ache or pain in order to ease or alleviate it.)
They dont have pain. They are causing damage to ones self. Which is prohibited in Islam.

Mourning for a beloved friend of Allah and mourning for the beloved grandson of the prophet (pbuh) are the means to show love and respect for God and His prophet (pbuh).

I thought its the mourning of Hussien and Hassan etc. Nothing to do with the prophet ? But yes.

[TranceNRG]

No i stated that Hijama is used when you have pain in a area(Hijama is normally performed on the head, but can be performed anywhere on the body, often at the site of an ache or pain in order to ease or alleviate it.)

Hijama isn't performed only when there's pain.
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...7&cate=0&t=rss

They dont have pain. They are causing damage to ones self. Which is prohibited in Islam.

It causes temporary damage, which soon is healed.
Causing permanent harm to oneself is fobidden in Islam.

When you go to the gym, you tear your muscles and you inflict pain upon yourself, then when you rest your muscles heal and get stronger/bigger.

I thought its the mourning of Hussien and Hassan etc. Nothing to do with the prophet ? But yes.

We mourn for the beloved grandson of the prophet (pbuh).
We love God and prophet Mohammad (pbuh), and we love who they love and command us to love. Further, we dissociate ourselves from the enemies of God, the enemies of prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and the enemies of those who God and prophet Mohammad (pbuh) love.


"Say (O Muhammad): I ask you of no reward except the muwaddah (love) of my near relatives. Whosoever earns good, We give him more of good therein. Surely Allah is forgiving, grateful." (42:23)

"Say: Whatever reward I might have asked of you is for your good. My reward is the affair of Allah only." (34:47)

[osamaelias]

Hijama isn't performed only when there's pain.
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...7&cate=0&t=rss

The link you posted states
"This is often used as a therapeutic measure to ease pain and also allows toxins and
poisons to be sucked out."
"while fasting, traveling, in a state of ihram, when in pain, and so forth. "

It causes temporary damage, which soon is healed.
Causing permanent harm to oneself is fobidden in Islam.

When you go to the gym, you tear your muscles and you inflict pain upon yourself, then when you rest your muscles heal and get stronger/bigger.

Man theres a huge differnece between progessing your body to become healithier and slapping your head with a knife then healing it. When you gym you have a great advantage, thus increasing your ability to live longer , healthier life. But when you slap your head with a knife you get a unwelcomed scar. Or may cause damage to the brain if excessive.

We mourn for the beloved grandson of the prophet (pbuh).
We love God and prophet Mohammad (pbuh), and we love who they love and command us to love. Further, we dissociate ourselves from the enemies of God, the enemies of prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and the enemies of those who God and prophet Mohammad (pbuh) love.


"Say (O Muhammad): I ask you of no reward except the muwaddah (love) of my near relatives. Whosoever earns good, We give him more of good therein. Surely Allah is forgiving, grateful." (42:23)

"Say: Whatever reward I might have asked of you is for your good. My reward is the affair of Allah only." (34:47)

But you understand they are gone , and their seats in paradise are near sure they will get. Showing your appreciation to them by hitting yourself wont do you much. You know some shiite militas when fighting dont say Allahu Akbar , they say "Ali is with you". To be honest thats near saying Ali is the son of god.

[TranceNRG]

The link you posted states
"This is often used as a therapeutic measure to ease pain and also allows toxins and
poisons to be sucked out."
"while fasting, traveling, in a state of ihram, when in pain, and so forth. "

Exactly...
It clearly separates the state of pain from other states, to show that not only it is done when one is pain, it is also done in other states when one is not in pain.

Man theres a huge differnece between progessing your body to become healithier and slapping your head with a knife then healing it. When you gym you have a great advantage, thus increasing your ability to live longer , healthier life. But when you slap your head with a knife you get a unwelcomed scar. Or may cause damage to the brain if excessive.

Incorrect.
Hijama was used not only for treatment but also for prophylaxis against diseases.
Look into the topic of Hijama more, look at pictures and the temporary post-procedure effect on the skin.

But you understand they are gone , and their seats in paradise are near sure they will get. Showing your appreciation to them by hitting yourself wont do you much. You know some shiite militas when fighting dont say Allahu Akbar , they say "Ali is with you". To be honest thats near saying Ali is the son of god.

They are not "gone". Do not consider martyrs as dead, they are living and God is providing provisions for them. Moreover, everything we do in this world is reported to our beloved prophet (pbuh) in Barzakh. Our prophet (pbuh) sees and hears about everything we do. Therefore, to please him (pbuh) we mourn the death of his beloved family. (And keep in mind, only what pleases God, pleases our prophet (pbuh))

Yes, "Ya Ali Madad" is a common saying. It is a form of tawassul, which is accepted by both sunnis and shias.

The propriety of saying "Ya Ali Madad" depends entirely upon the intention of the person who says it.
If the help of Hadhrat Ali (A.S.) or any of the other ma'sumeen is sought as an intercessor and a 'waseelah' envisaged by the Holy Qur'an in Ayah 35 of Suratul Maidah then not only there can be no objection but it would be the right and proper thing to do. But if help is sought in the belief that the person whose help sought shares with Allah the right to create, sustain and protect then the call for help might amount to 'shirk'. The Ayah referred to above reads as follows:
"O you who believe ! Be mindful of your Duty to Allah, and seek a way to approach him ((wab tagoo ilayhi waseelah).................."

[Amu]

Excellent article:

Levels of Submission

The most basic condition of soundness of heart is to be submissive to the truth. Submission has three levels: submission of the body, submission of the intellect, and submission of the heart.



When two opponents face each other in combat and one of them feels likely to lose, he may surrender or submit to the other. In such a surrender, normally the losing opponent puts his hands up as a sign of defeat and desists from fighting, coming under the sway of his opponent. That is, he acts in accordance with whatever command his opponent gives.



In this type of submission, the body submits, but the mind and reason do not; instead, they are constantly thinking of rebellion, incessantly contemplating how to get a chance to overcome the opponent once again. This is the state of his reason and thought, and as for his feelings and emotions, they too continuously denounce the enemy. This type of submission - that of the body - is the most that can be achieved by force.


The next level of submission is the submission of the intellect and reason. The power that can make the intellect submit is that of logic and reasoning. Here, physical force can't accomplish anything. It is absolutely impossible through physical force to make a student understand that the sum of the angles of a triangle is equal to two right angles. Mathematical propositions must be proven through reasoning and not through any other way. The intellect is forced to submit through thinking and reasoning. If sufficient proof exists and is presented to the intellect and the intellect understands it, it submits, even if all the powers of the world say not to submit.



It is well-known that when Galileo was tortured for his belief in the movement of the earth and centrality of the sun in the solar system, out of fear that they would burn him alive, he expressed repentance of his scientific view; in that condition, he wrote something on the ground. It is said that he wrote, "Galileo's repentance will not make the Earth stand still."


Force can compel a person to recant his or her words, but the human intellect does not submit except when faced with logic and reasoning.



"Say, 'Produce your evidence, should you be truthful.'" (27:64)


The third level of submission is the submission of the heart. The reality of faith is submission of the heart; submission of the tongue or submission of the thought and intellect, if not coupled with submission of the heart, is not faith. Submission of the heart is equal to submission of the entire existence of a person and the negation of every type of obstinacy and rejection.


It is possible that someone may submit to an idea as far as the intellect and mind are concerned, but not the spirit. When a person shows obstinacy out of prejudice or refuses to yield to the truth because of personal interests, his or her mind and intellect have submitted, but the spirit is rebellious and lacks submission, and for this very reason lacks faith, since the reality of faith is the submission of the heart and soul.

God says in the Qur'ān:


"O you who have faith! Enter into submission, all together, and do not follow in Satan's steps." (2:208)


That is, your soul should not be at war with your intellect; your feelings should not be at war with your perceptions.


The story of Shaītān (Satan) that has come in the Qurān is an example of unbelief of the heart, even though the intellect has submitted. Shaītān recognized God, believed in the Day of Judgement, completely recognized the Prophets and their legatees and admitted their position; at the same time, God calls him an unbeliever and says of him:



"And he was of the unbelievers." (2:34)


The evidence that, in the view of the Qurān, Shaītān recognized God is that the Qurān explicitly says that he confessed that He is the Creator. Addressing God, he said:




"You created me from fire, and You created him from clay." (7:12)

And the evidence that he believed in the Day of Judgement is that he said:

"Grant me reprieve until the day they are resurrected." (7:14)


And the evidence that he recognized the Prophets and infallibles is that he said:


"By Your might, I shall lead them all astray, except Your purified servants among them." (38:82-83)


The meaning of the purified servants, who are pure not just in their actions, but whose entire existence is purified and free of all except God, are the friends of God and the infallibles; Shaīťān recognized them, too, and believed in their infallibility.


The Qurān, while describing Shaīān as knowing all these things, calls him an unbeliever. Thus, we come to know that mere recognition and knowledge, or the submission of the intellect and mind, is not sufficient for a person to be considered a believer. Something else is necessary as well.


In the Qurān's logic, why has Shaītān been regarded as an unbeliever in spite of all his knowledge?

Obviously, it is because while his perception accepted reality, his feelings rose to battle it; his heart rose against his intellect; he showed arrogance and refused to accept the truth: he lacked submission of the heart.

[TranceNRG]

Excellent article:

x2

Shahid Ayatullah Murtadha Mutahhari is a great Islamic scholar.

[Amu]

And if words are confirmed by actions, would you hate them?

Bump

[TranceNRG]

Bump

Sorry I didn't notice this post...

Yes, then you must dissociate yourself from them.

[Amu]

Any Muslims into the campaign? Who are you cheering for?

[osamaelias]

Exactly...
It clearly separates the state of pain from other states, to show that not only it is done when one is pain, it is also done in other states when one is not in pain.

What other states?

Incorrect.
Hijama was used not only for treatment but also for prophylaxis against diseases.
Look into the topic of Hijama more, look at pictures and the temporary post-procedure effect on the skin.

I have seen it dont worry I know what it used it for. Hijima is preformed with a few hits to release blood , not more then 30+ shots on the same place to show your appreciation for Mohammed(pbuh) doesnt work like that

Man look at what your saying here , basically hijima is used to cure a disease , help with toxins and any other form of pain. When they people hit themselves most have no pain , no toxin or any other form of damage.

They are not "gone". Do not consider martyrs as dead, they are living and God is providing provisions for them. .

Thats for every martyr btw

Moreover, everything we do in this world is reported to our beloved prophet (pbuh) in Barzakh. Our prophet (pbuh) sees and hears about everything we do.

Who is we , as people or indivudals , and source if you can please .
And friend i dont think you know what barzakh is.
"In Islamic eschatology, Barzakh (Arabic: برزخ) is the intermediate state in which the soul of the deceased is transferred across the boundaries of the mortal realm into the spirit world and into a kind of "cold sleep" where the soul will rest until the Qiyamah (Judgement Day). The term appears in the Qur'an."

Therefore, to please him (pbuh) we mourn the death of his beloved family. (And keep in mind, only what pleases God, pleases our prophet (pbuh)

Why do you only mourn his family? Why not example Yahya(pbuh) who had his head removed. You know big difference from a prophet to blood related prophet family

[BigTruckGuy3500]

Any Muslims into the campaign? Who are you cheering for?

Ron Paul if he gets the nomination. If not then either Obama or Clinton.

[osamaelias]

Any Muslims into the campaign? Who are you cheering for?

No they are all bums that want presidency. Then after that they will do nothing lol.

[TranceNRG]

What other states?

Fasting, state of Ihram, Travelling and so forth...
"When is pain" is just another state in which hijama was done, not the only state.

I have seen it dont worry I know what it used it for.

Man look at what your saying here , basically hijima is used to cure a disease , help with toxins and any other form of pain. When they people hit themselves most have no pain , no toxin or any other form of damage.

False.
Hijama was done frequently to prevent diseases. This entails that it was done when an individual was healthy as well, in order to remain healthy.

Thats for every martyr btw

Correct.

Who is we , as people or indivudals , and source if you can please .

All muslims...

The Prophet in Barzakh

It is established that our Prophet possesses an isthmus-life that is greater and more perfect than that of any other, of which he himself told us. It is equally established that he is intimately connected with the Community, fully cognizant of their states, seeing their actions, hearing their speech, replying to their greetings, and the hadiths to that effect are numerous.

Why do you only mourn his family? Why not example Yahya(pbuh) who had his head removed. You know big difference from a prophet to blood related prophet family

We must love all prophets of God and respect them.
However, God commands us directly in the Qur'an to love the near relatives of the prophet (pbuh).


"Say (O Muhammad): I ask you of no reward except the muwaddah (love) of my near relatives. Whosoever earns good, We give him more of good therein. Surely Allah is forgiving, grateful." (42:23)

"Say: Whatever reward I might have asked of you is for your good. My reward is the affair of Allah only." (34:47)

[osamaelias]

Fasting, state of Ihram, Travelling and so forth...
"When is pain" is just another state in which hijama was done, not the only state.
False.
Hijama was done frequently to prevent diseases. This entails that it was done when an individual was healthy as well, in order to remain healthy.

Friend most people , that have a problem with their body/toxic/etc , dont resort to hijima to heal it.It is not hard to go the hospital then resort to cutting yourself and using a tube/whatever to clean it.And they do this every year, in the same place usually (head) , this isnt healthy? over the years you live , if you preform muharam , you will get alot of scars, and if your a extreme believer , brain damage. If your saying hijiama is what there doing here , then your are wrong. Hijima wasnt done in the same place for 10+ times. But in Muharam they hit themselves 20-30+ times in the same place.And it didnt cause so much damage as what these people are doing here. Yes it is said by the prophet. But not everything the prophet stated was for us. That is why you have salafists today etc. Who believe/live/do exactly what the prophet did. (For example the beheadings , they were used in prophets time but not intended for today.)

What they are doing here , is not hijima and they know it. Its just because you have more then the average knowledge you use that for their actions.
If you ask them what there doing , they say were mourning Hussien , you ask why? they say god will be pleased with us. (that was my question to you in beginning) they dont say hijima , because they are healthy , usually no problem with them. They just thinking hitting yourself is deed-bringer , but when you involved hijima thats 2 different things friend.

"Say (O Muhammad): I ask you of no reward except the muwaddah (love) of my near relatives. Whosoever earns good, We give him more of good therein. Surely Allah is forgiving, grateful." (42:23)

"Say: Whatever reward I might have asked of you is for your good. My reward is the affair of Allah only." (34:47)

Then why dont you mourn them too? Why just Hussien :S?

[Amu]

No they are all bums that want presidency. Then after that they will do nothing lol.

I agree many will not fulfill promises. However, in general, most candidates do follow through with their general trends.

[TranceNRG]

Friend most people , that have a problem with their body/toxic/etc , dont resort to hijima to heal it.It is not hard to go the hospital then resort to cutting yourself and using a tube/whatever to clean it.

Read the prophetic traditions and hadiths about Hijama.
Here's one...
Rasulullah (pbuh) said, "Jibraaeel repeatedly emphasised upon me to resort to cupping to the extent that I feared that cupping will be made compulsory." (Jamal Wasaail p. 179).

Google it for many more...

And they do this every year, in the same place usually (head) , this isnt healthy?

You're a doctor?
Hijama is often done on the head as well. And since it's frequently done and since the size of human head is limited, often same places are used for cupping on the head.
Moreover, the practice of Hijama was occured much more frequently than once per year.

over the years you live , if you preform muharam , you will get alot of scars, and if your a extreme believer , brain damage.

You're a doctor?
Or are you just stating your opinions based on assumptions, pictures and your pre-determined mindset?

If your saying hijiama is what there doing here , then your are wrong. Hijima wasnt done in the same place for 10+ times.

No, that is not Hijama.
Firstly, Hijama was done much more frequently.
Secondly, This act and Hijama both lead to "blood letting".

But in Muharam they hit themselves 20 -30+ times in the same place.

Interestingly, nothing happens and they come back each year to do it again.

And it didnt cause so much damage as what these people are doing here.

Why do you assume this causes so much damage?
What do you base your opinion on?
Pictures?
Pre-determined mindset?

Yes it is said by the prophet. But not everything the prophet stated was for us.

And are you declaring that what the prophet (pbuh) recommended so much, is not meant for us? Based on what do you form such opinion?
I didn't notice your opinion on the sunnipath answers.

That is why you have salafists today etc. Who believe/live/do exactly what the prophet did. (For example the beheadings , they were used in prophets time but not intended for today.)

Except Hijama is much different.
And your opinion about salafis is false.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=3270

What they are doing here , is not hijima and they know it.

Correct.

Its just because you have more then the average knowledge you use that for their actions.

What is not forbidden by God is permitted.

If you ask them what there doing , they say were mourning Hussien , you ask why? they say god will be pleased with us.

What they do is not wajib.
They could mourn in different ways.
However, mourning for Imam Hussein (as), with the right intention, is in fact very meritorious, and it does in fact please God immensely.

(that was my question to you in beginning) they dont say hijima , because they are healthy , usually no problem with them. They just thinking hitting yourself is deed-bringer , but when you involved hijima thats 2 different things friend.

Yes, they are two different things.
However, when you point out to health issues, and inflicting pain and damage upon oneself and you state your opinion against such permitted act, the example of hijama could easily be used as a counter-argument.

Then why dont you mourn them too? Why just Hussien :S?

We mourn the death of every single member of the ahlul bayt.
However, the tragedy of Imam Husain (as) is much harder to bear.
Please, read about what happened to Imam Husain (as) and his beloved family and companions, and you may understand the depth of such tragedy.
And always keep in mind, that Imam Husain (as) was the beloved grandson of the prophet (pbuh).

No other members of the ahlul bayt (the beloved and chosen family members of the prophet (pbuh)) were killed in the way that Imam Husain (as) and his companions were killed.

[osamaelias]

Read the prophetic traditions and hadiths about Hijama.
Here's one...
Rasulullah (pbuh) said, "Jibraaeel repeatedly emphasised upon me to resort to cupping to the extent that I feared that cupping will be made compulsory." (Jamal Wasaail p. 179).

Man i know cupping is allowed , your repeating yourself.

You're a doctor?
Hijama is often done on the head as well. And since it's frequently done and since the size of human head is limited, often same places are used for cupping on the head.
Moreover, the practice of Hijama was occured much more frequently than once per year..

Correct , but it was used if you were in any kind of pain or to prevent pain. Im repeating myself.
"Indication and Diseases that respond to Cupping
The cupping method has the function of warming and promoting the flow of energy in the blood thus dispelling cold, dampness, toxins and winds. It also diminishes swellings and pains.
The following problems respond very well to Cupping :-


Disease caused by dampness, such as low back pain, lumbago, sciatica, pain in the arms and shoulders, pain in the legs and muscular parts of the body, stomachache, vomiting, headache, migraine, sprains, insomnia, etc. "

You're a doctor?
Or are you just stating your opinions based on assumptions, pictures and your pre-determined mindset?.

You see the picture i showed above , look at his head friend. All damaged up.
Dont tell me that wont leave a scar.


They hit themselves where ever the razor goes. Doesnt bother them. More blood too them means better sins (which in my opinion is wrong)
"Cupping is a method of treatment in which a jar is attached to the skin surface to cause local congestion through the negative pressure created. An incision lightly made to allow the congested blood to ooze out. This type of treatment has been practised by the chinese and the Arabs for thousand of years.Cupping is a therapeutic process of removing this unclean blood from the body . It is a form of medical treatment which has been recommended by Shari?h. "


Compare the hole , and compare the damage done to the head on muhram.

No, that is not Hijama.
Firstly, Hijama was done much more frequently.
Secondly, This act and Hijama both lead to "blood letting"..

Again i will repeat myself , hijiama was used for health purposes etc. Not as a sign of worship.

Interestingly, nothing happens and they come back each year to do it again.Why do you assume this causes so much damage?
What do you base your opinion on?
Pictures?
Pre-determined mindset?.

You telling me smacking your head with a razor (in accessive force) wont do damage over the years? And you say im no doctor , i dont think i need to be a doctor to see what happens lol.

And your telling me it heals ? i dont think you can heal fully if you bleed from a place. There will always be atleast a little scar there
Here you go

look at his beautiful back. Dont tell me thats not a scar.

And are you declaring that what the prophet (pbuh) recommended so much, is not meant for us? Based on what do you form such opinion?
I didn't notice your opinion on the sunnipath answers.
Except Hijama is much different.
And your opinion about salafis is false.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=3270.

Wow , do you know what you just provided lol? Did you read it friend?
3) Most Muslim terrorists are Salafis/Wahabis, which is a consequence of their deviance. This is not a coincidence, as one who leaves qualified scholarship will perish by their own ignorance.

And if you remeber what i stated , i stated they beheaded , and it was usually done by salafists . Which are people that try to follow the prophets ways and usually disgrad other forms that people stated about him.

What they do is not wajib.
They could mourn in different ways.
However, mourning for Imam Hussein (as), with the right intention, is in fact very meritorious, and it does in fact please God immensely..

Explain how hitting yourself , pleases God. When God himself said not to damage to your body. But then you say it heals , like bodybuilding. And thus i repeat myself , Bodybuilding is healthy and helps you live healthier/ longer life etc.You cannot do damage to your body unless your a baboon and squats like a idiot etc. Muharam , you gain nothing from. Hitting yourself is not allowded , just like mourning and hitting yourself isnt allowed

We mourn the death of every single member of the ahlul bayt.
However, the tragedy of Imam Husain (as) is much harder to bear.
Please, read about what happened to Imam Husain (as) and his beloved family and companions, and you may understand the depth of such tragedy.
And always keep in mind, that Imam Husain (as) was the beloved grandson of the prophet (pbuh).

No other members of the ahlul bayt (the beloved and chosen family members of the prophet (pbuh)) were killed in the way that Imam Husain (as) and his companions were killed.

Hussien is a martyr, understand he was a human , just important then others.
He is pleased he died as a martyr . "Allah asks his martyr in heaven , what would they do again if they went to earth, they say we wish we can die a martyr another time".

[TranceNRG]

Man i know cupping is allowed , your repeating yourself.

It's more than just allowed, it is highly recommended.

Correct , but it was used if you were in any kind of pain or to prevent pain. Im repeating myself.

To prevent pain and illness entails a healthy person doing it.
So, to simplify it, a healthy person would do hijama in order to remain healthy.

"Indication and Diseases that respond to Cupping
The cupping method has the function of warming and promoting the flow of energy in the blood thus dispelling cold, dampness, toxins and winds. It also diminishes swellings and pains.
The following problems respond very well to Cupping :-


Disease caused by dampness, such as low back pain, lumbago, sciatica, pain in the arms and shoulders, pain in the legs and muscular parts of the body, stomachache, vomiting, headache, migraine, sprains, insomnia, etc. "

Correct
So, Hijama (Letting blood out of your body) is beneficial in so many ways.

You see the picture i showed above , look at his head friend. All damaged up.
Dont tell me that wont leave a scar.

They hit themselves where ever the razor goes. Doesnt bother them. More blood too them means better sins (which in my opinion is wrong)
"Cupping is a method of treatment in which a jar is attached to the skin surface to cause local congestion through the negative pressure created. An incision lightly made to allow the congested blood to ooze out. This type of treatment has been practised by the chinese and the Arabs for thousand of years.Cupping is a therapeutic process of removing this unclean blood from the body . It is a form of medical treatment which has been recommended by Shari?h. " .

You've seen pictures from post-procedure of hijama. The skin seems all damaged. But the "damage" is temporary. Soon it'll be healed.

The people who do choose to mourn that way, don't just shove a razor in their skulls. They know very well how and where to hit. And though your opinion must be respected, it is not an Islamic ruling nor is it based on one.

Compare the hole , and compare the damage done to the head on muhram.

The "damage" is temporary and soon it'll be healed.

Again i will repeat myself , hijiama was used for health purposes etc. Not as a sign of worship.

Right, I agree.
However, the underlying effect of letting blood out of the body is the same.
So, one cannot use "the damage" or "the blood letting" as the foundation to declare a negative opinion against what is permitted by God.

You telling me smacking your head with a razor (in accessive force) wont do damage over the years? And you say im no doctor , i dont think i need to be a doctor to see what happens lol.

As I said, they have done it for years and they continue to come back and do it for many more years.

And in contrast to your statement, they do not shove or smack their heads with razors, they know how and where to hit their heads.

Wow , do you know what you just provided lol? Did you read it friend?
3) Most Muslim terrorists are Salafis/Wahabis, which is a consequence of their deviance. This is not a coincidence, as one who leaves qualified scholarship will perish by their own ignorance.

And if you remeber what i stated , i stated they beheaded , and it was usually done by salafists . Which are people that try to follow the prophets ways and usually disgrad other forms that people stated about him.

I won't speak about the salafis, the links are sufficient, and if you cannot see the difference on this issue, I won't be able to help you see it.

Explain how hitting yourself , pleases God. When God himself said not to damage to your body. But then you say it heals , like bodybuilding. And thus i repeat myself , Bodybuilding is healthy and helps you live healthier/ longer life etc.You cannot do damage to your body unless your a baboon and squats like a idiot etc. Muharam , you gain nothing from. Hitting yourself is not allowded , just like mourning and hitting yourself isnt allowed

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answe...i/en/chap9.php

God has forbidden causing permanent damage.

Moreover, your statement that by mourning for husain (as) we gain nothing, demonstrates your lack of knowledge about the ahlul bayt, about loving the friends of God and family of the prophet (pbuh) and about spiritual benefits of each deed that are rewarded in the hereafter.

Your definition of benefit is limited to this physical world, which in turn doesn't help you see the immense spiritual gains which are for the hereafter.


Lastly, hitting yourself is allowed.
What is not forbidden is permitted.
So, please read the link I posted, so perhaps you could realize that your personal opinion is baseless.

Hussien is a martyr, understand he was a human , just important then others.
He is pleased he died as a martyr . "Allah asks his martyr in heaven , what would they do again if they went to earth, they say we wish we can die a martyr another time".

and?

Imam Husain (as) isn't just like any other human, in the same sense that our prophet (pbuh) wasn't just like any other human.

God provided them with divine gifts of knowledge and purification and chose them as guides for the masses.

[osamaelias]

You've seen pictures from post-procedure of hijama. The skin seems all damaged. But the "damage" is temporary. Soon it'll be healed.

It heals , that doesnt mean it will not leave a scar.

The "damage" is temporary and soon it'll be healed.

Friend im from Iraq , you think i dont know what the Shiites do to themselves.
It does not heal , i have seen it being done infront of me. It leaves scars all of the back (when they use steel chain) , and scars on the head. They know it hurts , but they think its for the best.

Here are more pictures , please dont tell me this doesnt scar. Because honestly that will just sound weird.

As I said, they have done it for years and they continue to come back and do it for many more years.

And in contrast to your statement, they do not shove or smack their heads with razors, they know how and where to hit their heads.

I won't speak about the salafis, the links are sufficient, and if you cannot see the difference on this issue, I won't be able to help you see it.

Friend , do you think i dont know what a salafist is? Ive read what ever you have posted , and showed you , that you are wrong. Please read it again.

Btw , may i ask why you ignored many points i notifited in the other post? You stated i dont go pictures ex. But i answered most your questions

Moreover, your statement that by mourning for husain (as) we gain nothing, demonstrates your lack of knowledge about the ahlul bayt, about loving the friends of God and family of the prophet (pbuh) and about spiritual benefits of each deed that are rewarded in the hereafter.

Your definition of benefit is limited to this physical world, which in turn doesn't help you see the immense spiritual gains which are for the hereafter..

We believe in Ahlul Bayt , believe me . We also believe in the companions and the followers of the prophet. Yes they had problems , but that comes with every human. We try to ignore that and see what they did in life. But you on the other hand took it serious and ignored the fact of their help to our religion.

Lastly, hitting yourself is allowed.
What is not forbidden is permitted.
So, please read the link I posted, so perhaps you could realize that your personal opinion is baseless..

So i can smack myself and get deeds? Id rather say Allah is Great 100 times or read the surat al Kursee , and be protected from hell fire .

and?

Imam Husain (as) isn't just like any other human, in the same sense that our prophet (pbuh) wasn't just like any other human.

God provided them with divine gifts of knowledge and purification and chose them as guides for the masses.

What divine gifts? He was a strong believer , a strong muslim , a powerful man and a great contribution to Islam. He is a human, and the follower of the prophet. Exactly like us.

[osamaelias]

Here are more pictures. You may ask how would i know this will scar. I tell you logically lol. But i also ask how do you know that it wont scar up. So yes permanet damage.

[Amu]

Here are more pictures. You may ask how would i know this will scar. I tell you logically lol. But i also ask how do you know that it wont scar up. So yes permanet damage.

Please watch the content of what you post here. Al Majlis is a place where believers gather to discuss issues in a dignified manner.

For guidelines see:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...83&postcount=5