Don't sell yourself short. If you did something and it was a change... that is proof!
I did the weight loss with very low carbs and my measurements went down considerably. When i did it with carb loading I held onto some more size.
To me... that is proof.
Edit... There are many ways to skin a cat. there is no right or wrong. What you feel is best for "you" is best. I don't in no whey say my whey is the only whey. Just how I feel that it's best for me.
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Thread: Ketosis
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01-28-2013, 08:20 PM #61
Last edited by ntrllftr; 01-28-2013 at 08:27 PM.
Every day counts.
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I has a PHmuthaf'nD in Broscience!
ntrllftr > azstrengthlosscouchpotato
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01-28-2013, 08:29 PM #62
I never sell myself short I promise you that and it may be proof to me in my mind and the way I train others as well as yours may be proof to you in your mind, however when you said proof I just assumed you meant real proof as in double blind placebo, controlled, peer reviewed, scientific, documented, published "proof"...
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01-28-2013, 08:32 PM #63
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01-28-2013, 08:33 PM #64
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01-28-2013, 08:39 PM #65
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01-28-2013, 10:11 PM #66
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01-29-2013, 02:52 PM #67
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01-29-2013, 09:11 PM #68
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01-29-2013, 09:18 PM #69
Jedwab,
What macros were you following before you went VLCD? What was your fat macro number during your VLCD? Just curious, as your current carb intake level has no doubt eliminated any lipogenic adaptation..Last edited by KLMARB; 01-29-2013 at 09:24 PM.
I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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01-29-2013, 09:32 PM #70
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01-29-2013, 09:36 PM #71
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01-29-2013, 11:09 PM #72
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01-29-2013, 11:12 PM #73
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01-29-2013, 11:24 PM #74
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01-30-2013, 01:54 AM #75
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01-30-2013, 02:45 AM #76
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01-30-2013, 11:45 AM #77
Exactly. The reason I asked the question was to be able to explain the biochemistry of hepatic gluconeogenesis, using stored protein (muscle) as the substrate. I was trying to avoid a simplistic answer that didn't explain the science. (like yours. Not a bust on you, I like to have people understand "why" I say the things I do)
I don't recall anything I've said before now to be directly related to protein consumption. I think everyone knows that low protein is potentially catabolic. Since it's been brought up, I generally advocate moderate protein, around one-third of daily calories, or, one gram per lb. of LBM.Last edited by KLMARB; 01-30-2013 at 11:51 AM.
I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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01-30-2013, 12:09 PM #78
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01-30-2013, 03:55 PM #79
All this arguing about "my diet is better than your diet" is nonsense.
Skinny guys trying to get big or who have actually gotten big are typically going to do well on lower fat high carb, because they will likely have good insulin sensitivity.
Fat guys trying to get lean are going to do better on a low carb or keto diet, because they likely have poor insulin sensitivity... not one approach is going to fit all.. the dieter should determine the diet... as long as it has enough protein, and you can stick to it... it will work.
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01-30-2013, 03:55 PM #80
For the most part, yes. I've experienced some pretty nasty effects when I've let my protein percentage get too high. I'm cutting now, so I'm doing double cardio on most days, along with my three day split. I am eating only once per day (after my second cardio workout) but taking a fiber supplement after my morning training. My protein is probably higher, but still well less than 50% of total calories. This helps me when eating only once per day. I also eat considerably more carbs than would normally be considered lipolytic (ketogenic), but since I'm not lipogenically adapted, I slip back and forth between sucrosis and lipolysis daily. I always test positive for lipolysis in the afternoons. Since I only have to deal with hunger beginning in the late afternoons and supressed during my second workout, its a comfortable pattern for me. I also usually supercompensate one day of each weekend.
I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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01-30-2013, 04:09 PM #81
Am I reading it right... You are eating just once a day or one meal with carbs a day?
Before I reply. Have you ever in the past been in single bodyfat percentage and take measurements?
I'm wondering how you are going to gage progress (muscle mass wise) if you haven't in the past.
That is what I did trying different stratagies. Kept taking measurements at certain body weights.
I'm curious with what you are doing here also.. Aren't you more into powerlifting rather than bodybuilding. If so, is this some sort of experiment?
Thanks.Every day counts.
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I has a PHmuthaf'nD in Broscience!
ntrllftr > azstrengthlosscouchpotato
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01-30-2013, 04:26 PM #82
It's possible it's just harder. There is a difference between nitrogen retention and protien synthesis. Nitrogen retention is a simple matter of enoug. Protien, muscle synthesis is more complex it involves hormones like GH testosterone, insulin levels, ghrelin levels etc. you can have a positive nitrogen retention and not have protien synthesis, and you can have protien synthesis without eating. For example when people fast for 18 hours aka "lean gains" they actually have protien synthesis going on as a result of catecholamines being released. Like others have stated which diet you should do depends on whether your body is more primed to use fat as a fuel source (lipolytic) or burn carbs and store fat (lipogenic) this is why calories isn't all that matters. If you're mostly a carb burner a low calorie high carb won't burn much fat instead metabolism will slow down and you'll still gain fat. We know this from looking at animals that hibernate and store fat during the winter. Even if we starve them they will still gain fat at the expense of lean tissue. Yes this is an extreme example but the point is hormones trumps calories. The key is to reduce calories on the diet that's right for your metabolic profile
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01-30-2013, 04:32 PM #83
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01-30-2013, 05:55 PM #84
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01-30-2013, 06:04 PM #85
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01-30-2013, 08:31 PM #86
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01-31-2013, 02:49 AM #87
Thanks azstrengthcoach, I don't expect any muscle gains while I am trying to cut on Keto but after easter I will begin a Keto bulking phase ,just to see what happens. I hope after the Keto reduced calorie diet my body is primed for the Keto way of life so the transition to a more bulking keto diet should be smoother.
http://www.aussietrackandfieldforum.com.au/
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01-31-2013, 09:24 AM #88
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01-31-2013, 12:29 PM #89
One meal per day, with carbs. Unless you count my fiber supplement post workout as a meal. I haven't been in single digits (or very near) for over 25 years, during college, when I'd do my unadapted, (lipogenic semi-starvation) carb-based cut, and the last time being as a result of Ranger school (class 6-86). Sure, I track measurements, I've had a consistent (measured over years) muscle gain as well as fat loss. I'm still about 30lbs. away for sub-15%, I'll probably hit that by this Summer. I'll stabilize there for six months or so, then make a decision about competing. For me, since I'm balanced as far a anorexigenic/orexigenic hormones, it is a straight matter of thermodynamics (calories in/out). Many would look at me as overweight, which I am as far as bodybuilding standards, but I look at myself as 85% of the way to achieving my fat loss goals...It's merely a matter of self-discipline and time..
I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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01-31-2013, 01:21 PM #90
The issue is not to stay "keto" while bulking, but to follow a nutritional pattern that prevents lipogenic readaptation, or fat gain along with the muscle. Since sustained, adapted lipolysis (keto) has normalized your hormones (including insulin sensitivity) you'll be able to eat more carbs, which is optimal for muscle recruitment. A few concepts were discussed earlier in the thread, (post #68) check'em out...
Last edited by KLMARB; 01-31-2013 at 02:38 PM.
I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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