My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[MortalEngine]

Hi Jason, I'm coming to the end of week 3 tomorrow. I've been doing your programme on the last 3 weeks of my cut. I know you suggested modifying the routine for cutting, but I took the weights right back so that I could concentrate on form first. The weights are starting to get really challenging now, so I think it'll coincide nicely with the transition to bulking. During my cut I've been doing these workouts 3 days of the week and doing cardio on the other 3; whilst bulking I'm going to cut back on the cardio and was wondering how feasible it would be to do the ab workout coupled with calf exercises on the off days. I know you've said it's difficult for you to prescribe a calf routine for people, but my calves are pretty underdeveloped and could probably do with being intensely trained. Thanks again for a great routine.

[JasonDB]

okay i watched his box squatting vid and I guess i learn forward because my core strength sucks. Should i not be squatting? What can I do to improve my core strength in squats?

You improve the strength of any muscle train it harder and heavier. Do more heavy core work.

Hi Jason, I'm coming to the end of week 3 tomorrow. I've been doing your programme on the last 3 weeks of my cut. I know you suggested modifying the routine for cutting, but I took the weights right back so that I could concentrate on form first. The weights are starting to get really challenging now, so I think it'll coincide nicely with the transition to bulking. During my cut I've been doing these workouts 3 days of the week and doing cardio on the other 3; whilst bulking I'm going to cut back on the cardio and was wondering how feasible it would be to do the ab workout coupled with calf exercises on the off days. I know you've said it's difficult for you to prescribe a calf routine for people, but my calves are pretty underdeveloped and could probably do with being intensely trained. Thanks again for a great routine.

I think your plan is very reasonable and I would say give it a go.

[MortalEngine]

I think your plan is very reasonable and I would say give it a go.

Thanks Jason - much appreciated.

[PatheticLoser]

Hey Jason,
Just yesterday I started the program and I have to say I had lots of fun
It took me around 1 1/2 hours to complete it, probably it will take a bit less if I step up my work, but currently I am recovering from a piriformis injury, pinched my sciatica nerve and I am taking squats & deadlifts nice and slow.


I have a couple more questions for you.
I have a trap imbalance, and the general recommendation is to do heavy DB Shrugs. Should I through some extra sets or substitute BB with DBs?

I have also added some calf work and face pulls, cuz I feel I have no development whatsoever in those areas. Also I switched from hyperextensions to Good Mornings, I just feel it more on my lower back and plus I like doing it.
Have I messed up the program already???

One last thing, you recommend that for optimal hypertrophy we should train each body part 3x per week.
So adding a Chest exercise on Workout B (Incline DB press???) would be a good idea, or just too much?
(I know you have already mentioned that chest is indirectly stimulated through CGBP and Press).

Thankie

[JasonDB]

Hey Jason,
Just yesterday I started the program and I have to say I had lots of fun
It took me around 1 1/2 hours to complete it, probably it will take a bit less if I step up my work, but currently I am recovering from a piriformis injury, pinched my sciatica nerve and I am taking squats & deadlifts nice and slow.


I have a couple more questions for you.
I have a trap imbalance, and the general recommendation is to do heavy DB Shrugs. Should I through some extra sets or substitute BB with DBs?

I have also added some calf work and face pulls, cuz I feel I have no development whatsoever in those areas. Also I switched from hyperextensions to Good Mornings, I just feel it more on my lower back and plus I like doing it.
Have I messed up the program already???

One last thing, you recommend that for optimal hypertrophy we should train each body part 3x per week.
So adding a Chest exercise on Workout B (Incline DB press???) would be a good idea, or just too much?
(I know you have already mentioned that chest is indirectly stimulated through CGBP and Press).

Thankie

The only problem with "heavy dumbbell shrugs" is that a 300 lbs shrug is easily reached by the novice lifter who is training hard very quickly... so unless your gym has 150-200 lbs dummbells it can quickly become an issue.

No you've not messed up the program with those subtle changes.

As a novice you do not need weak point training do not add additional chest work in. The bench, cgbp & press done correctly should be stimulating all parts of your chest enough for rapid growth. The workout B is not indirect stimulation, both those lifts, done correctly, yield direct stimulation and hypertrophy of the pecs.

[PatheticLoser]

Nah, the heaviest DBs available are a couple of 100s lbs.
So sticking with BB Shrugs will it fix the imbalance, or should I add those DB Shrugs maybe on workout B specifically for this purpose?
Or is it just too early to worry about such issues???

[JasonDB]

Nah, the heaviest DBs available are a couple of 100s lbs.
So sticking with BB Shrugs will it fix the imbalance, or should I add those DB Shrugs maybe on workout B specifically for this purpose?
Or is it just too early to worry about such issues???

Use the barbells and see if it balances itself on its own. Novices shouldn't be worried about weak points if your entire body is still a weak point. You need to fix everything.

[PatheticLoser]

Ok noted!

Novices shouldn't be worried about weak points if your entire body is still a weak point. You need to fix everything.

So true, unfortunately

[hcoyle545]

Ok noted!



So true, unfortunately

strong user name.

[PatheticLoser]

strong user name.

Self-explanatory, lol

[-Lucifer]

Self-explanatory, lol

Better change it to something positive. Degrading and hating yourself will never get you anywhere. Srs.

[Spimman]

Hey Jason, first off I'd like to say thanks for the routine!

I've been on it for about two weeks now, and unfortunately am signed up to Planet Fitness. I've found that at the times I go, they don't really hassle me with the deadlift situation, but with only the pre-loaded barbells I'm obviously not getting enough weight. I was wondering if dumbbell deadlifts would be an acceptable substitute. Same thing with the rows, I'm running out of weight very quickly and was wondering if one armed dumbbell rows would be an acceptable substitute for the bent over rows. Thanks.

What's the heaviest barbell? How much money to break your contract?

[PatheticLoser]

Better change it to something positive. Degrading and hating yourself will never get you anywhere. Srs.

Just being self-sarcastic, don't take it too seriously.
Peace

[Zerste]

In regards to my question on the previous page, I understand that sooner or later I'm going to have to change gyms just because of the lack loadable barbells, but seeing as how I just got my membership I was hoping that the rows and deadlifts wouldn't be too big of a deal. If they are I'll gladly cancel my membership and get one at a more well equipped gym.

[boozebrah]

Hey Jason,

I watch most of your video on youtube and love you no bullchit attitude with information, that is the main reason I watch. This is my first year training I decided to bulk before cutting and am around 25% bf, I dont do cardio I just base it off calories in and calories out. I lost a bit of weight but stopped losing, Ill drop my calories from 2800 to 2400 and see how I go.. My workouts are 1. chest/traps 2.back 3. shoulders 4. bi/tri 5. legs/traps. I was dreamer bulking at the start and I just got serious about counting carbs and fat intake.

I see this 5x5 novice lifting works on like 2-3-4 days a week? Im after a change around maybe for 12 weeks or so to keep it new and fresh. But do you think it would still be good for me? I have been lifting since late Feb. Allways do deads and squats/bench throughout the week and literally allways go 5 x 8 - 12 on 5 excercises or more. Recently I got more home gym equipment and I hurt a tendon in the base of my hand because I was going pretty hard in the gym.

whats your opinion? Im on a cut at the moment so I dont think ill get any strength gains plus I train by myself and heavy loads with bad form I want to avoid injury.

thanks, sorry about the post is all over the place.

[JasonDB]

Hey Jason,

I watch most of your video on youtube and love you no bullchit attitude with information, that is the main reason I watch. This is my first year training I decided to bulk before cutting and am around 25% bf, I dont do cardio I just base it off calories in and calories out. I lost a bit of weight but stopped losing, Ill drop my calories from 2800 to 2400 and see how I go.. My workouts are 1. chest/traps 2.back 3. shoulders 4. bi/tri 5. legs/traps. I was dreamer bulking at the start and I just got serious about counting carbs and fat intake.

I see this 5x5 novice lifting works on like 2-3-4 days a week? Im after a change around maybe for 12 weeks or so to keep it new and fresh. But do you think it would still be good for me? I have been lifting since late Feb. Allways do deads and squats/bench throughout the week and literally allways go 5 x 8 - 12 on 5 excercises or more. Recently I got more home gym equipment and I hurt a tendon in the base of my hand because I was going pretty hard in the gym.

whats your opinion? Im on a cut at the moment so I dont think ill get any strength gains plus I train by myself and heavy loads with bad form I want to avoid injury.

thanks, sorry about the post is all over the place.

Not entirely sure what you are asking but yes you have less than one year of hard consistent training experience on a progressive overload system. Keep in mind if you've been training for 5 years and using bad methods and only bench 185x3 and squat 275 as a max squat you are still a novice and need to be on a novice program to finish out your noob gains.

I think you need to sort your bad form issue or no program will be safe for you.

[boozebrah]

Not entirely sure what you are asking but yes you have less than one year of hard consistent training experience on a progressive overload system. Keep in mind if you've been training for 5 years and using bad methods and only bench 185x3 and squat 275 as a max squat you are still a novice and need to be on a novice program to finish out your noob gains.

I think you need to sort your bad form issue or no program will be safe for you.

I guess what im trying to ask is, is there a point in changing the routine to your 5x5 7 weeks into a long cut if 5x5 is based around big compound movements gaining strength when you cant gain strength whilst cutting.

deadlift form is my only worry but ill get right into studying it tommorow night.

[JasonDB]

I guess what im trying to ask is, is there a point in changing the routine to your 5x5 7 weeks into a long cut if 5x5 is based around big compound movements gaining strength when you cant gain strength whilst cutting.

deadlift form is my only worry but ill get right into studying it tommorow night.

Not gaining strenght on a cut is not universal. It depends on how large your deficit, how long you have been training, what program you are running etc. Scan through the thread. There are people cutting on this program gaining strength.

[schonsense]

Hey Jason,

I thought my question was a little too long to leave as a youtube comment. I have been running your novice 5x5 for about a month now on an every other day rotation and I have seen really good progress. I am coming back from a 5+ year layoff due to a minor shoulder injury and then getting married/moving etc. Back then I did not know how to ****ing bench, to paraphrase another vid of yours, so my triceps were very well developed compared to my chest, especially my upper chest. I know muscle memory is the wrong term, but it seems like my physique is trying to build itself back up to its previous proportions. I can tell my chest is growing but it struggles for gains whereas the rest of my body is gaining hand over fist, even though I have corrected my piss poor bench technique.

So, here is my first question, do you think swapping a shallow incline press in for the close grip bench press would help even out my chest/triceps development?

Second question, what are your thoughts on underhand rows. Would there be any benefit to alternating overhand/underhand with the A/B workouts?

TLDR; ****ty chest, good tris, incline press ok? Overhand vs. underhand rowing?

[JasonDB]

Hey Jason,

I thought my question was a little too long to leave as a youtube comment. I have been running your novice 5x5 for about a month now on an every other day rotation and I have seen really good progress. I am coming back from a 5+ year layoff due to a minor shoulder injury and then getting married/moving etc. Back then I did not know how to ****ing bench, to paraphrase another vid of yours, so my triceps were very well developed compared to my chest, especially my upper chest. I know muscle memory is the wrong term, but it seems like my physique is trying to build itself back up to its previous proportions. I can tell my chest is growing but it struggles for gains whereas the rest of my body is gaining hand over fist, even though I have corrected my piss poor bench technique.

So, here is my first question, do you think swapping a shallow incline press in for the close grip bench press would help even out my chest/triceps development?

Second question, what are your thoughts on underhand rows. Would there be any benefit to alternating overhand/underhand with the A/B workouts?

TLDR; ****ty chest, good tris, incline press ok? Overhand vs. underhand rowing?

In your case as you are not a rank novice with muscle memory and previous imbalances returning quickly I would not object to some incline dumbbell working being used to replace the CGBP... and skipping the lockout on the flat bench and doing only the bottom 3/4 of the movement.

I would stick with pronated rows as you will get better lat development out of them (in B4 Dorian Yates).

[schonsense]

In your case as you are not a rank novice with muscle memory and previous imbalances returning quickly I would not object to some incline dumbbell working being used to replace the CGBP... and skipping the lockout on the flat bench and doing only the bottom 3/4 of the movement.

I would stick with pronated rows as you will get better lat development out of them (in B4 Dorian Yates).

Sounds great, thanks for the feedback.

[Stev05]

For workout B, you prescribe straight bar barbell curls or incline dumbbell curls. I've watched your video on the inclined curls, and you seem to really like that exercise, but I've also read that nothing beats the straight bar curls for biceps. Which is your preference for best results? If it makes a difference, I will be doing 3x8 chin ups for workout A.

[Spimman]

I did my first reset on overhead press a couple of weeks ago and pushed through 5x5 @ 90 lbs this morning successfully and without a great deal of struggle. It's encouraging to see the routine doing what you said it would, I am noticing size gains all over my upper body in addition to strength gains everywhere. Just wanted to say thanks to you Jason and encourage others in the beginning of this program to follow the routine and work hard, it works!

Question about curls and how to progress. Should I add weight every week and then reset back 10 pounds or so if I fail and ramp back up? I've been only adding weight when I think I can but have been stuck struggling at 70 pounds and wonder if I'm doing it wrong. If I reset to 60 pounds should I do it each day for the week then do 65 pounds the next week or increase each workout?

[lrd3]

I did my first reset on overhead press a couple of weeks ago and pushed through 5x5 @ 90 lbs this morning successfully and without a great deal of struggle. It's encouraging to see the routine doing what you said it would, I am noticing size gains all over my upper body in addition to strength gains everywhere. Just wanted to say thanks to you Jason and encourage others in the beginning of this program to follow the routine and work hard, it works!

Question about curls and how to progress. Should I add weight every week and then reset back 10 pounds or so if I fail and ramp back up? I've been only adding weight when I think I can but have been stuck struggling at 70 pounds and wonder if I'm doing it wrong. If I reset to 60 pounds should I do it each day for the week then do 65 pounds the next week or increase each workout?

+reps given for some good feedback.
ive been adding 2lbs to the bar on straight bar curls every time i perform that lift. i found that 5 lbs was a little much to fast. ive had these 1lb speaker magnets laying around for ever i just stick them to my plate and "bam" micro plate weight.

[JasonDB]

For workout B, you prescribe straight bar barbell curls or incline dumbbell curls. I've watched your video on the inclined curls, and you seem to really like that exercise, but I've also read that nothing beats the straight bar curls for biceps. Which is your preference for best results? If it makes a difference, I will be doing 3x8 chin ups for workout A.

I personally prefer the incline curl but that is based upon my own body, my previous bicep tear and thus need to do all my bicep work with even balance to try to keep my lagging arm from lagging even more. I think both are very fine movements as an isolation and go with whichever you feel the best burn with.

I did my first reset on overhead press a couple of weeks ago and pushed through 5x5 @ 90 lbs this morning successfully and without a great deal of struggle. It's encouraging to see the routine doing what you said it would, I am noticing size gains all over my upper body in addition to strength gains everywhere. Just wanted to say thanks to you Jason and encourage others in the beginning of this program to follow the routine and work hard, it works!

Question about curls and how to progress. Should I add weight every week and then reset back 10 pounds or so if I fail and ramp back up? I've been only adding weight when I think I can but have been stuck struggling at 70 pounds and wonder if I'm doing it wrong. If I reset to 60 pounds should I do it each day for the week then do 65 pounds the next week or increase each workout?

+reps given for some good feedback.
ive been adding 2lbs to the bar on straight bar curls every time i perform that lift. i found that 5 lbs was a little much to fast. ive had these 1lb speaker magnets laying around for ever i just stick them to my plate and "bam" micro plate weight.

Yeah the smaller isos like curls can be tricky to load at all. Increase them as you are able but also remember that the weight increases on the rows in the same workout are subjecting the biceps to a heavier load so even if you are repeating the same curl weight... you have still subjected the bicep to more total load than before. Microplates are one solution as posted above.

[Stev05]

I personally prefer the incline curl but that is based upon my own body, my previous bicep tear and thus need to do all my bicep work with even balance to try to keep my lagging arm from lagging even more. I think both are very fine movements as an isolation and go with whichever you feel the best burn with.





Yeah the smaller isos like curls can be tricky to load at all. Increase them as you are able but also remember that the weight increases on the rows in the same workout are subjecting the biceps to a heavier load so even if you are repeating the same curl weight... you have still subjected the bicep to more total load than before. Microplates are one solution as posted above.

Thanks for the suggestion. I prefer the incline curls myself, so if you don't think one is superior to the other, I'll stick with those. I'm excited to start this program when I get back from vacation!

[CamLeslie]

Better change it to something positive. Degrading and hating yourself will never get you anywhere. Srs.

I agree with this. Words are powerful.

[CurltonBench]

Based jason,

i cant classify wether im an intermediate or novice. been lifting for like 1.8 years but ive had long periods of injuries shoulders and hip/glute. dropped deadlifting and backsquats. used to deadlift 165kgx2 and squat 130kgx5, i do mostly front squats, lunges and GHR/hyperextentions for balance/strength. my legs are genetically huge from years of football. further have been working hard to correct certain muscle imbalances due to stupid training which are largely resolved.
current lifts post injuries:
BP:100kgx5
OHP:65kgx5
FSQ:80kgx5
i do lying rows for now, used to BOR around 90-100kg which are very easy to cheat on. strict lying row 85kgx5.
weighted dips +40kgx7
weighted chinups +35kgx5 @ 75kg. have been cutting so getting weaker but started my bulk now. so questions:
1. am i a novice or intermediate?

in case im an intermediate, since your intermediate video doesnt have a thread anywhere. im forced to workout 3 consecutive days in the week. i was leaning towards 5/3/1 with bodybuilding accesory for this reason.
2. should i do your programs anyway or would this be retarded?

can I in anyway take advantage of this consecutive lifting via carbcycling/other principles or is that a waste of time? thanks in advance

[snrygo]

Based jason,

i cant classify wether im an intermediate or novice. been lifting for like 1.8 years but ive had long periods of injuries shoulders and hip/glute. dropped deadlifting and backsquats. used to deadlift 165kgx2 and squat 130kgx5, i do mostly front squats, lunges and GHR/hyperextentions for balance/strength. my legs are genetically huge from years of football. further have been working hard to correct certain muscle imbalances due to stupid training which are largely resolved.
current lifts post injuries:
BP:100kgx5
OHP:65kgx5
FSQ:80kgx5
i do lying rows for now, used to BOR around 90-100kg which are very easy to cheat on. strict lying row 85kgx5.
weighted dips +40kgx7
weighted chinups +35kgx5 @ 75kg. have been cutting so getting weaker but started my bulk now. so questions:
1. am i a novice or intermediate?

in case im an intermediate, since your intermediate video doesnt have a thread anywhere. im forced to workout 3 consecutive days in the week. i was leaning towards 5/3/1 with bodybuilding accesory for this reason.
2. should i do your programs anyway or would this be retarded?

can I in anyway take advantage of this consecutive lifting via carbcycling/other principles or is that a waste of time? thanks in advance

you are no longer an intermediate with those numbers.


jason has said before that this routine can be used for intermediates with the incorporation of deloads every 6-8 weeks .

alternatively there is his intermediate routine.

[CurltonBench]

you are no longer an intermediate with those numbers.


jason has said before that this routine can be used for intermediates with the incorporation of deloads every 6-8 weeks .

alternatively there is his intermediate routine.

\

R u 'avin a giggle m8? so i was one before injury? thats what deadlifting 5x5 @ 90%, neglecting glutes,rear delts and benching with flared elbows will give you.