THE OFFICIAL *YOU POST YOUR ROUTINE FOR CRITIQUES* THREAD(srs)

[DerekEt]

Cool, yeah I'll stick with P/P/L. I will do 5x5 on bench, and MP for reps 3x 6-8, progressing slower? I can do Upright rows and Side Lateral for my medial delts.

Military press or Shoulder Press? I'm guessing this is arbitrary. I'll probably do Military just because i feel i will build more raw strength.

As a beginner, Barbell will be easier to progressively overload and monitor. Yeah 6-8 reps is good; ok Upright Row and Side Lateral Raises are the top 2 exercises for shoulder growth!

[LiftCore]

You are doing way too much work. Just because you feel like you are doing less, doesn't mean you are. Sometimes, less is more. You are doing way too much work right now, and it looks disorganized. It does not seem like you ready yet to write your own training program at this time.

I want to take what you say and use it because you do come off as more experienced, but could you please elaborate, because it just seems like a generic answer? I really don't feel like I'm overdoing anything, my workouts last around 1 hr and 15 mins or so. Plus you didn't comment on whether my gains were good or not. I'm not trying to disprove you, but a little more depth in the answer would be appreciated. Are you saying if I did less I would gain more? And why so?

Cheers

[DerekEt]

I want to take what you say and use it because you do come off as more experienced, but could you please elaborate, because it just seems like a generic answer? I really don't feel like I'm overdoing anything, my workouts last around 1 hr and 15 mins or so. Plus you didn't comment on whether my gains were good or not. I'm not trying to disprove you, but a little more depth in the answer would be appreciated. Are you saying if I did less I would gain more? And why so?

Cheers

More work = / = more results.

You are there to stimulate a muscle, let it grow bigger and stronger from the session, and then retrain it again as quickly as possible so the process repeats.

If you can make the same gains , if not better , by only doing a few working sets for a muscle group (2-4), then why not do that? You are just tapping into your recovery at the point that you keep punishing a muscle with more and more sets. It already received the stimulus that it needs to grow bigger and stronger.

Look around this website, look around the entire bodybuilding world at people like Ronnie Coleman,Kai Greene,Lee Haney,Dorian Yates,and the list goes on. Notice how the top successful bodybuilders, who won 6-8X Mr.Olympia only do 1 working set per exercise. This is even being put in practice on these forums by many successful trainees.They may warm-up a few times with very light weight; but they will work up to One working set per exercise , and their training session in the end is only about 3-4 sets per muscle group. This is not rewriting the books, rather it is conforming to them. I can't comment if your gains were good or not; I would say they were average or less, that is a difficult question for somebody to answer. My suggestion, as I said before, is to follow a training program that is ALREADY written; look around on the forums at programs such as the Push/Pull/Legs on page 1, PHAT , or anything with at least a 2x a week frequency, and follow it. After you have at least 1-2 months experience on it, see how your gains were, and then decide whether you liked it or not. Here is another good example of a 2x/week frequency program; a 3on 1 off

http://goldenmuscles.com/training/le...rkout-routine/


Keep in mind, it is pyramided to one top set per exercise.

[bravo96]

ethan any tips or thoughts on regparks program you ran.

[Singh1996]

Went from 145-180 from Dec 2011 - September 2012. Gained fat after a 4 month layoff due to a rotator cuff injury. Been cutting down to 160 since then, hoping to hit it by January. I cannot perform back squats, deadlifts, anything related to shoulders, or anything overhead I am currently training for strength.

Everything is done for four working sets other than arms, calves, and traps which are done for three. Benching, squatting, bent over rows all have ~3 sets of warm up. Aim for 3-5 reps, once I hit 4 or 5 for four sets I'll push the weight up and repeat.



Chest & Biceps & Trapezeus
Legs, Calves & Abdominals
Back & Triceps & Trapezius
Rest/Abdominals & Stretch
Chest & Biceps
Back & Triceps
Rest/Abdominals & Stretch


Abdominals
Leg raises
Sit ups
Lying machine oblique raises
OR
P90X

Trapezius
Barbell shrugs
Dumbbell shrugs


Chest & Biceps
Incline barbell bench press
150x3x1, 150x4x1, 150x3x2
Decline smith machine bench press
180x3x1, 195x3x3

Standing straight bar curls
100x3x2, 100x2x1
Dumbbell preacher curls 40x4x3
Hammer curls 50x3x2, 50x5x1
Whatever



Back & Triceps
Bent over underhand barbell rows 185x4x4
T-bar 140x3x4
One arm dumbbell rows 85x3x4


Rope cable overhead extensions
140x4x1, 140x5x1, 140x
Skull crushers 80x3x3
Pressdowns 70x5x2
Whatever


Legs, Calves, Abdominals
Front squats 150x3x3, 150x2x1
Leg press curved heavy 540x3x4
Lunges 70x5x1, 80x3/4/3x1,
Seated calf raises
90x10x1, 90x15x1, 90x20x1,
Leg raises
Sit ups
Lying machine oblique raises


My (replacement) big three:

Late September:
Front Squat - 95lbs x 5
Bent over row - 135lbs x 6
Decline bench press - 145lbs x 5

Current:
Front Squat: 150 x 3
Bent over row - 185 x 4
Decline bench press - 195 x 3

Bodyweight has gone from 177.7lbs - 167.4lbs

[Pinkton]

I'll bite.
RP = Rest pause. 3 sets to get to 15 reps for compounds, 3 sets to get to 20 reps for isolations. 15 secs rest in between each set
Day 1:
Dumbbell chest press x1 RP
Incline HS x1 RP
Standing shoulder press x1 RP
Medial delt raise x1 RP
Tricep pushdown x1 RP
Tricep rope pushdown x1 RP

Day 2:
Barbell row x1 RP
Lat pulldown x1 RP
Face pulls x1 RP
Bent over flys x1 RP
Rear delt machine x1 RP
Bicep curl x1 RP
DB Curl x1 RP

Day 3:
Hack squat x1 RP
Straight legged deadlift x1 RP
Leg extension x1 RP
Lying leg curl x1 RP
Standing calf x1 RP

Day 4: Rest

Repeat

[AdCon]

I'm a beginner.

My main goal is size but strength is still important to me.

I've been doing a push / pull / legs program that goes like this:

Legs:

F. Squats
Leg extensions
Hamstring curls
Glute ham raises
Donkey calf raises
Standing calf raises
Abs

Push:

Incline bench
Flat bench
Shoulder press
Lateral raises
Pushdowns
Skull crushers to behind the head

Pull:

Weighted pull ups
Barbell row
Dumbbell row
Barbell curl
Hammer curl
Shrugs
Face pulls

I do this 3 days on 1 day off.

My main concern is that the volume is too high for a beginner like myself and maybe I should be on a strength routine.

What are your thoughts?

[Sp1re]

You can do Madcows with accessory work. Finish all the main lifts, then add some accessory work at the end. There are templates around the internet, if you need help find one , let me know.

Ethan can you please elaborate on why madcows is better than the push/pull routine?

[Meadey]

Pull/Push/Legs/Pull/Push/Legs/Off

Pull :
Deadlifts,
chit ton of rowing

Push:
Incline bench
loads of presses and laterals

Legs:
Squatz or front squatz
more squat variants
hamstring and calves

[DerekEt]

ethan any tips or thoughts on regparks program you ran.

First follow the program to the teeth for 3 months; then you may want to consider adding a Side/Rear Delt movement,that's about it.
Also keep in mind,Reg states that you do not have to do the first Standing Overhead Press,and can replace that with Incline Bench;in his time & era,they were more concerned with the Shoulders than Chest, Chest was always an afterthought. He believes it is more appropriate to do Incline Bench+Flat Bench, with the Shoulder Press near the end of the training.

[RollTideNation]

Good idea for a thread.

In to help guys out.

[DerekEt]

Went from 145-180 from Dec 2011 - September 2012. Gained fat after a 4 month layoff due to a rotator cuff injury. Been cutting down to 160 since then, hoping to hit it by January. I cannot perform back squats, deadlifts, anything related to shoulders, or anything overhead I am currently training for strength.

Everything is done for four working sets other than arms, calves, and traps which are done for three. Benching, squatting, bent over rows all have ~3 sets of warm up. Aim for 3-5 reps, once I hit 4 or 5 for four sets I'll push the weight up and repeat.



Chest & Biceps & Trapezeus
Legs, Calves & Abdominals
Back & Triceps & Trapezius
Rest/Abdominals & Stretch
Chest & Biceps
Back & Triceps
Rest/Abdominals & Stretch


Abdominals
Leg raises
Sit ups
Lying machine oblique raises
OR
P90X

Trapezius
Barbell shrugs
Dumbbell shrugs


Chest & Biceps
Incline barbell bench press
150x3x1, 150x4x1, 150x3x2
Decline smith machine bench press
180x3x1, 195x3x3

Standing straight bar curls
100x3x2, 100x2x1
Dumbbell preacher curls 40x4x3
Hammer curls 50x3x2, 50x5x1
Whatever



Back & Triceps
Bent over underhand barbell rows 185x4x4
T-bar 140x3x4
One arm dumbbell rows 85x3x4


Rope cable overhead extensions
140x4x1, 140x5x1, 140x
Skull crushers 80x3x3
Pressdowns 70x5x2
Whatever


Legs, Calves, Abdominals
Front squats 150x3x3, 150x2x1
Leg press curved heavy 540x3x4
Lunges 70x5x1, 80x3/4/3x1,
Seated calf raises
90x10x1, 90x15x1, 90x20x1,
Leg raises
Sit ups
Lying machine oblique raises


My (replacement) big three:

Late September:
Front Squat - 95lbs x 5
Bent over row - 135lbs x 6
Decline bench press - 145lbs x 5

Current:
Front Squat: 150 x 3
Bent over row - 185 x 4
Decline bench press - 195 x 3

Bodyweight has gone from 177.7lbs - 167.4lbs

I commend you for trying to work around your injury; very sorry to hear about what happened. If you are unable to perform any Squats,Deadlifts,or Overhead movements, it seems like right now your friends are going to be:

1) Bench Pressing 2) Front Squats 3) Rows 4)Machine movements that don't hurt

You are already implementing this into practice, but one of the big problems with your program is at the end of the week you are doing Chest/Biceps and Back/Triceps on back-to-back days. This is not the best way to go about doing this. Also, what brought you to choose "Getting 4-5 sets" of "4-5" reps before moving up in weight? If you are training for strength, I would also scrap the Decline Bench out of your routine. Assuming by strength, you mean powerlifting, or adding weight to your Flat Bench means you want movements to bring up your Flat Bench. Decline does a very poor job of transferring to the Flat Bench.

Before we go any further, have you tried following a proven training program? Based on your lifts, it doesn't seem like it is time to create your own programming. With a few minor tweaks, you could tailor an existing program to your own.

[Meadey]

Ok I'll be serious : Push/Pull/Legs/Repeat/Off

Pull:
Deadlift (when not squatting afterwards)
Overhand pullup / Close grip chinup
Barbell row/ Underhand Barbell Row
Pulldown (Opposite to the previous pullup)
Dumbbell Row / one arm machine row
Incline Bench Row/Cable Row
FacePulls
2 bicep movements

Push:
Incline Bench
DB shoulder press
Dips/Flat DB Press
One arm 'cheat' lateral
Machine Fly / Press
Another lateral movement
Rope pushdown
Overhead extension

Legs:
Squat/Front squat
Barbell/Trap bar hack squat
Romanian deadlift/Walking lunges
Leg Extension (sometimes leg press)
Leg Curls
Calf raises
Ab work

Most rep ranges are 8 reps then increase weight if the rep quality was good. On 'isolations' I go 8-12 typically.
Compounds are 4 sets usually, maybe more if I haven't progressed from last week, (eg 5 sets of 8 as opposed to last week's 4)

[bgtarikat2]

ill go first...up for a debate

chest/tri

bb bench- 5x5
bb incline- 4x12
decline bb bench- 2x12
flat bar pushdown- 4x12
close grip bench press-4X12

back/biceps
pullups-4x5-8
deadlifts-3x3
bb rows- 4x12
under hand close grip lat pulldown-3X12
bb curls-4x8-12
seated incline db hammer curls-3X12+

shoulder/legs

seated db press- 4X10
side raise- 4X8-12
reardelt flies- 3X12
squat- 3X5
front squat- 3X12
ham curl machine- 4x12
leg extensions 3X12
calves-3x12+

done in that pattern 6 days a week, sunday i rest
at a 500+ caloric surplus with 1g per pound of bodyweight
8+ hours of sleep every night
heavy compounds progress by 5 pounds session(thats the objective)
always slow negatives on isolation/secondary lifts
squats are azz to da grazz
goal is to gain size, but strength is important.
bench- 205
squat- 295
deadlift- 325-350

almost the same routine, except i do legs first on shoulder/leg day, all sets 4-8 reps
would you recommend hamstrings with legs or with back considering i dl on back day.

[DerekEt]

I'll bite.
RP = Rest pause. 3 sets to get to 15 reps for compounds, 3 sets to get to 20 reps for isolations. 15 secs rest in between each set
Day 1:
Dumbbell chest press x1 RP
Incline HS x1 RP
Standing shoulder press x1 RP
Medial delt raise x1 RP
Tricep pushdown x1 RP
Tricep rope pushdown x1 RP

Day 2:
Barbell row x1 RP
Lat pulldown x1 RP
Face pulls x1 RP
Bent over flys x1 RP
Rear delt machine x1 RP
Bicep curl x1 RP
DB Curl x1 RP

Day 3:
Hack squat x1 RP
Straight legged deadlift x1 RP
Leg extension x1 RP
Lying leg curl x1 RP
Standing calf x1 RP

Day 4: Rest

Repeat

Although the principle's look good, some of the exercise selection seems a bit off if you are trying to train in a DogCrapp Training fashion. One of the main things DC training emphasizes is the use of Machines simply because certain freeweight exercises would be extremely difficult to perform while maintaining gut-busting intensity and poundages.

Push Day - How are you doing with using Dumbbell Bench for rest-paused? It's very possible, but it seems difficult to always get the dumbbells in position especially when you are hitting absolutel failure three times in such a short amount of time.A better substitution for this type of training would be a Smith Machine Shoulder Press; or at least a Shoulder movement that is not standing. Do you have any particular reason for choosing Standing? Your shoulders will most likely not be giving out before everything else does, especially with this kind of training, when you utilize that movement. Two tricep pushdowns seems unnecessary; you need a movement that will target the Long Head . This means an Overhead Extensions; both pushdowns emphasize the Medial and Lateral head respectively . I'm surprised you have no barbell pressing movements in there except the Shoulder Press; this seems rather unorthodox from how DC training is set up.

Pull Day- When you say Bicep Curl, what kind ? Different bicep curls/grips can emphasize the Outer or Inner Head(Long/Short). Unfortunately lots of people end up hitting one hand a lot more than the other, especially because it feels "more comfortable", and then wonder why they have a nonexistent Inner head. If you want to cover all the bases of the biceps, Barbell Curl+Incline Dumbbell Curl may be an option. The DC template has you use Hammer Curls to hit both the Inner head as well as the Brachioradialis, have you ever thought of this? You also have 3 movements focusing on the Rear-Deltoids and only one for Back Thickness/Back Width. Is there any particular reason for this? I would think if you wanted to do that much volume on such a small bodypart,that you would do more for your actual Lats/Traps. One could argue Face Pulls hits the traps, but nowhere near how other movements can.

Leg Day - Looks pretty solid, although I would question how safe rest pausing 3 sets to failure on movements like Hack Squats and Straight Deadlifts would be. DC Training says to do 1 set to complete failure, followed by a widowmaker on legs. I am only concerned about your safety, not about how effective it is going to be. Maybe you can consider doing a Squat movement to failure, followed by a 20rep widowmaker Leg Press that makes you cry for your mommy

I like the idea ! Looks like a pretty solid template all around; if it were me, I would switch Legs day with Pull Day. Training Legs the day after Back , especially when you have a 3on/1off where you are not really required to do so, just doesn't make much sense to me. Lots of the musculature that is fatigued from back day will hinder your leg training workout, and could even make it dangerous.

[DerekEt]

I'm a beginner.

My main goal is size but strength is still important to me.

I've been doing a push / pull / legs program that goes like this:

Legs:

F. Squats
Leg extensions
Hamstring curls
Glute ham raises
Donkey calf raises
Standing calf raises
Abs

Push:

Incline bench
Flat bench
Shoulder press
Lateral raises
Pushdowns
Skull crushers to behind the head

Pull:

Weighted pull ups
Barbell row
Dumbbell row
Barbell curl
Hammer curl
Shrugs
Face pulls

I do this 3 days on 1 day off.

My main concern is that the volume is too high for a beginner like myself and maybe I should be on a strength routine.

What are your thoughts?

There are a few more pieces of information that need to be given:

1) What are your current lifts on the main movements? (Bench,Squat,Row,etc)
2) How many sets, how many reps, how many are actually working sets

Glancing at your program, it actually looks pretty solid. Some things you may want to change, is substituting Leg Extensions for heavy Leg Pressing to really hammer those quads with a taxing movement. Leg Press will improve your lower body much more than Leg Extensions will,especially as a beginner. Maybe you can simply use Leg extensions as an "after-thought" once you finish your Front Squats & Leg Pressing? I like your Leg day, if it were me I would have added a Romanian/Stiff Deadlift for the Hamstrings. Push day looks pretty solid as well, you may consider having two side deltoid movements since they make up the bulk of your shoulder; Upright Rows+Side Laterals being a good example. I like your Pull day, it looks pretty good.

You set up a nice program! Just think about the very minor tweaks on Leg Day(adding in a Leg Press/Deadlift), as those are two staple moves of essentially every bodybuilder's training program. First and foremost, let us all know where you are at in your training though !

[DerekEt]

Ethan can you please elaborate on why madcows is better than the push/pull routine?

I simply do not think that you are ready to create your own training program yet, and Madcows has been proven time and time again to be VERY effective in adding tons of poundages to people's lifts. We're talking about 300+ benches,500+ squats,and more.All you have to do is use the Madcow's template and add accessory work to have an awesome training program. When you are more advanced, then you can create your own training routine because you have learned more in the process to see what works and does not work for you.

[DerekEt]

Pull/Push/Legs/Pull/Push/Legs/Off

Pull :
Deadlifts,
chit ton of rowing

Push:
Incline bench
loads of presses and laterals

Legs:
Squatz or front squatz
more squat variants
hamstring and calves

Not much information was given in this for anybody to really have much to say. How many sets,working sets,repetitions?How are you adding weight to the bar, progressing, tracking your progress? In theory, it does look good; you start with either Deadlifts,Incline Bench,or Squat and then do movements afterwards that target the same musculature. But there isn't much to work with here. One thing I will say though, is that you may as well turn it into LEGS PUSH PULL so that you don't have fatigued Back/Bicep stabilizers for your pushing day.

[fr100]

I have been doing a bro split ( chest, back, shoulders, legs and arms) for a long time and i have been thinking of changing things up, so I made this routine:

Push day:

Bench Press 3 x 8-12
Incline Bench Press 3 x 8-12
Military press 4 x 6-8
Lateral Raises 2 x 6-8
Skull Crushers - 4 x 6-10
Tricep Pushdowns - 2 x 8-12

Pull Day:

Lat Pulldown - 3 x 8-12
Bent Over Rows - 4 x 10-12
Close Grip Lat Pulldown - 3 sets x 8-12
One arm Rows/ Underhand grip Barbell Row - 3 x 8-12
Ez Barbell curl - 3 x8 -12
Preacher Curl / Incline Bicep Curl - 3 sets

Legs :

Squats 4 x 5-6
Stiff Legged Deadlifts - 3 x 8 -12
Leg Extensions - 3 x 8-12
Hamstring Curls - 3 x 8-12

[DerekEt]

I have been doing a bro split ( chest, back, shoulders, legs and arms) for a long time and i have been thinking of changing things up, so I made this routine:

Push day:

Bench Press 3 x 8-12
Incline Bench Press 3 x 8-12
Military press 4 x 6-8
Lateral Raises 2 x 6-8
Skull Crushers - 4 x 6-10
Tricep Pushdowns - 2 x 8-12

Pull Day:

Lat Pulldown - 3 x 8-12
Bent Over Rows - 4 x 10-12
Close Grip Lat Pulldown - 3 sets x 8-12
One arm Rows/ Underhand grip Barbell Row - 3 x 8-12
Ez Barbell curl - 3 x8 -12
Preacher Curl / Incline Bicep Curl - 3 sets

Legs :

Squats 4 x 5-6
Stiff Legged Deadlifts - 3 x 8 -12
Leg Extensions - 3 x 8-12
Hamstring Curls - 3 x 8-12

Not much information was given in this for anybody to really have much to say. How many sets,working sets,repetitions?How are you adding weight to the bar, progressing, tracking your progress? In theory, it does look good; you start with either Bench,Squats,or Pullups/Lat Pulldowns and then do the basic movements afterwards that target the musculature for the day.But there isn't much to work with here. One thing I will say though, is that you may as well turn it into LEGS PUSH PULL so that you don't have fatigued Back while training for Legs.

For one, I would put in an overhead tricep movement on push day. Can you do Pullups? Having two lat pulldowns in one day honestly seems silly. Two barbell rows in a day also seems silly. I suggest you put in a leg press on Leg Day; other than that it looks like a good leg day. Pull day seems to have too many movements that do the same thing. Doing Bent-Over Rows,Pullups or Lat Pulldowns,a Cable Row, followed by a TBAR or Dumbbell Row will cover your entire back musculature.

Have you looked into the Legs,Push,Pull or 3on/1off routines already on this website or in this thread that were already suggested?

[bgtarikat2]

sorry didnt post up entire routine just quoted someones...


my routine

mon
shoulder/legs

squat- 5 3 1
front squat- 4x 2-8 rev pyramid
ham curl machine- 3x8 (should i do hamstrings here)

seated db press- 4-10 rev pyramid
side raise- 3x12
reardelt flies- 3X12
cable side raise 2x12

tues
back/biceps
weight pullup - 4-10 rev pyramid
deadlifts-3x2-8 rev pyramid
bb rows- 3x4-10 rev pyramid
tbar rows 3x4-10 rev pyramid
bb curls-2x10
(should i do hamstrings here) since DL'ing that day

wen
chest/tri

bb bench- 3x4-10 rev pyramid
db incline- 3x4-10 rev pyramid
weighted gironda dips 3x4-10 rev pyramid
scull crushers-3X6
calves-"4 min calves"

repeat...


since ive got mild ATP and trying to fix that when should i do hamstrings, considering deads hits my hams pretty bad.

until recently i am not doing any ham work i just started doing them recently.. because im trying to get rid of atp and not have muscle imbalances.

Also which hamstrings machine/exercise would you recommend, till now ive only done deads for hamstrings.

[Rosssmith17]

Upper (Excluding Shoulders):
Decline BB Bench 3 x 8
Incline DB Bench 3 x 8
DB Tricep Extensions 3 x 8
Lat Pulldowns 3 x 8
Pullups 3 x Failure
T-Bar Rows 3 x 8
DB Bicep Curls 3 x 8
OPTIONAL Hammer Curls 2 x 8

Lower (Including Shoulders):
Squats 3 x 8
Seated Calf Raise 3 x 8-12
Deadlift 3 x 8
Military Press 3 x 8
Lateral Raise 3 x 8
Seated Rear Delt Flies 3 x 8
Shrugs 3 x 8


I don't like working Shoulders on the same day as Chest and Tri's, my shoulder lifts are stronger when done on Lower body day.

[DerekEt]

sorry didnt post up entire routine just quoted someones...


my routine

mon
shoulder/legs

squat- 5 3 1
front squat- 4x 2-8 rev pyramid
ham curl machine- 3x8 (should i do hamstrings here)

seated db press- 4-10 rev pyramid
side raise- 3x12
reardelt flies- 3X12
cable side raise 2x12

tues
back/biceps
weight pullup - 4-10 rev pyramid
deadlifts-3x2-8 rev pyramid
bb rows- 3x4-10 rev pyramid
tbar rows 3x4-10 rev pyramid
bb curls-2x10
(should i do hamstrings here) since DL'ing that day

wen
chest/tri

bb bench- 3x4-10 rev pyramid
db incline- 3x4-10 rev pyramid
weighted gironda dips 3x4-10 rev pyramid
scull crushers-3X6
calves-"4 min calves"

repeat...


since ive got mild ATP and trying to fix that when should i do hamstrings, considering deads hits my hams pretty bad.

until recently i am not doing any ham work i just started doing them recently.. because im trying to get rid of atp and not have muscle imbalances.

Before we go into details, are these all working sets? Have you considered making it Legs Push Pull so the muscle groups have at least a day of rest in between? Why do you use 5/3/1 for only squats, then have no means of progression for anything else?

[bgtarikat2]

Before we go into details, are these all working sets? Have you considered making it Legs Push Pull so the muscle groups have at least a day of rest in between? Why do you use 5/3/1 for only squats, then have no means of progression for anything else?

i used push pull legs, switched to this since i can make more progress doing chest and shoulders on seperate days, and i have done 5 3 1 for bench and DL until now, should i stick to that or change to this rev pyramid. I seem to progress faster with a reverse pyramid on bench/dl. I actually mean to have maximum progression.

[DerekEt]

Upper (Excluding Shoulders):
Decline BB Bench 3 x 8
Incline DB Bench 3 x 8
DB Tricep Extensions 3 x 8
Lat Pulldowns 3 x 8
Pullups 3 x Failure
T-Bar Rows 3 x 8
DB Bicep Curls 3 x 8
OPTIONAL Hammer Curls 2 x 8

Lower (Including Shoulders):
Squats 3 x 8
Seated Calf Raise 3 x 8-12
Deadlift 3 x 8
Military Press 3 x 8
Lateral Raise 3 x 8
Seated Rear Delt Flies 3 x 8
Shrugs 3 x 8


I don't like working Shoulders on the same day as Chest and Tri's, my shoulder lifts are stronger when done on Lower body day.

Is this a 2-way or 3-way split? Your Upper day consists of all the Chest/Tricep/Back/Bicep work; or is it segmented into 2 different upper days?

What are your goals? How do you track progression? What are your current lifts? How long have you been training?

Do you train Shoulders the day after Upper Body? This wouldn't be the best decision; you are training the same musculature two days in a row unless this is an A/off/B/off/A/off/B template. Nobody can answer anything about this template until you are more thorough and answer these questions.

[DerekEt]

i used push pull legs, switched to this since i can make more progress doing chest and shoulders on seperate days, and i have done 5 3 1 for bench and DL until now, should i stick to that or change to this rev pyramid. I seem to progress faster with a reverse pyramid.

You don't have to use 5/3/1, in fact, I can pretty much guarantee you the progress on it will be way too slow for you since you are not at an advanced level of lifting yet. It was simply odd that you wrote "5/3/1" squats but nothing else was 5/3/1. Can you give us some details on how your progress has been with reverse pyramid? Before/after numbers and time frames would be nice; never fix something that isn't broken . That is one of the biggest mistakes you can ever do.

If you are adamant about being able to constantly progress in a non-fatigued state on Shoulder Press, then you might consider this:

Chest/Arms , Lower , Shoulders/Back , Off , Repeat . This is a 3on/1off that will allow you to do that.

[bgtarikat2]

You don't have to use 5/3/1, in fact, I can pretty much guarantee you the progress on it will be way too slow for you since you are not at an advanced level of lifting yet. It was simply odd that you wrote "5/3/1" squats but nothing else was 5/3/1. Can you give us some details on how your progress has been with reverse pyramid? Before/after numbers and time frames would be nice; never fix something that isn't broken . That is one of the biggest mistakes you can ever do.

If you are adamant about being able to constantly progress in a non-fatigued state on Shoulder Press, then you might consider this:

Chest/Arms , Lower , Shoulders/Back , Off , Repeat . This is a 3on/1off that will allow you to do that.

What lifts should i start 5 3 1 at?

for bench
at 5 3 1 i went to the week that i did 225 as a 1rm
right now im doing a reverse pyramid of 6x205 (move up to 215x4 next week) 8x195(up to 205x6) 10x185(up to 8x195)

[alannigz]

Is this too much volume ?

Lower
Squat 4x4-8
Hack Squat Machine 3x12-15
Leg curl 4x12-15
RDL 3x6-8
Calves+Abs
Barbell Shrug 4x6-10
Shrug Machine 4x10-15

Upper
Flat Barbell Press 4x6-10
Machine Flyes 4x10-15
Pulldown 4x10-15
DB row 4x6-10
DB shoulder press 4x6-10
Lateral Raise 4x10-15
V-Bar pushdown 4x10-15
Incline DB curl 4x10-15

- Frequency : 2 on 1off
- RPT style, ie 1st set to failure, -10% weight on subsequent sets but +1 rep each time, so the 2nd set might still be hard, but 3rd and 4th should be easy. For example, 100KGx6(F), 90KGx7, 80KGx8, 70KGx9
- Progression, add weight when I hit 9-10 reps on the first set.
- Goal : aesthetics.

Thanks

[DerekEt]

What lifts should i start 5 3 1 at?

I can't give exact numbers, but I would wait until you are at least an Elite level of lifting before you use something like 5/3/1 . The progress is very slow, and it is geared more towards advanced trainees who can only add 5-10 pounds a month or less on their lifts because of how strong they already are.

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLi...Standards.html

You can use this chart for reference, it is somewhat decent in expressing what an Elite lifter is capable of strength-wise.

[Rosssmith17]

Is this a 2-way or 3-way split? Your Upper day consists of all the Chest/Tricep/Back/Bicep work; or is it segmented into 2 different upper days?

What are your goals? How do you track progression? What are your current lifts? How long have you been training?

Do you train Shoulders the day after Upper Body? This wouldn't be the best decision; you are training the same musculature two days in a row unless this is an A/off/B/off/A/off/B template. Nobody can answer anything about this template until you are more thorough and answer these questions.

2 Day split, Chest/Tris/Back/Bi's all on Upper Body day and the following day I train Legs & Shoulders as well as adding in abs work at the end.
I have tried a P/P/L Split but working shoulders on chest and triceps day showed a loss in strength when training shoulders

I usually do Upper/Lower/Off Repeat

Goals - Aesthetics