How to lose fat for Noobs

[iDrive]

I missed the jokes/sarcasm.. fail. I'll stop posting srs biz late at night lol

[Teflon_Don]

Someone seems to have missed the jokes/sarcasm. =/

In any case, I'm sure we have a few confused noobs right now, so for the record: Teh Don was joking.

I missed the jokes/sarcasm.. fail. I'll stop posting srs biz late at night lol

and...lulz...

[th3pwn3r]

and...lulz...

I got le' lulz from it!

How to troll Noobs for noobs(and lose some fat).

Eat less, lift more!

[Dominikm]

Well i'm back! No u guys didn't get rid of me!

Japan was a fukin riot n a half ppl!

I don't want to get on the scale coz I feel n look like a slob, hahaha, when in rome and rome being holidays have fun as you only live once. There is nothing else that I see in the future that can stop or hold me back now... It's just work, gym, diet & uni from here, no more holidays planned, xmas is all I can think of and thats just a few days break anyhow.

Hit the gym up from my weights this afternoon, man that kicked my ass and I felt good! I'm dropping the crazy cardio routine as the gym should be part of life not life being part of my routine/gym. I'm just gonna eat less.

It's going to be interesting to see where i'm at in a month, I hope back to where I left off before my 4 week alcohol bender, haha...

Anything new happed while I was gone ppl?

[th3pwn3r]

Well i'm back! No u guys didn't get rid of me!

Japan was a fukin riot n a half ppl!

I don't want to get on the scale coz I feel n look like a slob, hahaha, when in rome and rome being holidays have fun as you only live once. There is nothing else that I see in the future that can stop or hold me back now... It's just work, gym, diet & uni from here, no more holidays planned, xmas is all I can think of and thats just a few days break anyhow.

Hit the gym up from my weights this afternoon, man that kicked my ass and I felt good! I'm dropping the crazy cardio routine as the gym should be part of life not life being part of my routine/gym. I'm just gonna eat less.

It's going to be interesting to see where i'm at in a month, I hope back to where I left off before my 4 week alcohol bender, haha...

Anything new happed while I was gone ppl?

Wow, 4 weeks, that's terrible. Oh well, I'm sure you're back on track now. Don't let the upcoming holidays stop you from giving yourself the Christmas present of being lean.

[Dominikm]

yea 2 weeks in japan, a few days in kl, weekend back of skydiving n boozing and the first few days back at work still eating crap coz I couldn't be assed, ha...

But hey, the 6 weeks leading up to my holidays I changed myself more than ever before and did more changing and work that most ppl in the world who wanna get rid of the fat will ever achieve...

Back to it, did the 2lbs/week before and I know how to do it so back to it and abs here we come

Before it was holidays I was looking forward to, now I guess it's xmas, being where I was before holidays and then by my bday, 28th of feb being lean

I already feel a million bucks compared to 3 days ago being back in the gym and eating right.

[older2533]

Just lose it again. I just don't think other than psychology (and that is a big fat condition) that binges matter that much.

I just got back from a 5 day vacation, the middle of which was a three day cruise.

I was 164.6 the morning I left. (a week ago Thursday). When I got back and weighed myself Tuesday morning (after pizza the night before because there was no food in the house) I weighed 170.2. A gain of 5.6 lbs in 5 days! So Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday were "back on track" days.

Wednesday morning. 168.6 lbs (lost 1.6 pounds)
Thursday morning. 166.6 lbs (lost 2 pounds)
Friday morning (today). 165.8 lbs (lost .8 pounds)

for a grand net so far of 1.2 lbs. Now it will be harder. Those 1.2 lbs were probably "for real".

Was it worth it? Yes.

[iDrive]

Just lose it again. I just don't think other than psychology (and that is a big fat condition) that binges matter that much.

I just got back from a 5 day vacation, the middle of which was a three day cruise.

I was 164.6 the morning I left. (a week ago Thursday). When I got back and weighed myself Tuesday morning (after pizza the night before because there was no food in the house) I weighed 170.2. A gain of 5.6 lbs in 5 days! So Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday were "back on track" days.

Wednesday morning. 168.6 lbs (lost 1.6 pounds)
Thursday morning. 166.6 lbs (lost 2 pounds)
Friday morning (today). 165.8 lbs (lost .8 pounds)

for a grand net so far of 1.2 lbs. Now it will be harder. Those 1.2 lbs were probably "for real".

Was it worth it? Yes.

OMG! 5.6lbs! You need to start a thread about how to get that off ASAP!

(lol)

As long as it was worth it then that's all that really matters

[Dominikm]

yea that's it, it's on psychology and I don't have any more problems. I was on holidays and it was long awaited and I was gonna enjoy it n have fun...

I expect when i'm on the scale in a week i'll be close to 90kg or so, I finished it off at just under 89kg before japan.

[older2533]

OMG! 5.6lbs! You need to start a thread about how to get that off ASAP!

(lol)

As long as it was worth it then that's all that really matters

Hah! But one thing is somewhat puzzling. 5.6 lbs really is a lot if it is "long term" weight. Hell, losing 5.6 "real" pounds in a month is faster than I can usually do (see signature).

But somehow, weight gained on a binge just doesn't seem to count as much. Everyone will say that's because it's water, and they are probably right, but this isn't quite a sufficient explanation.

That is, I know if I eat 200 calories a day over maintenance for 150 days, I'll gain 10 pounds and this 10 pounds will be hard to get off. But if I eat an extra 2000 calories a day for 15 days, it seems whatever weight I gain (probably also 10 pounds) will come off much quicker. Like it didn't get a chance to settle in. Again, I find this puzzling but true.

[th3pwn3r]

Hah! But one thing is somewhat puzzling. 5.6 lbs really is a lot if it is "long term" weight. Hell, losing 5.6 "real" pounds in a month is faster than I can usually do (see signature).

But somehow, weight gained on a binge just doesn't seem to count as much. Everyone will say that's because it's water, and they are probably right, but this isn't quite a sufficient explanation.

That is, I know if I eat 200 calories a day over maintenance for 150 days, I'll gain 10 pounds and this 10 pounds will be hard to get off. But if I eat an extra 2000 calories a day for 15 days, it seems whatever weight I gain (probably also 10 pounds) will come off much quicker. Like it didn't get a chance to settle in. Again, I find this puzzling but true.

You're not really making sense. If you add fat mass to your frame it doesn't matter if you add it slow or fast. Weight is a completely different story.

[older2533]

You're not really making sense. If you add fat mass to your frame it doesn't matter if you add it slow or fast. Weight is a completely different story.

I'll try to make more sense. Here's a thought experiment. Take a given amount of excess food, say 35,000 calories worth of candy bars. Two cases. 1) You eat this extra 35,000 calories evenly over six months. 2) You eat this extra 35,000 calories worth of candy bars all in the last 2 weeks of this six month period. That is, in both cases, you eat exactly the same food, other than these extra candy bars, every day for the six month period. In both cases, therefore, you've eaten the same total amount of food over the six months since the only difference is when the candy bars are eaten.

My contention is that in case 2, whatever weight you gain will be easier to lose. Again, this just seems to be the case with me and binges. I have no other evidence.

[th3pwn3r]

I'll try to make more sense. Here's a thought experiment. Take a given amount of excess food, say 35,000 calories worth of candy bars. Two cases. 1) You eat this extra 35,000 calories evenly over six months. 2) You eat this extra 35,000 calories worth of candy bars all in the last 2 weeks of this six month period. That is, in both cases, you eat exactly the same food, other than these extra candy bars, every day for the six month period. In both cases, therefore, you've eaten the same total amount of food over the six months since the only difference is when the candy bars are eaten.

My contention is that in case 2, whatever weight you gain will be easier to lose. Again, this just seems to be the case with me and binges. I have no other evidence.

So you're saying 10 pounds of slowly gained fat is harder to lose than 10 pounds of quickly gained fat. It makes no sense, I think you're getting confused by water weight and fat.

[wave_length]

I missed the jokes/sarcasm.. fail. I'll stop posting srs biz late at night lol

Don't worry bro, it's probably just the booze.

[wave_length]

Well i'm back! No u guys didn't get rid of me!

Japan was a fukin riot n a half ppl!

I don't want to get on the scale coz I feel n look like a slob, hahaha, when in rome and rome being holidays have fun as you only live once. There is nothing else that I see in the future that can stop or hold me back now... It's just work, gym, diet & uni from here, no more holidays planned, xmas is all I can think of and thats just a few days break anyhow.

Hit the gym up from my weights this afternoon, man that kicked my ass and I felt good! I'm dropping the crazy cardio routine as the gym should be part of life not life being part of my routine/gym. I'm just gonna eat less.

It's going to be interesting to see where i'm at in a month, I hope back to where I left off before my 4 week alcohol bender, haha...

Anything new happed while I was gone ppl?

Good to have you back man!

[wave_length]

I'll try to make more sense. Here's a thought experiment. Take a given amount of excess food, say 35,000 calories worth of candy bars. Two cases. 1) You eat this extra 35,000 calories evenly over six months. 2) You eat this extra 35,000 calories worth of candy bars all in the last 2 weeks of this six month period. That is, in both cases, you eat exactly the same food, other than these extra candy bars, every day for the six month period. In both cases, therefore, you've eaten the same total amount of food over the six months since the only difference is when the candy bars are eaten.

My contention is that in case 2, whatever weight you gain will be easier to lose. Again, this just seems to be the case with me and binges. I have no other evidence.

The only difference I can think of is that you will maybe not be able to digest all of the stuff if you eat it in that short amount of time.

[hankst]

Another thought experiment:

I did some more research on my ABCDE-thingie I've got going on, and it got ripped apart completely by Lyle McDonald and some other people. The way it was originally described in the article (a summary can be found here: http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/...xercise-abcde/ ) leaves you weaker and fatter in the end.

Good thing is: I did not intend to follow the original article (which dictated to cut @ low weight & high reps at a ridic. deficite while adding ****loads of cardio and to bulk @ a surplus of more than 1500 kcal...) because even I could see the numbers were too extreme to work. I still wanted to try out the whole 2-week-cycle-thing and see how my hormones respond.

I'd say I have another 3-5 kg of fat to lose, so I adapated the numbers for my needs:

I cut for 2 weeks @ 1600 kcal (no cardio) and lost a serious amount of fat while preserving all (or at least most) of my muscle, I didn't notice any strength loss (which is awesome).
Now I am at the end of the first week (today is day 7) of my two weeks bulking phase and eat 3000 kcal a day. I have gained some weight during the last few days (water, food in my system, maybe some fat, maybe some muscle, what do I know), but I didn't gain lots of strength (or at least I think so; my last workout was crap, but that could have just been because I changed gyms or had a ****ty day in general) - I hope that changes.

Summary:
Maintenance: 2500 kcal
2 weeks cutting @ 1600 kcal -> 900 kcal deficite * 14 days = 12.600 kcal
2 weeks bulking @ 3000 kcal -> 500 kcal surplus * 14 days = 7000 kcal

So, all in all: 5600 kcal deficite over the span of a month, BUT: if I can hold on to all my muscle during the cut phase (which I'm sure I can), I should be able to put on at least some muscle and lose fat in a span of 4 weeks.

Theoretically it should work out this way - what are your opinions?

I keep a very detailed log (waist, weight, strength), count all my calories, don't cheat, don't drink any alcohol (because it may mess with my hormones - a thing I really don't need during this experiment), I'll keep you posted.

[wave_length]

^^^ Well you know my opinion: as long as you don't go to extremes, the method you use for getting from A to B doesn't matter. To be more elaborate (not specifically directed towards you):

Most people think that because they don't see massive changes in appearance over a short period of time, the answer must be what's called "fulking" by Alan Aragon (fat bulking). While they are in a huge surplus, they believe to gain massive amounts of muscle when in fact the added fat just makes them appear bigger. Then, when they cut, they wonder why it takes so long to get lean, and worry about having lost all the precious muscle when in fact there wasn't really that much there in the first place.

In the end, whether you choose "fulking" and cutting, mini bulk and cuts, very slow bulking, or recomping at target weight doesn't matter in the long run.

[hankst]

Yep, that's what I also think - usually.
But in this case, another factor comes into play: hormonal changes. The rapid transitions from cutting to bulking without any time between should (!) make some difference, according to the studies cited in the original article. I'm really excited to find out myself (the hard way ).

[wave_length]

Yep, that's what I also think - usually.
But in this case, another factor comes into play: hormonal changes. The rapid transitions from cutting to bulking without any time between should (!) make some difference, according to the studies cited in the original article. I'm really excited to find out myself (the hard way ).

Maybe it does, I doubt the difference is that big though. Very interested in your results!

[older2533]

So you're saying 10 pounds of slowly gained fat is harder to lose than 10 pounds of quickly gained fat. It makes no sense, I think you're getting confused by water weight and fat.

th3pwn3r,

I was very careful NOT to write that in both cases you gained ten pounds of fat. Instead, I wrote that in both cases you eat the same amount of calories, but in the first case spread out and in the second case in a binge.

I believe that wave probably has the explanation. The body may not be as good at processing binges as it is at processing steady intakes and, at least to some extent, just poops them out.

[th3pwn3r]

th3pwn3r,

I was very careful NOT to write that in both cases you gained ten pounds of fat. Instead, I wrote that in both cases you eat the same amount of calories, but in the first case spread out and in the second case in a binge.

I believe that wave probably has the explanation. The body may not be as good at processing binges as it is at processing steady intakes and, at least to some extent, just poops them out.

Well, I think Wave is wrong there Have you ever looked at the threads where competitors go on binges for days? They definitely gain a lot of body fat and it definitely isn't lost easily. Either way, does any of this matter? Of course not. The point is simply moot. None of us should be gaining too much fat unless we're clean bulking and if that's the case it isn't a clean bulk.

[th3pwn3r]

Yep, that's what I also think - usually.
But in this case, another factor comes into play: hormonal changes. The rapid transitions from cutting to bulking without any time between should (!) make some difference, according to the studies cited in the original article. I'm really excited to find out myself (the hard way ).

You don't really want to go from a cut right into a bulk because of the possibility of a starvation response and then you're taking in far too many calories which will cause some fat gain BUT assuming you increase intake accordingly it shouldn't matter. However, I believe you need to take the proper amount of time and go through the process of trial and error to take note of progress when cutting OR bulking.

[wave_length]

Well, I think Wave is wrong there Have you ever looked at the threads where competitors go on binges for days? They definitely gain a lot of body fat and it definitely isn't lost easily. Either way, does any of this matter? Of course not. The point is simply moot. None of us should be gaining too much fat unless we're clean bulking and if that's the case it isn't a clean bulk.

Well I said that's what could be the case, you would probably feel sick though.

You don't really want to go from a cut right into a bulk because of the possibility of a starvation response and then you're taking in far too many calories which will cause some fat gain BUT assuming you increase intake accordingly it shouldn't matter. However, I believe you need to take the proper amount of time and go through the process of trial and error to take note of progress when cutting OR bulking.

This is where I would disagree, I don't think it really matters, the body adapts quickly IMO.

[th3pwn3r]

Well I said that's what could be the case, you would probably feel sick though.



This is where I would disagree, I don't think it really matters, the body adapts quickly IMO.

And from personal experience of going on a cut and then bulking I'd continue to disagree with you. I gained fat at an extreme rate, pretty bad, worst dirty bulk ever. This is why I'd adjust slowly from this point on instead of going from a caloric intake of xxxx to a caloric intake of XXXX.

[wave_length]

And from personal experience of going on a cut and then bulking I'd continue to disagree with you. I gained fat at an extreme rate, pretty bad, worst dirty bulk ever. This is why I'd adjust slowly from this point on instead of going from a caloric intake of xxxx to a caloric intake of XXXX.

Well, different experiences there, no problem.

[hankst]

In http://musclemedia.com/training/abcde/v58_abc1.asp the author talks about a span of 12 days in which the body completely adapts to changes..

(that's the reason the whole abcde-stuff should work; I'm a little doubtful after reading all the negative response to the diet on the web; I'm still going through two - modified - cycles; worst thing that could happen to me: 2 months "wasted" with suboptimal fat loss and suboptimal strength gains)

Edit:
I am in Linz atm and don't have my tape with me. Haven't measured my waist for the last 6 days; I am really looking forward to that on Monday / Tuesday when I'm back in Vienna.
I have gone up to 80.4 kg, btw (up from glycogen, food and water depleted 78.x kg last Sunday morning). I can't really say how much of that is fat, water, food in my system, glycogen or muscle, though.

[th3pwn3r]

Well, different experiences there, no problem.

Don't lie to me Wave! There's a problem and it involved me getting fat because of a straight switch from cut to bulk WITHOUT being careful about it. The reason couldn't be because I was simply eating too much right? Mmmmmm Ferrero Rocher chocolates.

In http://musclemedia.com/training/abcde/v58_abc1.asp the author talks about a span of 12 days in which the body completely adapts to changes..

(that's the reason the whole abcde-stuff should work; I'm a little doubtful after reading all the negative response to the diet on the web; I'm still going through two - modified - cycles; worst thing that could happen to me: 2 months "wasted" with suboptimal fat loss and suboptimal strength gains)

Edit:
I am in Linz atm and don't have my tape with me. Haven't measured my waist for the last 6 days; I am really looking forward to that on Monday / Tuesday when I'm back in Vienna.
I have gone up to 80.4 kg, btw (up from glycogen, food and water depleted 78.x kg last Sunday morning). I can't really say how much of that is fat, water, food in my system, glycogen or muscle, though.

2 months wasted sounds terrible =/ Oh well, you be the guinea pig and let me know how it works out for ya. I'm done experimenting with my body haha.

[hankst]

2 months wasted sounds terrible =/ Oh well, you be the guinea pig and let me know how it works out for ya. I'm done experimenting with my body haha.

Yeah well it's not that they would be wasted completely, that came out wrong. Those 2 months still contain 1 month of cutting at a 900 kcal deficite and 1 month of bulking at a 500 kcal surplus. Even if the experiment as such fails (no noticeable hormonal benefits) I will be in a different position. Don't worry .

Oh, and: I'll never be done experimenting. There are always new and exciting things to try.

Btw: I am going to switch careers! The last few months really changed my view on nutrition and aesthetics; I am going to pick up nutritional science next semester and aim for a master's degree in the long run (while still finishing my bachelor @ communication science to earn some money ).

[wave_length]

Don't lie to me Wave! There's a problem and it involved me getting fat because of a straight switch from cut to bulk WITHOUT being careful about it. The reason couldn't be because I was simply eating too much right? Mmmmmm Ferrero Rocher chocolates.

I didn't say anything!















Ferrero Rocher, huh?