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Thread: squats
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06-14-2011, 03:03 AM #31
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06-14-2011, 03:15 AM #32
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06-14-2011, 03:36 AM #33
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06-14-2011, 03:50 AM #34
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06-14-2011, 04:01 AM #35
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06-14-2011, 04:02 AM #36
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06-14-2011, 04:03 AM #37
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06-14-2011, 05:37 AM #38
Some good reading on box squats, which I believe is a great way to learn how to squat.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/box-squat.htmBeing a real lifter is not about a number, or a medal, or somebody else telling you that you are a real lifter. It is about commitment to the iron and strength of purpose.
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06-14-2011, 07:18 AM #39
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06-14-2011, 08:12 AM #40
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06-14-2011, 08:43 AM #41
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06-14-2011, 10:41 AM #42
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06-14-2011, 01:21 PM #43
Had my coach read the article, he is much more experienced in this then me and wanted his input.
Quoted paragraphs are from the article.
"The problem I have with box squats is that their application is limited to powerlifting. The reason being is the goal of powerlifting is to lift the highest amount of weight for the shortest amount of distance within the rules. Essentially in the box squat, your shins don't travel forward. Now I don't know of any sport where the shins don't travel forward for propulsion. So the mechanics of the box squat aren't found in sport."
No one squats with a bar on their back in most sports other than powerlifting either. While the recruitment pattern is different, that is all that it is: different. This does not make it useless.
"Also, any sort of restricted movement pattern tends to change soft tissue integrity. One thing you'll find with people who do a lot of box squats is that they're abnormally tight in the piriformis muscle, for example. In sports where you have to change direction a lot, the box squat will actually decrease your power because you won't be able to use those muscles efficiently."
There is zero evidence to support this. Simmons is a consultant for at least two pro football teams, both of which use box squats in their training. They would drop them in a heartbeat if they slowed them down.
"Finally, most of the athletes I have are highly paid. There's a risk when doing box squats of the athlete bouncing on the box due to lack of concentration. The trauma that can result on the sacral vertebraes could be tremendous. There are just better alternatives. If you're a powerlifter, they're great. If you're any other type of athlete, stay away from the box squat."
Increase in compressive force is easier on the spine than the shearing force normally presented when squatting. Also, if someone cannot concentrate for the second it takes to sit on a box, they ****ing fail as an athlete. This is a terrible excuse not to do them.Being a real lifter is not about a number, or a medal, or somebody else telling you that you are a real lifter. It is about commitment to the iron and strength of purpose.
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06-14-2011, 01:30 PM #44
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06-14-2011, 02:23 PM #45
Well, send it to poliquin. You don't have to convince me, you wanted an article. :P
I do notice a difference in my assessments prior to and after box squatting 2x a week for about 5-6 months straight (and yes, it's the same 20 tests, and no, I didn't make them up myself. And yes, I wish I had done those assessments when I started my first WSB stretch);This is why I am inclined to think he used his training observations when coming to this statement. Because I notice the same thing going on. I could be wrong, though. In all fairness, I use the jumpstretch bands while box squatting, and I have not enough experience to determine sufficiently if it is the box squat's fault, or the bands I'm using. Nevertheless, I seem to do fine on the bonuslifts and max effort without bands. :S
And the concentration part is exactly why I don't think it is a great way to teach beginners to box squat. Most beginners are not high class athletes. Furthermore, do we know what those football teams do for soft tissue (p)rehab? I'm devoting time daily to counter the stiffness. I am pretty much sure those guys have a few people on board to keep them flexible and mobile. Unlike the average trainee in the average gym. This is who we were talking about. I also noticed most strength coaches I checked out, emphasize that they use the box squat *among others*, his final comment on bodybuilders etc using them sparingly makes me wonder: could it be that we are talking about structural vs. sparing use? I certainly tend to think so.
I also think he doesn't call box squatting useless, but rather chooses other options. But I understand we see things very differently, and I think it is a good thing to be open to other readings or opinions, blablabla..
To top it all off, I'll link to a box squat article by Dave Tate. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...om_head_to_toe
And i'll even throw in an Eric Cressey quote, because I don't think we're that far apart in opinions.
"Second, box squats are one tool in your toolbox; we use them in addition to a lot of other lower extremity exercises. <...> Nobody ever criticized chin-ups because they don’t target the gastrocnemius – but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t useful for what they’re intended."Last edited by Euqinom; 06-14-2011 at 03:06 PM.
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06-14-2011, 03:38 PM #46
No there's really not, people make things a lot more complicated then they are
Agree that they are not the end-all be-all, however, there is zero evidence to support a change in soft tissue structure. And box squatting is also used to teach squatting to athletes in many disciplines to not only teach breaking from the hips should this be desired, but as a tool for teaching proper depth. And box squatting does not need to be done PL'er style, some OL'ers have experimented with box squatting, and this, in fact, where it originated. The original Westside barbell club in Culver City Ca. pioneered box squatting as a training tool, and they were a mix of lifters, including George Frenn, who competed in both OL'ing and PL'ing.
It is safe to say that of course pro teams do everything possible to ensure the mobility of their athletes. Rather than say that this is a reason that they can get away with box squatting, possibly it is a lesson we can all learn from?Being a real lifter is not about a number, or a medal, or somebody else telling you that you are a real lifter. It is about commitment to the iron and strength of purpose.
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06-15-2011, 12:03 AM #47
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06-16-2011, 01:52 AM #48
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06-16-2011, 01:55 AM #49
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06-16-2011, 06:02 PM #50
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06-16-2011, 06:28 PM #51
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06-17-2011, 07:54 AM #52
Kewl!
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06-17-2011, 10:16 AM #53
Oh, I'm glad! Check out Youtube for some variations, too. Like squat with a press at end -- so just do your squat then press the bar all the way up. That'll give you even more of a workout.
Another thing you can do with the barbell in same spot, but reduce the weight way down!, is anti-rotation exercises. Good for core.
I know that's got nothing to do with squats, but since you've got the bar in position anyway, you might wanna give it a shot.
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06-17-2011, 12:16 PM #54
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Landmines are a killer core exercise when you rotate your body and pivot your feet to bring the bar down to your shin and back up and down to the other side. You'll have to flex your core really hard to bring the bar back up.
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06-17-2011, 04:25 PM #55
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06-17-2011, 04:27 PM #56
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06-17-2011, 04:36 PM #57
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06-18-2011, 07:06 AM #58
hmm... not sure what you mean here. Landmines are in the youtube video above, but KimValentine is talking about a variation on those where your body is kind of getting into the whole swing of it (Lol - she describes it much better) which you can also find on youtube. It has nothing to do with squats ... I just threw it out there because the barbell is in the same position - one end wedged into a corner somewhere.
*BTW ladies-how the hell do I quote multiple peoples messages in one single reply? there only seems to be a tab to multi-quote within 1 message?
Practice it, hit preview post to see if it worked, and then just back out without submitting reply.
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06-18-2011, 01:15 PM #59
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06-18-2011, 04:25 PM #60
I was thinking of the standard lumber jack exercise where it's like you're chopping wood on the ground or 'woodchops'-you know the ab exercise?
Since then I've done a few Lumberjack squats and in the process discovered(I think!) what Kim was referring to as 'landmines'....they feel GREAT in the obliques and practically all over the core! and not bad on the back at all. Thanks KIM! xx
and thanks THEDOGDIDIT-I'll keep trying with the replies.
BTW ladies.....a nice little addition to the LUMBERJACK SQUAT I discovered is to go up on your toes when you bring the barbell up to the top of the movement-working your calves aswell! (*damn I love this exercise*)Last edited by mybodybliss; 06-19-2011 at 05:37 PM.
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