Hitting macros. Why are people so obsessed with "clean" foods.

[WonderPug]

I eat mostly "clean foods" do to the fact I like to eat volume, so for satiety purposes, I eat mostly "clean foods" because I can eat more of it.. Just to use an example, a chocolate muffin is around 600 cals, for that same 600 cals I can eat 200g of chicken and a sweet potato with natural peanut on it and a salad.. But I don't avoid "dirty foods" though, I just eat more "clean foods"

Interesting perspective. So extra virgin olive oil is "dirty" food, in your option? After all, it's much more calorically dense than a muffin and offers lower satiety. The same for nuts.

And, obviously, a chocolate muffin is "dirty", even if all the ingredients are whole and minimally processed, because the name of the food determine if it's "clean" or "dirty".

I see...

[StephSkywalker]

Interesting perspective. So extra virgin olive oil is "dirty" food, in your option? After all, it's much more calorically dense than a muffin and offers lower satiety. The same for nuts.

And, obviously, a chocolate muffin is "dirty", even if all the ingredients are whole and minimally processed, because the name of the food determine if it's "clean" or "dirty".

I see...

Nah, I was just using the words "clean" and "dirty" for lack of a better word.. I maybe should have concentrated on calorie density, but I figured most would know what I was talking about without using strawmen arguments... You know, when choosing a meal most won't say "Hey, I'm hungry, let me have some EVOO".. but some may say "I'm hungry, let me have a muffin".. But speaking for myself, like I stated before, if I were hungry, I prefer the volume of an actual meal, rather than just a muffin for the amount of calories.. That's all I was saying in so many words

[WonderPug]

Nah, I was just using the words "clean" and "dirty" for lack of a better word.. I maybe should have concentrated on calorie density, but I figured most would know what I was talking about without using strawmen arguments... You know, when choosing a meal most won't say "Hey, I'm hungry, let me have some EVOO".. but some may say "I'm hungry, let me have a muffin".. But speaking for myself, like I stated before, if I were hungry, I prefer the volume of an actual meal, rather than just a muffin.. That's all I was saying in so many words

You failed to understand the point of my post.

[naturalguy]

Nah, I was just using the words "clean" and "dirty" for lack of a better word.. I maybe should have concentrated on calorie density, but I figured most would know what I was talking about without using strawmen arguments... You know, when choosing a meal most won't say "Hey, I'm hungry, let me have some EVOO".. but some may say "I'm hungry, let me have a muffin".. But speaking for myself, like I stated before, if I were hungry, I prefer the volume of an actual meal, rather than just a muffin for the amount of calories.. That's all I was saying in so many words

Most people understood what you meant, some people like to take everything literally

[StephSkywalker]

You failed to understand the point of my post.

I can say the same thing about you regarding my initial post.. :-)

[WonderPug]

I can say the same thing about you regarding my initial post.. :-)

Yes, I know exactly what you meant: that the names of the foods you eat determine if they're "good" or "bad" and/or the satiety of a food determines if they're "good" or "bad".

I just disagree with your position.

[Kingthumper]

It seems like in this section more times than not I see people that are obsessed with "non clean" foods, and how they can shove them into their macros..... oh and don't forget to take a pictures of all the sugary cereal you mix with protien powder and call food like a 5 year old would....lulz

Bottom line is, who cares what other people do. The reason IIFIYM got so popular so quick is that we were stuck in this bodybuilding diet dogma for so long that when something else came along that allowed you to eat a little more liberally everyone jumped on the wagon and it became a competition to see how much processed food one could eat.

A little moderation goes a long ways.

I support this post 100%...well said!

[StephSkywalker]

Yes, I know exactly what you meant: that the names of the foods you eat determine if they're "good" or "bad" and/or the satiety of a food determines if they're "good" or "bad".

I just disagree with your position.

No.. Thats not what I meant... I don't believe in the terms "good" or "bad" in the terms of food.. I used terms like clean and dirty for lack of a better word at the time.. I don't believe satiety determines whether a food is "good" or "bad"... my point more so was that neither a muffin or a full meal with the same caloric density is not necessarily bad or a good, but what would be more satisfying to me at that moment.. If I had to choose one, I would choose the full meal because of satiety reasons.. not because I feel the muffin is bad..

To break it down even more, lets say I was on a cut, and only had 600 cals left for the day.. And I was hungry and had to choose between a chocolate muffin and a full meal for the same calorie density, I would choose the full meal because of satiety reasons.. Do you see what I am attempting to articulate now? I know what you are trying to get at Wonderpug, I respect your opinion on this site and you've helped a lot of people on this site, including myself but being a d**k helps no one.. And I know you know where I was going with my initial post..

[WonderPug]

^^^ So why not simply say there are advantages to selecting filling foods when on a cut, rather than using meaningless metaphor like "clean" food?

That way, everyone will know what you mean and newbies will not be given the wrong impression that some foods are "good" or "clean" and other foods are "bad" or "dirty".

[jimsmith9999]

If you eat two 118g bananas and one 145g avocado, you'll be getting almost the calorie/macro-equivalent of a 100g maltesers sack.

However, having the bananas & avocados will give you a decent amount of fiber, vitamin C & other nutrients, while the maltesers gives you nothing (maybe some chemicals). Plus the naturals weigh 381g which is more satisfying than 100g.

Fiber & Vitamin C are very good for your health, especially if they're coming from natural sources, unlike the chemicals that the maltesers sack provides. If I had to chose between the 2 options, I'll go for the naturals without a single doubt.

Context within the diet is key here - it really depends if you've covered your micro's from other sources or not. If you haven't, then the banana and avocado are the better choice. If you have, then it comes down to personal preference.

People are giving too much importance to their bodies and cut muscles, without looking much at the health aspect of it. I am not aware of any scientific evidence that compares nutrient-dense natural foods to nutrient-free processed food because the results will be obvious and the researchers won't waste their time & money trying to back up such non-sense claims.

Agreed. More often that not by young guys that feel still feel invincible. My perspectives on such things changed in my thirties, particularly when I became a dad.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying something you like with moderation, maybe a pizza or a dessert, that fits your macros, but comparing nutrient-dense natural foods to a nutrient-free processed food is outside the equation.

That's the whole point of IIFYM - at least as it was initially. Eat a diet composed of mainly nutrient dense, healthy, whole unprocessed foods, and enjoy a bit of the stuff you like, in moderation. Not eat crap all day and still hit your macros. That's the bastard child it has become.

[StephSkywalker]

^^^ So why not simply say there are advantages to selecting filling foods when on a cut, rather than using meaningless metaphor like "clean" food?

That way, everyone will know what you mean and newbies will not be given the wrong impression that some foods are "good" or "clean" and other foods are "bad" or "dirty".

Okay, I agree with you.. Should have used better terms when I know better.. repped if not on spread..

[darkcloudcover]

Context within the diet is key here - it really depends if you've covered your micro's from other sources or not. If you haven't, then the banana and avocado are the better choice. If you have, then it comes down to personal preference.

Agree here, quite logical, but the OP is disregarding the micros and even thinking about comparing nutrient-dense to nutrient-free foods (and asking for a scientific back-up!).

That's why I isolated my example to a single meal for him to understand the difference, maybe he starts taking them into consideration. And yes, the global view that you noted is quite as important.

Agreed. More often that not by young guys that feel still feel invincible. My perspectives on such things changed in my thirties, particularly when I became a dad.

Good job! The OP should understand that his health is more important than having a good looking body.

That's the whole point of IIFYM - at least as it was initially. Eat a diet composed of mainly nutrient dense, healthy, whole unprocessed foods, and enjoy a bit of the stuff you like, in moderation. Not eat crap all day and still hit your macros. That's the bastard child it has become.

That's what I was trying to get at.


Your post filled the gaps of my post, hope the OP will read those and update his information. Critically important for his health!

[escobarstatus]

Assuming you get the same amount of proteins/fats/carbohydrates in a day, what is the difference between eating processed "dirty" foods and "clean" foods. Nutrients? What difference does that make? Will I feel more energy throughout the day? Will I grow taller? Will my hair look healthier? Is there any scientific evidence backing up any claims you might argue before you even consider proposing them?

perhaps people are concerned with their health....life is bigger than body building....nobody can argue that McDonald's is as healthy as brown rice & chicken just because your hitting your macros with fast food......

[RunAndPunch]

Personally I avoid dirty foods such as potato chips and soda because almost every time I eat a few hundred calories of potato chips, I start feeling sick and nauseous. Plus it couldn't hurt to avoid dirty foods altogether anyway.

[WonderPug]

perhaps people are concerned with their health....life is bigger than body building....nobody can argue that McDonald's is as healthy as brown rice & chicken just because your hitting your macros with fast food......

Ironically, if you composed your diet exclusively from brown rice & chicken you would suffer from malnutrition rather rapidly. However, it's possible to compose your diet exclusively from foods sold at McDonalds and not suffer from malnutrition.

Food for thought.

[BeingPaid]

Ironically, if you composed your diet exclusively from brown rice & chicken you would suffer from malnutrition rather rapidly. However, it's possible to compose your diet exclusively from foods sold at McDonalds and not suffer from malnutrition.

Food for thought.

I love this lol. repping still on refresh

[naturalguy]

perhaps people are concerned with their health....life is bigger than body building....nobody can argue that McDonald's is as healthy as brown rice & chicken just because your hitting your macros with fast food......

Exactly, health is very important and often pushed aside here to prove a point about cals in vs out and "macros brah"

[tom626]

Didn't read the whole thread but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents...

For me the biggest issue by far is satiety. I have a ravenous appetite. In my experience, the most satiating foods tend to also be the foods traditionally labeled as "clean". I've found that unless the majority of my diet is composed of these foods (even while bulking), I wind up going to bed hungry, which I find to be damn near unbearable. Maybe others are better at tolerating hunger, but for me it's just not worth it.

That's not to say I don't manage to fit in the occasional calorically dense treat, but I've found I really need to keep this practice to a minimum in order to feel satisfied at the end of the day.

[WonderPug]

Exactly, health is very important and often pushed aside here to prove a point about cals in vs out and "macros brah"

I strongly agree.

We should all advocate that the preferable diet, from health perspective, is one composed in the vast majority from whole and minimally processed foods where micro/macronutrient sufficiency is met and, of course, in such a case, there's absolutely no reason for individuals to take any supplements.

[J.Thomas]

I typically go for "clean" foods because majority are usually lower in calorie as apposed to "dirty" foods.
Lower in calories means i can eat more

[rand18m]

perhaps people are concerned with their health....life is bigger than body building....nobody can argue that McDonald's is as healthy as brown rice & chicken just because your hitting your macros with fast food......

Well perhaps we should examine the nutrition data on the foods you just mentioned. For McDonalds I'll pick the venerable Big Mac!

Calories......Fat.......Protein.......Carb......Fi ber.......Cholesterol......Vit A.......Vit C.......Calcium........Iron

Big Mac

550............29..........25............46....... ..3...............75...............4%DV.......2%.. .......25%..........25%


Chicken Breast--1/2 breast

130.............1...........27............0....... ...0...............68.................0........... ..2............1..............5

Brown Rice 1cup long grain cooked

216.............2...........5............45....... ...4...............0...................0.......... ...0............2..............5


Now you look those over, tell me which food comparing the Big Mac to a chicken breast and 1 cup of brown rice is a more complete meal??

Do you now see the silliness in labeling foods by what you thinkg you know about a particular food or food group?

You are engaging in stereotyping food based on what you hear anecdotally!

[troya234]

My main reason is that I can't limit myself very well when I'm eating bad foods, I find it difficult to eat just 1 or 2 slices of pizza etc.

[alexb650]

I think that for most people it's more of a mindset. They've committed themselves to being healthy and so they eat what they believe is a healthy option.

Personally, I eat fairly clean when cutting but that's because I try to eat foods that keep me satisfied longer. For example, I will stay full a lot longer from 1,000 cals of chicken breast vs 1,000 cals of pizza. On a bulk it's different since I can fill in my extra cals with anything I want...but that just goes back to IIFM

[rmwing]

Because they would rather listen to the media's pseudo science then real science

[cr1jhue1]

Honestly in my opinion it comes down to execution, focus, determination. Chances are if you are eating dirty foods it shows a lack of discipline in your training. If I go to taco johns there is no way I'm going to have them give me a macro break down of my potatoe oles. Where as if I measure one cup of oats I know it has ONE ingredient and 300 cals. Training and good nutrition go hand and hand and each one holds you accountable for your results. That's it.

[Mattash2g]

The reason why the pros meticulously prepare their chicken breasts and vegetables etc for the days ahead is because they NEED to stay healthy. Without all those nutrients, do you really think their bodies could handle the copious amounts of roids? I highly doubt it

"Clean" eating is purely for health benefits as far as bodybuilding goes. You can very easily cut eating purely mcdonalds if you wanted, it's just not going to be anywhere near as healthy on a micronutrient level.
I really wish more people weren't absolute sheeps when it comes to their own health. Even doctors and personal trainers, who are regarded highly by the average folk still spout bullchit broscience on a daily basis. People in those sorts of positions should REALLY know what they're talking about. It's amazing how little people know about how their body actually works, which I think is very concerning for the future.

[HunterCML]

Because the HodgeTwins say so, OP.

[Shredthetics]

PWhy are you trying to eat more "clean" foods? For what benefits if any?

This post is so ignorant it's sad.
HEALTH
It's so simple I cannot fathom how people don't understand this.
When clean say they eat "clean" they typically mean they eat HEALTHY.

Go ahead and get your 450 carbs a day from cake & candy.
I'll get mine from veggies, whole grains, fruits ect.

If we looked the same big deal, I'll feel better and live longer.

[hamworld05]

I always thought eating "clean" or "healthy" was done to increase testosterone levels on a bulk or a cut. The idea that a phucking banana would probably preserve muscle mass better than a friggin Smartie. *brb anorexics living on smarties*

[WonderPug]

HEALTH
It's so simple I cannot fathom how people don't understand this.
When clean say they eat "clean" they typically mean they eat HEALTHY.

Even if that's the case, it's not a descriptive term as folks have vastly different definitions of a healthy diet: vegans, vegetarians, low carbers, paleo, raw foods, low fat, high protein, low protein, high carb, lacto vegetarian, pescetarian, kangatarian, lacto-ovo vegetarianism, edenic, etc., etc., etc.

Rather than use ambiguous metaphors that impart no specific, useful information, people could just state what they mean in a clear and descriptive fashion.