Are there minimum time frames for cutting and bulking to be effective?
What I'm considering doing is cut until I'm 80.0 kg, and then start bulking until I'm 82kg and then cut again to 80kg, bulk again etc.
This way I never get smaller or fatter than I want. The bulking would probably last 4 weeks, cutting 2 weeks.
Do you think this would work well?
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10-31-2012, 10:26 AM #1
Are there minimum time frames for cutting and bulking to be effective?
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10-31-2012, 10:43 AM #2
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10-31-2012, 10:56 AM #3
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10-31-2012, 10:57 AM #4
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10-31-2012, 10:59 AM #5
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10-31-2012, 11:02 AM #6
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10-31-2012, 11:05 AM #7
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10-31-2012, 11:08 AM #8
- Join Date: Jul 2006
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Because bulking takes a caloric surplus, if you bulk 4 months on 2 months off 4 months on 2 months off, that's 8 total months of a surplus. If you bulk 12 months straight, that's 4 extra months of a surplus.
There's no 'minimal' time frame. Personal goals and body fat % should dictate the time frame.
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10-31-2012, 11:08 AM #9
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10-31-2012, 11:09 AM #10
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10-31-2012, 11:13 AM #11
As far as I know if one puts on 2 lbs of muscle per month one will also put on 2lbs of fat. Source:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...mass-gain.html
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10-31-2012, 11:16 AM #12
- Join Date: Jul 2006
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http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...potential.html
Again a total noob MAY put on MAX of 2lb of muscle per month. Shooting for the high end of the generic spectrum usually isn't a good bet. Regardless of what you believe to be the genetic max of muscle gaining potential, the fact remains: you will put on muscle at a faster rate (over the long term) if you bulk for (arbitrary number) 12 months, rather than 4 months bulk/2 months cut, over a year.
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10-31-2012, 11:23 AM #13
The person doing 12 months of bulking will end up much fatter, so the comparison isn't equal this way.
To take an equal example:
scenario A: 3 months bulking, 1 month cutting and then repeat two times.
scenario B: 9 months bulking and then 3 months cutting.
Why would A be better than B?
Sure, my response was to michcoth, who seems to believe you can put on muscle without fat if the surplus is small.
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10-31-2012, 11:27 AM #14
- Join Date: Jul 2006
- Location: Kings Park, New York, United States
- Posts: 17,892
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Much fatter? I'm talking about gaining 2lb per month max, regardless of having mini bulk/cut cycles, or one long, slow bulk.
You seem to just want your point of view justified. I will not do that, and I think I've stated my case quite clearly. If you want to do mini bulk/cut cycles have at it. I'm sure others share this viewpoint as well. I hold the stance that a longer, slow bulk will be more efficient (and a wiser choice) than mini cycles.
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10-31-2012, 11:30 AM #15
Yes he will end up fatter, because the comparison isn't equal.
You seem to just want your point of view justified.
I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm asking why is one better than the other. I'm sure someone will be able to tell.
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10-31-2012, 11:30 AM #16
Without getting into shorter bulk/cut cycles based around a timeframe, I do think that basing it on weight, "bulk to 82, cut to 80" would be a bad idea. In units my brain understands, 4 and a half pounds difference. Weight fluctuates so much in the short term due to water retention, un-expelled waste, etc, that you would constantly be over-reacting to current weight. I started eating at maintenance to +100 cals just a couple days ago (from a cut), and already gained 4 pounds, most definitely water and waste, and certainly not time to cut again.
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10-31-2012, 11:32 AM #17
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10-31-2012, 11:32 AM #18
No gains? So you want to cycle at a stasis weight and do a loop?
It's great on paper in practice I would not do it. When I drop to 2500 my cut point it takes me a week or two to move the scale and another two to get 2 lbs off, my experience thus far. I am aware of others that have similar dead zones when bulking or cutting. My mini cut takes a month.
Don't want to waste the time I could be bulking. Not anything wrong with a corrective cut. I don't think most bodies will turn on a dime. For advanced athletes trying to make small gains maybe it works better?The most important aspect of weight training; whether for the athlete, bodybuilder, or average person is to better ones health and ability without injury. - Bill Pearl
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10-31-2012, 11:37 AM #19
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10-31-2012, 11:42 AM #20
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10-31-2012, 12:01 PM #21
I dont think your mini-bulk / cut idea is in any way a downside. Bulk for 6-8 weeks, cut for 2. If you keep it lean you should be able to gain around 2/3 pounds in the bulk and then in the 2 week cut loose around 2/3 pounds. I think that chasing a scale number would be a bad idea but if you stick to 6-8 bulk / 2 week cut, you will end up with good results. A lot of people who lean bulk take this approach.
-On the other side if you bulk for a long period of time you will also have to cut for a long time, this could end in a much greater strength loss. Your best bet is to try both ways and see what you like better.
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10-31-2012, 12:03 PM #22
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10-31-2012, 12:18 PM #23
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10-31-2012, 12:28 PM #24
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10-31-2012, 12:29 PM #25
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10-31-2012, 12:31 PM #26
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10-31-2012, 12:35 PM #27
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10-31-2012, 12:37 PM #28
Personally, my biggest reason for not doing something like this is "mindset." Set a goal and stick with it. You want to be bigger and stronger, then get bigger and stronger...eat+lift+rest, repeat. If you are constantly worried about putting on small amounts of fat (the amount of fat gain should not be that large if you slow bulk properly)...you will just end up spinning your wheels as others have said.
Hundreds of members on these boards who are/were skinny fat or were former fatties had the same concerns about gaining too much fat once starting a bulk but once you get out of that mind set and focus on long term goals, things will go much better for you.
Also, when switching into your bulk, you will likely increase your carb intake and that 2kg gain that you have set for your buffer may get hit in 3-4 days because of water/glycogen stores.
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10-31-2012, 12:37 PM #29
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10-31-2012, 12:43 PM #30
Well I'm now 80kg with 16% fat. I want to look good naked but I don't right now. Too much belly fat. Of course I could cut to 12%, but then I would look small, especially when wearing my clothes.
So I'm considering the several options I have now, which is why I'm asking these questions.
Most likely option now is to continue my cut until about 78kg and then start slowly bulking again.
I'm still interested in my original question: Are there minimum time frames for cutting and bulking to be effective?Last edited by Mrpb; 10-31-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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