***Thread for survivalists, preparedness, G.O.O.D., SHTF, TEOTWAWKI***

[Kulvich]

nainoa touched upon most of these already


nice to know strippers prep too

Thanks for pointing out that Nainoa elaborated on the solar power. I'll look through the backlog. I stumbled upon the tail end of this thread and was a little daunted at how many pages to sift through, but I'll go ahead and start.

Regarding the stripping thing, prepping is how I spend tip money: food storage, gold, silver, ammo.

I learned it from my mom. She came from Vietnam and went through rough times when resources were scarce. She told me about how the communist/socialist government officials came to the house with metal detectors and confiscated 5 ounces of silver that my grandfather hidden away in the storm gutters of the house. The people who survived the best were the ones who could provide their own food and water and other resources. Electricity wasn't really a necessity then. Anyway, she said the best thing to do is take care of yourself and not expect others to do it for you.

Keep in mind to that there are decent tax credits and/or deductions for doing something like this.

For Round numbers sake...

Say you make $30,000 this year... And you spend $10,000 on your commercial solar panel system... I believe what happens is that you claim it and your tax bracket is adjusted down to $20,000.


When it comes to cost savings... And it's been a while since I did the math, (Back when I was looking to go completely off grid on 40 acres up in the wilderness) But with the cost savings on the best and most expensive "Suntracker" system it would take 13 years and 8 month to pay for itself in direct savings... And has an average lifespan of 25 years... (Or at least that's the life of the Warranty)

So the up front cost, essentially buys you 12+ years of free power.

Yes, I have the tax deductions in mind. I plan on keeping the receipts and everything.

Buying the best system does make sense if you have the pool of money to draw from. Plus, that 12+ years of free power also comes with the piece of mind about not worrying about power outages. I'm in a hurricane zone, so the solar energy is an extra bonus when a tree takes out a power line.

For now due to cost limitations, I'm just going to start with a small system for emergencies and expand from there.

Thanks to everyone who had given advice. It's invaluable.

[surf junkie]

Definitely. How many do you recommend?

And what do you think of this kit for starting up: http://www.lowes.com/pd_223946-37277...g|1&facetInfo=

I was thinking of just getting panels, an inverter, and the battery for much cheaper...

If its solely for SHTF and medium/long term power outages, I would NOT purchase a battery bank just yet. They're very expensive. It would be better to just purchase/barter/scavenge for the batteries if the S ever does hit the fan. Car batteries will work fine and there will be a vast supply of unused car batteries after a large SHTF, reference Sandy and Katrina.

Solar is okay for the investment. It's no free lunch. I helped install 20 panels onto my parents roof. It was a housewarming gift from the kids. It pays around $12-$15 per day, and you net around $10.

If you have the spare $15,000 lying around then go for it. Its pretty much $300/month for 25 years, if you maintain them.

[surf junkie]

Yeah I've always been interested in Ham Radio, but I've got enough stuff on my plate and a long enough list as is!

Start with just a small handheld transceiver. They're pretty handy, especially if you find yourself off-road sometimes. You don't need a license to own the equipment, just to TX on the freqs. I am licensed now but don't think it's really necessary. I did just fine for years of lurking/listening on the freqs and making no TXs.

I'd suggest a Yaesu FT-60r. Solid equipment, more reliable than Wouxon or some other budget brands. Nice thing about the FT-60r is the AA compatibility, can use AAs to fuel it in a pinch. I'd pick up an aftermarket antenna, AA battery case and car charger for it as well. Maybe a second main rechargeable battery pack too.

^ That will square away your Communications equipment. If anything goes down that will provide you with valuable information re whats going on many miles away via direct communication. Much further if there's a repeater station in range.

AM/FM radios are kinda useless IMO. Better than nothing, but I'd much rather be able to talk to the person who is doing the broadcast rather than just pray he said what I needed to know.

[Nainoa]

Thanks for pointing out that Nainoa elaborated on the solar power. I'll look through the backlog. I stumbled upon the tail end of this thread and was a little daunted at how many pages to sift through, but I'll go ahead and start.

Regarding the stripping thing, prepping is how I spend tip money: food storage, gold, silver, ammo.

I learned it from my mom. She came from Vietnam and went through rough times when resources were scarce. She told me about how the communist/socialist government officials came to the house with metal detectors and confiscated 5 ounces of silver that my grandfather hidden away in the storm gutters of the house. The people who survived the best were the ones who could provide their own food and water and other resources. Electricity wasn't really a necessity then. Anyway, she said the best thing to do is take care of yourself and not expect others to do it for you.



Yes, I have the tax deductions in mind. I plan on keeping the receipts and everything.

Buying the best system does make sense if you have the pool of money to draw from. Plus, that 12+ years of free power also comes with the piece of mind about not worrying about power outages. I'm in a hurricane zone, so the solar energy is an extra bonus when a tree takes out a power line.

For now due to cost limitations, I'm just going to start with a small system for emergencies and expand from there.

Thanks to everyone who had given advice. It's invaluable.

If you're in a hurricane zone, something you might want to look into on the "Inexpensive" side, particularly if you're looking to buy from a box store are the fan units.

There are some fan units that can create 400 watts of power per hour in a 15MPH wind and only cost $350 up front.

You just have to have a minimum 10MPH wind.

Compare that to a single 10 watt solar panel for $150 and it does the same in 40 hours of trickle charge.

Considering your circumstances, if you're going to go consumer/retail grade equipment, I'd get both...

I'd get a Fan and like 3 solar panels... When things are just starting to blow like a fat chick at a frat party, activate the fan to start building your charge up as fast as possible. And then use the solar panels for trickle charge maintenance when the winds aren't blowing.

[Hartski]

I've thought about putting up a small windmill. Seems like the wind is always blowing here.

[Nainoa]

I've thought about putting up a small windmill. Seems like the wind is always blowing here.

I've often considered like the kind of Farm Windmill that runs water pumps type of thing.

But you were to say go into the electrical section of Menards, you'll see the fans I'm talking about, they are meant to run straight into the batteries of a camper for RV enthusiasts... But you could run them to whatever 12V system you wanted.

[FitStick]

Finished moving into our first house, I'm considering a couple different preps. Previous owners and several owners kept chickens, I wouldn't mind raising them although the GF isn't a fan of eggs or raising chickens. I'm considering raising salmon or tilapia in a small greenhouse with solar panels and maybe even running some electricity from the house out there. GF is more amiable to this idea, plus she'll have a greenhouse area for some gardening.

We have deer that sleep in our backyard a couple nights a week, and bears are fairly typical before hibernation time, dad has lived just up the street for about 10 years now and it's been a consistent problem for them. Thoughts? Advice? Anyone tried it before here? I'm in Colorado Springs, CO, so the weather is fairly mild but it still stays pretty cold for half the year. Don't have a basement, just a crawl space under the house.

[RyouBakua]

aquaponics?

[Nainoa]

Finished moving into our first house, I'm considering a couple different preps. Previous owners and several owners kept chickens, I wouldn't mind raising them although the GF isn't a fan of eggs or raising chickens. I'm considering raising salmon or tilapia in a small greenhouse with solar panels and maybe even running some electricity from the house out there. GF is more amiable to this idea, plus she'll have a greenhouse area for some gardening.

We have deer that sleep in our backyard a couple nights a week, and bears are fairly typical before hibernation time, dad has lived just up the street for about 10 years now and it's been a consistent problem for them. Thoughts? Advice? Anyone tried it before here? I'm in Colorado Springs, CO, so the weather is fairly mild but it still stays pretty cold for half the year. Don't have a basement, just a crawl space under the house.

Well when it comes to the crawl space... I would do some googling about "Root Cellars" and "Conditions to store vegetables long term."

Read... Read... Read some more... Then do a Michaelangelo and sit down there staring at the space for a couple of hours to get a good idea of how you can make the most out of it for over wintering veg.

My guess is it will be relatively easy to keep squash, potatoes and onions. Hell I'd just found some 16 penny nails sideways down there in the north corner/side and hang the bags up out of the reach of mice and such.

When it comes to the green house... Depending on your altitude, Colorado Springs "Average" says that the greenhouse if left unheated will have to be shut down from AT LEAST Christmas till Mid March.

Well... You could probably at the end of Feb start seedlings for cold weather crops like Onion seed and snow peas etc...

If you take the time to figure out how to maintain a rather constant heat in there, then you could use it year round.

What does the garden situation look like there?

[FitStick]

aquaponics?

That's what I was thinking, seems to be the best solution for a closed-loop system. But I've done neither hydroponic planting nor fish raising (except for having a small fishtank when I was younger lol), so I'd have to learn about both.

Well when it comes to the crawl space... I would do some googling about "Root Cellars" and "Conditions to store vegetables long term."

Read... Read... Read some more... Then do a Michaelangelo and sit down there staring at the space for a couple of hours to get a good idea of how you can make the most out of it for over wintering veg.

My guess is it will be relatively easy to keep squash, potatoes and onions. Hell I'd just found some 16 penny nails sideways down there in the north corner/side and hang the bags up out of the reach of mice and such.

When it comes to the green house... Depending on your altitude, Colorado Springs "Average" says that the greenhouse if left unheated will have to be shut down from AT LEAST Christmas till Mid March.

Well... You could probably at the end of Feb start seedlings for cold weather crops like Onion seed and snow peas etc...

If you take the time to figure out how to maintain a rather constant heat in there, then you could use it year round.

What does the garden situation look like there?

Previous owners had a compost pile in the corner of the yard, we're trying to keep it going. There's an 10'x50' garden in the yard, right now it looks like just decorative plants and stuff that the deer like to eat. We'll most likely plant some veggies in place of the other stuff, GF's mom and aunt own a plant nursery out of town so they will probably be a good resource.

Crawl space is a pretty decent size, and I think I have a corner worked out where I can keep the root veggies. Ground down there is bare, not sure if I should line it all with a groundcloth or anything else.

I know you have a pretty sweet greenhouse, most of the stuff I read on the web about greenhouse heating is done with little space heaters. Sounds like a good way to rape myself with electricity bills in the winter, lol.

[Nainoa]

That's what I was thinking, seems to be the best solution for a closed-loop system. But I've done neither hydroponic planting nor fish raising (except for having a small fishtank when I was younger lol), so I'd have to learn about both.



Previous owners had a compost pile in the corner of the yard, we're trying to keep it going. There's an 10'x50' garden in the yard, right now it looks like just decorative plants and stuff that the deer like to eat. We'll most likely plant some veggies in place of the other stuff, GF's mom and aunt own a plant nursery out of town so they will probably be a good resource.

Crawl space is a pretty decent size, and I think I have a corner worked out where I can keep the root veggies. Ground down there is bare, not sure if I should line it all with a groundcloth or anything else.

I know you have a pretty sweet greenhouse, most of the stuff I read on the web about greenhouse heating is done with little space heaters. Sounds like a good way to rape myself with electricity bills in the winter, lol.

Well what I've got now is just a cold frame house set on the southern exposure of the barn... And it only gets used about 10... Maybe 12 weeks out of the year.

Once my finances stabalize (Baby and career stuff) then I'll look at stepping up to something more serious... And/or putting blister windows on the Tack room of the barn and install an insulated floor and ceiling.

When I get to October I bring the over winter herbs (Which live in buckets) and they spend the winter under the grow lights of the indoor greenhouse. The MN winter is just too harsh (Windchills can get to -40)

When it comes to the cold frame... How I heat it in early spring is by using water as a heat sink.

In CO such a thing might be you an month earlier and a month later in the season...

I took a bunch of old 5 gallon buckets... Spray painted them black and filled them with water. Then they go on the floor of the cold frame house facing south and east. During the day they take in heat from the sun... In Late April/Early May the water in them was getting into the 120's

Then at night since frost forms in the lower part of the green house first, it would have to chill all of that sun heated water down.

Using this system it could make it down into the 20's for an overnight low and still be fine out there.. And I only had the cold frame sealed with plastic. (Next little windfall I get I'm going to reskin it with clear polycarbonate.

The record I've had it handle so far was an over night low that got to 18... When that happend the plants on the upper tier on the back shelf near the plastic skin (Farthest away from the water buckets) all got minor frost damage on the leaves closest to the skin.

I think I would have avoided this had I not spent $120 on baby diapers and just invested in the Polycarboate, and just tarped the floor in the house to keep the baby poop off the carpets.



When it comes to the garden... 10X50 is WAY too small. Hell 10X50 is what my strawberries are!

I have just under 5000 square feet of garden (So 10 times yours) and I would need about 2000 more to maintain my family of 3 for 8 months out of the year.

So one way or another you'll have to remove some sod, maybe prune some trees, get a load of black dirt brought in, buy 2 row of rabbit guard fence and expand that thing. Especially if you've got a sweet ass green house to start seedlings in.


When it comes to defending the garden.

With deer, they can jump over a 7 foot fence... And if you put up a 9 foot fence they will still try to jump it, fail, end up knocking it down and then come back in through what they just knocked down. The only 100% way to keep them out with height is an 11 foot fence!

However if you put two low fences in with some stuff planted between, they will be afraid of getting caught in the middle and will stay out.

So when you decide on the size of the new garden, just get 2 rolls of the 40 inch rabbit guard fence and set them up 3 feet apart.

The ideal thing to plant in between them for your own sake is raspberries... Deer DESPISE raspberry thorns.

The only problem is that raspberries are carriers of Early Blight. So if you plant Raspberries in the void, you can't have good tomatoes in the garden (Within 50 feet of the Raspberries)

You could plant gooseberries in there, but in 5-6 years you're shred your hands trying to pick the mature gooseberries.

Something else to keep in mind with deer is that the DESPISE the smell of Rosemary. In MN you can't over winter rosemary outside, so I plant in a 5 gallon bucket and bring it in. Anywhere that you have a mature rosemary bush growing, will repel deer in a 10 foot radius. So a Rosemary at each corner with a gentle breeze blowing towards the forest could be huge

And I think at your temps if propertly covered and insulated rosemary will over winter in CO Springs????

Another problem you run into with regards to animal pests is coons.

Best solution is just just plant a bunch of squash vines at the outter perimeter of your garden. the entire outside of my garden is a small hedge of sugar pumpking, acorn and butternut squash mixed with zucchini. For coons the sense of touch in the front paws is what a dog's sense of smell is, so they HATE the spiny squash vines and just keep moving on...

[RyouBakua]

nice to see Nainoa WOT again

[Nainoa]

nice to see Nainoa WOT again

Well what you need to understand is that it's also my metaphor for the use of Deer Fence.

Call it my artistic expression of the ridiculousness of putting up an 11 foot deer fence when you could just put up Two 40 inch rabbit guard fences 3-4 feet apart.

[RyouBakua]

Well what you need to understand is that it's also my metaphor for the use of Deer Fence.

Call it my artistic expression of the ridiculousness of putting up an 11 foot deer fence when you could just put up Two 40 inch rabbit guard fences 3-4 feet apart.

[Nainoa]

LOL...

Yeah that guy spent his whole life with Gentle Ben, snuggling and eating doughnuts and such... Then the last thing Gentle Ben did the day before they were going to put him down for Hip Displasia was bite down on that guys head and rend it off his skull... Pop it like a juicy berry in his mouth, and they had to remove the brain and skull fragments from the bear's guts the next day so they could have a closed casket funeral for him.



Or something like that.

[RyouBakua]

LOL...

Yeah that guy spent his whole life with Gentle Ben, snuggling and eating doughnuts and such... Then the last thing Gentle Ben did the day before they were going to put him down for Hip Displasia was bite down on that guys head and rend it off his skull... Pop it like a juicy berry in his mouth, and they had to remove the brain and skull fragments from the bear's guts the next day so they could have a closed casket funeral for him.



Or something like that.

wut...

[LAWLER89]

I keep saying I'm finally gonna get around to reading this thread in its entirety and never do.

[Nainoa]

I keep saying I'm finally gonna get around to reading this thread in its entirety and never do.

Geez... you must have missed that post a while back that said there would be a quiz on the morning of July 5th for everyone who posts in this thread, and not answering every questions correctly would result in a mod neg!


I figure a guy could probably read the whole thing in 24 hours.

[HairyScandinavian]

That aquaponics illustration doesn't look right. 1st the ones I've seen keep the system closed to keep skeeters and such out, they usually do this by using large PVC pipes and cutting holes for the plant bases. No need to keep skeeters out of the tank due to the fish will eat the larvae anyway... The Flood tanks is completely pointless unless I'm missing something, you pump directly from the fish tank/container/stock tank, which acts like a sump, then it flows back down in.

[nick911sc]

That aquaponics illustration doesn't look right. 1st the ones I've seen keep the system closed to keep skeeters and such out, they usually do this by using large PVC pipes and cutting holes for the plant bases. No need to keep skeeters out of the tank due to the fish will eat the larvae anyway... The Flood tanks is completely pointless unless I'm missing something, you pump directly from the fish tank/container/stock tank, which acts like a sump, then it flows back down in.

Some people like flood and drain vs constant flow because of the beneficial aeration effects on the roots as well as nitrate level regulation.

[LAWLER89]

What's the store life of low sulfur, highway diesel fuel at the local gas station?

Geez... you must have missed that post a while back that said there would be a quiz on the morning of July 5th for everyone who posts in this thread, and not answering every questions correctly would result in a mod neg!


I figure a guy could probably read the whole thing in 24 hours.

My rep power is OVER 9000!!!

I fear nothing.

[Nainoa]

What's the store life of low sulfur, highway diesel fuel at the local gas station?



My rep power is OVER 9000!!!

I fear nothing.

While I can't tell you off the top of my head... I do know that the climate matters with Diesel even more than gas, because Diesel has gelling issue in the cold (Hell BioDiesel gels at 40F) Modern diesel has conditioners in it that bring that gelling point down... BUT everytime those conditioners apply and essentially have to do their job, there is some degredation in the entire batch.

To put it in a different perspective... I have a dual heating system in my house, one of the backup furnaces is Fuel Oil... Fuel Oil, degrades slower than Diesel. My Fuel Oil Furnace is relatively new (Installed in 2006)... They told me "Every 2 years you should make sure you burn it down to half of the 225 gallon tank... And refill with fresh fuel oil. Otherwise every 3 years you should go with a completely fresh tank."

So even the best diesel in the world can't be better than that ^^^^

Assuming you're willing to take some engine wear and you've got a stash of fuel filters and the like, which will help... I wouldn't trust a stash of diesel beyond 3 years... Just using that metric/logic.

[RyouBakua]

anyone watch that Naked and Afraid survival show


i was proud at the girl from hawaii but that guy was acting pretty douchy

[Nainoa]

anyone watch that Naked and Afraid survival show


i was proud at the girl from hawaii but that guy was acting pretty douchy

Yeah I caught part of it... Right up to the point where they started bickering because he was trying to talk tough while being a pansy. That chick basically carried his ass the whole way because he had some sunburn and pretty much did whatever he wanted.

Of course we don't have any actual statistic on it, but I'm sure 90% of all Stone age people died of sunburn and it wasn't until the invention of modern sunscreen that the human population was able to bloom to it's current outrageous heights.

[FitStick]

anyone watch that Naked and Afraid survival show


i was proud at the girl from hawaii but that guy was acting pretty douchy

Wat, are they actually naked and afraid on this show? Furk I need to get cable.

[Nainoa]

Wat, are they actually naked and afraid on this show? Furk I need to get cable.

It's kind of a hard show to try to watch the whole way through.

Basically they take a man and a woman, who are strangers, who have some sort of survivalist bent or training and they strip them naked and drop them off somewhere in the wild to survive for two or three weeks until they get picked up.

They have nothing to start with except one tool and blurry boxes over their sexy bits... So all you really get to see is some girl butt crack, but the one last night was the only decent one so far. All the others have been dirty hairy hippie chicks.

They kind of play out the same... The girl plays it safe, the guy drinks questionable water... They squabble about division of labor... Somewhere in there they run from an animal, or are spooked by something... The guy gets the trotts from drinking the questionable water and they are rescued.

[RyouBakua]

Yeah I caught part of it... Right up to the point where they started bickering because he was trying to talk tough while being a pansy. That chick basically carried his ass the whole way because he had some sunburn and pretty much did whatever he wanted.

was still proud

It's kind of a hard show to try to watch the whole way through.

Basically they take a man and a woman, who are strangers, who have some sort of survivalist bent or training and they strip them naked and drop them off somewhere in the wild to survive for two or three weeks until they get picked up.

They have nothing to start with except one tool and blurry boxes over their sexy bits... So all you really get to see is some girl butt crack, but the one last night was the only decent one so far. All the others have been dirty hairy hippie chicks.

They kind of play out the same... The girl plays it safe, the guy drinks questionable water... They squabble about division of labor... Somewhere in there they run from an animal, or are spooked by something... The guy gets the trotts from drinking the questionable water and they are rescued.

lold at last part

[RyouBakua]

caught the new ep of naked and afraid

she chose a knife and he chose swim goggles

(he didnt even like the water and didnt want to eat sealife)


all i remember is that it was a week before they ate any meat or had fire


so i believe the 2 best things to have in that situation is a machete and a firestarter


then you work on the basics:

water
shelter
fire
food
clothes/footwear



and that lady got mauled by repeated bug bites

(did they forget about mudbaths)

[HairyScandinavian]

^LmAo swim goggles?

Yes, fire and machete for sure... That one episode the woman brought a little pot to boil water in. I lol'd, she brought the kitchen with her.

anyone watch that Naked and Afraid survival show


i was proud at the girl from hawaii but that guy was acting pretty douchy

Watched that with the wife, was so embarrassed for that douchebag couldn't believe it. At least he dug a big ass hole. She was awesome though.

[RyouBakua]

Watched that with the wife, was so embarrassed for that douchebag couldn't believe it. At least he dug a big ass hole. She was awesome though.

agreed


i would have made magic with that girl