A lot of people on here and just about every article raves about the bro split. A typical bro split would look something like this
Monday-Chest
Tuesday-Back
Wednesday-Legs
Thursday-Shoulders
Friday-Arms
But this isn't optimal. Science is a wonderful thing. Pro Bodybuilders are the supporters of this program and after all they're huge so shouldn't we do what they do? NO! They aren't normal. They are taking synthetic testosterone and many other things. These steroids, and P.E.D's that the Bodybuilders take increase protein synthesis drastically! Protein Synthesis is basically building muscle. This means after they workout their muscles are building for days upon days!
There are countless studies that have shown for non P.E.D taking people that your Testosterone levels, which causes increased protein synthesis, Is only increased for 48 hours after a workout. The levels are drastically increased immediately following a workout and then begin to lower, reaching normal levels 48 hours after a workout. So what does this mean? It means your muscles are done building 48 hours after a workout.
But why am I sore many days later? DOMS! DOMS is a terrible thing. Pretty much when you workout with a bro split you are hitting a muscle hard, too hard. You only need 6-8 sets to stimulate a muscle into growth. But DOMS occurs when you do too much and the sarcolemma (holds the "muscle" content in place) becomes ruptured and the "contents" spill out into other muscle fibers, and this signals pain receptors. Another thought to be cause is a immune response by white blood cells (basophils in particular). But most scientist think it's the Sarcolemma ripping causing painful stimuli.
So why would you want to stimulate your muscles so much that it causes structural damage and real pain? Not soreness, pain! If science has found out that you need 6-8 sets to stimulate a muscle group into growth, and the fact Protein Synthesis levels are back to normal 48 hours late, why not hit a muscle twice a week?
Now if you experience DOMS then it would be wise to rest because your muscles have to be repaired from the structural integrity being compromised. So in a way the "bro split" does take longer for you to recover but that doesn't mean that you are getting more gains, that means your repairing detrimental damage to your muscles.
Now you will get gains doing the "bro split". I've done it and got gains. But these gains were not as good as hitting the muscle group twice a week. If I could have you take anything from this it would be hit those muscle twice a week. Rather if it's a upper/lower or push/pull/legs, let your muscles grow!
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Thread: Bro Split is not optimal!
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01-26-2013, 07:21 PM #1
Bro Split is not optimal!
Chasing the pump
Barbell Squat- 470 1rm
Barbell Bench- 325 1rm
Weighted pullups- 100lbs 4-reps
178lbs, 12% body fat
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01-26-2013, 07:25 PM #2
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01-26-2013, 07:28 PM #3
- Join Date: Jan 2011
- Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States
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- Rep Power: 247
Tldr
Jk
Did Jim stoppani's shortcut to size which would be considered a bro split I guess and saw great gains. However after that I decided to put together my own bro split to try and make better gains and all I got from it was hurt joints after 3 weeks (yes I was eating and sleeping plenty). So OP I will be taking your advice and doing a push/pull/legs soon once I feel fully recovered hopefully in a week :/
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01-26-2013, 07:44 PM #4
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01-26-2013, 07:51 PM #5
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01-26-2013, 07:53 PM #6
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01-26-2013, 08:07 PM #7
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01-26-2013, 08:14 PM #8
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01-26-2013, 08:17 PM #9
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01-27-2013, 08:47 AM #10
You'll get gains with the "bro split" but it's just not going to be the same as push/pull/legs or upper/lower. This whole site is full of "bro spits" and what not, but if you're juicing it's fine and dandy but if not you're missing out on some gains! When I did the bro split for about 6 months I had almost no strength gains, some size gains but not nearly as much as the push/pull/legs.
Chasing the pump
Barbell Squat- 470 1rm
Barbell Bench- 325 1rm
Weighted pullups- 100lbs 4-reps
178lbs, 12% body fat
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01-27-2013, 08:49 PM #11
- Join Date: Jan 2013
- Location: New York, United States
- Age: 43
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- Rep Power: 343
As a lifter progresses through various stages of development, there are going to be certain splits that he/she will see the most benefit from. Absolute beginners will see the best gains from Full body splits for example.
But lets not dismiss the bro split as it has built some pretty decent bodies in commercial gyms and in the professional ranks. But I do agree a higher frequency "mixed" workout is best for the intermediate lifter. Advanced lifters need MUCH more volume therefore even natty bodybuilders go with the 1x bro-split, and it delivers.
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01-28-2013, 01:52 PM #12
You will get gains with the bro splits. But why not lift more often, and avoid the DOMS.
I disagree that you need more volume the more advanced you are, you stimulate a muscle by either increasing the weight or increasing the repetitions. Science has proved 6-8 sets is enough to stimulate major muscle groups into growth like the chest and quads.Chasing the pump
Barbell Squat- 470 1rm
Barbell Bench- 325 1rm
Weighted pullups- 100lbs 4-reps
178lbs, 12% body fat
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01-28-2013, 02:20 PM #13
I get what you're saying and it makes sense on paper but for some people a 'bro split' is sometimes ideal out on necessity, I work a pretty physical job and I'm over 200lb, for me personally, more than one or two bodyparts a session is too much for me to recover from, the way I look at it is that a newbie that weighs 150lbs that's moving baby weights is going to be able to train more bodyparts and more often, if I train back by itself I'm probably moving more weight and stimulating more muscle than our hypothetical 150lb noobs back, chest and shoulders combined.
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01-28-2013, 02:36 PM #14
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01-28-2013, 02:44 PM #15
Progression, consistent effort, decent excercise selection, and an appropriate diet is what is important. How you set up your week is more about personal preference, goals, experience, etc; as long as it isn't completely idiotic then most things will work.
As far as most optimal routine goes, thebest place for a lifter to find that out is in the gym through trial and error. He won't find it in in these silly threads where people argue about this stuff over and over."it's likely one of us will have to spend some days alone"
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01-28-2013, 03:22 PM #16
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01-28-2013, 04:12 PM #17
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01-28-2013, 04:18 PM #18
you wonna know why bro, because people look at them FLEX programs and see jay cutler performing 1muscle a day workouts... They dont realise that these guys are juiced into fruits.
its has been shown that hormonaly, fullbody workouts gives the most response. I would rather say its a natural way of training because human, have,never,in,history, sat down on a chair and isolated their biceps.. that could explain why farmer boys often come out stronger when they go competitive in higher classes
yet again, as ive said in another thread it depends on if your going for myofribrillare or sarkoplasmatiske hypertrophy, both result in growth just in two different mechanical ways
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01-28-2013, 04:20 PM #19
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01-28-2013, 04:20 PM #20
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01-28-2013, 05:18 PM #21
- Join Date: Mar 2012
- Location: Oslo, Oslo, Norway
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Guy 2 would be stronger at deadlifts. Guy 1 would probably have a more balanced physique.
Also i think its funny that These science people simple brush off "bro splits" as being only for pro bodybuilders. What about fitness models, amateur bodybuilders? Doing steroids and being pro are 2 different things. Most people who do steroids look nothing like pros. So if i do a cycle should i do a bro split, or do i have to get my pro card first? LolFollows Chestbrah's training routine crew
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01-28-2013, 05:40 PM #22
bro split is a term used by idiots, most of whom are small and weak.
natties who have been training a long time and are advanced can make great progress with such a split. I have. Some may still opt for higher frequency. That works too. The important thing is to have a sound rationale for why you do what you do.
Most people on this site would not benefit from a high volume bp split, as most people here are not that experienced (which is why we see stupid threads like this one in the first place.)Who was this love of yours?
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01-28-2013, 05:42 PM #23
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01-28-2013, 07:30 PM #24
And you would rather deny all science that is right before your eyes. The bro split is just fed to you by muscle magazines including BB.com You are just using bro science if I've ever seen it. I mean C'mon "I had progress on the bro split", again that's a individual example. I also had progress on the bro split but nothing like the upper/lower split. What you don't seem to understand is no matter how hard you work your muscles it takes 48 hours to recover. Get that? Every study says that. And what you don't seem to understand is the bro split causes DOMS, DOMS is structural damage, structural damage is bad, do you understand that? Or has all the bro science got to your head?
Diet is most of it and of course you will get results off just about any program. But why not hit the muscle 2 or 3 times a week if it only takes 48 hours to recover? Doing the bro split is only slowing your gains by ripping apart your sarcoplasm which is associated with soreness and gains but is actually pain and structural damage.
And where you're wrong is almost everyone on this site would benefit more from hitting a muscle 2x or 3x a week because we don't juice. And if the bro split was so much better why do NATURAL ATHLETES hit a muscle 2 or 3 times a week and are bigger than either of us and they are faster, stronger, jump higher, etc, etc. You don't have to destroy a muscle to make it grow, just stimulate it.
You are just arguing with science because you like the bro split more. The bro split is called the bro split for a reason, because only bro's defend it with bro science claiming it's better than 2x or 3x a week despite science and athletes proving otherwise.Chasing the pump
Barbell Squat- 470 1rm
Barbell Bench- 325 1rm
Weighted pullups- 100lbs 4-reps
178lbs, 12% body fat
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01-28-2013, 08:44 PM #25
bro-splits cause DOMS? no **** so does any kind of training untill you adapt to it, and not its isnt structural damage.
you a ****ing idiot bro splits do not rip apart your "sacroplasm" how did you come to the conclusion?
please stop trying to sound smart, im not for or against this argument but it should at least be debated by people who know what there talking about.
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01-28-2013, 11:23 PM #26
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- Location: New Zealand
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I'd say that the person who applies consistent effort by working the same body part when the muscle recovers, rather than waiting for an extra few days, would probably see more gains.
Trial and error is all well and good, but it's no good for someone who has no idea to start. A bro split may work better for some people, but considering that the majority of people would see better gains with a little more frequency, it would make sense to start someone out on that kind of programming, and have them branch out from there.
Just thought I'd let you know that even for bodybuilders who do 'bodybuilding training', myofibrillar hypertrophy is still the bulk of their hypertrophy. They get a little more sarcoplasmic hypertrophy than the guy who does low reps, but it's not actually a huge difference.
For something like training, where more doesn't necessarily equal better, this is a bit of a redundant approach, because you could just as easily say that the guy who works out 3 times a day makes more gains than the guy who works out 3 times a week, using that logic.
OP, volume requirements DO change a little as we advance.'People are gonna remember me as a god forever... Like-like-like Troy, like Chiles heel, I'm a god forever I'll be remembered for thousands of years to come' - Jason Genova
Texas Method Mod: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=171537443&p=1444534723&viewfull=1#post1444534723
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01-29-2013, 12:52 AM #27
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01-29-2013, 02:38 AM #28
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01-29-2013, 05:05 AM #29
You assume much.
I have been training for 15 years. I am natty and have been my entire lifting career. I started off with higher frequency. Over time, based on needs, I increased volume per part per session while decreasing frequency (this is a very common approach.) After 7 yrs of serious training, I started a body part split. I have continued to gain proportional size since that time 8 yrs ago. I've gained over 50 lbs of muscle since I began training. I'm not anything special, but that puts me in pretty select company.
Everything I do has been a result of trial and error and research. I make tweaks as needed to ensure progress. I was not a member of this site at the time I began this type of split, and I was not a regular reader of magazines, so your argument about my reasoning for doing so is incorrect. I am using myself as an example, but there are plenty of other advanced guys using bp splits with success. I am not an anomaly.
Training needs change over time - this is apparently what you don't get. Not entirely your fault, as you're only 20 and probably have very little real world experience to this point. However, this is no excuse for speaking in absolutes with such rigor when you clearly are misinformed about how more advanced people sometimes train.
I've read a lot of studies over the years regarding training as well. It's perfectly fine to do so. What you'll find though, is that studies have flaws just as relying entirely on anecdote does. Use a mix of both. Ultimately you need to experiment on yourself, regardless of where you get your information. There is no universal "best" for everyone, and things change based on experience level, as previously noted.
Here's something else for you to consider regarding your protein synthesis argument:
Have a nice day.Who was this love of yours?
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01-29-2013, 05:06 AM #30
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