There seem to be two opposing views on how much you need to eat to gain muscle :
1) You must eat a calorie surplus to gain muscle.
2) You only need to eat enough calories to get through your workouts comfortably, if you need more calories to build muscle your body will take it from fat.
There seem to be a lot of people for argument number 2 but I can't help worrying that the people for argument 1 are right and I am hampering my progress.
Me:
71kg , 6ft , age 28
I weight train 1 hr 3-4 times a week
I consume 2800cals per day
Protein 1.5grams per kg of bodyweight per day
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07-14-2011, 06:45 AM #1
Do you really need to EAT a calorie surplus to gain muscle?
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07-14-2011, 06:46 AM #2
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07-14-2011, 06:48 AM #3
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07-14-2011, 06:49 AM #4
- Join Date: Jan 2008
- Location: New Hampshire, United States
- Age: 36
- Posts: 7,460
- Rep Power: 15824
The people arguing #2 are usually the people that think they can stay contest lean while adding (substantial) LBM. Is it possible to add muscle without a surplus? Sure. Is it OPTIMAL? Not in the slightest.
Usually it's the younger crowd that believes #2 and lack LBM to begin with.
A 10% surplus is an easy way of guaranteeing success (assuming progressive overload in the gym) - it's not rocket science.Sheiko? My journey to 1,500+ @ 165
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=167881761
Keep On Getting Strong
Best Gym Lifts
475/315/610 @ 165
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07-14-2011, 06:49 AM #5
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07-14-2011, 06:51 AM #6
Everyone is always looking for a workaround to gaining fat while bulking.
My advice: get over it. Bulk at a small surplus for several months and lift, lift, lift. Worry about the little bit of fat you will gain later. The earth won't implode if people gain a bit of fat, and you can bulk without gaining a lot of fat.
The people who fear fat when bulking are the people who stay small. JMO
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07-14-2011, 06:51 AM #7
Actually it's the other way round, from what I gathered.
Meatheads: hurr durr, I lost 40 lbs and put on 20 lbs of pure muscle (when they see a bit more definition)
Theoreticians: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...ng-fat-qa.html
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07-14-2011, 06:52 AM #8
I don't think anyone claims you can gain mass (or any significant amount) on a deficit. However, some do believe eating around maintenance can cause recomp in some, and that a proper deficit can still yield strength gains.
I've seen WP post a percentage that interested me a few weeks back, but I can't find the post and I didn't ask him at the time where he found the number but - I believe he said something about the best percentage of recompositioning is like under 3% or something.
I'm not sure if it was over time, or a specific time frame, or a number he just came up with; perhaps something I just dreampt up? I'm not sure. >3% doesn't sound like a lot but over long periods of time it still sounds like could yield noticeable results.IIFYM - not even once.
www.AlanAragon.com
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07-14-2011, 06:55 AM #9
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07-14-2011, 06:55 AM #10
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07-14-2011, 06:57 AM #11
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07-14-2011, 06:57 AM #12
people with higher bf% can make muscle gains while in a caloric deficit but even then it will only work until the bf% comes down to a certain level. people with an already lower bf% will not make gains in a deficit. eating 200 to 300 hundred a day over maintenance, will be fine for making gains and anything more than that will just be stored as fat.
..............
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
none but ourselves can free our minds
Marcus Garvey
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07-14-2011, 07:06 AM #13
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07-14-2011, 07:08 AM #14
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07-14-2011, 07:13 AM #15
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07-14-2011, 07:14 AM #16
- Join Date: Jan 2008
- Location: New Hampshire, United States
- Age: 36
- Posts: 7,460
- Rep Power: 15824
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07-14-2011, 07:35 AM #17
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07-14-2011, 07:50 AM #18
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07-14-2011, 07:52 AM #19
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07-14-2011, 07:54 AM #20
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07-14-2011, 07:58 AM #21
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07-14-2011, 08:07 AM #22
There is going to be some limit obviously and the process is going to be harder to achieve once your body fat levels are extremely low. However, 1) most people posting on this board are not at competition level body fat and this is not a concern & 2) that was not the question being asked.
If you want this from a more practical point of view, even when you are cutting you should still be trying to train to increase muscle size and strength.Last edited by SumDumGoi; 07-14-2011 at 08:12 AM.
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07-14-2011, 08:09 AM #23
I have posted this before:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=37
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07-14-2011, 08:14 AM #24
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07-14-2011, 08:18 AM #25
There is anecdotal evidence all over Martins site. Like many have said, its certainly not optimal but it makes sense if you think about it. Your body is in a constant state of catabolism/anabolism every day. We know that in general your bodies preferred source of fuel is fat and will generally turn to using muscle only in a severe caloric deficit or lack of protein. If you can manage to have short periods of the day where you are adding muscle perhaps after a 16 hour fast followed by a large overfeeding. It sounds plausible that you could end that day with a net muscle gain and a fat loss.
http://www.leangains.com/2011/05/def...-part-two.htmlMy Reverse Diet Log
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=153750981&p=1077733831#post1077733831
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07-14-2011, 08:19 AM #26
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07-14-2011, 08:21 AM #27
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07-14-2011, 08:25 AM #28
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07-14-2011, 08:36 AM #29
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07-14-2011, 08:47 AM #30
Your constant use of the word "I" indicates that you are extremely self-centered and selfish. The fact that you can't spell "deficit" and use the word "jacked" indicate that you are not very bright which explains why you may only know "a thing or two" about nutrition. Also I doubt you were in a deficit for 2 years. Also, lay off the catnip.
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