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  1. #61
    banned NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Problem with this once great Nation is that we have become so dang superficial. Don’t get me wrong, OP. You look great (no homo), and I’m sure you work hard to achieve the way you look. And although this is Bodybuilding.com, reality is that NOT all trainers / coaches / members of BB.com are bodybuilders.

    Back to my point of being superficial. The mentality “Yeah, brah. It’s all ‘bout looks. It’s 95% looks and 5% performance” is so common in all walks of life and not just fitness. If looking good is your main selling point to attract clients, then more power to you. The best trainers / coaches I’ve seen are the ones who focus on their clients’ goals and help the clients achieve their goals, regardless of personal appearance.

    I would donate my left scrotum to NASA to determine if they can create lifeform in outerspace to have the opportunity to learn from this “fatass trainer.”






    Who is this “fatass” you ask?

    He placed 8th at the Olympics, which is pretty dang good considering the overall placing of the US at the international level is 27th.

    He also was once a top level Competitive Powerlifter before he switched to Weightlifting.



    And hypothetically speaking, if he were to shed all that excess fat I guaran-damn-tee he would look like:

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  2. #62
    Registered User MikeEsp_Fit's Avatar
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    Hi Norwich, I can tell you didn't read all of the posts and arguments in the last 2 pages and I don't blame you one little bit. I'm only talking about your average trainer when I'm saying they should stay in shape. I don't mean bodybuilder, I'm just saying they should look healthy. As for our U.S. power lifter above, he's a power lifter and therefore is in shape for his sport. Any good trainer or fitness enthusiast can tell the difference between a power lifter and someone who doesn't put any effort into their health or appearance.
    I was mostly targeting gym trainers that I see all the time who are overweight and/or very sloppy. I believe as trainers we should practice the healthy lifestyle we teach.

    Also, this is still a great country. True it's seemingly getting worse all the time and I don't see anything bright in our near future, but I wouldn't move my family anywhere else.
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  3. #63
    banned NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MikeEsp_Fit View Post
    Hi Norwich, I can tell you didn't read all of the posts and arguments in the last 2 pages and I don't blame you one little bit. I'm only talking about your average trainer when I'm saying they should stay in shape. I don't mean bodybuilder, I'm just saying they should look healthy. As for our U.S. power lifter above, he's a power lifter and therefore is in shape for his sport. Any good trainer or fitness enthusiast can tell the difference between a power lifter and someone who doesn't put any effort into their health or appearance.
    I was mostly targeting gym trainers that I see all the time who are overweight and/or very sloppy. I believe as trainers we should practice the healthy lifestyle we teach.

    Also, this is still a great country. True it's seemingly getting worse all the time and I don't see anything bright in our near future, but I wouldn't move my family anywhere else.
    Okay. I gotcha. I didn't read the other pages.

    You keep doing what you're doing for yourself and your clients. Good luck.
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  4. #64
    Registered User MikeEsp_Fit's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    Okay. I gotcha. I didn't read the other pages.

    You keep doing what you're doing for yourself and your clients. Good luck.
    Thanks, I'll do that and then some. We can always do more right.
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  5. #65
    American Yakuza adpayne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    Problem with this once great Nation is that we have become so dang superficial.

    Back to my point of being superficial. The mentality “Yeah, brah. It’s all ‘bout looks. It’s 95% looks and 5% performance” is so common in all walks of life and not just fitness.
    I've had my my say, but needed to comment on this.

    If we are so "superficial" as a nation, why is the vast majority of our population overweight, and over half, obese?

    Am I shallow, or vain, for wanting to look good naked?

    Probably.

    But I also like being mistaken for someone 20 years younger than my age. I like being more fit, and stronger, than most of the young guys in my gym. I like not having back problems, and not being on any medications, like most people my age suffer from.

    I'll admit I'm fighting Father Time tooth and nail, and will until I die. And I won't apologize for it either.
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  6. #66
    Registered User Teethatyourfeet's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adpayne View Post
    If we are so "superficial" as a nation, why is the vast majority of our population overweight, and over half, obese?
    Because those same people will want to look like celebrity X before they tell you they want to feel healthy and be healthy. But I totally agree with everything else you said... Part of me loves getting up and seeing the progress I made. That part of me might be too big.
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  7. #67
    Registered User MikeEsp_Fit's Avatar
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    The crazy thing is that people are getting more gym memberships and shopping at healthier markets more than ever but obesity still continues to grow. There are a lot of people that want to eat right and train, they're just not doing it right.
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  8. #68
    It's not the gun, stupid. Ikeman83's Avatar
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    This popped up for me under "new posts", so I thought I'd respond. As someone who has employed a PT, the eyeball test was important to me. You are your own advertising as a PT. If I want to be powerlifter, I want a trainer who looks like a power lifter. If I want to cut my BF%, I want a trainer who looks like he has experience with that. If my wife wants to get slimmer, or get in shape for an event, then she wants a svelte female trainer with a similar body type.

    Obviously, being able to show before and after pictures of your clients is going to demonstrate that you can get these results for your clients, but you've gotta get me to want to look at your portfolio. Also, if you don't have a developed portfolio, then your body is all I have to go off of. Just something to think about.
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  9. #69
    Registered User 1mo's Avatar
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  10. #70
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    Originally Posted by Ikeman83 View Post
    This popped up for me under "new posts", so I thought I'd respond. As someone who has employed a PT, the eyeball test was important to me. You are your own advertising as a PT. If I want to be powerlifter, I want a trainer who looks like a power lifter. If I want to cut my BF%, I want a trainer who looks like he has experience with that. If my wife wants to get slimmer, or get in shape for an event, then she wants a svelte female trainer with a similar body type.

    Obviously, being able to show before and after pictures of your clients is going to demonstrate that you can get these results for your clients, but you've gotta get me to want to look at your portfolio. Also, if you don't have a developed portfolio, then your body is all I have to go off of. Just something to think about.
    Just replying to the bolded bit directly, back in 2011, I did a weekend course with one of the top powerlifters in Australia, learning from one of the best. And if it weren't for his sport-loving fashion sense, looking at him I wouldn't have known he even did any kind of structured exercise. He wasn't skinny, he wasn't fat, he just looked like an ordinary guy.
    SQ 172.5kg. BP 105kg. DL 200kg. OHP 62.5kg @ 67.3kg

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  11. #71
    Registered User sonti's Avatar
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    Ikeman,

    And what does a "powerlifter" look like? Must they be fat?

    Would you let her train you in powerlifting? No, because she is female and because she looks like a normal girl off the street?


    Elite Canadian national powerlifting champion...
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  12. #72
    Registered User UnaChispita's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MikeEsp_Fit View Post
    When an average person walks into an average gym looking for a trainer and they see a trainer that looks healthy (not ripped or massively muscular, just healthy) and a trainer who's 40 pounds overweight, 9 out of 10 people are going to approach the healthy looking trainer for training. I'm not saying that the healthy trainer knows more or less than the overweight trainer, I'm just saying people will automatically trust they know what they're doing because of appearance. This is before they've spoken to either of them. The overweight trainer may know more and be a better sales person, but it doesn't matter because the client already chose they healthy guy before talking to the overweight trainer.
    Well. I'm not a PT. I'm not even sure if I supposed to post here.

    I am just one of those average people at the gym who has hired PTs (notice plural form of word). My decision to hire a specific PT comes down to my current fitness goal and how much knowledge that PT has about my goal (regardless of how they look).

    When I hired my first PT, I had been injured. Badly. Couldn't run anymore. Wanted to learn to use the machines in the gym. I asked for a trainer who was very knowledgeable about injury prevention. She made sure I was using machines correctly to avoid injury.

    Then I decided I wanted to lift weights. She admitted she did not know a lot about weight training. I stuck with her for a while out of loyalty, but I realized I needed to move on to someone who could help me achieve my new goal.

    Just my 2 cents as a formerly-injured-still chunky-not-certified-run-of-the-mill-average-Joe-who-hires-PTs
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  13. #73
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    Originally Posted by UnaChispita View Post
    Well. I'm not a PT. I'm not even sure if I supposed to post here.

    I am just one of those average people at the gym who has hired PTs (notice plural form of word). My decision to hire a specific PT comes down to my current fitness goal and how much knowledge that PT has about my goal (regardless of how they look).

    When I hired my first PT, I had been injured. Badly. Couldn't run anymore. Wanted to learn to use the machines in the gym. I asked for a trainer who was very knowledgeable about injury prevention. She made sure I was using machines correctly to avoid injury.

    Then I decided I wanted to lift weights. She admitted she did not know a lot about weight training. I stuck with her for a while out of loyalty, but I realized I needed to move on to someone who could help me achieve my new goal.

    Just my 2 cents as a formerly-injured-still chunky-not-certified-run-of-the-mill-average-Joe-who-hires-PTs
    Thank you for providing input as a person who has hired trainers in the past. It helps us all when feedback is given from people who have actually hired trainers, not the regular person who looks at and judges trainers without having ever worked with one.
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  14. #74
    It's not the gun, stupid. Ikeman83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sonti View Post
    Ikeman,

    And what does a "powerlifter" look like? Must they be fat?

    Would you let her train you in powerlifting? No, because she is female and because she looks like a normal girl off the street?


    Elite Canadian national powerlifting champion...
    I wouldn't let her train me because she's Canadian. I don't care that she's female, and if you look at a picture of her where she isn't wearing a parka, it's pretty obvious that she's in fantastic shape. I wasn't able to find a picture of her legs, but I'm sure that she doesn't have sticks either. In her case, her accomplishments (her body, her competition record, her own experiences with training for powerlifting) would be her advertising.

    Using an extreme outlier to frame the entirety of a discussion is a poor way to find answers regarding a topic.
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    Registered User sonti's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ikeman83 View Post
    I wouldn't let her train me because she's Canadian. I don't care that she's female, and if you look at a picture of her where she isn't wearing a parka, it's pretty obvious that she's in fantastic shape. I wasn't able to find a picture of her legs, but I'm sure that she doesn't have sticks either. In her case, her accomplishments (her body, her competition record, her own experiences with training for powerlifting) would be her advertising.

    Using an extreme outlier to frame the entirety of a discussion is a poor way to find answers regarding a topic.
    I've seen her in person several times, she looks like a normal girl. She's the one on the left.
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/6442413.bin

    But again, what does a "powerlifter" look like? Aside from extreme outliers (giant Wendler or whatever), they all look like NORMAL men. Have you actually been to PL meets? Surely if you have, you would see this in the average PL trainer.

    And if you decide to change your goals, then what? Dump your trainer every time you change your mind?

    Your wife wants to get in shape for an event, choosing a slimmer girl doesn't mean that slim girl knows a darn thing about getting that girl slim. A lot of female trainers have been naturally slim/fit their whole life, many of them have never been in the position to need to lose weight or even have a shred of sympathy for it. So, you are much better off choosing the person who has gotten the results for many people... regardless of what they look like.
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    Originally Posted by WoofieNugget View Post
    Thank you for providing input as a person who has hired trainers in the past. It helps us all when feedback is given from people who have actually hired trainers, not the regular person who looks at and judges trainers without having ever worked with one.
    I think people hire trainers for lots of reasons. I think the ones who stick with a training program/trainer are more likely to be thoughtful about it. Sure there's probably the woman who wants to lose weight so she hires the trainer who looks like her "ideal"--Does she stick with it? If so, maybe the person who "looked good" at the outset isn't the best for her.

    I also think the relationship a trainer has with the client is important. It is a partnership. The person hiring a personal trainer is willing to tell that person a lot of info they might not share with others (weight, fears, etc). There is a certain vulnerability the client may have imo.

    For me: When I first started, my PT wanted me to use the assisted pullup machine. I am afraid of heights. Had a panic attack the first time I used it. It was embarrassing. She witnessed that. Luckily, I trust her so I continued to go back.

    Originally Posted by sonti View Post

    And if you decide to change your goals, then what? Dump your trainer every time you change your mind?
    ^^^ Not sure if that is directed at me. Actually, I didn't "dump" her at first. She admitted she didn't know a lot about free weight training but was willing to learn. I stuck with her, but it became clear to both of us that she didn't feel comfortable with it. We still have a great relationship and I appreciate all she did for me to help me recover from an injury.

    I don't change my mind a lot--but life sometimes forces a person to make different goals. Got another injury in November--from dancing (not lifting). Was in physical therapy 3x week. It has impacted by ability to lift weights. So yeah...I'm still lifting weights, but not doing the 5x5 program I had been doing.

    Your wife wants to get in shape for an event, choosing a slimmer girl doesn't mean that slim girl knows a darn thing about getting that girl slim. A lot of female trainers have been naturally slim/fit their whole life, many of them have never been in the position to need to lose weight or even have a shred of sympathy for it. So, you are much better off choosing the person who has gotten the results for many people... regardless of what they look like.
    This^^^.

    I would be more likely to choose a trainer who was overweight but who had dropped 80 pounds already rather than an eternally skinny woman who can't understand my desire to binge on chocolate and bread when my mom drives me crazy.
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  17. #77
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    Not you sorry, I mean those who only want a trainer who represents their physical goal at the time.
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    Originally Posted by sonti View Post
    Not you sorry, I mean those who only want a trainer who represents their physical goal at the time.
    Ahhh. Gotcha!

    Am noticing how my gym is much less crowded these days as the Resolutioners lose steam.

    Seems that PTs have a lot of challenges.

    The ppl that hire someone who rep their physical goal would be tough I imagine. How do you motivate someone who probably hasn't honestly been thoughtful about the real work that needs to be done to attain that goal? (just speculating).
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    Originally Posted by UnaChispita View Post
    Ahhh. Gotcha!

    Am noticing how my gym is much less crowded these days as the Resolutioners lose steam.

    Seems that PTs have a lot of challenges.

    The ppl that hire someone who rep their physical goal would be tough I imagine. How do you motivate someone who probably hasn't honestly been thoughtful about the real work that needs to be done to attain that goal? (just speculating).
    With regards to the bolded bit; I would love to work in a gym ATM. (only for that bit TBH) This should be the easiest time to sell PT to people. All you have to do is get yourself a list of people who started coming in regularly Jan and who are slowing down in Feb. Call them or go up to them and say "Listen, you don't want to fail this year like you've done every year up-til now. Hire me and we'll break the cycle".

    Especially now that they've had a first paycheck since Christmas in so should have a few pennies in the bank again.

    A PT should always be honest with their clients about the actual work required to get to a certain goal. I find that if I'm honest and explain to people that losing 20Kg is going to be hard work they will accept that. If I tell them "Yeah, I'll get you there in a few months time and you can eat whatever you want" they'll hate me for life.
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    I think everyone can agree trainers come in different shapes and sizes and different levels of knowledge and experience.
    If a trainer that was or is a competitive powerlifter,football player or strongman most likely going to be a big guy,not always though.
    A trainer that was say a swimmer or runner may be slim.
    No you dont have to look like a Mr Olympia competitor to train someone.
    Look at that picture of Arnold in the post he doesn't look all that great but we all know he would have tons of knowledge to offer to clients that wanted to be bodybuilders.His past speaks for itself.Would he be a good trainer?
    Who knows, there are those other thing besides knowledge that would be a factor also but in this case his shape would not be a factor.He still does train himself be it around previous injuries and heart surgeries so he would still be some kind of example.
    If you feel comfortable with a trainer that has no athletic experience,a pin puller and adjusts machines for you and is 30% body fat then good for you.
    I certainly wouldn't hire that type of trainer.
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  21. #81
    Nutritionist and Trainer JaruebaT's Avatar
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    I don't know I just think a lot of people are missing his point here. I for one think if your job is to promote health and fitness then why wouldn't you be in decent shape. Not only does it set a bad example but i don't think it is great for their business. A lot of people seem to disagree with him but have yet to provide one example of a successful out of shape trainer. All the "out of shape" examples have been powerlifting or Olympic champions that would not work with the general population anyway. Most of these guys area of expertise is not getting the average gym goer in shape but to develope athletes for strength and power- totally different area. Not to mention just by looking at them you can see by their broad shoulders and big legs that they carry a lot of muscle. I would like to know how many people that disagree with him know an "average" out of shape trainer in an "average" gym that is tons of successful.
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  22. #82
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    Originally Posted by adpayne View Post
    I've had my my say, but needed to comment on this.

    If we are so "superficial" as a nation, why is the vast majority of our population overweight, and over half, obese?

    Am I shallow, or vain, for wanting to look good naked?

    Probably.

    But I also like being mistaken for someone 20 years younger than my age. I like being more fit, and stronger, than most of the young guys in my gym. I like not having back problems, and not being on any medications, like most people my age suffer from.

    I'll admit I'm fighting Father Time tooth and nail, and will until I die. And I won't apologize for it either.
    I missed the OP's point because I did not read the whole thing, so I jumped to conclusion. As a result, you missed my point for missing the OP's point. But that's okay. It's just the web..

    You brought up some interesting and valid points. This country has a lot of problems. You mention overweight, obese, etc... That is one of many, many problems.. But that part of the problem is NOT aesthetics in nature; that "problem" is more due to lack of personal responsibility, lack of pride in oneselft, lack of discipline, and I can go on and on.

    Do I think you are vain? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! I wish more people in this country would be 'vain' the way you define it.

    Great job taking care of yourself and exercising personal accountability and responsibility. Keep at it, and kick father time's ass.
    This above all..
    To thine ownself be true..
    And it must follow, as the night the day..
    Thou can'st not then be false to any man..
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  23. #83
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    Originally Posted by MikeEsp_Fit View Post
    Kyle, it seems like you're a pretty good trainer, been in the profession a long time and know what you're talking about. But we obviously come from completely different backgrounds and cultures. I guess in the area that you train from what you're saying people don't care what their trainer looks like. But over here the feedback I'm getting is very much the opposite. I have a pretty large following, not a fan club, but a following, and the large majority looks at the trainer first and listens second.
    As for clients just flattering me, I can tell the difference between being flattered and people being sincere. They don't tell me "Mike I train with you because you look amazing and I want to look like you." They say, "Mike I like that you take care of yourself and I can tell you take your training seriously." That's hardly flattery. I'm not one of those pretty boy trainers that trains to get girls, I've been married for 9 years and have 2 kids, I know that doesn't matter for a lot of people, but I'm one of the rare ones who it makes all the difference to and my clients know it.
    To clarify again, I never said that a trainer should have 6 pack abs or be "buff". I just said healthy and fit, Kyle you look like you're pretty healthy. Just because I happen to like Bodybuilding doesn't mean that I think all trainers should be into bodybuilding. I think some of you are looking at my profile photos and assuming I'm some cocky young kid you thinks he's better than everyone. You're jumping to conclusions if that's the case and it's not true.
    What's funny to me is that I posted the same article on overweight trainers on my blog and everyone liked and agreed with it. All the people that are clients, prospects, enthusiasts, and non-trainers said that I'm right, they would never want to train with someone who doesn't train themselves. But when I post it in a Training forum I get a lot of mixed replies from various trainers, and this is the problem. I always believe in going the extra mile for my clients. And sometimes to motivate them you've got to get down with them and share the pain. If they're jogging laps I'm jogging right beside them. Do I have to do that, no of course not. It's a lot easier to just stand on the side and look at my watch, but that's the kind of thing people appreciate. No one ever wants to lead by example anymore. How can we promote a healthy life with a bag of potato chips in our hand?
    I don't think I'm better than anyone else is. All I want for trainers is what all of us trainers want for everyone else, to be healthy.
    Negged for sounding like a ***get
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  24. #84
    Registered User PeteratCastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MachetePower View Post
    Negged for sounding like a ***get
    lolz @ this being your first post.

    Have fun being red
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  25. #85
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    There's an overweight trainer in my gym, with all the extra weight in her thighs and ass, and she wears yoga pants everyday. Don't know how to hit on girls in the gym? Especially when they're 5+ years older than me.
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    Originally Posted by sonti View Post
    I've never seen a PT in person who is 100lbs overweight.

    I am about 10-15lbs overweight right now, do you think that means I am a poor example to clients? I had a baby 10 weeks ago. Sometimes health and fitness means slowly recovering after certain life events (pregnancy, injury) in order to do things in a safe and sustainable manner. My knowledge of training is the same.
    I tend to agree with this post. I'm recently recovering from injury that's had me sidelined for 2/3 years (knee issues after knee issues) I'm over at the minute but that doesn't question my knowledge of the industry, I can see how some would think that though. In my experience in the industry I've met a total of one person that doesn't train or seem to have any interest in the industry but they weren't overweight but they knew very little. You can't always judge people by pure looks alone.
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    Originally Posted by MachetePower View Post
    Negged for sounding like a ***get
    You're an idiot dude. Run along and let the grown folks talk.
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    I see a problem in the industry for the reverse of what the OP is saying. People who think they're good trainers because they like lifting weights and have a good physique. In fact, that kind of narcissism really shows, and scares away many of the typical gym-goers. I hear so many patrons express happiness when the big gym rats decide to move to a more "hardcore" gym.

    "I am a leader, motivator, coach, athlete, competitor, supporter, friend, teacher, student, role model, alarm clock, counselor and daily reminder that hard work, discipline and patience are the keys to success." --You're right about this, and it all has almost nothing to do with your 6 pack. Can you relate, communicate, teach, empathize; are you knowledgeable, adaptable, likable?

    It's funny at my gym the bottom trainer, out of 10, is the stacked guy who came from college strength and conditioning. He has the personality of a serial killer, and he's getting whooped by the everyday looking girl and the grey-haired male trainer who looks like a car salesman.
    Last edited by pcproffy; 01-28-2013 at 12:50 PM.
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    Red face

    Originally Posted by MachetePower View Post
    Negged for sounding like a ***get
    Congrats on having no idea how the rep system works. You negged him with zero rep power. That shows up in his CP as a gray. A neutral. You had zero effect on him. Now prepare for a red storm in your CP for being a disrespectful little s***.
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  30. #90
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    pcproffy,

    You know a lot of people took me writing this as a way of me saying that I'm better than everyone else. I'm just saying this what being a personal trainer means to me.

    As for your questions:
    can I relate - leader, motivator, coach, athlete, competitor, supporter, friend, teacher, student, role model, alarm clock, counselor all relate to different people.

    communicate - leader, motivator, coach, supporter, friend, teacher, counselor, daily reminder that hard work, discipline and patience are the keys to success all require communication.

    teach - coach, teacher and counselor all require you to teach

    empathize - supporter, friend and counselor require empathy

    knowledgeable - leader, coach, athlete, competitor, teacher, student and counselor all require and/or help build knowledge.

    adaptable - leader, motivator, coach, athlete, competitor, supporter, friend, teacher, student, role model, alarm clock, counselor and daily reminder that hard work, discipline and patience are the keys to success, pretty much all of those involve being adaptable.

    likable - I have been up until now. I'm getting the impression you may not like me very much, but my clients seem to be fond of me, otherwise I wouldn't get resigns and referrals.


    As I said earlier, obviously I'm not saying that all you need is a good body to be a trainer. I'm saying you need to have knowledge and should have the body that promotes your knowledge.
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