Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[Trillios]

This thread should be locked with two links: one direct to leangains and another for QnAs.

[Simonn]

Sure, because technically your body could make the glucose you need.. But if you don't have regular carbohydrate refeeds your lifts will start to suck pretty quickly. Wouldn't that pretty much make carbs "essential" for lifters too?

I don't believe there is anything necessarily wrong with high fat diets but I don't think anyone should go and mimic the diet in the study just because there was a favorable result with it.

No of course, carb days or re-feeds is a must for a bodybuilder. But just wanted to point out that protein and fats are essential, not carbs. But in a bodybuilding perspective, carbs are useful.

Studies are lame.

[iDrive]

Nah, That's just one study. I wouldn't go trying trying to eat like they did in the study (more than 50% of calories from fat). It however, strengthens the belief that working out in the fasted state not only isn't detrimental to muscular development but may actually provide better results than fed training.

Boom. Exactly.

Actually, protein and fat are the only two macronutrients that are essential to the body. Fat is most definitely essential because of hormonal activity.

True but what doctapeppa was saying was the study had a macro profile of 50%F/40%C/10%P since they were trying to mimic the average American diet. It probably should be tweaked and not followed as a rule just to get the same results as the study.

Studies are lame.

F*cking scientists with their beakers and lab coats...


...lolwut?

[apace]

Just tried this protein Fluff , turned out to be amazing stuff , i never taught that casein protein could increase so much in volume , it was like eating chocolate pudding
Just used 50 grams casein protein , 100ml semi skimmed milk, sweeteners , 1 teaspoon vanilla extract , 1 tbsp cocoa powder & 100 gr berries , mixed for about 4 minutes , probably could get more fluff if mixed for more time but it was good enough .
Next time i will try with some bananas and see how it goes as these are sweeter probably it will taste like nutella

[aer_vlad]

Just tried this protein Fluff , turned out to be amazing stuff , i never taught that casein protein could increase so much in volume , it was like eating chocolate pudding
Just used 50 grams casein protein , 100ml semi skimmed milk, sweeteners , 1 teaspoon vanilla extract , 1 tbsp cocoa powder & 100 gr berries , mixed for about 4 minutes , probably could get more fluff if mixed for more time but it was good enough .
Next time i will try with some bananas and see how it goes as these are sweeter probably it will taste like nutella

Huh? You mixed for 4 minutes? By hand or with a blender? Why'd you mix so long?

[CarlGN]

has anybody tried rolling their banana with slices of roast beef as a snack? I believe Martin mentioned it on his website or twitter. Anyways I didn't expect it to be as good as it was!

[determined4000]

has anybody tried rolling their banana with slices of roast beef as a snack? I believe Martin mentioned it on his website or twitter. Anyways I didn't expect it to be as good as it was!

Instead make a chocolate whey pancake, spread on a thick layer of pb, and wrap ur nana in that.

[mkal]

I've tried to search through here (and leangains) for the answer to this but haven't found anything definitive, so if someone has a link to the answer or could tell me, I would greatly appreciate it.

I'm prepping for a marathon (and eventually ultra-marathon) for rowing and wondering if IF is suitable for that type of endurance training.

My schedule is as follows:

M - Row at 9:00am
T - Gymnastics at 7pm
W - Row at 9:00am
R - Gymnastics at 6:30pm
F - Row at 9:00am
Sa - Row at 9:30am
Su - Off

Based on that, I'd do the "Early morning fasted training" protocol on leangains. Does this seem like a good idea? Thanks, I appreciate it!

[doctapeppa]

I've tried to search through here (and leangains) for the answer to this but haven't found anything definitive, so if someone has a link to the answer or could tell me, I would greatly appreciate it.

I'm prepping for a marathon (and eventually ultra-marathon) for rowing and wondering if IF is suitable for that type of endurance training.

My schedule is as follows:

M - Row at 9:00am
T - Gymnastics at 7pm
W - Row at 9:00am
R - Gymnastics at 6:30pm
F - Row at 9:00am
Sa - Row at 9:30am
Su - Off

Based on that, I'd do the "Early morning fasted training" protocol on leangains. Does this seem like a good idea? Thanks, I appreciate it!

Possibly, but there is only one study on fasted endurance training that I know of, and although I know the results were favorable I don't know the exact details. I can dig it up. Martin currently does not have anything written as far as recommendations for fasted endurance training. I'm fairly certain these are pretty much uncharted waters. I know a lot of us would like to know your experiences if you do try it out.

Edit: Oh, er. oops. Here's one that showed negative outcome: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20519256

[MikeK46]

has anybody tried rolling their banana with slices of roast beef as a snack? I believe Martin mentioned it on his website or twitter. Anyways I didn't expect it to be as good as it was!

Savory + sweet flavors in the same dish = awesome (think krispy kreme cheeseburger). Next time I make salmon burgers, I'm putting maple syrup on them. Gonna be the bomb.

[determined4000]

I've tried to search through here (and leangains) for the answer to this but haven't found anything definitive, so if someone has a link to the answer or could tell me, I would greatly appreciate it.

I'm prepping for a marathon (and eventually ultra-marathon) for rowing and wondering if IF is suitable for that type of endurance training.

My schedule is as follows:

M - Row at 9:00am
T - Gymnastics at 7pm
W - Row at 9:00am
R - Gymnastics at 6:30pm
F - Row at 9:00am
Sa - Row at 9:30am
Su - Off

Based on that, I'd do the "Early morning fasted training" protocol on leangains. Does this seem like a good idea? Thanks, I appreciate it!

My two thoughts
1. Given your high calorie intake (I assume) I am not sure a. Why you would want to squeeze everything in so tight b. if you could c. if you could maintain top athletic
performance

2. Only one way to find out

[jenmendez89]

Savory + sweet flavors in the same dish = awesome (think krispy kreme cheeseburger). Next time I make salmon burgers, I'm putting maple syrup on them. Gonna be the bomb.

I don't think I'd wanna try that

[mkal]

Possibly, but there is only one study on fasted endurance training that I know of, and although I know the results were favorable I don't know the exact details. I can dig it up. Martin currently does not have anything written as far as recommendations for fasted endurance training. I'm fairly certain these are pretty much uncharted waters. I know a lot of us would like to know your experiences if you do try it out.

Edit: Oh, er. oops. Here's one that showed negative outcome: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20519256

Interesting. I was able to find a quote from Martin, but it was limited to only:

I am not a fan of prolonged endurance training in the fasted state.

with no mention of what defines "prolonged". For my rowing, I wake up and consume approximately 300 kcals and am usually actively rowing within 60-90 minutes (and these sessions currently take approximately 2hrs). When I go beyond 2hrs, I eat during.

My two thoughts
1. Given your high calorie intake (I assume) I am not sure a. Why you would want to squeeze everything in so tight b. if you could c. if you could maintain top athletic
performance

2. Only one way to find out

Right now, it's not unreasonably high (approx. 3000 kcals to maintain on rowing days, 2000ish on off days, unknown for gymnastic days). I plan on staying at my current rowing intensity for a little while (a couple weeks doing half-marathons) in which I would like to try IF, but once I get to multiple 30km+ sessions per week, I'd switch back. Most of this is mainly because I've never tried IF and think it'd be interesting to try.

[MikeK46]

I don't think I'd wanna try that

Seriously? This doesn't look amazing to you? Sweet + salty activates all the taste buds simultaneously...all the great chefs know this. It's only due to cultural beliefs that we usually separate sweet + salty. This would make for a delicious meal and add variety to an IF diet where massive amounts of food are to be consumed within a short period of time!

[determined4000]

Seriously? This doesn't look amazing to you? Sweet + salty activates all the taste buds simultaneously...all the great chefs know this. It's only due to cultural beliefs that we usually separate sweet + salty. This would make for a delicious meal and add variety to an IF diet where massive amounts of food are to be consumed within a short period of time!

y do I not believe you in particular ever eat that?

[deadfingers]

I have a question, probably a bit too anal but I find it easier to keep track of things. Anyways I'm keeping track of everything in Fitday so I stay within my cals. I'm going for 500 below maintenance. Now right now my BMR (which includes my activity level) is at 3000 (like 3060 or so, but I'll use 3000). So I'm thinking about using BMR without my activity level included, and just use my calories burned for the day (using a garmin or something when working out) and adding that to my calories, then subtracting 500 from that. Reading that back, it seems a little odd, but I want to keep better track of how many calories I'm eating versus how many I'm burning. Thoughts?

[CarlGN]

Instead make a chocolate whey pancake, spread on a thick layer of pb, and wrap ur nana in that.

that sounds delicious! can't wait to experiment in the kitchen this week.

btw MikeK46, that krispy kreme burger looks deadly LOL

[doctapeppa]

I have a question, probably a bit too anal but I find it easier to keep track of things. Anyways I'm keeping track of everything in Fitday so I stay within my cals. I'm going for 500 below maintenance. Now right now my BMR (which includes my activity level) is at 3000 (like 3060 or so, but I'll use 3000). So I'm thinking about using BMR without my activity level included, and just use my calories burned for the day (using a garmin or something when working out) and adding that to my calories, then subtracting 500 from that. Reading that back, it seems a little odd, but I want to keep better track of how many calories I'm eating versus how many I'm burning. Thoughts?

My thoughts are: "Dammit, I wish I could eat 3000 calories a day!" Hehe, but seriously. Just try it out and adjust accordingly. I don't know about fitday but I use Myfitnesspal and it lets you input your activity and then calculates how many more calories you get and adds that to your daily total. I know Livestrong and LoseIt for the iphone also does this automatically as well if you like.

Me, I always do the same amount of cardio, so I don't bother tracking my calories out and just keep track of the calories I consume instead.

Seriously? This doesn't look amazing to you? Sweet + salty activates all the taste buds simultaneously...all the great chefs know this. It's only due to cultural beliefs that we usually separate sweet + salty. This would make for a delicious meal and add variety to an IF diet where massive amounts of food are to be consumed within a short period of time!

That looks absolutely disgusting! Not sure if you are being serious about this.

A nanner inside a pancake with some natty pb, however, sounds like it will be my next snack

[MikeK46]

y do I not believe you in particular ever eat that?

Because I'm "clean" bulking?

[determined4000]

Because I'm "clean" bulking?

seriously just try what I posted
Clean doesnt have to mean plain
It tastes so good you will think it is bad for you
Its like a Reese's Banana sandwich
Def eating another one tonight now

[deadfingers]

My thoughts are: "Dammit, I wish I could eat 3000 calories a day!" Hehe, but seriously. Just try it out and adjust accordingly. I don't know about fitday but I use Myfitnesspal and it lets you input your activity and then calculates how many more calories you get and adds that to your daily total. I know Livestrong and LoseIt for the iphone also does this automatically as well if you like.

Me, I always do the same amount of cardio, so I don't bother tracking my calories out and just keep track of the calories I consume instead.

I'd think you'd be about the same, if not more calories wise. My BMR is 1800 roughly, then I added in the "activity level" which for me was pretty intense 5-6 days a week. My job is pretty labor intensive at times as well, so it ramped it up to 3000. I use fitday since well I've always used it. Bought the program, and honestly I love it. Used to hate having to input everything but now it's fairly simple to do. I might try out myfitnesspal to see if I like it better. I like fitday, but I'm always looking for something better. Anyways I'm thinking about getting a Garmin or something similar, that will track calories burnt and such. I think finding out how much I'm actually burning and eating will give me a good reference to use and eventually I can just do it all in my head.

[apace]

No for the protein Fluff i used an electric blender as per Martins Instructions on his latest post
Martin advises 8 minutes , i think that long as the longer you mix the bigger the fluff
i think you can use egg whites too to get more volume too

[spicyprice]

I tried a fasted ride on my bike one day and aftet about an hour and 45 I was spent..... It was a pretty intense ride and although at first I felt like I had all the energy in the world it faded right at the end....... And the last 5 miles were alllllll uphill. I can't imagine marathon training fasted.

[Dexter3000]

I've tried to search through here (and leangains) for the answer to this but haven't found anything definitive, so if someone has a link to the answer or could tell me, I would greatly appreciate it.

I'm prepping for a marathon (and eventually ultra-marathon) for rowing and wondering if IF is suitable for that type of endurance training.

My schedule is as follows:

M - Row at 9:00am
T - Gymnastics at 7pm
W - Row at 9:00am
R - Gymnastics at 6:30pm
F - Row at 9:00am
Sa - Row at 9:30am
Su - Off

Based on that, I'd do the "Early morning fasted training" protocol on leangains. Does this seem like a good idea? Thanks, I appreciate it!

My advice would be to have a more regular diet (in terms of meal timing). If you are performing on (pro) athletic levels I think you would benefit most of a continual supply of energy.

Maybe the other way around makes more sense: IF is designed to have optimal nutrient partitioning for fat loss and muscle gain. It's mostly aimed at changing and improving body composition. The IF protocol has shown very good results in this field. However, if you are talking purely about prepping for a marathon (ultra-marathon even) then I would not focus on weight loss/gain but on performance. I think you could benefit more if you have a solid pre-workout meal in the morning etc. There's just a big difference between bodybuilding and running ultra-marathons diet and preparation-wise.

Just my 2 cents.

[apace]

Regarding coffee as martin said its ok to drink up as much as you like ,Whats
the limit one can take ( black coffee no sugar no milk no creamers)? as i read many articles against coffee especially , that it drains your energy and makes you feel lathergic , increase cortisol levels , over stimulates your cns
I don't know why coffee gets so much negative feedback for something that has been around for 1000 of years how can it be bad ?

[bejetah]

Regarding coffee as martin said its ok to drink up as much as you like ,Whats
the limit one can take ( black coffee no sugar no milk no creamers)? as i read many articles against coffee especially , that it drains your energy and makes you feel lathergic , increase cortisol levels , over stimulates your cns
I don't know why coffee gets so much negative feedback for something that has been around for 1000 of years how can it be bad ?

Well its still a CNS stimulant. Read up some articles on stimulant over consumption

[joelash302]

Regarding coffee as martin said its ok to drink up as much as you like ,Whats
the limit one can take ( black coffee no sugar no milk no creamers)? as i read many articles against coffee especially , that it drains your energy and makes you feel lathergic , increase cortisol levels , over stimulates your cns
I don't know why coffee gets so much negative feedback for something that has been around for 1000 of years how can it be bad ?

Generic answer but probably as much as you care to enjoy without seeing negative side effects (sleep disorder, nervousness, etc.). General recommendations are something like 2-4 cups a day I believe, in a fasted state you will experience a lot more effect from less caffeine (one cup wakes me right the heck up on an empty stomach).

[apace]

I don't see any difference with coffee fasted or not fasted i take 4 to 5 cups a day , from tomorrow i will be adding tyrosine with the black coffee too , i will start with 500 mg

[malibu2008]

COFFEE may dehydrate you, i think the caffeine from green tea is more even keeld and lasting than with coffee. i get UP and then crash with coffee

[makemonie]

I've been IF for about 3 weeks now. I don't seem to be losing any more fat despite being at a 500cal deficit.

I am 170lbs @ 10% and I feel like I've stalled. I workout fasted 4 times a week with only BCAA's before and after workout then I eat at 6pm and sleep at 9pm to 7am.

I eat 1500-1700 cals a day no more.

At least 160g of protein and the rest can be whatever.

At this deficit I should be losing weight, right? I'm not. What should I change?