R-ALA Vs. ALA

[Brewstar]

Everything I see lately is pushing R-ALA which is the "activated" form of ALA. So my question would be is there still a place for ALA in daily supplementation?

[NO HYPE]

If you search around a bit [I've posted on this numerous times], you'll find that it has been suggested that Na-RALA is pharmacokinetically superior to both forms.

[Mr.Cooper69]

If you search around a bit [I've posted on this numerous times], you'll find that it has been suggested that Na-RALA is pharmacokinetically superior to both forms.

You mad I just ingested 300mg of NA-R-Ala?

[NO HYPE]

You mad I just ingested 300mg of NA-R-Ala?

Lulz. On a side note [in the face of scarce research], I have always wondered what an optimal daily dose would be, or at what point prooxidation could be a potential factor.

[Mr.Cooper69]

Lulz. On a side note [in the face of scarce research], I have always wondered what an optimal daily dose would be, or at what point prooxidation could be a potential factor.

As have I. With a half-life of 17-22 hours, I'd say 300-600mg Na-R-Ala per day is optimal. Anything beyond 600mg in a 24 hour period and I think proxidation could become an issue.

[Brewstar]

If you search around a bit [I've posted on this numerous times], you'll find that it has been suggested that Na-RALA is pharmacokinetically superior to both forms.

Sorry I didn't search more before I posted (I hate the format of this forum I hope they streamline it some how soon). My question would become then why do only a few companies produce it if that's the case. Understand I'm not doubting you as a person, but if the science points to this conclusion...then why?

[papagunz]

If you search around a bit [I've posted on this numerous times], you'll find that it has been suggested that Na-RALA is pharmacokinetically superior to both forms.

Speaking of Na-RALA, do you have any particular thoughts on glycobol?

[Mr.Cooper69]

Speaking of Na-RALA, do you have any particular thoughts on glycobol?

I am convinced they use a low quality Na-R-Ala source, because my Geronova-licensed Na-R-Ala seems FAR more effective.

[wakingmalice]

I am convinced they use a low quality Na-R-Ala source, because my Geronova-licensed Na-R-Ala seems FAR more effective.

It's a possibility. It provides less r-ala per mg of na-r-ala as well.

Na-r-ala for sure. it's not a matter of how much na-r-ala that is ingested but how much r-ala is ingested. I would say the upper limit of 600 would be the highest, but may be a waste. I think between 120-200mg r-ala is the upper limit per dosing, no more than 3 doses a day.

[NO HYPE]

I'd say 300-600mg Na-R-Ala per day is optimal. Anything beyond 600mg in a 24 hour period and I think proxidation could become an issue.

Na-r-ala for sure. it's not a matter of how much na-r-ala that is ingested but how much r-ala is ingested. I would say the upper limit of 600 would be the highest, but may be a waste. I think between 120-200mg r-ala is the upper limit per dosing, no more than 3 doses a day.

Maybe not....

Results

NaRLA displays mean Cmax and AUC values of 16.03 ug /mL and 7.36 ug hr/mL and decreased time to maximum concentration (Tmax) and T1/2 values relative to literature values for RLA or rac-LA. In order to significantly extend Cmax and AUC, it is possible to administer three 600-mg RLA doses (as NaRLA) at 15-minute intervals to achieve plasma concentrations similar to those from a slow (20-minute) IV infusion of LA.

Altern Med Rev. 2007 Dec;12(4):343-51.
Carlson DA, Smith AR, Fischer SJ, Young KL, Packer L.
The plasma pharmacokinetics of R-(+)-lipoic acid administered as sodium R-(+)-lipoate to healthy human subjects.

[NO HYPE]

why do only a few companies produce it if that's the case?

My [guess] would be that most consumers are simply unaware of the significantly improved pharmacokinetic profile of NaRLA, and just want to see something that says ALA or RLA on the bottle. Additionally, I'm not sure what the differences in manufacturing costs are.

[ISurfNudeBrah]

Can you guys link me to some reading on NA-R-ALA, R-ALA, ALA, etc.

[NO HYPE]

Speaking of Na-RALA, do you have any particular thoughts on glycobol?

I've never used it however, if the raws are analytically verified, then I'm sure it's a quality source of NaRLA. Unfortunately, I never did much research on the topic of NaRLA and/or RLA-mediated enhancement of insulin secretion in healthy adults, so I'll just refrain from commenting on that topic for now.

--> In any case, I see absolutely no justification for the addition of BMOV.

[NO HYPE]

Can you guys link me to some reading on NA-R-ALA, R-ALA, ALA, etc.

I'm currently without my computer, so I'm not sure what else I have on file. Nonetheless, here's a little info....

Altern Med Rev. 2007 Dec;12(4):343-51.
Carlson DA, Smith AR, Fischer SJ, Young KL, Packer L.
The plasma pharmacokinetics of R-(+)-lipoic acid administered as sodium R-(+)-lipoate to healthy human subjects.
http://www.anaturalhealingcenter.com...Lipoic12-4.pdf

[NO HYPE]

I am convinced they use a low quality Na-R-Ala source, because my Geronova-licensed Na-R-Ala seems FAR more effective.

Geronova's quality is well-known however, I'm merely curious as to how you personally judge the [effectiveness] of NaRLA?

[Peter LeDrew]

I've never used it however, if the raws are analytically verified, then I'm sure it's a quality source of NaRLA. Unfortunately, I never did much research on the topic of NaRLA and/or RLA-mediated enhancement of insulin secretion in healthy adults, so I'll just refrain from commenting on that topic for now.

--> In any case, I see absolutely no justification for the addition of BMOV.

I contacted Geronova and they warned me that there are cheap NaRLA raws to be wary of. I can't remember the exact reasons of concern, but they mentioned they were planning to do a writeup discussing this very topic.

[Yates Row T]

Geronova's quality is well-known however, I'm merely curious as to how you personally judge the [effectiveness] of NaRLA?

i know for me personally i feel a stronger effect from SAN Na-R-ALA vs some of the R-alas i have used such as AST's.

I would assume its my blood sugar, if not the stuff can just make you plain sick and give you the feeling of low blood sugar, ha. i was on keto when using them both as well.

[NO HYPE]

I contacted Geronova and they warned me that there are cheap NaRLA raws to be wary of. I can't remember the exact reasons of concern, but they mentioned they were planning to do a writeup discussing this very topic.

Yeah, that does not surprise me one bit. The only other NaRLA product I used other than Geronova's was by S.A.N.

In the absence of analytical verification, I'm curious to know how people are evaluating the quality/effectiveness of such a compound?

[NO HYPE]

In the absence of analytical verification, I'm curious to know how people are evaluating the quality/effectiveness of such a compound?

i know for me personally i feel a stronger effect from SAN Na-R-ALA vs some of the R-alas i have used such as AST's.

I would assume its my blood sugar, if not the stuff can just make you plain sick and give you the feeling of low blood sugar, ha. i was on keto when using them both as well.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

[Mr.Cooper69]

Yeah, that does not surprise me one bit. The only other NaRLA product I used other than Geronova's was by S.A.N.

In the absence of analytical verification, I'm curious to know how people are evaluating the quality/effectiveness of such a compound?

I personally used a bloodsugar monitor, and also notice more bloating and GI issues from Glycobol.

[NO HYPE]

I personally used a bloodsugar monitor, and also notice more bloating and GI issues from Glycobol.

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep that in mind.

[Mr.Cooper69]

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep that in mind.

Also just purely speculatively, Glycobol was on sale for 20 dollars or less on many instances. I don't see how that can be profitable if the Na-R-Ala source is quality.

[NO HYPE]

Also just purely speculatively, Glycobol was on sale for 20 dollars or less on many instances. I don't see how that can be profitable if the Na-R-Ala source is quality.

Trust me.... this exact thought has crossed my mind on numerous occasions. Additionally, the addition of BMOV suggests to me that they are not considering scientific data in relation to healthy humans, prior to incorporating such ingredients.

[wakingmalice]

Yeah, that does not surprise me one bit. The only other NaRLA product I used other than Geronova's was by S.A.N.

In the absence of analytical verification, I'm curious to know how people are evaluating the quality/effectiveness of such a compound?

SAN is geronova's.

Blood glucose monitor and gi distress is noticeable. nothing in glycobol will cause gi distress in my experience (i've taken each ingredient separately) so I assume it's the low quality ingredients.

Interesting study on 600mg. Although i saw no extra benefit on 300+ mg when doing glucose meter.

[moarcowbell]

I think R-ALA is more expensive...so if you dont have the extra money, ALA is still a great sup. imo.

[poison]

i know for me personally i feel a stronger effect from SAN Na-R-ALA vs some of the R-alas i have used such as AST's.

Really? I've used random low cost NA-R-ALA's, but never SAN's. I wasn't aware it mattered that much.

[Yates Row T]

Really? I've used random low cost NA-R-ALA's, but never SAN's. I wasn't aware it mattered that much.

u r a rep bro ur missing out.

get me some 3x FF, Na R ala and some Infusion and some Whey Isolate and tell Joey(Dr Feel Good) i asked haha!!!

srs would ask for it on next compensation order if i were u

[papagunz]

Thanks everyone for the conjecture, I've picked up some good info for sure.

[Peter LeDrew]

SAN is geronova's.

What makes you think this?

They advertise a Biosolv Enhanced version while Geronova's is a trademarked Bio-enhanced version.

[Sldge]

I am convinced they use a low quality Na-R-Ala source, because my Geronova-licensed Na-R-Ala seems FAR more effective.

Geronova's should be the gold standard. When we had started the research on the old GXR and then the possibility of a reform we tested out probably half a dozen different samples. Both in the lab and with a glucometer. Over and over again Geronovas was the best but it isnt cheap. Ive wanted to try out there new liquid stuff and see if its different at all.

Ive seen a lot of people suggest to use higher amounts of the cheaper stuff but even that didnt seem to help much with the glucometer.