what is most important for muscle building protein or calories?

[bwidger]

what is most important for muscle building protein or calories?

I weigh 178 at 5'11 and I'm 26 years old. Will 200grams protein per day be enough to build muscle? Should I focus more on calories or protein? Will most my calories come from eating around 200grams protein daily? Thanks.

[phal]

Think about this for a second.

[bwidger]

Think about this for a second.

Ok, thought about it :P


Sorry, I realize this may be a simple and stupid question for most of you, but I'm just curious.

From my understanding 1-1.5g of protein per lbs body weight is sufficient for optimal gains. 200g may be too much for me. I figure to eat 200g of protein per day I will most likely be eating enough calories through the meals. I guess they go hand in hand, but why is everyone harping on calories if they aren't concerned with losing weight but adding muscle? Is it simply for energy-sake?

[phal]

I'm not going to really address your question so I am sorry in advance.

You're not going to grow anything, anywhere, if you're not eating enough calories - period.

Couple that with sufficient protein and you're good to go.

I could easily get 200g of protein in and be far, far under my maintenance & I could also eat way over my maintenance and not hit my protein macro.

[xmohamm1]

Short answer: You need a calorie surplus (typically 10-20 percent more than your maintainence in order to not gain fat) and adequate protein (at least 1g/lb) to grow muscle. Plus stimulation, which is achieved through proper weight training and making strength gains, and rest.

Long answer...I'm too lazy to type. See short answer for all the information you need.

An example: For me, my maintainence is 2400cals. I eat 2700cals now, including at least 1g/lb of protein (155g for me). I train 3 days a week, rest in between. I have gained 4lbs in the last 10wks, I increased my bench 20lbs, deadlift 50lbs, etc. etc. That's all there is to it, more or less.

[peteyboy1015]

Caloric surplus, which most likely entails sufficient protein macros anyway, unless you are on an unrealistic diet of cakes and PopTarts all day.

[PerpetualHeaven]

Caloric surplus, which most likely entails sufficient protein macros anyway, unless you are on an unrealistic diet of cakes and PopTarts all day.

PopTarts and Cakes with 8 scoops of whey? Sounds good to me, haha. Mmm, micronutrient deficiency.

As for the question, you can't really pick either of the two as being more important. You won't necessarily grow unless you're in a surplus (it's possible to build muscle in a cut, but the deficit can't be a very large one). You're just going to get fat if you eat at a surplus without getting an appropriate amount of protein, but your growth won't be very good (or will be non-existent) if you're not hitting your calories.

[bwidger]

I'm not going to really address your question so I am sorry in advance.

You're not going to grow anything, anywhere, if you're not eating enough calories - period.

Couple that with sufficient protein and you're good to go.

I could easily get 200g of protein in and be far, far under my maintenance & I could also eat way over my maintenance and not hit my protein macro.

I guess I'm just confused for the reasoning behind calories and protein, or at least double-check here real fast...

Calories are your fuel source. Too little calories and your body goes catabolic. Too much calries and your body stores to fat. Proteins are the building blocks that help build, maintain and repair cells. Is this pretty accurate so far?

So with that said, I guess you need sufficient calories to not go catabolic while also having enough to have energy. Protein helps do the repairs. Right? Anything I'm missing?

[phal]

I guess I'm just confused for the reasoning behind calories and protein, or at least double-check here real fast...

Calories are your fuel source. Too little calories and your body goes catabolic. Too much calries and your body stores to fat. Proteins are the building blocks that help build, maintain and repair cells. Is this pretty accurate so far?

So with that said, I guess you need sufficient calories to not go catabolic while also having enough to have energy. Protein helps do the repairs. Right? Anything I'm missing?

I'll just skip to the point since you're basically there.

It's really simple, eat enough calories (roughly 10 - 15% above your maintenance) and unless you're purposefully avoiding protein sources you should be fine.

[bwidger]

Caloric surplus, which most likely entails sufficient protein macros anyway, unless you are on an unrealistic diet of cakes and PopTarts all day.

I read somewhere that 1 lb of muscle contains 100g protein and every month you can only gain 1 lb of pure muscle. Why is it then people consume way over that amount of protein everyday then? What do you guys think about this?

[phal]

I read somewhere that 1 lb of muscle contains 100g protein and every month you can only gain 1 lb of pure muscle. Why is it then people consume way over that amount of protein everyday then? What do you guys think about this?

Whether that's entirely accurate or not (depends on how long the person has trained etc) - I'd rather have a little too much protein, instead of being "under."

That being said some people take it to the extreme, but that's the case for literally everything in life.

[PerpetualHeaven]

I read somewhere that 1 lb of muscle contains 100g protein and every month you can only gain 1 lb of pure muscle. Why is it then people consume way over that amount of protein everyday then? What do you guys think about this?

Disregard whatever you read. You can build (this varies, but this is a general number for a first year lifter) roughly 2lbs of muscle/month which equates to about 24lbs in your first year. Like Phal said, go into a slight surplus and don't worry too much about protein intake. Unless you're a vegetarian, you're probably going to hit your protein pretty easily. You should probably count for the first while just to make sure, though. As for not having enough calories (deficit) making you catabolic... Well, I wouldn't say catabolic. Yeah, you'll be losing weight, but macros/micros help to determine where that comes from.

[bwidger]

Whether that's entirely accurate or not (depends on how long the person has trained etc) - I'd rather have a little too much protein, instead of being "under."

That being said some people take it to the extreme, but that's the case for literally everything in life.

First of all, I want to thank you for helping me answer these questions...

Sure, people go to extremes in life but that doesn't make it right. I'd hate to spend and eat a certain amount of proteins/calories a day if it isn't necessary. It is like the whole bodybuilding world is confused and take more than what they need (no offense to anyone here - just speaking generally).

Anyone else's thoughts on this? People say to eat at least 1g of protein per lb body weight per day but yet you can only naturally gain 1-2lbs a month. Why not just eat 10 grams protein a day and that be good enough then? Why is everyone taking well over that amount a day if it isn't necessary? It seems like everyone has their own reasoning on this but that doesn't mean it is right.

[PerpetualHeaven]

First of all, I want to thank you for helping me answer these questions...

Sure, people go to extremes in life but that doesn't make it right. I'd hate to spend and eat a certain amount of proteins/calories a day if it isn't necessary. It is like the whole bodybuilding world is confused and take more than what they need (no offense to anyone here - just speaking generally).

Anyone else's thoughts on this? People say to eat at least 1g of protein per lb body weight per day but yet you can only naturally gain 1-2lbs a month. Why not just eat 10 grams protein a day and that be good enough then? Why is everyone taking well over that amount a day if it isn't necessary? It seems like everyone has their own reasoning on this but that doesn't mean it is right.

You must have misunderstood him. He did NOT say consume 10g of protein per day while bulking. If you do that you'll just get fat, I promise. 1g of protein per pound of LBM or per pound of weight is much more reasonable than what some people do. A lot of people aim for 2g/lb of body weight, which I believe to be a little overboard. Just hit your weight in protein and you'll be solid.

[bwidger]

Disregard whatever you read. You can build (this varies, but this is a general number for a first year lifter) roughly 2lbs of muscle/month which equates to about 24lbs in your first year. Like Phal said, go into a slight surplus and don't worry too much about protein intake. Unless you're a vegetarian, you're probably going to hit your protein pretty easily. You should probably count for the first while just to make sure, though. As for not having enough calories (deficit) making you catabolic... Well, I wouldn't say catabolic. Yeah, you'll be losing weight, but macros/micros help to determine where that comes from.

This is a great answer (hopefully). It seems reasonable to me at least.

For god sake, it just seems like protein is over-hyped, and probably only to sell and make money.

[bwidger]

You must have misunderstood him. He did NOT say consume 10g of protein per day while bulking. If you do that you'll just get fat, I promise. 1g of protein per pound of LBM or per pound of weight is much more reasonable than what some people do. A lot of people aim for 2g/lb of body weight, which I believe to be a little overboard. Just hit your weight in protein and you'll be solid.

Yes, I understand this, but don't you see the flaw in mathematics here? If you can only gain 1-2lbs of muscle a month then why take more than 10-20g protein a day? Wouldn't more protein daily be a waste then?

[PerpetualHeaven]

This is a great answer (hopefully). It seems reasonable to me at least.

For god sake, it just seems like protein is over-hyped, and probably only to sell and make money.

Unfortunately, Protein and Fat are the only essential macronutrients. :P Protein is highly regarded for multiple reasons. It aids in maintaing/building muscle mass, fat loss, etc. Protein powder isn't the only form of protein, if that's what you're thinking of. Meat is abundant in protein, as are other things such as lentils, quinoa, beans, eggs, milk, cheese, etc. It's pretty easy to hit your protein intake, but it's a little more expensive up here in Canada than it would be in the States. Whey protein is only meant to help you hit your protein easier in situations where you don't want to cook, you need a pretty pure protein source (some wheys have awful macros, though), and other things like that, but they are by no means necessary for cutting/bulking. It's the same concept as a multi-vitamin. A multi-vitamin is there if you're not hitting your micronutrients through vegetables, so you would take a multi to try and compensate for this. I, as would many other people, suggest hitting your micronutrients through whole foods as the bioavailability of most multis are lacking. I believe Alan Aragon prefers Kirkland Signature multivitamins over most other brands. I hope this answers any and all questions you have.

[bwidger]

Unfortunately, Protein and Fat are the only essential macronutrients. :P Protein is highly regarded for multiple reasons. It aids in maintaing/building muscle mass, fat loss, etc. Protein powder isn't the only form of protein, if that's what you're thinking of. Meat is abundant in protein, as are other things such as lentils, quinoa, beans, eggs, milk, cheese, etc. It's pretty easy to hit your protein intake, but it's a little more expensive up here in Canada than it would be in the States. Whey protein is only meant to help you hit your protein easier in situations where you don't want to cook, you need a pretty pure protein source (some wheys have awful macros, though), and other things like that, but they are by no means necessary for cutting/bulking. It's the same concept as a multi-vitamin. A multi-vitamin is there if you're not hitting your micronutrients through vegetables, so you would take a multi to try and compensate for this. I, as would many other people, suggest hitting your micronutrients through whole foods as the bioavailability of most multis are lacking. I believe Alan Aragon prefers Kirkland Signature multivitamins over most other brands. I hope this answers any and all questions you have.

While your information is accurate, I'm sure, your still missing my main question: If you can only gain 1-2lbs of muscle a month then why take more than 10-20g protein a day?

Maybe I'm missing something here. The only extra bit of information that protein seems reasonable for is helping to lose fat. Your answers are valuable to me, but I still see more than 10-20g of protein daily as a flawed analogy if you can only naturally gain 1-2 lbs protein monthly.

**My only reasonable guess as to why people suggest 1-2g protein per lb body weight is because while it may take 100g of protein to build 1 lb of muscle, you need more than 10-20g per day because the body uses much more for other reasons such as digestion, etc. So in other words, as an example, taking 200g protein a day we can say 150g goes towards digestion and other bodily functions while the rest is used specifically on muscle repairs. Would this be an accurate description? I will research more into this...

[PerpetualHeaven]

While your information is accurate, I'm sure, your still missing my main question: If you can only gain 1-2lbs of muscle a month then why take more than 10-20g protein a day?

Maybe I'm missing something here. The only extra bit of information that protein seems reasonable for is helping to lose fat. Your answers are valuable to me, but I still see more than 10-20g of protein daily as a flawed analogy if you can only naturally gain 1-2 lbs protein monthly.

Unfortunately, I personally can't explain why you require that much protein as I haven't delved too deep into the science of those numbers. Here, let Lyle McDonald answer your question:

The point being that some people just don’t get enough protein. As with sufficient calories, adequate protein is critical for gains in muscle mass. The common number that is thrown out is 1 g/lb body mass and this is a good starting place. As I detail in The Protein Book, raising protein to 1.5 g/lb (another common value) may have small, cumulative benefits that current research can’t turn up. It usually can’t hurt unless it prevents sufficient intake of the other nutrients.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...-mistakes.html

While not answering your question in detail, it still gives you a suggestion as to how much to consume. What you need to realize is that protein isn't just used to maintain muscle mass, but it also maintains skin, hair, etc. Protein is the building block of most things within the human body. You're not gaining 1-2lbs of protein, you're gaining 1-2lbs of muscle, there's a difference. When you participate in resistance training, you create microtears within your muscles. The protein, therefore, is used to repair the muscle tissue. The amount of protein you take in doesn't ONLY build muscle, but it also MAINTAINS the muscle, hair, skin, etc. I hope this helps.

[bwidger]

What you need to realize is that protein isn't just used to maintain muscle mass, but it also maintains skin, hair, etc. Protein is the building block of most things within the human body.

This is about the only reason I can think of as to why you need more than 10-20g protein daily for muscle growth; because a majority of protein must be used throughout the body first before aiding in muscle growth alone.

If this is the case then it has answered my question. I will research more into this to make sure.


** OK, yeah, because I'm an idiot on protein I realize now that most of the protein goes towards other functions of the body. I see why people need at least 1g protein per lb body weight now. duh :P

[JanesLastResort]

Both.

[peanut-butter]

Sufficient calories with a non-optimal amount of protein > More then an optimal amount of protein without sufficient calories.