John Broz interview

[buddymander]

Never mind, already answered.

[crackyflipside]

Do you think its a good idea to squat everyday even with powerlifting type squats that put more stress on the lower back?

He already answered: "Not sure, never did them but I would assume 6/wk would be ok. The polish and greek team were going to max BS 17x/wk."

[crackyflipside]

Should you do both front and back squat to daily max, then do working sets with doubles everyday? Is it the same if the lifter has weak legs? (I know, a weightlifter with weak legs is like a thrower with no arms LOL)

How long should breaks be in between the different exercises?

[numinti]

Mr Broz.

I ve been always interested in such a training philosophy. I like that attitude, weightlifting is a job so there is no excuses just lift every day day by day same like people work in heavy trades, lumberjacks etc.

However there ar some questions that bother me.

1. Doesnt that kind of do or die training attitude destroy body faster same like heavy physical work. I mean if you dont compete but you want to still lift when you ar 60 just because you like it and you are addicted to training. Of course strongest will survive but what about average joe (genetically) with no special predispositions to strength sports ( small wrists, sensitive joints knees etc)

2. Your philosophy seems to me bulgarian plus lots of volume. Up to 50 reps thats a lot 10x3 id only 30. So for me it is bulgarian maximum single thing plus a lot of back off work taken from Russia, Poland etc. Im polish so i see that volume work in the club however periodized (no maxing out all the time but lots lots of reps and assistance work). These back off sets of 2-3 or more reps do you push them to the limit also?

3. Where is the limit of volume? If you go twice a day to maximum single plus volume work, could we theoretically say that some proffesional lifters that have time could adapt to 3-4 sessions a day with maxes and lots of volume in every session like you have 2 and just lift andt lift all day every day. How do you find that thin line when you say yes now it is enough of work for that day. theoreticcaly if 4 sessions is better that 2 and 14 better than 7 why not do 30 sessions a week? You say dark times come but the body adapt finally for those with desire to win.

4. Finally I am lifting but I am also interested in good metabolic aerobic and anaerobic conditioning for health . How to combine weightlifting and for example repetitive sprints and interval runs. Do you have any experience or thoughts regarding conditioning when trying to be good at lifting. Should working and pushing through plateau do the job for conditioning? Lets say lifting every day to the limit and doing conditioning sessions every day.

Thank you for your reply.

[1369phil]

Mr Broz - thanks for the inspiration - it kind of puts my 20+ years of lifting in perspective when I see Pat Mendes lifting.

As with many people I have questions !

Hopefully you'll have got the message that many people cant believe the way you work out - thinking back I think the great Bench presser Jim Williams used to bench daily and he hit near 700lbs in a t-shirt in the 60's

Like many people here I cannot get to the gym twice a day 7 times a week - how would you set up a powerlifter or weightlifter who trains 3-4 times a week ? I presume you'll tell me that'd be the limiting factor in gaining ?

When you talk about working to a max, do you mean working to a true one rep limit lift, or a best double or triple ?

How often do your lifters actually hit a PR ?

Do you approach the squat differently from the C&J or snatch as there's a bit more weight and it's a bit more stressful (less technical) - you mention backing off from deadlifts as they're stressy on the back, CNS (if you want to call it that) ?

I ask this as I (as an awful olympic lifter) could try a limit clean many times and miss it - if I tried a limit squat many times I'd have to be carried out of the gym.

What do your guys do to maximise recovery outside of the gym ?

What makes you choose doubles, triples, fives or tens in your "back-off" sets ?

Do you rotate them ? (a day of 5's, a day of 10's etc)

What are you guys most common injuries ?

[BrozKnows]

Should you do both front and back squat to daily max, then do working sets with doubles everyday? Is it the same if the lifter has weak legs??

Either front or back, same program. Only diff is FS depends more on upper back strength, so it fatigues usually before the legs so BS is more suitable for higher volume. IF the lifter has weak legs, then the only thing they should be concerned with is a pillow and trash can. Sleep by the rack and squat til you puke.

How long should breaks be in between the different exercises?

If you have the time, Ideally between SN and CJ 15-20 min. Between the lifts and squats is the same as time normally between any sets 2-3 min.

[BrozKnows]

I ve been always interested in such a training philosophy. I like that attitude, weightlifting is a job so there is no excuses just lift every day day by day same like people work in heavy trades, lumberjacks etc.

I've used a similar example. I agree 1000%

1. Doesnt that kind of do or die training attitude destroy body faster same like heavy physical work. I mean if you dont compete but you want to still lift when you ar 60 just because you like it and you are addicted to training. Of course strongest will survive but what about average joe (genetically) with no special predispositions to strength sports ( small wrists, sensitive joints knees etc)

It does break the body down faster but that is the whole concept. When you smash yourself your body responds by getting stronger and adapting to the work/volume/intensity. I have been around others who lived this training philosophy and are older now. They are fully functional and in good shape (or in as good as shape as they choose to be - not limited by any body limitations, only desire)

I personally am not a gifted athlete. I was the pencil neck geek in school. I was 6'3, 162# in high school. The LAST sport I should have chosen was OL. I have tiny joints, etc. What happens if you are NOT "predisposed" to strength sports is that you will simply never lift World Records or squat 350 raw. Your limitations as an athlete will result in you simply lifting less.

2. Your philosophy seems to me bulgarian plus lots of volume. Up to 50 reps thats a lot 10x3 id only 30. So for me it is bulgarian maximum single thing plus a lot of back off work taken from Russia, Poland etc. Im polish so i see that volume work in the club however periodized (no maxing out all the time but lots lots of reps and assistance work). These back off sets of 2-3 or more reps do you push them to the limit also?

I was coached by Antonio Krastev. This is exactly a bulgarian program. IF you don't think they did volume, I can tell you stories that he told me that are almost unbelievable.

The sets of 2's or 3's should be tough, but NOT a grind. This is where coaching comes in.

3. Where is the limit of volume? If you go twice a day to maximum single plus volume work, could we theoretically say that some proffesional lifters that have time could adapt to 3-4 sessions a day with maxes and lots of volume in every session like you have 2 and just lift andt lift all day every day. How do you find that thin line when you say yes now it is enough of work for that day. theoreticcaly if 4 sessions is better that 2 and 14 better than 7 why not do 30 sessions a week? You say dark times come but the body adapt finally for those with desire to win.

Antonio told me that in his best shape,after years of this program, he was training 3x/day M-F and 2x sat and sun. No matter how much more volume Ivan added to his program it was IMPOSSIBLE for him to get sore. You would only get tired from the amount of work performed and that would eventually be the limiting factor.

Pat, along with a few others here I noticed have begun to adapt to this. Probably in a few years they will be the same. Lifting machines.

The daily limit etc. is why I am there. It is something that I make the call on based on performance and attitude.

4. Finally I am lifting but I am also interested in good metabolic aerobic and anaerobic conditioning for health . How to combine weightlifting and for example repetitive sprints and interval runs. Do you have any experience or thoughts regarding conditioning when trying to be good at lifting. Should working and pushing through plateau do the job for conditioning? Lets say lifting every day to the limit and doing conditioning sessions every day.

Thank you for your reply.

If you are trying to be great at something, then do that. If you want to cross train to be more "crossfit" then add in whatever you feel like you need/want. swimming is always a great supplement to WL because there is no impact and requires an enormous amount of aerobic ability.

[BrozKnows]

how would you set up a powerlifter or weightlifter who trains 3-4 times a week

depending on what condition level they are currently at, I would start there and gradually add in as much volume/intensity over time that the days and time allow. At some point the time will be a limiting factor, but for most that usually wont happen for a while.

When you talk about working to a max, do you mean working to a true one rep limit lift, or a best double or triple ?

that days SRM. sometimes I hold the lifter back to build a fire to try harder the next time but again this is instinctive and not usual. There is no cookie cutter program.

How often do your lifters actually hit a PR ?

Depending on the lifter, their stage in learning and the lift, I've seen as long as 4 months to PR a lift and I've also seen PR's every workout in one of the exercises for over a month straight.

Do you approach the squat differently from the C&J or snatch as there's a bit more weight and it's a bit more stressful (less technical) -

you mention backing off from deadlifts as they're stressy on the back, CNS (if you want to call it that) ?

Squats take no or very little mental energy or stress on the CNS. squatting heavy should become as regular as a walk down the street.

I back off the DL because slow pulls with the wrong positions is not helpful for an OL. I would believe that if you wanted to be great in DL and tried this approach as an experiment, taking your time to increase volume and intensity that eventually you would adapt to heavy max DL daily as well. IMO we don't need it so I have never tried.

I ask this as I (as an awful olympic lifter) could try a limit clean many times and miss it - if I tried a limit squat many times I'd have to be carried out of the gym.

What do your guys do to maximise recovery outside of the gym ?

What makes you choose doubles, triples, fives or tens in your "back-off" sets ?
Do you rotate them ? (a day of 5's, a day of 10's etc)

What are you guys most common injuries ?

This is normal. I usually only allow 6 attempts at max SN or CJ. The BS or FS only 1 or rarely 2 misses is allowed to daily max. The conditioning itself, not technique will regulate this.

I emphasize consistency. sleep, eat, train, repeat. Same time every day. Whatever they do outside of the gym I ask that they do it repetitively consistent. Only then can we narrow down single items to work on to lift more weight.

I don't have any kind of rotation or set # of reps/day. It drives the guys crazy because each day they don't know what I will have them do. They try to guess, but rarely successfully. I go by how they look, act, attitude, speed of lifts, and overall volume that they were able to accomplish in the workout prior to finishing with squats. example: if snatches and / or cleans were not good, I might skip the 2's after max and make up for the volume in squats

Seems like almost everyone has, of all things wrist issues. This is more common than any other .

[numinti]

Mr Broz

Thank you for your reply. Very interesting post and mental revolution for many people interested in the sport of weightlifting and other strength sports.

I have heard that turkish weightlifting school have gone even furter that bulgarians and the Turks excluded back squats from routines. So they do only snatch, clean and jerk and front squat only.

Is the back squat necessary in weightlifting training?
If you you don't use clean and snatch pulls (or don't use on daily basis), is it possible in your opinion to achieve best results depending on front squat and classical lifts exclusively?

Why do not use snatch and clean pulls every day?

Going even further into specificity, can one do only clean and jerk and snatch in training like in joe mills program. Snatch and clean and jerk every day to the limit. From my experience when I skip squats my lifts go down and I loose confidence for big weights. So squats- the maximum strength exercise, push everything forward. What are your thoughts about that?

Thank you.

[crackyflipside]

Is the back squat necessary in weightlifting training?

He sort of answered this one before: "Only diff is FS depends more on upper back strength, so it fatigues usually before the legs so BS is more suitable for higher volume."

[numinti]

According to what has been said, bulgarian training used by coach Broz and his lifters relies on adaptation to a daily or multiple daily training (high intensity and high volume day by day with no excuses) and specificity (using classical lifts and very little or no assistance).

With that said, isn't the front squat more specific to olympic lifting that back squat? Recovering from cleans, rack position etc. With adaptation theory lifter can condition his upper body to maintain right position during high volume front squats. Just do it over and over again until upper body is strong as steel and can support strong legs without being limiting factor. So if that could be true, what is tha advantage of back squat. Variety? Bigger weights? Does it build more pulling power because of different body leverages? Is the front squat to hard on chest and shoulders to do high volume after cleans? These are only free thoughts and theory because I am not a coach but would be very nice to hear opinions from experienced proffesionals.

Again if we have 2 lifters and one does FS and BS and another use all time to FS every day twice a day wouldn't the second one have more specific squatting strength. Or squat is a squat and results are the same. Or we use BS because it is fun to squat big weight on the back and we need general strength builder and the best choice ever is BS? What do we miss in our training without BS.

I was always curious why bulgarians used BS with that specifity theory and why they used power versions of the lifts in the same time not using ny other assistance or not on regular basis. Why use power clean but not use clean pull at all. They even put the back squat as a first exercise in training as i have read somewhere, so they had to believe it is very important exercise. On the other hand as we know some lifters with enormous back squat are not the best clean and jerkers. Also some believe that power versions of the lifts are teaching the body wrong movements, so you build power but forget how to dip quick under the bar for squat clean or split jerk for example.

Feel free to comment

[Donut62]

Good read. Very interesting stuff.

John,

How do you have your lifters peak for a meet or going for a contest max? Do you decrease the frequency of training, the intensity, or some combination thereof or none of the above?

[1369phil]

Again if we have 2 lifters and one does FS and BS and another use all time to FS every day twice a day wouldn't the second one have more specific squatting strength. Or squat is a squat and results are the same. Or we use BS because it is fun to squat big weight on the back and we need general strength builder and the best choice ever is BS? What do we miss in our training without BS.


Feel free to comment

Earlier in the thread the coach said that FS is stressy on the upper back and it has a tendency to make the o-lifts suffer (if done loads) - BS clearly gives the benefits of leg strength plus (I guess) far more low back/posterior chain work than FS and (I guess again) has more "carry over" for the lifts for the cost (in terms of energy and time)

Interesting stuff this is !

[BrozKnows]

With that said, isn't the front squat more specific to olympic lifting that back squat? Recovering from cleans, rack position etc. With adaptation theory lifter can condition his upper body to maintain right position during high volume front squats. Just do it over and over again until upper body is strong as steel and can support strong legs without being limiting factor. So if that could be true, what is tha advantage of back squat. Variety? Bigger weights? Does it build more pulling power because of different body leverages? Is the front squat to hard on chest and shoulders to do high volume after cleans?

Again if we have 2 lifters and one does FS and BS and another use all time to FS every day twice a day wouldn't the second one have more specific squatting strength. Or squat is a squat and results are the same. Or we use BS because it is fun to squat big weight on the back and we need general strength builder and the best choice ever is BS? What do we miss in our training without BS.

I was always curious why bulgarians used BS with that specifity theory and why they used power versions of the lifts in the same time not using ny other assistance or not on regular basis. Why use power clean but not use clean pull at all. They even put the back squat as a first exercise in training as i have read somewhere, so they had to believe it is very important exercise. On the other hand as we know some lifters with enormous back squat are not the best clean and jerkers. Also some believe that power versions of the lifts are teaching the body wrong movements, so you build power but forget how to dip quick under the bar for squat clean or split jerk for example.

Feel free to comment

The Front squat has a carry over to the clean where the BS has a carry over to the snatch so both are important.

There are lifters that can FS 100kg more than they clean and believe it or not, some that can clean MORE than their best FS. American Jeff Michaels was one of them.

I believe that BS are essential because of these reasons:
1) FS fatigue your upper back so your legs never get the volume they need to get stronger fast enough. Your back will always be the limiting factor, not your legs.

2) Doing just the lifts your CNS will limit the amount of volume you will be able to do. When you are totally busted down and thinking about jumping under a heavy snatch just won't happen you can always go squat, squat, squat to get in more work which is essential. BS are just too easy on other parts of your body and I believe a fundamental necessity to get overall power and work volume.

3) The confidence of knowing that you can squat 300 makes cleaning 210 seem very light mentally, whereas if your best FS is 220, 210 might not seem possible.

Having said this, I have tried eliminating BS for 18 months, training everyday. In that time my FS PR only went up 5kg and my lifts didn't move very much. Following this period, the first day I tried BS I got crushed with 20 kg less than I could do for reps prior. For the next 18 months I did only BS. I improved my PR by 25 kg. Within 2 workouts of adding FS back into the program I did a 10kg FS PR. So I believe that doing both will yield the best results, as long as BS are more frequent than FS.

[BrozKnows]

1-Is the back squat necessary in weightlifting training?

2-If you you don't use clean and snatch pulls (or don't use on daily basis), is it possible in your opinion to achieve best results depending on front squat and classical lifts exclusively?

3-Why do not use snatch and clean pulls every day?

4-Going even further into specificity, can one do only clean and jerk and snatch in training like in joe mills program. Snatch and clean and jerk every day to the limit. From my experience when I skip squats my lifts go down and I loose confidence for big weights. So squats- the maximum strength exercise, push everything forward. What are your thoughts about that?

Thank you.

1) YES, BS is ESSENTIAL - see other post response above

2) NO, because BS is ESSENTIAL.

3) you do - every single time you take a Snatch or C/J attempt.

4) Ivan Abadjiev, Head coach for Bulgaria for MANY years and probably the best weightlifting coach in history has said that he was progressing his programs over the years and was eventually headed toward the day when his lifters did only the snatch and c/j. nothing else, not even FS or BS. Although he never tried this program extensively he believed it could work. I personally don't think so, but that's my .02

[BrozKnows]

Good read. Very interesting stuff.

John,

How do you have your lifters peak for a meet or going for a contest max? Do you decrease the frequency of training, the intensity, or some combination thereof or none of the above?

I have tried many different ways, and depending on their fitness level at the time (all lifters are at different stages unfortunately) it varies.

The frequency however remains constant

The intensity decreases from between 3-6 days out depending on lifter. Usually final max attempts in training will be 6 day out. lifters in better shape will be closer to 2-3.

The volume decreases as well- gradually starting 15 days out, again depending on conditioning. better lifters will be more like 8-10 days out.

[southbankwulf]

hi john,

i was just wondering how you would go about training for strongman? still train twice per day? what lifts you would do ect.

very interesting reading this. thanks.

[ukstrongman]

hi john,

i was just wondering how you would go about training for strongman? still train twice per day? what lifts you would do ect.

very interesting reading this. thanks.

x2 on this one John. Thanks buddy

[BrozKnows]

hi john,

i was just wondering how you would go about training for strongman? still train twice per day? what lifts you would do ect.

very interesting reading this. thanks.

x2 on this one John. Thanks buddy

Powerlifter- the same approach I take now and do it with the 3 lifts, but the bench would only be 3x/week. smaller muscles need a bit more time.

Strongman - I would train just like we do except drop the snatches and add power clean with push presses. 2/wk I would do grip work- no more than that. 2x/mo I would do the actual strongman exercises until getting close to a meet when I would focus more on volume and not on maximum lifts for the aerobic benefit needed for those meets.

this is further back in the thread

[southbankwulf]

opps must have missed it. thanks alot.

[deathhand]

hi mr broz
could you (or anyone else) refer me to an article or book to read up on the bulgarian training method?

[BeefyStew]

This post and your responses feels like you're calling me a pussy. I like that. Few questions:

1. How much has Pat's/other lifters BS SRM increased over the past year?

2. How would you progress a weak lifter (read: me, 130kg BS) who squats twice a weak to squatting 6x a week? Just man up and lift or do your newbies follow some kind of progression to build their work capacity?

Really appreciate your candor. A lot of this flies in the face of whats out there, and I'm curious to see if I'm up to the challenge.

[The_cannibal]

I think that something a lot of people need to realize, and I'm sure Mr Broz would agree with me, is: the principle of progressive increase in load of training.

Someone who's trained since he was 10 y.o. will be able to train a lot more by the time he's 19-20, than someone who doesn't have the same experience. That is, as long as that person (or his/her coach) had a long term view of training and gradually increased volume, frequency and intensity over the years.

As a strength athlete, I truly s*ck, but as a cyclist, I used to train 5-8 hours a day, 6-7 days a week during volume phases, mostly because I had decades of training in me, and I had genetics for endurance sports. This is why I've decided to go back to endurance sports, after getting nothing but injuries and little strength gains for the last 4 years, and this is why I don't post here quite as much/often as I used to.

Whether or not you accept it, genetics is 80% of one's progress and results... training is only a mere 20%. I thought about writing an article on genetics, in line with all the other articles I wrote on this board, but it came out as way too complicated for the laymen. I might publish it eventually, but I'd first need to put more time on it, to format it and make it more understandable.

[BrozKnows]

hi mr broz
could you (or anyone else) refer me to an article or book to read up on the bulgarian training method?

I don't know of any.

[BrozKnows]

This post and your responses feels like you're calling me a pussy. I like that. Few questions:

1. How much has Pat's/other lifters BS SRM increased over the past year?

2. How would you progress a weak lifter (read: me, 130kg BS) who squats twice a weak to squatting 6x a week? Just man up and lift or do your newbies follow some kind of progression to build their work capacity?

Really appreciate your candor. A lot of this flies in the face of whats out there, and I'm curious to see if I'm up to the challenge.

When pat walked into my gym he did a SRM of 220. Now he is at 350 and it's been 19 months. Taylor, another guy started the same time as Pat but only for 11 months. His SRM was 130-35. He got pinned with 140. Within the 11 months he did 210 BS, 185 Fs, snatch 135 C/J 160 cleaned 165. He was also a full time college student studying Physics and Math and worked construction that summer. Pat has no job and no school so recovery is easier for him with his daily naps and no distractions. Taylor = approx 6.8kg/month and Pat = 6.8kg/month. Their results are pretty typical of the others.

I have a 16 yr old girl bdwt 63 kg. been training for 2 months. Her SRM was the bar when she lost her balance and couldn't even stand with it. Now she is FS 65x3x3, Bs 85x2x2. I switch FS and BS daily for her and she is up to 5 x/wk squatting now. Hopefully by spring she will be doing 7x/wk and more volume.


I don't know how old you are and anything else about your training so it would be pretty irresponsible to tell you how to progress without doing my homework first. I will say this, if you are not injured, then you should be at the gym training. I have everyone at the gym do some kind of squat daily. FS, BS, or both. Doing either max, reps or both. Depending on where they are beginning depends on how much volume etc.

[Ka0s]

I love your approach on training, Mr. Broz, and it seems like you are producing some awesome athletes as well. No questions, just letting you know

[BrozKnows]

I think that something a lot of people need to realize, and I'm sure Mr Broz would agree with me, is: the principle of progressive increase in load of training.

Someone who's trained since he was 10 y.o. will be able to train a lot more by the time he's 19-20, than someone who doesn't have the same experience. That is, as long as that person (or his/her coach) had a long term view of training and gradually increased volume, frequency and intensity over the years.

I couldn't agree more

genetics is 80% of one's progress and results... training is only a mere 20%

I think that if you started riding your cycle when you were very young and you trained your body to adapt to those rigorous and demanding conditions during your forming (pre pubescent and pubertal) years, then that is why you could not reprogram it to a great success. I truly believe that when your body is developing and it doesn't know what to expect yet from life or this world, that whatever you introduce to it at that young crucial age that IT will be the second nature to that person. That you will have grown 'into' whatever it was that you pushed so hard for. IF you had a clone of yourself at the age of 6 and had them do weightlifting instead of riding a bike - ever - do you think the end result would be the same as far as your lifting? Is it genetics or just years of training and conditioning during growing times that are now simply irreversible no matter how hard you try?

[endpoint]

hi mr broz
could you (or anyone else) refer me to an article or book to read up on the bulgarian training method?

Read some of this:

http://www.mikesgym.org/articles/index.php

[numinti]

I am not an olympic lifter, but I use olympic lifts as good as I can for improving my athletic ability, strength and power. What is interesting me is also weightlifting methodology that can be used for general strength training. I have already adapted couple of months ago to benching squatting and deadlifting everyday with a high volume, 8-10 working sets of three. I was very tired but as coach Broz said PR were made in fatique state even if I felt really worn out. I have also tried SRM method but then withoug back off sets. Now inspired by coach Broz I m gonna test the following as a rest and change of pace from oly lifts:

every day:

1 Back squat
2 Military press
4 Deadlift
5 Bench press

All to max single plus up to 50 reps in sets of 2,3 back off sets mlifting done as explosively as it can be

second daily workout will be

repetitive sprints, go all out and as much volume as I can handle that is just to keep body fast and have good wind with this deads and squats and presses

advice appreciated

[Fluster]

If there's one thing this thread has taught me, it's to man the hell up and do more.

I will adapt.