Serious Discussion On HIT/Heavy Duty/Abbreviated Training

[all pro]

he said name one, junior seau and as far as mentioning who did one set to failure, all you would do is say they only did it for a few cycles or something.

But i can name, kevin hardy, walter mccarty, tony delk, jay cutler of the broncos, anythony munoz talked about hit training in a local football camp last year and was always a hit trainer, abbas khatami, usa national powerlifter david showtime anguish. Lee Labrada in his own words admitted he gained more muscle doing mentzer hit than any other routine and had to stop so he wouldn't get so big because he is a bodybuilder.
Brad Pitt did one set to failure with a rep speed of ten up and ten down for years.
Pro wrestler Brian Lawler, jeff jarrett both did hit training, as well as a few pro wrestlers i know in the lousville ky area that wrestle for ohio valley wrestling,
People that do lets say 135 for ten reps, 185 for 5 , 200 for 5 and then 225 to failure is pretty much warmup sets and one set to failure.
The workout Mohammed El Makkaway used in the late 90's and early 2000's when he made his come back was one set to failure training and in his own words he gained more mass on it in his 50's then the gironda routine he did in his 20's and 30s'.

If you read ironman magazine you see many articles of people that do one set training with an added 2nd set which is pretty much just a warmup set or one drop set throughout half the magazine.

Jeff Reinebold of the hawaii rainbows trains his players in one set to failure hit training for about 12 weeks a year, feel free to email him and ask.

Mitchell Sammons did hit training and trains his kickboxers with hit training.

Rick Pitino's basketball workout is pretty much a modified hit training routine and yes one set, no 2nd set.

Marty Simmons,university of evansville basketball team is currently doing one set to failure weight training. Seen it with my own eyes today since i was there and he pretty much started hit training because of my talk with him and reading up on hit training.

Jim Crews, head coach of Army's basketball team does hit training.

Mean joe greene, mike alstot, john philbin, greg kovacs did 2 sets and admitted he think he got the job done on one set but just did a second set just incase but probaly wasn't needed.

Kevin Blackburn of Memphis benched 600 in a recent competition in chicago and does one set to failure training at a bodyweight of 242.

Do you want me to name more and i don't have to name any if i don't want. the fact that the people i mentioned gained on hit means nothing as far as if it works or not.

LINKS becuase there is no way I'm going to take the word of a habitual liar. If you can't prove it, it didn't happen.

junior seau
hardy, walter mccarty, tony delk, jay cutler of the broncos,
Seau played for the Pats last year. He wasn't using HIT.
The bronco's don't use HIT.
Like I said if you can't prove it, it doesn't count because your word is worthless.
There are only 6 teams in the NFL using HIT and the Patriots and the Broncos aren't among the six....but thank you for playing.

Oh and 1 more time, SINGLE SET TOO FAILURE ONLY. Well that eliminates all 6 NFL HIT teams because they use multi set training.

[GuyJin]

Greg Kovacs? Wrong. He used multiple sets to warm up--sometimes four or five as he used a trmendous amount of weight for his max sets, and usually did his reps from 6-8. Then again, he was juicing from here to breakfast so how he trained is moot. Abbas Khatami (sic?)--yes; switched over to Mentzer-style training a few years back, don't know if he still does it. Other bodybuilders now? None; all use multiple sets AND warmup sets.

As for the pro wrestlers, links please. The modern football players you named, nope--the teams they play for all use mulitple sets.

Being boned constantly hurts, doesn't it, m ris...Still, you're right about one thing: Getting results on HIT--or any other programme--means nothing about the programmes efficacy itself, especially when drugs are involved.

[N@tural1]

lol as usual m_risinger is wrong, again.

[m_risinger]

i do mulitple sets to warmup too, when i leg press 1200 pounds, i will leg press 200, 400, 800 and 1000 before i do 1200 ,

ps: just because someone plays for a team means they train they way that team wants them too. Seau continues too train in hit style as well as jay cutler at the ymca in evanville indiana.

checkout mikementzer.com , or go to Bill Sahli's site if you want to see more about hit training and success stories.

[bango skank]

checkout mikementzer.com , or go to Bill Sahli's site if you want to see more about hit training and success stories.

I heard that's how jay got into hit, is that true? and that he gets regular "mike mentzer" dna treatments too. ya know, the double helix! i thknk that's swell.

[m_risinger]

jay cutler, i mean the qb of the broncos and i couldn't understand a word you said

[bango skank]

jay cutler, i mean the qb of the broncos and i couldn't understand a word you said

yeh, i agree with gene therapy too is swell

[N@tural1]

i do mulitple sets to warmup too, when i leg press 1200 pounds, i will leg press 200, 400, 800 and 1000 before i do 1200 ,

^^ sounds like traditional multi set pyramid training to me!

The 400, 800 and 1000 press will most certainly contribute to total tonnage or workload.

[Orlando1234977]

i do mulitple sets to warmup too, when i leg press 1200 pounds, i will leg press 200, 400, 800 and 1000 before i do 1200 ,

ps: just because someone plays for a team means they train they way that team wants them too. Seau continues too train in hit style as well as jay cutler at the ymca in evanville indiana.

checkout mikementzer.com , or go to Bill Sahli's site if you want to see more about hit training and success stories.

If you're considering only the failure sets to be work sets, then these days I too only train one set per exercise.

[N@tural1]

Its amazing what some would define as HIT. Some of these extreme HITers would say we ALL train HIT so long we fail on the last set!

[Squat-Man]

EXPLOSIVE LIFTING FOR MUSCLE GROWTH

The term ?tempo? is used to define the speed of movement of weight training exercises. More specifically, it is the rate of movement of the weight or limb involved in any strength training exercise. Most bodybuilders might change their exercise selection, sets, reps, and rest periods, but the one variable which has been largely overlooked, and which may significantly impact training results is the tempo of the exercises. For years, the standard repetition speed has been lift up or concentrically in two seconds and lower the weight slowly or eccentrically in four seconds, in a slow controlled manner for optimal muscle mass. Some top trainers have even taken this type of training a step further and developed what is known as SuperSlow training.

The interesting fact is that there is no research to validate that this tempo is the optimal pace to increasing muscle hypertrophy. According to a study published in the European Journal of Applied Physiology, lowering the weight slowly may not be the best way to increase muscle mass and strength. In that study, male and female subjects were assigned to train for 10 weeks to either two types of training: slow or fast velocity eccentric training. At the end of the study, the group that trained with fast eccentric contractions had the greatest increase in muscle hypertrophy. Muscle hypertrophy of the type IIB fibers (i.e. type IIB fibers are fast twitch fibers) increased from 6% to 13% in subjects. The slow group did not experience any gain in muscle mass (1).

This is not the only study to document training with fast eccentric contractions are best for increasing muscle mass. For example, Farthing et al. (25) reported similar finding in that fast eccentric lowering was superior to slow eccentric lowering. Men and women trained the same number of reps and sets but the only difference was the speed at which they performed the reps. The fast eccentric lowering group increased muscle hypertrophy by 13% whereas the slow eccentric group increased muscle hypertrophy by 7.8%.

In a follow up study by Farthing and colleagues, compared fast and slow training, a group of 12 untrained men exercised both arms three days per week for eight weeks (2). The men trained one arm using a fast velocity, while they did the same number of repetitions for the other arm at a slow velocity. At the end of the study, Type I muscle fibers increased in size by an average of 9% with no significant differences between fast or slow training. The change in fiber area after training for the type II fibers was greater in the fast-trained versus the slow-trained arm. In addition to greater increases in type IIb fibers, the fast eccentric contractions group increased strength to a greater extent than slow contractions.
Why Lift Fast And Explosive for Muscle Hypertrophy?

In order to induce hypertrophy, either exercise intensity or volume must be increased: most bodybuilders perform enough sets but may find difficulty increasing training intensity to make additional gains in strength and size. However, the amount of weight used cannot be increased, and an alternative method to increase intensity must be achieved. Moving the weight at a higher speed implies using more power, as explained above, and more power translates directly to a higher level of intensity. Speed training provides an alternative path to the progressive resistance principle, which states that in order to induce muscle hypertrophy, one has to constantly keep increasing the weight used. Muscle hypertrophy is defined as an increase in muscle mass that is related to two factors: the amount of workload employed and the tension developed during muscle contraction (3). Most bodybuilders focus mainly on workload or the amount of sets utilized during their training routine to increase muscle hypertrophy, seldom changing repetition speed. Speed training may develop motor unit recruitment patterns different from traditional weight training, thus potentiating better gains with subsequent regular training cycles.

According to Dr. Verkhoshansky, the tempo of resistance exercise has a significant effect on the development of muscular strength (this is because of fast twitch fiber enhancement). Dr. Verkhoshansky reported that a combination of different movement tempos produce superior gains in strength compared to a set tempo. In that study, over a 10-week study, the group of men that trained with a combination of tempos produced a 22-kg increase in strength, however using a standard tempo pace resulted in only a 16.3 kg increase in strength (4). The results of the study demonstrate the importance of changing repetition speed during a training cycle.

[Squat-Man]

The amount of weight lifted depends on the laws of physics. Simply, FORCE = MASS X ACCELERATION. This means the amount of force that you generate during weight lifting can be increased by either lifting more weight or lifting the same amount of weight at a faster speed. If you are performing the same number of reps with the same amount of weight but lifting it with more acceleration, you are producing more force- and this means larger central nervous system activation. This is not a new concept, in 1954 a study by Bigland-Ritchie and Lippold, demonstrated that the faster a weight is accelerated through a lift, the more nervous system activation is required for the movement (5). The more motor units or muscle fibers that are activated in a repetition, the greater the activation in the central nervous system. This represents an increase in training intensity. During muscle contraction, motor units or muscle fibers are recruited in relation to the force generated by the muscle. For example, during slow muscle contractions type I fibers are recruited but as workload increases more type IIa and finally IIb, fibers are recruited. This is a basic tenet of motor unit recruitment.

What is unique about eccentric contractions is there is some evidence to suggest that the size principle could be altered or even reversed during certain types of movements-specifically those that contain an eccentric (muscle lengthening) component-such that fast-twitch motor units are recruited before slow- twitch motor units (24). It is possible that a preferential recruitment of fast-twitch motor units is influenced by the speed of the eccentric contraction, and can only occur using moderate to fast speeds.

When examining the potential for hypertrophy between muscle fibers (i.e. slow type I and fast type II), there are differences. In general, Type IIb muscle fibers have the greatest potential for muscle hypertrophy yet are the last fibers to be recruited during a lift. This is a basic flaw in the SuperSlow training principles; with low force or slow activities, type I fibers are activated first then as the exercise becomes more fatiguing type IIa and then type IIb fibers are recruited later. When using fast explosive exercises, more fast twitch motor units are activated and more hypertrophy can occur. Hypertrophy will only occur in those muscle fibers that are overloaded, so that fast twitch fibers must be recruited during training in order for hypertrophy to occur (6). Most bodybuilders do not train explosively and can benefit from incorporating explosive multi-component plyometric or speed resistance movements into their training regimen. For example, most bodybuilders have increases in type IIa fibers that occur during resistance training studies with no changes in type IIb fibers (7). This may be partially due to using high volume (i.e. 5-8 sets) and high repetition (i.e. 10-15 reps) training. However, incorporating plyometrics and other explosive lifts may cause additional muscle growth of IIb fibers. For example, there have been numerous studies that have documented increases in type IIb fibers after explosive weight training (8, 9) and plyometrics (10, 11). For example, when male subjects performed plyometric training for three days a week for eight weeks resulted in significant increases in type IIb fiber hypertrophy and peak power production. The plyometric training consisted of vertical jumping, bounding, and depth jumping (22).

Type IIb fibers are utilized during high force generating movements. Just remember, for any given speed, the force production by the muscle increases with the percentage of fast twitch fibers and, conversely, at any given force output, the velocity increases with the percentage of fast twitch fibers. For example, look at the thighs of 100m sprinters compared to distance runners. World-class sprinters have legs that would make some bodybuilders jealous. Sprinters train fast and explosively, utilizing a much greater percentage of type IIa, and type IIb fibers during training, compared to distance runners who rely mainly on type I fibers. Sprinters train in the gym the way they run; fast and explosive. A typical sprinter trains with explosive squatting, lots of plyometric jumps, and bounding exercises. Training specificity states that you should weight train like you perform in your competitions. For example, basketball players were assigned to either train with traditional weight training or traditional weight training plus explosive eccentric plyometrics for six weeks. While both groups experienced increases in their vertical jump at the end of the study, the group that trained with weight training and plyometrics increased their mean overall vertical jump by 8% (26). Thus, high force eccentric training can increase gains and muscle power possibly by increasing muscle size.

[Squat-Man]

Why SuperSlow Training Does Not Work

SuperSlow Training (SST) involves performing reps very slowly, in a 4-1-10 tempo. That is a 10-second concentric movement per rep, a 1-second pause, and then a 10-second lowering movement. In SST, you take the momentum out of the movement and put all the tension on the muscle. Sounds good for muscle hypertrophy and metabolic responses right? It sounds good in theory but it just does not hold ground in research.

For example, researchers compared heart rate and oxygen consumption in seven young men who had been engaged in strength training for at least one year. In this study, each athlete completed two workouts designed to train all of their major muscle groups, one using a traditional-training technique and the other SST. The workouts were separated by a three-day interval and the subjects were randomly assigned to a treatment order ? either SST first or traditional training first. The exercises performed included leg extensions, bench presses, biceps curls, leg curls, French curls, bent rows, reverse curls, military presses, upright rows and squats. Heart rates and minute-by-minute oxygen-consumption rates were recorded during each workout and for 15 minutes after the sessions as well; blood-lactate levels were measured immediately after the training ended. When researchers attempted to determine how much resistance could be used during the performance of eight super-slow repetitions of the exercises, they found that none of the subjects could complete the required eight repetitions for any exercise with more than 30% of 1RM.

As an astute reader, you can immediately see how SST has a remarkably limiting impact on the training intensity. Using 30% of 1RM is considered a very light resistance, and the average intensity used by most athletes during strength and muscle hypertrophy workouts is about 80 % of 1RM. Remember, a large load (80% of a 1-RM) will lead to rapid recruitment of fast twitch motor units which have high growth potential. At the end of the study, total net energy expenditure was about 45% higher for the traditional weight training compared to SST. The lactate responses post-exercise was almost 2 times greater following the traditional weight training compared to SST (12). So much for SST for increasing metabolism.

In another investigation, the gains in strength associated with 10 weeks of traditional resistance training were compared with those using SST (13). The subjects were 14 women, aged 19-45 years, who were randomly assigned to either regular or SST. Both groups trained three times a week during the study period, performing leg presses, leg curls, leg extensions, anterior lateral pull-downs, bench presses, seated rows, biceps curls, and triceps extensions. After 10 weeks, the traditional group had improved 1RM significantly more than the SST for the bench press (34% vs. 11%), the anterior lat pull-down (27% vs. 12%), the leg press (33% vs. 7%), leg extensions (56% vs. 24%) and leg curls (40% vs. 15%). The traditional group?s improvement in total weight lifted was significantly greater than that of the SST (39% vs. 15%). Although proponents of SST may feel lifting slowly is harder, the training responses do not add up to increased training gains.
Why Eccentric Contractions are Best for Muscle Hypertrophy

So why is so important to emphasize explosive eccentric (ECC) contractions in your training routine. When comparing the amount of force that can be exerted by muscle contractions, ECC contractions yield higher force production than concentric (CON) contractions. When comparing maximal ECC contractions to maximal CON contractions, you can generally handle about 30-40% greater workloads during ECC contractions. Additionally, it has been reported that type II b fibers are more susceptible to eccentric exercise induced muscle damage than type I fibers, which may explain how fast ECC contractions induce muscle hypertrophy (23). The greater force producing capacity and higher degree of muscle damage can stimulate hypertrophy thru numerous mechanisms.
ECC Contractions and Muscle Protein Synthetic Rates

Animal and human studies have documented that protein synthesis rates increase dramatically after ECC exercise, whereas protein synthesis rates after CON exercise are not elevated to the same extent. Wong and Boothe (14, 15) reported that ECC contractions induce muscle tissue hypertrophy through protein kinetics that are different from those of CON training. In their study, rats performed 24 electronically induced contractions of either plantar flexion (gastrocnemius) or extensions (tibialis anterior) every four days for 10 weeks. The goal of the study was to measure acute (12-17 hours) and post-exercise (36-41 hour?s) protein synthesis rates of identical contraction times for both CON and ECC training as well as tissue hypertrophy. Acute CON contractions increased gastrocnemius protein synthesis rates by 38 % but CON training failed to produce muscle hypertrophy despite an increase in protein synthesis. Contrary to CON training, acute ECC training resulted in a significantly higher protein synthesis rate 58% compared to 38%. Post-exercise protein synthesis rates from ECC but not CON exercise resulted in increased protein synthesis rates for 36-41 hours after exercise. ECC exercise produced muscle hypertrophy, whereas the similar CON protocol failed to produce muscle hypertrophy. Protein synthesis increased in the tibialis anterior (TA) after as little as 1 minute of total contraction duration (24 repetitions) by 30% and 8 minutes of total contraction time (192 repetitions) further increased TA protein synthesis by 45% above controls.

[Squat-Man]

Taken together, when CON and ECC contractions are performed with the similar total contraction times the data suggest that ECC exercise may play a larger role in muscle hypertrophy than CON exercise due to greater myofibrilliar protein breakdown after exercise. It can therefore be hypothesized that ECC training could result in a more anabolic environment due to increased protein degradation that is followed by rapid increases in protein synthesis. The greater increase in protein synthetic rates is speculated to occur because ECC exercise causes more damage, which results in the turnover of proteins, which must be replaced by new proteins. It is the damage produced from ECC exercise that stimulates immunological mediators to remove damaged tissue and repair damaged tissues by the incorporation of new proteins.
ECC training and Muscle Hypertrophy

ECC contractions are not just important for muscle hypertrophy, but some research indicates that their role seems to be essential (18, 19). Cote et al. (19) tested sedentary subjects using maximal CON only training on an isokinetic strength training routine for 10 weeks. No significant changes in mean skeletal muscle fiber area (i.e. no muscle hypertrophy) were observed. Cote speculated that the reason isokinetic resistance equipment fail to produce tissue hypertrophy was due to the absence of ECC contractions in the training routine.

Hather et al. (17) documented that CON contractions without an ECC contraction failed to produce muscle tissue hypertrophy. Eight males trained unilateral leg extensions and leg press either with CON/ECC contractions or CON/CON (performed twice as many CON contractions) contractions for 4-5 sets and 6-12 reps two days a week for 19 weeks. Only the CON/ECC group showed an increase in mean fiber, whereas the group performing on CON contractions had no increase in muscle hypertrophy. Additionally, Hortobagyi et al. (20) had 15 males train either isokinetically CON or ECC for 12 weeks. Each subject trained with 4-6 sets of 8-12 reps; 3 times a week. At the end of 12 weeks, Type I fibers did not increase significantly in either group. The most interesting aspect of the study was that Type II fiber area increased 10 times more in the ECC group compared to the CON group.

In a similar study, Higbie et al. (21) had 16 women train isokinetically either CON or ECC. The subjects trained 3 times a week using 3 sets of 10 reps for 10 weeks. Quadriceps cross-sectional area measured by magnetic resonance imaging increased more in the ECC-training group (6.6%) than in the CON-training group (5.0%). One may speculate that ECC training produced greater hypertrophy because it produces greater torque; however, ECC training at low training intensities has also proven to stimulate muscle hypertrophy.
Incorporating Explosive Lifting Into Your Routine

Therefore, now that the science of explosive training has been presented, you are probably going to want to start incorporating some lifts into your routine. Plyometrics are a great for incorporating explosive eccentric exercise. An excellent reading resource for incorporating plyometrics into your training routine is Donald Chu's, PhD. book, Jumping into Plyometrics. Plyometrics are an exercise technique that incorporates a rapid eccentric contraction followed by an explosive concentric contraction. I would suggest a 6 x 10 Method for hypertrophy and strength. That is 6 sets consisting of 10 explosive reps. This type of training will recruit the motor units that possess both Type IIB and Type IIA muscle fibers, respectively. This is very important since the aforementioned fibers have the greatest potential for growth. Emphasize explosive muscle actions (lifting) during the set, which maximally recruits the motor units mentioned above. Make the rest period short since you will be performing 10 reps per set, the total duration of the set is very short (~9 seconds). This is imperative since the force producing capabilities fast twitch motor decrease at any time longer than approximately 10 seconds. Rest periods should be approximately 1 minute between sets.

[Squat-Man]

In conclusion, many bodybuilders and fitness oriented athletes alike would likely benefit from adding a few explosive type exercises to their training regimen such as plyometrics. In competitive athletics, when all other factors are equal, power is the deciding factor between winning and losing. The ability to generate concentric and eccentric force over a range of contraction velocities is often critical determinant of athletic success. For years, weight training was considered to slow an athlete down and make an athlete inflexible. Fifteen years ago, the University of Nebraska started training their football team using only the explosive Olympic lifts and the squat. Performing explosive lifts such as power cleans, jump squats, and depth jumps recruit entirely the fast twitch motor units. The training effect produced a stronger, faster, and more mobile athlete?and a winning record. Now, virtually all football teams incorporate Olympic lifts for explosive strength and power. Most bodybuilders never train with explosive eccentric contractions. The maximum force that a muscle can develop is attained during a rapid eccentric contraction. Incorporating these movements into your training routine will increase size and strength beyond traditional weight training.
References

1. Paddon-Jones D, Leveritt M, Lonergan A, Abernethy P. Adaptation to chronic eccentric exercise in humans: the influence of contraction velocity. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Sep;85(5):466-71.

2. Farthing JP, Chilibeck PD. The effect of eccentric training at different velocities on cross-education. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2003 Aug;89(6):570-7.

3. Glass DJ. Skeletal muscle hypertrophy and atrophy signaling pathways. Int J Biochem Cell Biol. 2005 Oct;37(10):1974-84.

4. Verkhoshanskii IuV, Biru AA. Patterns in the long-term body adaptation of the athlete to physical loads] Fiziol Cheloveka. 1987 Sep-Oct;13(5):811-8.

5. Bigland-Ritchie B./Lippold O. 1954 The Relation Between Force, Velocity, and Integrated Electrical Activity in Human Muscles. J.Physiol.123, 214-224.

6. Shoepe TC, Stelzer JE, Garner DP, Widrick JJ. Functional adaptability of muscle fibers to long-term resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Jun;35(6):944-51.

7. Jurimae J, Abernethy PJ, Quigley BM, Blake K, McEniery MT. Differences in muscle contractile characteristics among bodybuilders, endurance trainers and control subjects. Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol. 1997;75(4):357-62.

8. Hakkinen K, Pakarinen A, Kraemer WJ, Hakkinen A, Valkeinen H, Alen M. Selective muscle hypertrophy, changes in EMG and force, and serum hormones during strength training in older women. J Appl Physiol. 2001 Aug;91(2):569-80.

9. Hakkinen K, Kraemer WJ, Newton RU, Alen M. Changes in electromyographic activity, muscle fibre and force production characteristics during heavy resistance/power strength training in middle-aged and older men and women. Acta Physiol Scand. 2001 Jan;171(1):51-62.

10. LaStayo PC, Woolf JM, Lewek MD, Snyder-Mackler L, Reich T, Lindstedt SL. Eccentric muscle contractions: their contribution to injury, prevention, rehabilitation, and sport. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2003 Oct;33(10):557-71.

11. Lindstedt SL, Reich TE, Keim P, LaStayo PC. Do muscles function as adaptable locomotor springs?J Exp Biol. 2002 Aug;205(Pt 15):2211-6.

12. Hunter GR, Seelhorst D, Snyder S. Comparison of metabolic and heart rate responses to super slow vs. traditional resistance training. J Strength Cond Res. 2003 Feb;17(1):76-81.

13. Keeler LK, Finkelstein LH, Miller W, Fernhall B. Early-phase adaptations of traditional-speed vs. superslow resistance training on strength and aerobic capacity in sedentary individuals. J Strength Cond Res. 2001 Aug;15(3):309-14.

15. Wong, T.S., and Booth, F.W. Protein metabolism in rat tibialis anterior muscle after chronic eccentric exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 69:1718-1724, 1990b.

16. Wong, T.S., and Booth, F.W. Protein metabolism in rat gastrocnemius muscle after stimulated chronic concentric exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 69:1709-1717, 1990a.

17. Hather, B.M., Tesch, P.A., Buchanan, P., and Dudley, G.A. Influence of eccentric actions on skeletal muscle adaptations to resistance training. Acta. Physiol. Scand. 143(2):177-85, 1991.

18. Frenette, J., and Cote, C.H. Modulation of Structural Protein Content of the Myotendinous junction Following Eccentric Contractions. Int. J. Sports Med. 21: 313-320, 2000.

19. Cote, C., Simoneau, J.A., Lagasse, P., Boulay, M., Thibault, M.C., Marcotte, M., and Bouchard, B. Isokinetic strength training protocols: do they produce skeletal muscle hypertrophy? Arch. Phys. Med. Rehabil. 69:282-285, 1988.

20. Hortobagyi, T., Dempsey, L., Fraser, D., Zheng, D., Hamilton, G., Lambert, J., and Dohm, L. Changes in muscle strength, muscle fibre size and myofibrillar gene expression after immobilization and retraining in humans. The Journal of Physiology. 524.1, pp. 293-304, 2000.

21. Higbie, E, J., Cureton, K.J., Warren, G.L., and Prior, B.M. Effects of concentric and eccentric training on muscle strength, cross-sectional area, and neural activation. J. Appl. Physiol. 81(5): 2173-2181, 1996.

22. Potteiger, J.A., Lockwood, R.H., Haub,M.D., Dolezal, B.A., Almuzaini,K.S., Schroeder,J.M., Zebas,C.J. Muscle Power and Fiber Characteristics Following 8 Weeks of Plyometric Training The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. Volume 13, Number 3, 275-279, 1999.

23. Friden J. Changes in human skeletal muscle induced by long-term eccentric exercise. Cell Tissue Res. 1984;236(2):365-72.

24. Nardone A, Romano C, Schieppati M. Selective recruitment of high-threshold human motor units during voluntary isotonic lengthening of active muscles. J Physiol. 1989 Feb;409:451-71.

25. Farthing JP, Chilibeck PD. The effects of eccentric and concentric training at different velocities on muscle hypertrophy. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2003 Aug;89(6):578-86.

26. Lindstedt SL, Reich TE, Keim P, LaStayo PC. Do muscles function as adaptable locomotor springs? J Exp Biol. 2002 Aug;205(Pt 15):2211-6.

Link: http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...ing?page=0%2C0

[GuyJin]

Interesting post on the failure of SuperSlow training. Years ago, I tried the SuperSlow method for period of about three months, just for a change of pace and to see what benefits it would bring. After doing it twice a week and giving it my all, I ended up very deconditioned and weaker--MUCH weaker--than before. Started out great, then went downhill from thereon in.(Not that I was a giant in strength to begin with, but the results were ridiculous).

Even if SS does give some benefits such as less stress on the joints and a safer approach, my personal feeling is that it isn't very good for athletes or anyone trying to build muscle and strength. And even if you DO manage to build up to the levels of poundage that you did with conventional training, the time it would take wouldn't really be worth it. For seniors who are in poor shape or someone doing rehab, I feel it is excellent, but for a serious trainer, it is IMHO a waste of time.

[Kelei]

Explosive training has it's place, as does slow training, if a lifter is seeking strength, speed, power or exclusive high threshold fiber hypertrophy then explosive reps are great, if however you are seeking overall hypertrophy then you also need to perform some slower work to hypertrophy your lower threshold fibers.

Yes slow training can cause fiber conversion, but it's mainly CNS adaptions that take place during conversion, when a 2B fiber converts to a 2A fiber the CNS changes it's firing to a more endurance emphasis rather than speed/power, but the fiber remains equal size.

Many people think that when a 2B fiber converts to a 2A that it loses size, it's actually not true, in fact bodybuilders have a higher percentage of 2A fibers and a lower % of 2B fibers than most other strength athletes but still have larger muscles.

An untrained person has a higher percentage of 2B fibers than a bodybuilder does, a bodybuilder after several years of training will have very few actual 2B fibers left, instead they would of all converted to 2A fibers, a 2A fiber actually has a larger total hypertrophy potential, this may be confusing but let me explain, 2B fibers have a greater amount of sarcomere hypertrophy potential over 2A fibers, but 2A fibers have a vastly greater amount of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy potential.

2A fibers have a greater total hypertrophy potential (sarcomere and sarcoplasmic combined), basically I think each individual needs to decide how to train based on thier goals. If you are simply after speed/power then I advise you to train explosively and avoid fatigue, if you are simply after hypertrophy without the slightest care in the world for performance then you should be using more moderate rep speeds, after all, tension and force are directly related, if you are lifting fast you are generating less tension, if you are lifting slow you are generating more tension at the expense of force.

High levels of force generation stimulate CNS adaption (strength), high levels of tension stimulate muscular adaption (sarcomere hypertrophy). The reason why eccentrics cause more fiber damage is because during an eccentric contraction there is far less force being generated because the weight is actually moving backwards, this allows supramaximal tension to be placed upon the fibers performing the work.

[N@tural1]

Squat Man, have you got the link to that article? Thx man

[Squat-Man]

Squat Man, have you got the link to that article? Thx man

Britlifter ; I had given the link at the end of the last post but I guess you didn't notice.
Link: http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...ing?page=0%2C0

[N@tural1]

Britlifter ; I had given the link at the end of the last post but I guess you didn't notice.
Link: http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...ing?page=0%2C0

Oh yer so you did, my error, cheers mate

[Squat-Man]

IMO if we are aiming for optimal hypertrophy we must use both fast and moderate rep speeds. Incorporating both moderate and fast rep speeds rather than using only fast or moderate rep speeds in the workouts will allow us to gain more hypertrophy . I don't want to be misunderstood when talking about moderate rep speeds. Whether using fast or moderate rep tempos concantric phase of the movement must be done as fast as possible .The main difference in moderate rep speeds are keeping eccentic phase longer. By holding the concantric phase of the movement fast more force will be produced ; this will allow more recruitment of the fast twitch fibers , greater activation of the nervous system , using more loads and getting more sarcomeric hypertrophy when compared to slow concantrics. For hypertrophy eccentric phase of the movement is important. In eccentric phase less force is produced than concantric phase but in this phase less fibers(mostly fast twitch fibers) are recruited in lowering the weight , this causes greater damage in these fibers and if you arranged your workouts,nutrition, rest well this will cause you to gain more hypertrophy. That's why moderate rep speeds are great for hypertrophy. As moderate rep speeds I choose rep tempos like 4-0-X , 3-1-X or 3-1-X-1 .
Using fast rep tempos and using decent rep numbers , we allow more activation of fast twitch motor units and can gain hypertrophy rather in fast twitch fibers . As I said above I believe we must use both fast and moderate rep speeds for optimal results. These are completing each other. Assume that we are using only moderate reps and gained X pounds of muscle after a year. If we would incorparate both fast and moderate speeds in our workouts we could gain more than X pounds of muscle after a year of training along gaining more strength.

[fbcoach]

In conclusion, many bodybuilders and fitness oriented athletes alike would likely benefit from adding a few explosive type exercises to their training regimen such as plyometrics. In competitive athletics, when all other factors are equal, power is the deciding factor between winning and losing. The ability to generate concentric and eccentric force over a range of contraction velocities is often critical determinant of athletic success. For years, weight training was considered to slow an athlete down and make an athlete inflexible. Fifteen years ago, the University of Nebraska started training their football team using only the explosive Olympic lifts and the squat. Performing explosive lifts such as power cleans, jump squats, and depth jumps recruit entirely the fast twitch motor units. The training effect produced a stronger, faster, and more mobile athlete?and a winning record. Now, virtually all football teams incorporate Olympic lifts for explosive strength and power. Most bodybuilders never train with explosive eccentric contractions. The maximum force that a muscle can develop is attained during a rapid eccentric contraction. Incorporating these movements into your training routine will increase size and strength beyond traditional weight training.
References

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8. Hakkinen K, Pakarinen A, Kraemer WJ, Hakkinen A, Valkeinen H, Alen M. Selective muscle hypertrophy, changes in EMG and force, and serum hormones during strength training in older women. J Appl Physiol. 2001 Aug;91(2):569-80.

9. Hakkinen K, Kraemer WJ, Newton RU, Alen M. Changes in electromyographic activity, muscle fibre and force production characteristics during heavy resistance/power strength training in middle-aged and older men and women. Acta Physiol Scand. 2001 Jan;171(1):51-62.

10. LaStayo PC, Woolf JM, Lewek MD, Snyder-Mackler L, Reich T, Lindstedt SL. Eccentric muscle contractions: their contribution to injury, prevention, rehabilitation, and sport. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2003 Oct;33(10):557-71.

11. Lindstedt SL, Reich TE, Keim P, LaStayo PC. Do muscles function as adaptable locomotor springs?J Exp Biol. 2002 Aug;205(Pt 15):2211-6.

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15. Wong, T.S., and Booth, F.W. Protein metabolism in rat tibialis anterior muscle after chronic eccentric exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 69:1718-1724, 1990b.

16. Wong, T.S., and Booth, F.W. Protein metabolism in rat gastrocnemius muscle after stimulated chronic concentric exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 69:1709-1717, 1990a.

17. Hather, B.M., Tesch, P.A., Buchanan, P., and Dudley, G.A. Influence of eccentric actions on skeletal muscle adaptations to resistance training. Acta. Physiol. Scand. 143(2):177-85, 1991.

18. Frenette, J., and Cote, C.H. Modulation of Structural Protein Content of the Myotendinous junction Following Eccentric Contractions. Int. J. Sports Med. 21: 313-320, 2000.

19. Cote, C., Simoneau, J.A., Lagasse, P., Boulay, M., Thibault, M.C., Marcotte, M., and Bouchard, B. Isokinetic strength training protocols: do they produce skeletal muscle hypertrophy? Arch. Phys. Med. Rehabil. 69:282-285, 1988.

20. Hortobagyi, T., Dempsey, L., Fraser, D., Zheng, D., Hamilton, G., Lambert, J., and Dohm, L. Changes in muscle strength, muscle fibre size and myofibrillar gene expression after immobilization and retraining in humans. The Journal of Physiology. 524.1, pp. 293-304, 2000.

21. Higbie, E, J., Cureton, K.J., Warren, G.L., and Prior, B.M. Effects of concentric and eccentric training on muscle strength, cross-sectional area, and neural activation. J. Appl. Physiol. 81(5): 2173-2181, 1996.

22. Potteiger, J.A., Lockwood, R.H., Haub,M.D., Dolezal, B.A., Almuzaini,K.S., Schroeder,J.M., Zebas,C.J. Muscle Power and Fiber Characteristics Following 8 Weeks of Plyometric Training The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. Volume 13, Number 3, 275-279, 1999.

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Link: http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...ing?page=0%2C0

Informative posts and link Squat Man. Thanks

[Kelei]

Squat-Man, you are right about faster movements recruiting more motor units, but........just because you are recruiting these motor units does not mean you are creating an optimal stimulas for growth, explosive movements without any weight at all recruit high threshold motor units but there simply isn't enough tension, I'll try and give an example,

A pitcher is throwing a baseball, although he may actually recruit his higher threshold motor units, he isn't placing much tension upon the actual fibers themselves.

Just for examples sake, don't take the numbers too literally,

- Lifting 300 pounds in 0.5 seconds may generate 100 units of force and 50 units of tenson upon recruited fibers, although you actually recruit more fibers you are not increasing tension per fiber by recruiting additional motor units, because there are more motor units involved there is less tension placed upon each motor unit.

- Lifting 300 pounds in 2 seconds may generate 25 units of force and 100 units of tension upon recruited fibers, because there are less motor units recruited there is more tension placed upon those that are recruited.

A real world consideration, you could lift 300 pounds as fast as possible and recruit 90 out of 100 motor units, but with lower tension per motor unit, or instead you could use 400 pounds lifted slowly and still recruit the same amount of motor units but the tension placed upon each motor units is much greater. If you were to only lift 300 pounds slowly then you would perhaps recruit only 60 motor units but the tension placed upon each of these fibers is far greater than when 300 pounds is lifted explosively, simply because when you lift the 300 pounds explosively you are using an additional 30 motor units to assist (generate more force) so the load is dispersed over a greater number of motor units which obviously lowers load (tension) per motor unit.

In regards to strength training, the CNS adapts to high levels of attempted force, so obviously you would most definately want to attempt to generate maximal force via explosive lifting when training for strength and/or strength qualities, but tension induced hypertrophy is greater when slower rep speeds are used.

Guys please note that I am not advocating fast or slow reps or whatever, I am simply stating information, you have to decide what is best according to your training goals and needs.

As I said before, the reason why eccentrics create more tension is because the load is actually moving backwards so there is far less force being genereted which allows for greater tension, yes it's also true that fast eccentrics generate more tension (damage) than slow eccentrics, this is because the weight is moving backwards even faster so it lowers force even more thus allowing more tension. A 3 second eccentric may require 80 units of force to lower the weight at that speed, but a 0.5 second eccentric may only require 35 units of force to lower the weight, obviously more tension will be generated.

I'll rate various lifting methods on a scale, numbers are examples, 1 = low, 10 = high,

- Explosive Concentric = 10 force, 1 tension
- Moderate Concentric = 8 force, 3 tension
- Slow Concentric = 6 force, 5 tension
- Slow Eccentric = 4 force, 7 tension
- Moderate Eccentric = 2 force, 9 tension
- Fast Eccentric = 1 force, 12 tension

In reality the best rep cadence for pure hypertrophy would be a slow concentric with a fast but controlled eccentric, usually the opposite of what most people preach. For strength training you would definately need to attempt to lift loads as fast as possible because force generation is the key driver for CNS adaptions.

[Kelei]

Kelei I understand you when saying for more hypertrophy we must give muscles more tension but to increase tension keeping concantric phase of the reps longer is not a must. I prefer eccentic phase of the reps longer and keep momentum out in the exercises to increase tension. Keeping concantric phase of the reps fast also will allow you to use heavier loads and this will help you to give muscles more tension.

Lemme try and explain with an example,

- Lifting 300 pounds with a 1 second concentric speed may recruit 70 motor units with 50 units of tension placed upon each motor units.

- Lifting 300 pounds with a 3 second concentric speed may recruit 45 motor units, but these 45 motor units will have 90 units of tension placed upon them.

- Lifting 400 pounds with a 3 second concentric speed may recruit 70 motor units (same as example 1) but there would be far more tension placed upon each motor unit, even though the total amount of recruited motor units is the same.

It's better to lift 400 pounds slowly than 300 pounds quickly, given equal motor unit recruitment. Lifting 300 pounds quickly probably recruits the same amount of motor units as lifting 400 pounds slowly.

To generate maximal force and recruit the most motor units possible you would need to lift as fast as possible, to generate maximal tension you would need to lift as slow as possible on the concentric phase and as fast as possible on the eccentric phase.

Go and read my previous post one more time and think carefully, you will see it all clearly.

[Kelei]

Kelei I believe for hypertrophy most important phase of the rep is eccentric phase not concentric phase and we must focuse on eccentrics more. Briefly keeping concentric phase longer allows us to use lighter weights compared to fast concentrics and this inhibits our eccentric performance. The main point we don't agree is this I guess.

Regardless of everything else I can tell you this,

1. Slow concentrics generate more tension than fast concentrics.
2. Fast eccentrics generate more tension than slow eccentrics.

-During a slow concentric there is less force being generated than during a fast concentric, this allows greater tension.
-During a fast eccentric there is less force being generated than during a slow eccentric, this allows greater tension.

Of course the eccentric is most important, because the weight is actually moving backwards so there obviously is less force being generated than when the weight is moving forwards (concentric), this allows greater tension, as force increases tension decreases, as force decreases tension increases.

[Kelei]

Kelei for more hypertrophy and giving muscle enough tension I prefer using heavier weights and keeping eccentrics longer . In eccentric phase of the reps fewer muscles are recruited compared to the concentric phase and this makes recruited muscles keeping under enough tension. You are right about more force less tension and less force more tension . I want to say keeping concentic phase longer and eccentric phase less can give great tension but not optimal for hypertrophy.

Well considering that sarcomere hypertrophy is directly related to tension your post makes no real sense, the reason why fewer muscles are recruited during the eccentric is because there is less required force, the CNS recruits motor units based on required force.

If you need to lift 500 pounds in 1 second then obviously you are going to require more force than lifting 500 pounds in 3 seconds, so the CNS will recruit more motor units.

[all pro]

Kelei nice try. Now let me give it a shot...........YOU NEED BOTH!!!
If you're working in the 1-6 rep range, LIFT IT LIKE YOU HATE IT and lower it quickly but under control. If you're working in the 8+ rep range then slow it down to NORMAL.

Simple enough?

[N@tural1]

Kelei nice try. Now let me give it a shot...........YOU NEED BOTH!!!
If you're working in the 1-6 rep range, LIFT IT LIKE YOU HATE IT and lower it quickly but under control. If you're working in the 8+ rep range then slow it down to NORMAL.

Simple enough?

Where is kelei's info wrong specificaly all pro? Made solid sense to me.

[all pro]

Where is kelei's info wrong specificaly all pro? Made solid sense to me.

I'm not saying he's wrong just simplifying his answer and making sure it includes mixed qualities so that it doesn't look like another written in stone, either or type answer.
size and strength. You can do both at the same time.

[anab0lic_]

Intresting, I have used 5-8 reps with a slow ecentrics (about 3-4seconds) explosive positive for a long time and have made amazing gains from it both in terms of strength and size. Alot of popular programs advocate to lift that way, I don't have any scinetific mumbo jumbo to support it, but its what I've found best through trial and error of various rep ranges and speeds... for me anyway.