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  1. #211
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    Started IFF bout month ago and will never look back now that ive done this. Training fasted believe or not gives much more focus, ive hit PR's everyweek, for me its the best way to train. Sounds silly but everything that i thought i learned was just all bro science and ****. IFF and training fastes is the real deal. Lean muscle gains with out much fat gains. i back this up 100%
    I have waited my whole life to say this....THE SAINTS ARE SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!!!

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  2. #212
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    Originally Posted by JOSEF RAKICH View Post
    175g protein = 700 calories, i dont see why it would take almost a whole day to digest and process because if on is on a calorie deflect at 2800 cals (for example) and losing weight, 700 calories is only 1/4th of that total, therefor it should logically take 1/4th of the day or less..

    My theory on excess calories becoming excess calories are if too much calories are consumed over a short period of time, for example a very large meal, the excess calories that the body dose not need at that time will be stored as bodyfat for later use, (i just dont understand why its over a "day" period) so even protein and carbs being stored as fat, therefor if protein and carbs get stored as fat they will never again go back to protein and carbs again which makes it completly different and that actually eating smaller but less frequent meals will result in less fat storage plus a better outcome which will be more benificial as the body can use all of the 350g of protein over the day where as if its consumed in larger amounts some of that protein will be stored as fat creating a total less protein intake over the day because soem of it woul be stored as fat, even though over a 24 hour period calorie intake is identical. And yes i know fat loss/fat storing is happening continuously but if protein gets stored as fat thats less protein for the body over that day. However if it was smaller frequent portions of protein the body would not need to store it espically in a cal deflect. So when exctally do EXCESS calories become an EXCESS!?.........................
    Meal frequency doesn't result in any changes in body comp as long as total Calories are the same.

    Meal frequency and energy balance
    France Bellislea1, Regina McDevitta2 and Andrew M. Prenticea2


    Abstract
    Several epidemiological studies have observed an inverse relationship between people's habitual frequency of eating and body weight, leading to the suggestion that a ‘nibbling’ meal pattern may help in the avoidance of obesity. A review of all pertinent studies shows that, although many fail to find any significant relationship, the relationship is consistently inverse in those that do observe a relationship. However, this finding is highly vulnerable to the probable confounding effects of post hoc changes in dietary patterns as a consequence of weight gain and to dietary under-reporting which undoubtedly invalidates some of the studies. We conclude that the epidemiological evidence is at best very weak, and almost certainly represents an artefact. A detailed review of the possible mechanistic explanations for a metabolic advantage of nibbling meal patterns failed to reveal significant benefits in respect of energy expenditure. Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral. More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are likely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation.
    http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ine&aid=879792
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  3. #213
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    Originally Posted by Joseph1990 View Post
    brb posting my irrelevant opinion all over the nutrition section as arrogantly as I can while not positively contributing whatsoever.



    Nothing wrong with the way you train, no one said you HAVE to train fasted. You are the one passing judgment on the way we train deeming it is "idiotic and wrong" because it dosen't work for you even though you have yet to try it.
    Your reading comprehension is extremely poor.
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  4. #214
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    Originally Posted by Cumulonimbus View Post


    Lets do it in retard terms. Dat dere cals in vs cals out. If your daily expenditure is more than your daily intake, you loose, vice verse. As mentioned, you are constantly storing and losing bodyfat. Net balance is what matters. It is like worrying how much muscle you gain from a 5 x 20 bicep curl brosession.

    Also, you don't need carbs around every meal/training session. People rely on exogenous glucose too much, especially panzy bodybuilders.
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  5. #215
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    Oh, Alan, since you appeared - is post-workout meal (protein +carbs) important for those who want to gain muscle? Thanks.
    I read the sticky that total macros are more important.
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  6. #216
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    Originally Posted by juliacheh View Post
    Oh, Alan, since you appeared - is post-workout meal (protein +carbs) important for those who want to gain muscle? Thanks.
    Yes, no, & it depends. If you nail your macros for the day, then it likely doesn't matter exactly how your protein & carb intake is distributed within the day -- as long as the way you time things doesn't interfere with your training performance, and this varies individually. There's a pretty low ceiling of protein dosing beyond which additional carbs won't further increase net protein balance (at least acutely).
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  7. #217
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    Originally Posted by juliacheh View Post
    Oh, Alan, since you appeared - is post-workout meal (protein +carbs) important for those who want to gain muscle? Thanks.
    I read the sticky that total macros are more important.
    PS - I see what you're doing here, Julia
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  8. #218
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    Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    PS - I see what you're doing here, Julia
    What do you mean?
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  9. #219
    Registered User DedicatedDad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    Yes, no, & it depends. If you nail your macros for the day, then it likely doesn't matter exactly how your protein & carb intake is distributed within the day -- as long as the way you time things doesn't interfere with your training performance, and this varies individually. There's a pretty low ceiling of protein dosing beyond which additional carbs won't further increase net protein balance (at least acutely).
    Alan-I'm sure all of this is 'assuming' that your macros are in line, and you know what you are doing as far as calculating them.

    What are your thoughts on fats post/wo? I know macros are king, but do you have any thoughts on that?

    Finally, do you have a 'standard' you guy by as far as macro percentages? 40-40-20 for example?
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  10. #220
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    Originally Posted by DedicatedDad View Post
    Alan-I'm sure all of this is 'assuming' that your macros are in line, and you know what you are doing as far as calculating them.

    What are your thoughts on fats post/wo? I know macros are king, but do you have any thoughts on that?

    Finally, do you have a 'standard' you guy by as far as macro percentages? 40-40-20 for example?
    Postworkout fats: doesn't matter a damn, unless you're forced to resynthesize depleted glycogen stores within just a few hours due to back-to-back exhaustive endurance competition where your postworkout jar of peanut butter would end up being your pre-workout gut bomb for the upcoming leg of the race. Pretty far-fetched scenario.

    Macro precentage standards: None. Percentages are a default result of figuring individual macro needs; the percentages are merely an afterthought with limited significance.
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  11. #221
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    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    Wait so there are people that actually think that not having a pre-WO meal won't make a damn bit of difference in one's training? Wow...
    It may very well make a difference, or it may not. The difference may be positive or it may be negative. It varies individually.

    Even if it always made a positive difference (hypothetically), the nutrition is not affecting body composition, it is affecting energy levels. What you make of them them is your own doing, not the food's.

    You can just as easily eat and not train...does the meal timing have an effect now? Nope. If you can't apply this "theory" universally, then it doesn't hold up. Hence, timing is based on individual preference and response, to be optimized for one's own energy levels.
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  12. #222
    Keto shill Joseph1990's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alan aragon View Post
    Yes, no, & it depends. If you nail your macros for the day, then it likely doesn't matter exactly how your protein & carb intake is distributed within the day -- as long as the way you time things doesn't interfere with your training performance, and this varies individually. There's a pretty low ceiling of protein dosing beyond which additional carbs won't further increase net protein balance (at least acutely).
    Hey Julia does this mean I win :P

    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    Your reading comprehension is extremely poor.
    ^Good effort on the indirect insult and attempt to save face as always, but this dosen't even get a golf clap.
    Last edited by Joseph1990; 02-17-2011 at 09:52 PM.
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  13. #223
    PhD in Broscience xprm311x's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by Joseph1990 View Post
    ^Good effort on the indirect insult and attempt to save face as always, but this dosen't even get a golf clap.
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  14. #224
    JosefRakichFitness.com JOSEF RAKICH's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MikeK46 View Post
    The fact that you're expending a certain number of calories over the course of the day has nothing to do with how quickly the macronutrients in a large meal are broken down in your digestive system and digested. Eating 300g of protein in one sitting will take so long to digest it would be the same as eating several meals of smaller protein amounts spaced out several hours apart.

    You're completely ignoring everything everyone is telling you. That's why there's so many pages already. You've ignored everything I told you. There is no such thing as at that time. Net gains in fat are due to overabundance of nutrients over an extended period time. It's not 12 hours, it's not 24 hours...there is no exact timeframe, how long it takes for you gain fat is dependant on many factors. If you overeat breakfast by 3500 calories you will NOT gain a pound of fat by the end of the day. Don't ask for advice if you're not going to believe it. Don't respond to my posts with "are you sure?" and "or will you?!?!!". I'm done with you. I can't spell it out any clearer. You'd probably just suck it up and believe it if I had some credentials after my name...after all, you'd believe it if Alan told you. I'm done.
    Nah im not ignoring i understand what you are saying and i can see what you mean.

    Thanks for your posts.

    Originally Posted by ppd001 View Post
    op offer a "personalised" meal plan in his personal website for $50..
    Originally Posted by Joseph1990 View Post
    Yeah wtf....


    I'm all for you making a profit from your physique because it takes alot of hard work to get to where you are and just as much hard work to maintain. Only thing is your knowledge regarding nutrition is lacking to say the least to be offering advice on it for cash.


    "www.JosefRakichFitness.com for customized workout programmes and meal plans. "
    Lol i still know how to write meal plans to gain muscle and/or lose bodyfat, i give correct calorie intake for ones goals with correct macros for there goals i also use my bro-science and give proper nutrient timing (which aparently isnt necessary, but IMO its benificial). Anyway It works and people get results i work as a personal trainer and i also write meal plans for people in my gym weather they are a client of mine or not. On BB.com i get like 4-6 PM's everyday asking me for my meal plan or my workout programme so i decided i may as well start up and online site and charge them like i do in my gym and make some money from this.

    However i still make most of my money from stripping

    Originally Posted by tenacious707 View Post
    I just want to read Alan's response. Everyone going back and forth is pointless. Different strokes for different folks.. Its your life, do what works for you and keep it moving.. People worry about **** they cant control.
    I was just interested that all, even though it may be necessary to follow correct nutrient timing i am still going to follow proper nutrient timing as it has worked for me so far anyway.

    Originally Posted by SumDumGoi View Post
    Meal frequency doesn't result in any changes in body comp as long as total Calories are the same.
    Calories are the same over what period of time? depending on the time the meal frequency would have an effect somewhat.
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  15. #225
    Not actually named untz. mynameisuntz's Avatar
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    Threads like these make me over-think what I'm doing. And I can't stand that.

    :[
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    Originally Posted by Cumulonimbus View Post
    I visit the nutritional section before a ME squat set on my iPhone to get me more pissed off.
    ah christ! people seem to have glanced over this little gem....shame cuz this is possibly more clever/hysterical than your inspirational graph. btw the integral of that function surely gives you net LBM gained...correct?
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  17. #227
    Keto shill Joseph1990's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JOSEF RAKICH View Post
    Lol i still know how to write meal plans to gain muscle and/or lose bodyfat, i give correct calorie intake for ones goals with correct macros for there goals i also use my bro-science and give proper nutrient timing (which aparently isnt necessary, but IMO its benificial). Anyway It works and people get results i work as a personal trainer and i also write meal plans for people in my gym weather they are a client of mine or not. On BB.com i get like 4-6 PM's everyday asking me for my meal plan or my workout programme so i decided i may as well start up and online site and charge them like i do in my gym and make some money from this.
    Don't take it the wrong way. Your meal plans and training advice is most likely better then most personal trainers I have run into. I did not word that correctly forgive me. I would assume that my knowledge is as good as yours or better and I would not charge for my advice because IMO I don't know enough.

    Originally Posted by JOSEF RAKICH View Post
    However i still make most of my money from stripping
    I'm sure you could if you wanted to LOL.

    Originally Posted by JOSEF RAKICH View Post
    Nah im not ignoring i understand what you are saying and i can see what you mean.

    Thanks for your posts.
    Your probably over thinking it. It shouldn't be hard to understand, Mike is good at making things easy to understand for us mere mortals.
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  18. #228
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    Originally Posted by Joseph1990 View Post
    I'm sure you could if you wanted to LOL.
    What do you mean i could if i wanted to??

    Originally Posted by Joseph1990 View Post
    Your probably over thinking it. It shouldn't be hard to understand, Mike is good at making things easy to understand for us mere mortals.
    Yeah.

    I just been in the contest prep section and it was in a thread about fasted carido, Layne Norton was talking about how it should not be performed in a fasted state, i know he is a beliver in nutrition timing is very important, i asked him a question about it i will wait for his response.
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  19. #229
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    Originally Posted by JOSEF RAKICH View Post
    What do you mean i could if i wanted to??
    GTFO, your a stripper? lol play on playa!


    Originally Posted by JOSEF RAKICH View Post
    I just been in the contest prep section and it was in a thread about fasted carido, Layne Norton was talking about how it should not be performed in a fasted state, i know he is a beliver in nutrition timing is very important, i asked him a question about it i will wait for his response.
    I think the only important timing of nutrition is carbs the day prior to training. I don't know if this is documented anywhere I have not looked.

    I went on a binge of drinking every weekend for few weeks. Each time I would get drunk I would go on a massive carb binge 400-700 carbs on top of my daily intake. The next day in the gym I would lift like a complete monster and never run out of gas. 2.5 hour long workouts with high intensity and super heavy weight. Quads, Hams, and Chest. Was insane. This happened the day after I got drunk out of my mind every time.

    Today I had carbs a few hours pre-workout and I was weak and tired in the gym. The previous day I only had 125 carbs. I think the lack of strength and energy is because of the lack of carbs the previous day.

    Is this already known or something new? Sounds crazy? Would love to hear AA's thoughts.
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    Originally Posted by Joseph1990 View Post
    I think the only important timing of nutrition is carbs the day prior to training. I don't know if this is documented anywhere I have not looked.

    I went on a binge of drinking every weekend for few weeks. Each time I would get drunk I would go on a massive carb binge 400-700 carbs on top of my daily intake. The next day in the gym I would lift like a complete monster and never run out of gas. 2.5 hour long workouts with high intensity and super heavy weight. Quads, Hams, and Chest. Was insane. This happened the day after I got drunk out of my mind every time.

    Today I had carbs a few hours pre-workout and I was weak and tired in the gym. The previous day I only had 125 carbs. I think the lack of strength and energy is because of the lack of carbs the previous day.

    Is this already known or something new? Sounds crazy? Would love to hear AA's thoughts.
    This is what I've come to see for myself as well. Pre-workout nutrition as far as energy goes applies mostly to endurance athletes taking on hours of events vs the 1-2 hours most trainees here do at their gym with resistance training and/or cardio. Tomorrow's energy will depend on today's intake IMO.

    For example...I had my refeed today of 800g carbs. Tomorrow is power day as I like to call it .
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    Originally Posted by Trillios View Post
    This is what I've come to see for myself as well. Pre-workout nutrition as far as energy goes applies mostly to endurance athletes taking on hours of events vs the 1-2 hours most trainees here do at their gym with resistance training and/or cardio. Tomorrow's energy will depend on today's intake IMO.

    For example...I had my refeed today of 800g carbs. Tomorrow is power day as I like to call it .
    Couldn't agree more
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    Is this stuff about carbs a day before for optimal strength either confirmed or denied by research?

    I am not trying to doubt it. I'm just really curious about it (I even made a thread recently in an attempt to know if power lifting nutrition is any different than bodybuilding nutrition).

    If there is no research, I would appreciate other personal experiences. From the comments above, this seems to work.


    Also, assuming that more carbs a day before gives more energy, wouldn't the optimal diet be a diet that targets your proteins and fat, and then every other cal should be carbs? A lot of people say to eat whatever you want past your macros, but if extra carbs can provide more energy, maybe it would be optimal to concentrate on them for the remaining cals. Any thoughts on this?
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    Originally Posted by Joseph1990 View Post
    Hey Julia does this mean I win :P

    Yeah yeah. I said I wasn't sure.
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    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    Wait so there are people that actually think that not having a pre-WO meal won't make a damn bit of difference in one's training? Wow...

    I understand that one's body could adapt over time to training in a fasted or semi-fasted state but to take somebody that is used to training with food in their system and then tell them to train fasted is idiocy IMO
    Everyone in North America, to some extension, is used to training with food in their system since fasting's popularity is quite small in the general public. So, by your logic, anyone who has switched to fasted training is idiotic.

    Also, there's nothing wrong with anyone's reading comprehension. Rather, it's the way you structure your sentences and how you imply information. Of course, how can you be to blame for anything? You're infallible.

    Anyway:

    Eight young men were tested for strength, anaerobic capacity and aerobic endurance in a post absorptive state and after a 3.5 day fast. Strength was tested both isokinetically (elbow flexors, 0.52 rad x s-1 and 3.14 rad x s-1) and isometrically. Anaerobic capacity was evaluated by having subjects perform 50 rapidly repeated isokinetic contractions of the elbow flexors at 3.14 rad x s-1. Aerobic endurance was measured as time to volitional fatigue during a cycle ergometer exercise at 45% VO2max. Measures of VO2, VE, heart rate, and ratings of perceived exertion were obtained prior to and during the cycle exercise. The 3.5 day fast did not influence isometric strength, anaerobic capacity or aerobic endurance. Isokinetic strength was significantly reduced (approximately 10%) at both velocities. VO2, VE and perceived exertion were not affected by fasting. Fasting significantly increased heart rate during exercise but not at rest. It was concluded that there are minimal impairments in physical performance parameters measured here as a result of a 3.5 day fast.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3622486
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    Originally Posted by Joseph1990 View Post
    Hey Julia does this mean I win :P



    ^Good effort on the indirect insult and attempt to save face as always, but this dosen't even get a golf clap.
    It wasn't intended as an insult.

    You seemed to miss the obvious; taking someone that is used to exercising with exogenous glucose as a primary substrate is going to have difficulty training at peak performance when in a fasted state.
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    Originally Posted by JohnBrowne View Post
    You seemed to miss the obvious; taking someone that is used to exercising with exogenous glucose as a primary substrate is going to have difficulty training at peak performance when in a fasted state.
    It makes sense that they would, though I've come across many who have "adapted" and never looked back. Though I imagine their lifting sessions are short and focus on heavy weight & lower volume, as opposed to lighter weight & higher volume.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=5724
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    Originally Posted by Tbone4217 View Post
    Ah, the Socratic Method...........gotta love it because it makes you think
    isnt the socratic method getting nekkid with young boys and then downing a bunch of hemlock?


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    Originally Posted by Joseph1990 View Post
    I think the only important timing of nutrition is carbs the day prior to training. I don't know if this is documented anywhere I have not looked.

    I went on a binge of drinking every weekend for few weeks. Each time I would get drunk I would go on a massive carb binge 400-700 carbs on top of my daily intake. The next day in the gym I would lift like a complete monster and never run out of gas. 2.5 hour long workouts with high intensity and super heavy weight. Quads, Hams, and Chest. Was insane. This happened the day after I got drunk out of my mind every time.

    Today I had carbs a few hours pre-workout and I was weak and tired in the gym. The previous day I only had 125 carbs. I think the lack of strength and energy is because of the lack of carbs the previous day.

    Is this already known or something new? Sounds crazy? Would love to hear AA's thoughts.
    Originally Posted by Trillios View Post
    This is what I've come to see for myself as well. Pre-workout nutrition as far as energy goes applies mostly to endurance athletes taking on hours of events vs the 1-2 hours most trainees here do at their gym with resistance training and/or cardio. Tomorrow's energy will depend on today's intake IMO.

    For example...I had my refeed today of 800g carbs. Tomorrow is power day as I like to call it .
    Ahh yes true i see what you mean, i do somewhat agree with this i always find after my refeed day if i am training thats when i have my most energy and best workouts, i also know that Arnold use to carb load before bed if he was trainnig the next day or something like that.
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    thread should be stickied
    I have waited my whole life to say this....THE SAINTS ARE SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!!!!

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    There was thread in the contest pep section about fasted cardio, Layne Norton said not to do cardio in a fasted state, i then askd him about the importance of nutrition timing as i remember he is a firm beliver, here what he had to say:

    Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    my articles also explain why i utilize nutrient timing. Mostly due to trying to maximize enhanced insulin sensitivity. Now this may only make a 2-3% difference, which isn't noticible to the average person, but 2-3% difference for someone trying to win a show, is a pretty big deal
    This is where it comes down to necessary VS benificial again, IMO if you want to achive the very best you can possible achive then you should reap all the benifits because no matter what they all do add up, thats why i still belive nutrition timing is still very important.
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