Clearly not a single F**K was given that day (get off the stage)

[jeromethechicken]

Regarding Philip, when was the last time he competed in the WNBF? I can't find any record of it (http://www.musclememory.com/show.php...rdo,+Philip+Jr). According to their policy, the WNBF doesn't allow professionals to compete elsewhere. In the last 6 years, Philip has competed at, and placed very well in the NPC, Musclemania, NGA, INBA/PNBA, and OCB/IFPA. He's taken top honors in each of these federations, including Musclemania, which you described as a "drug infested joke of an organization". In 2004, he won the Natural Olympia, but later got disqualified for failing a drug test. From what I understand, the banned substance was ephedra. So, while it wasn't a hormone, it was still an unfair advantage based on the contest rules.

Like you said, natural "depends on your definition", and I think it only encompasses the use of over the counter nutritional supplements. The kind of products that you can get virtually anywhere, from CVS to Walmart. Most of the high priced labels at GNC are bogus to begin with, so they shouldn't even be mentioned. Since my outlook doesn't apply to everyone, should I be discouraged? After all these years, have I been fighting a losing battle? These are rhetorical questions, but I think you get the point.



And, just for the record, I don't think I could beat anyone In the IFPA, as you suggested. Pictures are irrelevant, and these guys are seasoned professionals. I believe that the best man wins on the day of the contest. The truth is, I'd just be happy to place in the top 5! Philip Ricardo has accomplished more than I ever have in bodybuilding (and other areas of life). There's other people I admire, but I don't want to bring them into this.

Obviously, the drug testing, anywhere, isn't completely full proof. But, that doesn't allow you to whimsically discern a person's status without a failed drug test. If opinion matters more than actual testing, then none of us holds any credibility because somewhere, someone will always be skeptical.



I completely agree with this statement, but is there a realistic solution? When you have endurance athletes, who look nothing like bodybuilders, beating the test, that makes it very hard to believe anyone. These days, a person's physique and lifestyle, has become completely irrelevant because cheaters come in all shapes and sizes. For what it's worth, I believe you're natural, but I could be wrong.



Now you're spreading fallacies. I never said I won't compete in the IFPA. If you've actually read my journal, or checked my post history, I state exactly why I think it's a bad idea to jump from one organization from another. I'm not going to post the links here because I don't want to bore you, or anyone else, but I can PM them to you if requested.

I know a lot of very good natural Musclemania athletes, so your words are huge insult to them. Part of the reason why their athletes never compete anywhere else is because they're strictly prohibited from doing so. Much like the WNBF, they'll actually loose their pro status if that becomes an issue. A lot of people get their start there, and since they're treated well, there's never any reason to leave.

Titles like the World and the Universe, are present in just about every organization. It's hard to determine which one is "better" because they all have something unique to offer. Some people like the exposure, for different reasons, and they use it as a stepping stone. Generally, people have different goals, preferences, and even the format of the actual contests is different.

As for the last sentence, I detected a hint of sarcasm, but it definitely made me laugh. If that's how you really feel, then maybe you need to take a closer look at natural bodybuilding. I won't name any names, to avoid further controversy, but there's quite a few people who could put me to shame. That doesn't bother me though, because self improvement is the highest reward. Hopefully, we can both agree on that, if nothing else.

^^ This guy is fuking troll proof.

[GetMassive99]

This^^

I doubt anyone here would believe this guy is natural BUT he is. Here is a pic from when he was 15 or 16 in grade 9

Attachment 5312613

here he is about at about 23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUh23ZyEP6k

All I am trying to say is, you folks need to be a little open minded. Not everyone wants to go into drugs and steroids.

Whats your point?
I have no problem believing that guy is natural. He's just finished gym and has a good pump still.
Its usually the size of traps and delts that are the biggest give-aways IMO

[FAN0FdaSport]

no comment on any natty statuses and i think pat has a great physique, but whenever someone makes accusations on the guy, he handles it like a fuking boss lol

look how mad some people are getting lol, if only there was a meme to express anger and frustration on the internet

[nightsoiler]

I thought this thread was about whacked out people competing, NOT some natty/juicer debate thing?

[MrDeafMuscle]

This thread.......read first 2 pages and had LOLs...........then...




Come on guys.....who cares who is natural and who is not.....plus if everyone just decided to admit one day that they were on any kind of usage, the fitness industry would become practically non-existent overnight. Can you image how much fuking money that is............even you guys that bish and moan will feel the impact. There is a reason...................its pretty pathetic if you guys like and constantly pick on every single person that looks better than you.

[Alex54321]

Thanks! I've been told the hands clasped most muscular is one of my better poses. I took 4th place in the light heavyweight class. Vaughan Ettienne won my class and the overall without too much trouble. According to Dave Palumbo, he was the obvious winner.

Forget about all this natural or not crapp,That blond in the back is so cheeking you out!

[purdey]

This^^

I doubt anyone here would believe this guy is natural BUT he is. Here is a pic from when he was 15 or 16 in grade 9

Attachment 5312613

here he is about at about 23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUh23ZyEP6k

All I am trying to say is, you folks need to be a little open minded. Not everyone wants to go into drugs and steroids.

Genetics can vary to crazy degrees. I met a guy who looked this this ^ but a bit taller (6 foot maybe), he was 19 and from Papua Nugini where it is apparently super hard to get protein powder and other supplements and he built his physique with lots of peanut butter and rice. It happens.

I don't see why it is so hard to comprehend the varying range of genetics, I mean look at pro basketball players compared to the pro jockeys

[Meshuggah]

You're so full of s hit it's painful. You and I both know you could compete on that stage. Your method of "humble dodging" is nauseating.

Exactly. Honestly the only way I can truly believe Pat is by him competing in a legit natural organization. Yes I insulted Musclemania athletes. No I don't care. Yes Musclemania is considered a drug infested joke by other natty organizations. You can't be oblivious to how musclemania is regarded. Secondly, to act overly humble and say you'd be happy to place top 5 at the Yorton is a joke. You could EASILY win that show yearly if you wanted to (if you could actually pass their testing).

[Zachary533]

no comment on any natty statuses and i think pat has a great physique, but whenever someone makes accusations on the guy, he handles it like a fuking boss lol

look how mad some people are getting lol, if only there was a meme to express anger and frustration on the internet

Pat knows how to handle trolls time and time again lol, he's the man-

Quality poster/person- regardless of status.

[CytoRoc]

stuff isn't even funny.

i mean..yes it is..but like..

[Lvisaa2]

[RoroCwalker]

^
Guest posing? He doesn't even look oiled up.

[Lvisaa2]

^
Guest posing? He doesn't even look oiled up.

/shrug. Just my attempt to actually get the thread back on topic

[MrDeafMuscle]

/shrug. Just my attempt to actually get the thread back on topic

On topic

[nightsoiler]

One of these is not like the others...

[lancs_hotpot]

On the 'you cant look like Zane without taking stuff' point, i think a natural Dorian and Ronnie could be as big if not bigger with condition.

[DomzyCuttin]

Bottom line is a 270 lb shredded elite bodybuilder could be 215 naturally. If you dont think so then you are probably using and not getting anywhere. If I cant do it with drugs, no one on the ****ing earth out of 7 billion people can do it without.

Im not saying Pat is natural or not, im saying his size and condition is attainable. He has really good genetics and obviously works hard. Who knows, if he is natural, and went on for a few years, maybe he could be top ifbb? Who the hell are you guys to say its NOT possible. You can say something is improbable in your opinion, but saying it is impossible just makes you look like a jealous idiot.

[XClassic10]

Bottom line is a 270 lb shredded elite bodybuilder could be 215 naturally. If you dont think so then you are probably using and not getting anywhere. If I cant do it with drugs, no one on the ****ing earth out of 7 billion people can do it without.

Im not saying Pat is natural or not, im saying his size and condition is attainable. He has really good genetics and obviously works hard. Who knows, if he is natural, and went on for a few years, maybe he could be top ifbb? Who the hell are you guys to say its NOT possible. You can say something is improbable in your opinion, but saying it is impossible just makes you look like a jealous idiot.

just curious what makes you say that? any basis or proof for that? I don't know if you were talking about contest condition or anything, but there's no way a natural is getting contest peeled at 215 at anything below 6'0". sure they can get up to 215 and probably be reasonably lean with abs, but they're definitely not stepping on stage at that weight.

btw I'm not one of those doubting haters on naturals either, I'm a natural bodybuilder myself and get accused of taking fairly often IRL and on the forums lol so I know what's its like to have people not believe you. 215 is just pushing it though

[Bondons]

I myself always wondered why self proclaimed nattys don't compete in the legit natural organizations. doesn't make sense to me. naturalgraham said because they are smaller competitors and he wants to have better competition (or something along those lines). so your gonna intentionally compete against people who have a HUGE advantage over you(drugs)? uwotm8?

natty bodybuilder checking in. also get called out for using even though my competition weight was 160 at 5'11. doesn't matter how big or small you are people are always gonna call you a liar because there is no such thing as a natural bodybuilder apparently.
i see why though, its amazing how many young guys i talk to who barely just started lifting weights are already on the sauce. so of course if there is anyone who looks better they must be using too. just the weak mindset that has flooded peoples brains. especially over on the misc. it will never end.

in for more pics of fail competitors.

[Brofessional]

just curious what makes you say that? any basis or proof for that? I don't know if you were talking about contest condition or anything, but there's no way a natural is getting contest peeled at 215 at anything below 6'0". sure they can get up to 215 and probably be reasonably lean with abs, but they're definitely not stepping on stage at that weight.

this. lol @ 215 in contest shape naturally. What in the absolute phuck?

[HeadlessChicken]

[mbamboocha112]

=)))))))))))))))))))))))..that is PRICELESS

[Pinkton]

Bottom line is a 270 lb shredded elite bodybuilder could be 215 naturally. If you dont think so then you are probably using and not getting anywhere. If I cant do it with drugs, no one on the ****ing earth out of 7 billion people can do it without.

Im not saying Pat is natural or not, im saying his size and condition is attainable. He has really good genetics and obviously works hard. Who knows, if he is natural, and went on for a few years, maybe he could be top ifbb? Who the hell are you guys to say its NOT possible. You can say something is improbable in your opinion, but saying it is impossible just makes you look like a jealous idiot.

This is just dumb. 215lbs contest at 5'10 naturally? Do you have any idea how huge that is?

Don't try and downplay the effects of gear, there's a reason there is a massive amount of abuse in the pros. Nobody can get there without it, I don't give a **** how good your genetics are. My comment has nothing to do with pat just with your theory

[antmun]

You're so full of s hit it's painful. You and I both know you could compete on that stage. Your method of "humble dodging" is nauseating.

Why are you so butt hurt about what pat banya does? Stop bitching on the internet, like a little girl, and get in the gym and lift some iron. The levels of jealousy in your posts is alarming.

[Groggery]

=)))))))))))))))))))))))..that is PRICELESS

In Workaholics he's basically Genova on TV in some ways.

[RoroCwalker]

[Brofessional]

Why are you so butt hurt about what pat banya does? Stop bitching on the internet, like a little girl, and get in the gym and lift some iron. The levels of jealousy in your posts is alarming.

Calling out someone for being a fraud/liar = jealousy? Oh okay. Let me go hit da ironz insted bro.

[SammyJr]

Bottom line is a 270 lb shredded elite bodybuilder could be 215 naturally. If you dont think so then you are probably using and not getting anywhere. If I cant do it with drugs, no one on the ****ing earth out of 7 billion people can do it without..

225 contest shape 5'10.5

]






damn only 10 lbs due to drugs. crazy. the other 215 is natural, hard work right?

[purdey]

Calling out someone for being a fraud/liar = jealousy? Oh okay. Let me go hit da ironz insted bro.

I wouldn't waste your time bro If there's one thing i know about cell tech, it's that its users (most of them) will lie until they are blue in the face if there is ANYTHING that it could compromised. The broader the audience to the lies is, the less likey blah blah blah

[GetMassive99]

taking old version of Jack3d makes you not natty