I know what all 3 programs are. I just can't figure out what to do. What do you guys recommend? if you've tried more than one, which worked the best?
by Madcow 5x5, it may also be called Bill Starr 5x5. Either way, it's this one: http://stronglifts.com/madcow/5x5_Pr...Linear_5x5.htm
I am leaning towards 5/3/1, only because of the added variety (squat press pull... rinse and repeat. getting a bit boring), and because I have the time available to go 4x a week.
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11-27-2011, 01:24 AM #1
Texas Method vs. 5/3/1 vs. Madcow 5x5 for intermediates
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11-27-2011, 03:43 AM #2
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11-27-2011, 07:16 AM #3
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11-27-2011, 07:48 AM #4
- Join Date: Oct 2009
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I've only done Texas Method (still on it) so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
5/3/1- seems better for advanced/end of intermediate lifters (weight progresses only monthly, even though rep PRs weekly)
Madcow/Starr- Hit a new 3 rep PR at end of week, then do it for 5 reps the next week? How long can that be maintained?
Texas Method- PRs at the end of every week, awesomeness. But volume day makes you feel like dying during and for half the week afterwards, and its tough to fine tune the program when you stall. Plus I also live in Texas.
Really only you can know which one fits you best."I'm just a lat guy, you know? I've got these amazing lats, and I'm just living in an ab guy's world." -Workaholics
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11-27-2011, 07:53 AM #5
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11-27-2011, 07:55 AM #6
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11-27-2011, 08:04 AM #7
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11-27-2011, 09:11 AM #8
- Join Date: Dec 2009
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I've done both the Texas Method and Madcow's 5x5. Both are quite similar. The key difference was that with the Texas Method there is one absolute bitch of a workout (volume day), with recovery day being fairly easy and intensity day being the best day of the week as you hit new PRs. With Madcow's there were no easy days, but there were not excruciatingly difficult days either. The Texas Method allowed more variety and customisation which is handy for many. But there was also a greater chance you'd miss a lift as you'd be working closer to your actual %RMs for more of the time than with Madcow's. But Madcow's was more sure and steady; you could rely on it to make you X% stronger in Y months.
I wouldn't recommend 5/3/1 for people that can still make weekly progress.My log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120990011
There are 10 types of people: those that understand binary, and those that do not.
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11-27-2011, 12:19 PM #9
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11-27-2011, 12:51 PM #10
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11-27-2011, 01:59 PM #11
- Join Date: Mar 2009
- Location: De Witt, Iowa, United States
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This is exactly what I am doing and have seen good progress. I would recommend a 5X5 until you cant progress every week, then 5/3/1 and progress monthly. I consider 5/3/1 as more of an advanced intermediate programs. Milk linear progression for everything that its worth.
★cVc★
My Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=174578931
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11-27-2011, 02:11 PM #12
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11-27-2011, 02:40 PM #13
- Join Date: May 2008
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thats looking at my statement backwards.
i'm talking more like.... Why should someone have to do SS or madcows before 5/3/1? when they could just do 5/3/1 theoretically forever from the beginning while making nice slow gains allllll the time..
Like me for example, at my strength numbers/experience level everyone on this forum would tell me to do madcows or SS when I started.. However i've been on the conjugate system(i did spend a few months reading and asking questions before doing the conjugate system though) for awhile making great gains and I plan on using it for years if I can.Recovering fatass
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11-27-2011, 03:11 PM #14
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Read Ripps book pratical programming. The reason you progress as fast as possible in the beginning of strength training is to take advantage of an untrained CNS that recovers quickly. As weight increases, frequency must decrease to maintain recovery. Its explained much better in the book, than in what I just typed.
★cVc★
My Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=174578931
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11-27-2011, 04:15 PM #15
Agreed. With that in mind I would say go 5x5, then when you stall (meaning no progress in several weeks) then make the jump to 5/3/1. What is nice with 5x5 is frequency which helps develop your form as well. I ran 5x5 for 2 years. Progress stalled and I couldn't maintain the frequency due to aching joints. Granted I am running smolov jr for bench at the moment.
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11-27-2011, 08:08 PM #16
I'm currently doing 5x5. Basically, 5x5 spreads the volume out over the week, vs TM has you do one big "go **** yourself" workout once a week. I like the mental focus of 5x5 so far. Friday comes "ok only 5# more and only for 3 reps instead of 5? no problem". Two days off, then Monday "I've had a nice long rest and I only have to add 2 reps to Friday's workout? easy peasy". That's how it feels for me at least.
Time is also a factor. I average 1:20 to get all my lifts in, including supplementary work each day. Vs, 2+ hours for volume day on TM. Don't have that kind of time. Obviously Friday's workout makes up for it when you set a new PR and go home.
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11-27-2011, 08:58 PM #17
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11-28-2011, 10:26 AM #18
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11-28-2011, 11:18 AM #19
- Join Date: Feb 2008
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i would consider the advanced levels in this website advanced.
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLi...hStandards.htm
Thats not to say 5/3/1 wont work for a beginner, but a beginner can make faster progress on something more aggressive and linear like Madcows 5x5.Powerlifter at PTC Performance Training Centre
661 squat, 385 bench, 705 deadlift, 1752lb total.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVx1ANJc7lc
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11-28-2011, 11:18 AM #20
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I understand what you are saying, but in 5/3/1 you up your training max 5-10 lbs per month. Your performance on the weight derived as a percentage of that training max during your AMRAP sets could equate to a much larger increase in performance (than just the 5-10 lbs per month) if you compare them using Wendler's provided formula for comparing weight-reps from wave to wave. 5/3/1 is based on a training max not your actual max. Your actual max could be increasing at a much higher rate than your training max, which was shown by a couple of testimonials in the 5/3/1 book where the lifters had a 550 training max in the deadlift and pulled 600 in competition.
I am not saying 5/3/1 is great for beginners, but it is not the worst thing. The greater training frequency supplied by TM/Madcows is what will benefit beginning to intermediate trainers with a fresh CNS (as austin mentioned) more than the weight progression. Once you cannot handle the frequency, a switch to 5/3/1 or similar split type programming would be beneficial.Strongman Training Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=138026593
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11-28-2011, 11:21 AM #21
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yer, i understand.
you can do 135x5 one cycle and then 140x8 the next.
and i agree, its not bad for a beginner. But something more aggressive and linear is more suitable.Powerlifter at PTC Performance Training Centre
661 squat, 385 bench, 705 deadlift, 1752lb total.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVx1ANJc7lc
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11-28-2011, 11:29 AM #22
- Join Date: Mar 2009
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- Rep Power: 34254
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