I will never understand why Americans are so against health care reform.

[Jimthegiant]

Yeah... Ignore the facts...

You're oversimplifying this. I'm not pretending to have all the answers myself, but if it was as simple as you're making out EVERY country would have the same solution.

Notice how UK is 1st for care but next to the bottom in healthy lives? That's the most extreme but there seems to be zero correlation between public health and how socialist the healthcare system is.

Overall the NHS works well but it certainly has it's drawbacks. Long ass waiting times, less intensive for people to look after themselves (as evidenced above), health concious people subsidising lazy ****s, lower wages for doctors and nurses etc.

Last time I went to A&E (accident and emergency) I'd have rather paid to be seen and I was poor as **** at the time. I waited 5 hours to be seen, they should have given me stitches but instead applied some steri-strips and a bandage and sent me out. They told me to come back to get the dressing changed but I did all that myself because I didn't want to wait hours to get seen every time. Had a private company given such pissening treatment they would have just lost a customer.

I've got a permanently ****ed finger now so I don't have the grip strength to deadlift heavy.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...6459131&page=1

[scheal]

because this is America not some socialist state.

you cannot change America into a socialist state it's literally impossible, it'd no longer be America. you would have to change the country's very name.

America =/= socialist state

topic = over

do you understand OP?



no you're not, in all the other replies you're making snide and retarded comments about Republicans.

then in this one you're saying "all i'm saying is we need reform!" like some back peddler who's up against a wall.

honestly throughout the whole topic you look totally stupid. you have not made one concise point and the obvious fact that socialized health insurance is unAmerican still stands like a giant elephant in your very ignorant little room.

Probably never replied to this due to the fact it comes from a caveman.

Grunt grunt 'murica murica'

It's hard to take someone serious when their holding their tiny penor in their avi

dude, shut the phuck up.

it is NOT an embarrassment to us. some foreigner does not decide what embarrasses America. we are proud of things like Gun Rights and moral values, we do not believe in socialized insurance. and that's not an embarrassment to us.

stop trying to make us feel bad for nothing. you really are coming off like a HUGE pussy who needs to just get a life and shut the phuck up.

It's people like you that embarrass America. While the rest of the world advances and makes progress, we in America are plagued by Neanderthals like you and sawwoobywooby who thinks women should still be in the kitchen while he serves fries at McDonalds.

We are a backward nation, we think it's OK for insurance CEO's to pay themselves 10's of millions each year while turning down people for healthcare and where pharma companies rake in billions but cannot provide affordable drugs to the masses. Until we cull people like you at birth or properly re-educate you we will always be plagued by caveman type thinking. It really is embarrassing to think people all over the world can read your comments and laugh at us

[darknessmanX]

It's people like you that embarrass America. While the rest of the world advances and makes progress, we in America are plagued by Neanderthals like you and sawwoobywooby who thinks women should still be in the kitchen while he serves fries at McDonalds.

We are a backward nation, we think it's OK for insurance CEO's to pay themselves 10's of millions each year while turning down people for healthcare and where pharma companies rake in billions but cannot provide affordable drugs to the masses. Until we cull people like you at birth or properly re-educate you we will always be plagued by caveman type thinking. It really is embarrassing to think people all over the world can read your comments and laugh at us

and the bleeding heart Liberalism continues.

we do not have to take care of everyone. we are not some Super Nation that takes care of the feeble and sick. this is America, it's not friendly and it's not easy; get used to it or get out.

if that offends you? Good.

[mydawgs]

Well I definitely don't consider a healthcare system where tens of thousands each year are left to die with countless more left with crippling bills, just for essential medical care, and general health outcomes are pretty terrible, as a good one, especially when the country concerned is the richest on the planet. People who know a lot more about this stuff than me or you seem to agree with that general idea too (crazy!)

Yet many more do well, and we have the BEST to treat the worst ailments.....vice your overwhelmingly mediocre, latent care that many in this country would say is appallingly lacking. It is all in how you look at it....I suppose


Just BTW I really have little tolerance for the CEO comments to the other poster...take nothing build it into a thriving industrial power house and do as you please, you earned it....otherwise please refrain from coveting another's success...he owes you NOTHING

[scheal]

Grunt grunt grunt

All while holding your tiny penor.

Look how easy you have it, living with your parents while they pay for your healthcare. Wait till you get your first minimum wage job and then find out how you wish you had universal healthcare

and the bleeding heart Liberalism continues.

we do not have to take care of everyone. we are not some Super Nation that takes care of the feeble and sick. this is America, it's not friendly and it's not easy; get used to it or get out.

if that offends you? Good.

[Canadian2point0]

Scheal....lol, who's alt account is this?....yours darknessmanx?

[mydawgs]

Grunt grunt grunt

All while holding your tiny penor.

Look how easy you have it, living with your parents while they pay for your healthcare. Wait till you get your first minimum wage job and then find out how you wish you had universal healthcare

But we here is America have Obamacare....and most min wage workers are opting to pay the tax vice get raped by the healthcare premiums.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm

[darknessmanX]

Scheal....lol, who's alt account is this?....yours darknessmanx?

please LoL.

Look how easy you have it, living with your parents while they pay for your healthcare.

i lease my own shelter and have no roommates.

are we done yet?

[BrocepCurls]

Yet many more do well, and we have the BEST to treat the worst ailments.....vice your overwhelmingly mediocre, latent care that many in this country would say is appallingly lacking. It is all in how you look at it....I suppose

this is a really ****ty argument, we have some of the world's best doctors and medical technology in places like Harley St London where if you are rich enough you can get the most effective treatment known... having advanced treatments for the top 1% however does not come remotely close to making a good healthcare system. That is done by our NHS, which despite its flaws and room for improvement, is one of the best things about this country

[zakatak333]

So long as the funding is attached to the patient, and a patient can choose where he wants to get treatment, universal healthcare is a good thing.

[scheal]

But we here is America have Obamacare....and most min wage workers are opting to pay the tax vice get raped by the healthcare premiums.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm

Obamacare is a disaster. The insurance companies are still around and filling their pockets. Get rid of them and start again

[kusok]

So long as the funding is attached to the patient, and a patient can choose where he wants to get treatment, universal healthcare is a good thing.

Theft is a good thing?

[kusok]

Obamacare is a disaster. The insurance companies are still around and filling their pockets. Get rid of them and start again

Hold on. If I want to pay someone some amount of money every year and sign an agreement with them that they will pay for my health treatment in case I get hurt, you think government should ban that and throw us both in prison?


Communists never fail to deliver the LOLz

[BrocepCurls]

Theft is a good thing?

oh shut up you loser lol. if you really and truly thought the government was stealing from you, you'd be going after them to get your tax money back just like you would if a little girl stole your wallet. but of course you dont actually think that and are just another lame neckbeard e-anarchist who hasn't left his moms basement yet and thinks his edgy views make him sound cool

fukking yawn

[mydawgs]

this is a really ****ty argument, we have some of the world's best doctors and medical technology in places like Harley St London where if you are rich enough you can get the most effective treatment known... having advanced treatments for the top 1% however does not come remotely close to making a good healthcare system. That is done by our NHS, which despite its flaws and room for improvement, is one of the best things about this country

You say "sh*tty" - I say not....see this is where the thinking diverges. I find your program, exponentially lower in quality than Obamacare....not up to the task. But JMO. And Obamacare is setting the bar LOW...my point.

[zakatak333]

Theft is a good thing?

governments and taxation are a necessary part of maintaining civilization, especially considering the present day population size

[Stizzel]

oh shut up you loser lol. if you really and truly thought the government was stealing from you, you'd be going after them to get your tax money back just like you would if a little girl stole your wallet. but of course you dont actually think that and are just another lame neckbeard e-anarchist who hasn't left his moms basement yet and thinks his edgy views make him sound cool

fukking yawn

A swat team is a lot different from a little girl. And at least the hypothetical little girl has the balls to do it herself. You hide behind big burly men with GED educations and semi automatic rifles to let them do it for you.

[Boxman]

What most Americans fail to realize is that universal health care would relieve US companies of a huge burden and make them more competitive, thus leading to more hiring and more jobs. It's really a minor miracle how well many US corporations have performed and even managed to compete with foreign companies that don't have to pay health insurance (because their govt's take on that burden). Imagine how well US companies would do if the playing field were level.

This tradition of having companies provide health insurance was a stupid practice that never should have gotten started in the first place. Other countries don't put this burden on their businesses; instead the costs for healthcare are spread across the entire population by way of taxes. This doesn't neccesarily mean the govt is running the hospitals themselves; often it's just the govt providing a universal insurance plan that everyone uses, with the hospitals still privately run (for example Canada, Australia). Either way it gives foreign companies a huge advantage over their US counterparts.

The lack of universal health care has been dragging down our economic performance and contributing to the decline of middle class living standards for decades.

[nutsy54]

What most Americans fail to realize is that universal health care would relieve US companies of a huge burden and make them more competitive, thus leading to more hiring and more jobs.

And where do you think the massive amount of money comes from to fund this "universal" health care?

How is anyone relieved of a huge burden, when that huge burden still needs to be funded and paid?

[moksha16]

People do prefer to pay off the thugs or go to prison rather than be killed. But Eric Garner was killed for tax evasion recently. Cigarette tax in his case. Many people get arrested for tax evasion. You know very well that if they resist and absolutely refuse to comply they will be killed. You know this. Stop playing dumb please.

If people absolutely resist for traffic tickets they might also get killed you potato. They are being killed because, and i quote you "they absolutely refuse to comply"

Therefore your idiotic rant applies equally to jaywalking and any other thing that might require you to comply or be arrested...Therefore all laws are enforced by "government thugs that will kill you" jesus some of you people are fuking stupid

You and Darkman should seriously consider just pulling the trigger one night while you are fellating the guns you love so much.. the country would instantly be a better more sane place

[moksha16]

And where do you think the massive amount of money comes from to fund this "universal" health care?

How is anyone relieved of a huge burden, when that huge burden still needs to be funded and paid?

Doesn't the american government already pay more per person for healthcare than most countries with UHC? Yet still has chit coverage and masses of citizens going bankrupt over medical bills.

Maybe some of the money that goes into a military bigger than the next 10 (who are all mostly close allies anyways) could be diverted to the health and welfare of the citizens that provide that money.. just an idea.

[Jexex]

I don't get it. Universal healthcare would (literally) benefit everybody. It's a shame the American health care system is so broken.

Why should I pay for someone else's health care?

[kusok]

governments and taxation are a necessary part of maintaining civilization, especially considering the present day population size

Your opinion. You're welcome to pay IRS and Obama. Just leave those who disagree out of your idiocy. Basically don't steal. That's all.

If people absolutely resist for traffic tickets they might also get killed you potato. They are being killed because, and i quote you "they absolutely refuse to comply"

Therefore your idiotic rant applies equally to jaywalking and any other thing that might require you to comply or be arrested...Therefore all laws are enforced by "government thugs that will kill you" jesus some of you people are fuking stupid

You and Darkman should seriously consider just pulling the trigger one night while you are fellating the guns you love so much.. the country would instantly be a better more sane place

If you drove in a way that hurt someone, you should be sued. If a road and property owner that you drove on has a contract with you regarding certain rules and tickets for violation, it's perfectly fine to enforce those voluntarily agreed to rules. I did not agree to the rules government edicts have dictated to me currently.


Wishing death upon people that didn't hurt you is a very common statist illness, your true colors always come out nicely.

[nutsy54]

Doesn't the american government already pay more per person for healthcare than most countries with UHC? Yet still has chit coverage and masses of citizens going bankrupt over medical bills.

Maybe some of the money that goes into a military bigger than the next 10 (who are all mostly close allies anyways) could be diverted to the health and welfare of the citizens that provide that money.. just an idea.

So... When your claims fall apart, you just make up some lies, then change to an unrelated topic...

Derp.

[fitnessislife]

Probably never replied to this due to the fact it comes from a caveman.

Grunt grunt 'murica murica'

It's hard to take someone serious when their holding their tiny penor in their avi



It's people like you that embarrass America. While the rest of the world advances and makes progress, we in America are plagued by Neanderthals like you and sawwoobywooby who thinks women should still be in the kitchen while he serves fries at McDonalds.

We are a backward nation, we think it's OK for insurance CEO's to pay themselves 10's of millions each year while turning down people for healthcare and where pharma companies rake in billions but cannot provide affordable drugs to the masses. Until we cull people like you at birth or properly re-educate you we will always be plagued by caveman type thinking. It really is embarrassing to think people all over the world can read your comments and laugh at us

Does it bother you to know that nobody here cares what a whiny beta like you thinks?

[kusok]

oh shut up you loser lol. if you really and truly thought the government was stealing from you, you'd be going after them to get your tax money back just like you would if a little girl stole your wallet. but of course you dont actually think that and are just another lame neckbeard e-anarchist who hasn't left his moms basement yet and thinks his edgy views make him sound cool

fukking yawn

Swat team =/= little girl.


I live in my own house, and am self employed.

[Boxman]

And where do you think the massive amount of money comes from to fund this "universal" health care?

How is anyone relieved of a huge burden, when that huge burden still needs to be funded and paid?

Because a single-payer system would dramatically lower healthcare costs per capita. You know, like every other f*cking country in the civilized world.

Don't play dumb.

[kusok]

Because a single-payer system would dramatically lower healthcare costs per capita. You know, like every other f*cking country in the civilized world.

Don't play dumb.

What if a person wishes to take care of their own healthcare, and not be stolen from and not be provided any government care or any of that? Just a personal responsibility thing?

[nutsy54]

Because a single-payer system would dramatically lower healthcare costs per capita. You know, like every other f*cking country in the civilized world.

Don't play dumb.

Really? A massive federal government bureaucracy will lead to lower costs?

Please list all the times that U.S. Federal Government involvement has led to reduced costs, increased efficiency, and results delivered on time while at/under budget....

[Boxman]

What if a person wishes to take care of their own healthcare, and not be stolen from and not be provided any government care or any of that? Just a personal responsibility thing?

You know it doesn't work that way; ER's can't turn patients away and in the end we all pay for medical bankruptcies and for people forced onto Medicaid and other taxpayer funded programs. And you also know that having a hodge-podge of private and public insurance providers makes for a messy and extremely expensive system, which means that those who wish to "take care of their own healthcare" still get punished with higher premiums along with everyone else.

Health care is a funny business. There's only two ways to keep costs down: 1) NO insurance for ANYONE (everybody pays out of pocket), or 2) Universal insurance for EVERYONE.

Option 1 can work, in the sense that healthcare would be cheaper if NOBODY had insurance thus forcing hospitals to be more competitive with pricing, but that would mean millions die every year for lack of funds. But if you're ok with that, yes this model can keep costs down. There's a reason plastic surgeries are so much cheaper than other types of surgical procedures of equal complexity; it's because plastic surgeries are almost never covered by insurance.

Option 2 works better because a single-payer insurance model allows the govt to dictate or at least negotiate pricing with hospitals and big pharma. When you have one entity providing all the insurance, it gives them tremendous bargaining power and is the reason equivalent healthcare cost 3x less per capita in France and other countries that use this model.