End of Starting Strength

[Ivan088816]

I have been following the starting strength routine and am starting to stall on my lifts. I plan to reset my squat and bench soon but am curious what weight you got up to on your lifts before switching over to a different program.

Thanks

[Schism45]

I'm at 335x5/200x5/395x5 and still going strong. I feel like I still have a few more months on it left.

Resets are a beautiful thing.

[Ivan088816]

I'm at 335x5/200x5/395x5 and still going strong. I feel like I still have a few more months on it left.

Resets are a beautiful thing.

Thanks. Typically, how many lbs do you reset for your lifts and do you just continue to add on five lbs from that point each day?

[DanielBeauchamp]

I had to reset my Bench and Deadlift once each; my Squats have always been going up.

So far I've been able to break through my stall on the Bench, and I'm still seeing good gains. I'd say to keep at it until it stops working; if it still works for you, why stop?

[Torrtrefireto]

I'm at 335x5/200x5/395x5 and still going strong. I feel like I still have a few more months on it left.

Resets are a beautiful thing.

Thats a pretty nice ratio for S/B/D dude. Very jealous.

OP I think that you can go a few more months on SS, if you are just stalling for the first time now. But do you have any ideas on where you go from there?

[Schism45]

Thanks. Typically, how many lbs do you reset for your lifts and do you just continue to add on five lbs from that point each day?

It depends on the lift and how I feel about it. For instance, I recently reset the military press by 20 pounds, and then added ten to it each day, so the reset really only delayed me a few days, but this was a lift I felt really good about as I was working back up. I also had only barely missed getting the 3x5 I wanted on it.

I recently reset bench as well, and I think I dropped 20 pounds off it as well, but worked back up 5 pounds each day because it didn't feel as strong (I didn't feel like I could sustain 10 pounds per day), and I wasn't even close to hitting the 3x5 I wanted on it.

For squats I reset about 30 pounds, and then work up 10 pounds each day.

Honestly though, how much you reset and how much you add each day depends partly on feel. The goal is sustainability, so essentially the question is at what pace can you continue adding weight every workout? For me, right now, that's 10 pounds per day on squats and deadlifts, and 5 pounds per day on the presses. As Torrtrefireto said, if you're only just resetting for the first time now, you have plenty of time left on the program. Which is a good thing - any powerlifter would stay on this program their entire life if it actually would continue working for them the whole time like it works for us now. No other programming gives as quick gains as linear progression.

Thats a pretty nice ratio for S/B/D dude. Very jealous.

Thanks.

[Torrtrefireto]

any powerlifter would stay on this program their entire life if it actually would continue working for them the whole time like it works for us now. No other programming gives as quick gains as linear progression.


Thanks.

Like I've said thats not true, exponential progression bra

Week 1 day 1 Bench 10 3x5
Week 2 day 1 Bench 100 3x5
Week 3 day 1 Bench 1000 3x5
Week 4 day 1 Bench 10,000 3x5

Just kidding, though I think for very short periods of time progression can be faster than what SS allows for if all other conditions are right

[Ivan088816]

Thats a pretty nice ratio for S/B/D dude. Very jealous.

OP I think that you can go a few more months on SS, if you are just stalling for the first time now. But do you have any ideas on where you go from there?

I think madcow after this. But I'm looking for some concrete numbers though. What were your lifts when you switched rather than time period.

[Schism45]

I think madcow after this. But I'm looking for some concrete numbers though. Why were your lifts when you switched rather than time period.

Why do you want concrete numbers? Everyone is going to be different. Why wouldn't you want to milk out the program for all its worth? Why are you eager to become an intermediate lifter, where gains are slower and more difficult?

[Ivan088816]

Why do you want concrete numbers? Everyone is going to be different. Why wouldn't you want to milk out the program for all its worth? Why are you eager to become an intermediate lifter, where gains are slower and more difficult?

I totally agree and I plan to keep it up for as long as possible. I'm just looking for an idea of other peoples' experience. At one point, inevitaby, gains on an "intermediate" program would be better than on starting strength. I'm not implying that I'm close to that point, and hope I'm not by any means.

Hopefully Ill milk starting strength until I hit a 3000 total. Joking

[Ivan088816]

For squats I reset about 30 pounds, and then work up 10 pounds each day.

Are you saying that you maintain an increase of ten pounds to your squat every other day after you make up for the weight that you reset, or just while you regain the weight you reset and then continue with a more modest increase once you break through the weight you stalled at.

[Torrtrefireto]

I think madcow after this. But I'm looking for some concrete numbers though. Why were your lifts when you switched rather than time period.

If you are asking me specifically, I have never ran Starting Strength or any other program. Been making my own since day 1

[Ivan088816]

If you are asking me specifically, I have never ran Starting Strength or any other program. Been making my own since day 1

thanks I'll check out your log.

[Torrtrefireto]

thanks I'll check out your log.

You may if you want, I wouldn't suggest what I do for you.

I have had a severely diminished ability to recover for the past few years, so I try to get by doing as little work as possible. You can definitely work harder than what I do in my log.
A typical day for me would be
5 sets of 3 reps squat with 85% of my 1 rep max
3 sets of 10 stiff leg deadlifts
1-2 set of extentions and/or curls with very light weight

Thats it, now you don't have to go through 10 pages of me whining

[Ivan088816]

You may if you want, I wouldn't suggest what I do for you.

I have had a severely diminished ability to recover for the past few years, so I try to get by doing as little work as possible. You can definitely work harder than what I do in my log.
A typical day for me would be
5 sets of 3 reps squat with 85% of my 1 rep max
3 sets of 10 stiff leg deadlifts
1-2 set of extentions and/or curls with very light weight

Thats it, now you don't have to go through 10 pages of me whining

Haha, thanks. Thats not too bad I don't think, but after I do finally near the end of starting strength for me, I think mad cow would be good. My buddy is on that now and has been adding ten pounds a week to his squat.

[Torrtrefireto]

Haha, thanks. Thats not too bad I don't think, but after I do finally near the end of starting strength for me, I think mad cow would be good. My buddy is on that now and has been adding ten pounds a week to his squat.

10 pounds a week, oh how I wish that was me.

Have you been liking the frequency of each lift? If so, you could start looking into Sheiko or other Russian style routines and just read about that while you do the end of SS and madcow.

It seems like a logical progression to me

[mjw8204]

The Texas Method is a common and Rip-recommended strategy after Starting Strength.

[Ivan088816]

The Texas Method is a common and Rip-recommended strategy after Starting Strength.

Thanks, I'll take a look into it

[Ivan088816]

10 pounds a week, oh how I wish that was me.

Have you been liking the frequency of each lift? If so, you could start looking into Sheiko or other Russian style routines and just read about that while you do the end of SS and madcow.

It seems like a logical progression to me

Yea I like squatting everytime, But it's difficult to maintain the intensity for all three sets of five. Yesterday I got 325 for five and it felt really good, but when I went back for my second set and unracked the bar, I was like fawwwk, it just felt heavy and I could only squeeze two reps out before failing on my third. So I'm planning to reset the squat.

The frequency of lifts is pretty high but I'm not doing any accessory work so I'm recovering pretty well. Although I could always use more sleep.

[guest89]

Been a long time since I've read the book but I think you are supposed to stick to something like this:

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Dead 3x5
When you are starting to stall on lifts add in dips.

Squat 3x5
Military press 3x5
Clean 5x3
When starting to stall on lifts add chinups.


If you stall, reset by 20lbs. If stall again, reset by 20lbs. This is stalling on squats/deads h/e, you can reselt the presses multiple times. The third time you stall on squats/deads, go to the more advanced program. (The Texas Method for example)


BTW the most common reason why people stall on the presses is because they aren't microloading. By microloading I mean doing 2.5lb increases not 5lb increases. To do this you're gonna need to manufacture your own weights.

Refer to this thread on stalling
http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=14592

And this one on how to manufacture your own weights for microloading (very cheap/easy btw)
http://stronglifts.com/madcow/Topics/Microloading.htm



As for how strong someone can get on the "basic" version of starting strength, well I read not long ago about a guy who's deadlift was 600lbs and he is still doing the same basic program. I guess its all dependent on the individual.

Yea I like squatting everytime, But it's difficult to maintain the intensity for all three sets of five. Yesterday I got 325 for five and it felt really good, but when I went back for my second set and unracked the bar, I was like fawwwk, it just felt heavy and I could only squeeze two reps out before failing on my third. So I'm planning to reset the squat.

The frequency of lifts is pretty high but I'm not doing any accessory work so I'm recovering pretty well. Although I could always use more sleep.

Can you go 10lbs a week ATG though? I can go up 10lbs a week but its not ATG with clean form... I'd say stick to 5lbs a week and keep squatting deep with clean form rather then just trying to get a heavy but crappy squat. By squatting deep I mean if naked the penis would hit the floor haha.

[Hatmanii]

Been a long time since I've read the book but I think you are supposed to stick to something like this:

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Dead 3x5
When you are starting to stall on lifts add in dips.

Squat 3x5
Military press 3x5
Clean 5x3
When starting to stall on lifts add chinups.


If you stall, reset by 20lbs. If stall again, reset by 20lbs. This is stalling on squats/deads h/e, you can reselt the presses multiple times. The third time you stall on squats/deads, go to the more advanced program. (The Texas Method for example)

This is all incorrect. If you own the book (Starting Strength) you would know this.

For basics:
You start off deadlifting every session until you can no longer recover from the frequency. Then you alternate powercleaning with deadlifting every workout (Typical A/B split). Then when deadlifting every other session becomes too taxing you move to the Onus Wunsler which adds in chins and back extensions on day *A* and alternates deads/PCs on day*B*.

If you are pressing every workout and stalling, how would adding more volume to an already taxed upper body spurn progress? It wouldn't, and it doesn't and is why Rippetoe doesn't advocate it.

If you only miss one or two reps in a workout, repeat the same weights the next time around and continue on if you are able to get them. If you truly stall, meaning you are unable to get them the next workout or you miss more than 5-6 reps, deload by 10% and continue adding 5 lbs from that point with the intention of passing your previous stall point by working back up.

Good luck man!

PS -
When I ran SS I was able to work up to...
Squat - 350 3x5
Bench - 275 3x5
Press - 185 3x5
Deadlift - 395 3x5
PClean - 185 3x5

I increased deadlifts by 10lbs and all others by 5lbs following the workout progression I described above. I'm currently doing the Texas Method. Good Luck!

[Ivan088816]

Been a long time since I've read the book but I think you are supposed to stick to something like this:

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Dead 3x5
When you are starting to stall on lifts add in dips.

Squat 3x5
Military press 3x5
Clean 5x3
When starting to stall on lifts add chinups.


If you stall, reset by 20lbs. If stall again, reset by 20lbs. This is stalling on squats/deads h/e, you can reselt the presses multiple times. The third time you stall on squats/deads, go to the more advanced program. (The Texas Method for example)


BTW the most common reason why people stall on the presses is because they aren't microloading. By microloading I mean doing 2.5lb increases not 5lb increases. To do this you're gonna need to manufacture your own weights.

Refer to this thread on stalling
http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=14592

And this one on how to manufacture your own weights for microloading (very cheap/easy btw)
http://stronglifts.com/madcow/Topics/Microloading.htm



As for how strong someone can get on the "basic" version of starting strength, well I read not long ago about a guy who's deadlift was 600lbs and he is still doing the same basic program. I guess its all dependent on the individual.





Can you go 10lbs a week ATG though? I can go up 10lbs a week but its not ATG with clean form... I'd say stick to 5lbs a week and keep squatting deep with clean form rather then just trying to get a heavy but crappy squat. By squatting deep I mean if naked the penis would hit the floor haha.

When you say five pounds a week, do you mean five pounds each time you squat? Or are you assuming that you would not get all fifteen reps the first time you move up to a bigger weight.

[Ivan088816]

Does any one else find it hard to keep up the intensity across all three sets. Like I said, even if my first set goes great sometimes i just feel exhausted on my third or even second, and feel overwhelmed by the weight, whereas on the first set it doesn't feel too too heavy.

[Schism45]

This is all incorrect. If you own the book (Starting Strength) you would know this.

What? No, he was right. I have the book and what he said was exactly correct. He posted the classic Rippetoe routine - what you posted is a much later variation of it. Both work fine.

[Hatmanii]

What? No, he was right. I have the book and what he said was exactly correct. He posted the classic Rippetoe routine - what you posted is a much later variation of it. Both work fine.

The classic A/B routine he posted was fine, which I even reiterated. However, adding in dips and chins where he said to was not. Also, a 10% deload is recommended, not just 20lbs. His comments on microloading were spot on, however, so Kudos there.

If you read SS and Practical Programming, the progression I described is what Rippetoe himself recommends for novices. There are even later stages such as Advanced Novice progression, etc...

I quoted a large block of text, keying in on specific pieces of it, so apologies for not being clear.

[guest89]

When you say five pounds a week, do you mean five pounds each time you squat? Or are you assuming that you would not get all fifteen reps the first time you move up to a bigger weight.

I mean every time you squat, which is the correct way I believe. If I remember correctly if you squat the same numbers every workout for a weak you are actually considered to be getting "weaker". However when I first started I did 5lbs a week because I had only read the first part of the book and didn't know about that, anyways I still progressed fine at 5lbs a week on the squat, deadlift, bench, mil press, and clean. Eventually I had to go 5lbs every two weeks on the bench and mil press. At that point I finished reading the book and found out about microloading the presses at 2.5lbs and building my own microload weights.

If I remember the book correctly, after a few weeks the progression balances out to

2.5lb increase per workout on both presses.
5lb increase per workout on the squat and clean
10lb per workout on the deadlift. (now decreased to 5lb per workout because I have trouble gripping the bar on 10lb increases)

(Note its been awhile since I read the book but these were my progression rates that I was able to do according to my individual lifting ability. bigger/smaller guys may be different)

The classic A/B routine he posted was fine, which I even reiterated. However, adding in dips and chins where he said to was not. Also, a 10% deload is recommended, not just 20lbs. His comments on microloading were spot on, however, so Kudos there.

Ehh, some of my info is straight from the mouth of Rippetoe himself regarding the dips and chins even if it wasn't from the book. I read a good deal on his forum so after awhile I kind of forget whats in the book and what he said directly. Perhaps he had mentioned the dips/chins to a specific person trying to accomplish a specific goal. As for the 20lbs its been a long time, perhaps that was my own individual numbers when I stalled the first time, sorry for the confusion if I forgot the exact percentage. Makes sense that at different stages of lifting you reset by different numbers.

[CDelapena2]

Does any one else find it hard to keep up the intensity across all three sets. Like I said, even if my first set goes great sometimes i just feel exhausted on my third or even second, and feel overwhelmed by the weight, whereas on the first set it doesn't feel too too heavy.

Are you waiting at least 5 minutes between your sets? Rippetoe recommends in his book to wait a minimum of 5 minutes between your work sets for squats and deadlifts and a minimum of 3 minutes for bench and press.

EDIT: I just realized how old this post is..