First time BULKERS apply here ;)

[freebirdmac]

does it make a nice cold drink to get the water down, especially closer to peak weeks.

Sure!

[DaniGrrl]

Lordy, have I felt gross this week! I had my period, plus I made this stir fry with a sauce loaded with sodium. It was a water retention nightmare. I feel better today, though. But now I know what people mean about wanting to throw in the towel just a couple weeks into a bulk. I'm still holding at 2000 cals and know I'll need to up them - it's only a couple hundred over maintenance. I went up to 2500 last spring before I started gaining anything and it was nice to be able to eat so much, but it got expensive. I'll weigh tomorrow morning, though I know any gain is water at this point. It's only been two weeks. But will probably up my calories another 100.

I have been pushing myself a lot harder this week. I went for the 40's on bench, got them up only once, was a little disappointed but at least I know I tried and I'll keep trying. I also went for 145 on squats and had to dump it, but again, at least I tried. And got help from a cutie so that was a plus The most I'd ever attempted on squats was 135, but I got 5 and got 4 at 140 so I figured I could get 3 on 145. It was funny - in my head I was telling myself, "It's only 3 reps, only 3 reps, only 3 reps." Again, I'll keep trying. These hypertrophy days of PHAT are killer, though. In a good way. It definitely feels different to me than anything I've done before. I was in agony last weekend - DOMS were ridiculous.

I'm really happy to be back bulking, it feels good!!!

[locolala]

I got two weeks before bulking! However i feel like i should just start now, i dunno! i haven't stuck to my diet at all the past couple weeks i just don't feel motivated at all, to like count cals and stuff. I'm kinda at a limbo here...

[DaniGrrl]

I got two weeks before bulking! However i feel like i should just start now, i dunno! i haven't stuck to my diet at all the past couple weeks i just don't feel motivated at all, to like count cals and stuff. I'm kinda at a limbo here...

Yeah, I started having a harder time sticking to my diet as well towards the end, which is why I decided to just go for it. You might find yourself bulking unintentionally. Either way, looking forward to you joining us!

[sglgirl]

I got two weeks before bulking! However i feel like i should just start now, i dunno! i haven't stuck to my diet at all the past couple weeks i just don't feel motivated at all, to like count cals and stuff. I'm kinda at a limbo here...

I am almost 2 weeks post contest and the wanting to eat has not stopped. The only that saves me is there is nothing in the form of junk in my home (butter and jam), although there is an open jar of natural PB that has been hit hard. Today has been brutally hard......the package of rice cakes and I had a fight after my leg workout and the Natty PB, butter and jam got involved. I did feel a sense of satisfaction though after that. Night time is really bad for wanting protein powder doesnt matter if it is in powder form, goop form, blended with ice....just want the protein powder.

Has anyone else done shows before? How long does this last before you get back under full control?

[stephanielynn76]

Welp... looks like I'm headed for another deload. It's been 8 weeks since my last and I'm feeling it again. My CNS feels like it's on overload, I'm anxious, not sleeping, not recovering as well, and more emotional. I hate having to take breaks. :/ I'm going to take it easy through Sunday and reassess on Monday. My lifts have been good and my strength is going up across the board... which means I may also need more/longer recovery time. If my coach had her way, she'd have me nix the PHAT training and reduce the volume. I'm on the fence about it. Part of me wants to continue with it because I am definitely making progress. Another part of me wonders if she is right and I'd see better gains with a different approach to my training. Ah well... decisions decisions...

[freebirdmac]

Welp... looks like I'm headed for another deload. It's been 8 weeks since my last and I'm feeling it again. My CNS feels like it's on overload, I'm anxious, not sleeping, not recovering as well, and more emotional. I hate having to take breaks. :/ I'm going to take it easy through Sunday and reassess on Monday. My lifts have been good and my strength is going up across the board... which means I may also need more/longer recovery time. If my coach had her way, she'd have me nix the PHAT training and reduce the volume. I'm on the fence about it. Part of me wants to continue with it because I am definitely making progress. Another part of me wonders if she is right and I'd see better gains with a different approach to my training. Ah well... decisions decisions...

I'm with your coach. PHAT done right, and naturally, can only be run 6-8 weeks. Then you have to move to a different routine. Do a deload, then move to a different routine. It can still be high volume but shouldn't involve lower rep, cns taxing reps. Later on, in a couple of months, you can run PHAT again.

[DaniGrrl]

I'm with your coach. PHAT done right, and naturally, can only be run 6-8 weeks. Then you have to move to a different routine. Do a deload, then move to a different routine. It can still be high volume but shouldn't involve lower rep, cns taxing reps. Later on, in a couple of months, you can run PHAT again.

Good to know!!! I've only been doing PHAT a couple weeks and it's pretty exhausting already. I'm sure a few weeks in, I'll be wiped.

[megdaig]

I hate the thought of deloads...I feel silly playing with Barbie weights. It seems like people are always internally judging me like "does this girl think she's actually doing something beneficial?" But my coach too is talking deload and actually threw around the thought of two weeks off! I think I'd go nuts....I can barely mentally survive one week.

[acrawlingchaos]

I didn't deload when I should have. I decided to push on, though I felt tired/sore/weak. I ended up straining my spinal erectors (which bound my hips up).

Instead of taking a week off, I haven't lifted in 3, and won't start back up for 2 more weeks. Lesson learned.

Deload

[toodlepip]

I'm with your coach. PHAT done right, and naturally, can only be run 6-8 weeks. Then you have to move to a different routine. Do a deload, then move to a different routine. It can still be high volume but shouldn't involve lower rep, cns taxing reps. Later on, in a couple of months, you can run PHAT again.

Where did you hear this? I've never heard Norton say that.

[freebirdmac]

Where did you hear this? I've never heard Norton say that.

From people who have run it properly and my own experiences. Enhanced training really is a different animal. I know there are some who have run it for very long periods of time. The difference is intensity. It's a routine that should be done intensely. Experiencing symptoms like Stephanie's is a good marker that the routine was run with that intensity. Otherwise it's just another moderate volume routine.

[toodlepip]

From people who have run it properly and my own experiences. Enhanced training really is a different animal. I know there are some who have run it for very long periods of time. The difference is intensity. It's a routine that should be done intensely. Experiencing symptoms like Stephanie's is a good marker that the routine was run with that intensity. Otherwise it's just another moderate volume routine.

I ran it off and on for about a year. I found that at times 5x a week was too much and would stretch the 5 workouts over 8 or 9 days. I never experienced clear over-training symptoms like Steph but knew when recovery wasn't what it should be and would back off. I also ran a few brief 8x8 sessions to break it up periodically.

Have recently switched over to Brad Schoenfeld's Max Muscle Plan which runs in a periodized series of microcycles over 6 months; so you start with a strength phase, then a metabolic phase, then a muscle phase. Am looking forward to seeing how this will differ from PHAT, as unlike PHAT it has regularly scheduled deloads.

I remember asking Layne about PHAT deloads last year and I believe his advice was only as and when needed.

[freebirdmac]

I ran it off and on for about a year. I found that at times 5x a week was too much and would stretch the 5 workouts over 8 or 9 days. I never experienced clear over-training symptoms like Steph but knew when recovery wasn't what it should be and would back off. I also ran a few brief 8x8 sessions to break it up periodically.

Have recently switched over to Brad Schoenfeld's Max Muscle Plan which runs in a periodized series of microcycles over 6 months; so you start with a strength phase, then a metabolic phase, then a muscle phase. Am looking forward to seeing how this will differ from PHAT, as unlike PHAT it has regularly scheduled deloads.

I remember asking Layne about PHAT deloads last year and I believe his advice was only as and when needed.

Psychological effects are huge on any routine we run. Sometimes we realize it, often times we don't (or don't want to). For example, if you are facing squats 2x week you know on day 1 that day 2 is still ahead of you. There's this self preservation mechanism that can trigger and hold you back on day 1. Even on day 2, day 1 is around the corner again and can keep the brakes on. Then there are the follow on exercises. We know after squats comes some other hard work (leg press, lunges, etc.). This can also hold us back. Even if legs are only worked once a week. If we walked into the gym and the only thing we had to do were squats, and not again for a week, most of us, most of the time, would be able to put more into the sets. Developing the mental toughness to put just as much into x sets of squats no matter how many days a week or what comes after those sets takes a lot of fortitude. We have to override the reflex to preserve energy for what comes later. Unless we've experienced the difference, had one of those golden workouts where we knew we were truly way beyond our normal intensity, then it's difficult to understand. We all understand pain. Lifting to failure. But intensity is something else. It's very mental. It takes you out of your comfort and self preservation mode. We can have a good, productive workout without being intense. Intensity though is the gold ring you want when bulking.

Periodization is very good. There are lots of those around. I loathe high rep sets. I get bored after 15 So I kept the metabolic phase to a week.

[megdaig]

Oh you'll know when you are severely overtraining. I was having fits sleeping; took hours to fall asleep even taking melatonin and valerian root, waking up 3 to 4 times a night. Hell my body was so achy that it hurt to lay down some days. All signs that the body is extremely pissed off, wants food + more body fat, and needs a damned break

But going through that at least once has given me a gauge by which I now know when to back off.

[freebirdmac]

Oh you'll know when you are severely overtraining. I was having fits sleeping; took hours to fall asleep even taking melatonin and valerian root, waking up 3 to 4 times a night. Hell my body was so achy that it hurt to lay down some days. All signs that the body is extremely pissed off, wants food + more body fat, and needs a damned break

But going through that at least once has given me a gauge by which I now know when to back off.

I felt like my body was agitated. It's a different feeling than soreness and fatigue. Not fun.

[sglgirl]

Oh you'll know when you are severely overtraining. I was having fits sleeping; took hours to fall asleep even taking melatonin and valerian root, waking up 3 to 4 times a night. Hell my body was so achy that it hurt to lay down some days. All signs that the body is extremely pissed off, wants food + more body fat, and needs a damned break

But going through that at least once has given me a gauge by which I now know when to back off.

sounds similar to the last two weeks of prep before a show

[thepowerwithin]

I did PHAT for 12-14 weeks and was a complete and total utter mess towards the end. I dug deep each and every workout. I had constant DOMS, lethargy, full of dread towards training/gym (so unlike me), joint pain, edgy.....you name it. I wanted to QUIT and I DID!

[DaniGrrl]

As I mentioned, I'm in my second week of PHAT. Yikes. I'm pushing through a lot of mental barriers, but I can tell my body is going to be beat in several weeks' time. I am really enjoying it but it is tough. And I'm not one to deload, have only taken a few short breaks here and there due to illness or minor aches and pains and not being able to push as hard. I'm sleeping pretty well which is wonderful since I've been having stress-related sleep problems over the past several months. But I know I'll need a break. I'm hoping I can walk tomorrow. I was having a bit of trouble running some errands and such right after my workout LOL

[freebirdmac]

As I mentioned, I'm in my second week of PHAT. Yikes. I'm pushing through a lot of mental barriers, but I can tell my body is going to be beat in several weeks' time. I am really enjoying it but it is tough. And I'm not one to deload, have only taken a few short breaks here and there due to illness or minor aches and pains and not being able to push as hard. I'm sleeping pretty well which is wonderful since I've been having stress-related sleep problems over the past several months. But I know I'll need a break. I'm hoping I can walk tomorrow. I was having a bit of trouble running some errands and such right after my workout LOL

That's the way to go

[k10leung]

Hi guys!

First time posting my pics anywhere

So the bikini pictures are mid march when I went on vacation. I estimate I'm around 110 lbs here.
The first white sports bra picture is late august when I started doing at home exercise and around 118 lbs (wasn't eating enough and probably not going hard enough).

The last set is me now so around a 1 month progress of eating hard (3000 cals/day) and working out 3 to 4 x a week.
I weigh in a range of 125 to 128 lbs now.

yayyy progress haha

[chrisateen]

Just a general question how many weeks before the weight gain settles down. The reason I am asking is because in the last 3 weeks I have gained about 6lbs (but I havent been eatting enough to gain that weight I have been eatting around 2400 calories). Do you think I should cut the calories a bit and how long does it take for the weight to settle down (or for me to know for sure I'm eating too much or little)

[megdaig]

Just a general question how many weeks before the weight gain settles down. The reason I am asking is because in the last 3 weeks I have gained about 6lbs (but I havent been eatting enough to gain that weight I have been eatting around 2400 calories). Do you think I should cut the calories a bit and how long does it take for the weight to settle down (or for me to know for sure I'm eating too much or little)

Keep with it. 2400 is barely above your maintenance. It took a little over a month for my "weight gain" to settle down. I actually started maintaining my weight the last month at 2500 to 2600 calories.

[freebirdmac]

Hi guys!

First time posting my pics anywhere

So the bikini pictures are mid march when I went on vacation. I estimate I'm around 110 lbs here.
The first white sports bra picture is late august when I started doing at home exercise and around 118 lbs (wasn't eating enough and probably not going hard enough).

The last set is me now so around a 1 month progress of eating hard (3000 cals/day) and working out 3 to 4 x a week.
I weigh in a range of 125 to 128 lbs now.

yayyy progress haha

Very nice progress! Congrats!

[chrisateen]

Keep with it. 2400 is barely above your maintenance. It took a little over a month for my "weight gain" to settle down. I actually started maintaining my weight the last month at 2500 to 2600 calories.

Wow the fact that you are maintaining at 2500 calories and you are shorter and weigh less than me (unless you are very active) probably means that my metabolism is screwed up. Hopefully in the next week or two the weight gain will slow down but your post has put my mind at ease

[happyplace]

Wow the fact that you are maintaining at 2500 calories and you are shorter and weigh less than me (unless you are very active) probably means that my metabolism is screwed up. Hopefully in the next week or two the weight gain will slow down but your post has put my mind at ease

Remember the average woman needs 2000 cals to maintain their weight. The average woman doesn't lift

[chrisateen]

Remember the average woman needs 2000 cals to maintain their weight. The average woman doesn't lift

True but for some reason I thought my maintenance calories is around 2000 - 2100 calories a day. I'm 5ft 10 today weight about 164lbs, lift 4x a week, have a desk job (but work in a school so I do move about a bit depending on the day) but use public transport so do go walk about quite a bit in the mornings, evenings and weekend

[Chocopie]

Remember the average woman needs 2000 cals to maintain their weight. The average woman doesn't lift

Lulz, so true, I found I can eat so much right now to just maintain and that its actually quite frustrating that I'm not growing as fast as I want to. I'm finishing up a 2 month program and I'm thinking about doing PHAT for a couple weeks before I travel home for my vet school's winter break. But I've got a question and since so many of you do PHAT I wanted to ask.

I want my upper body to grow a lot more than it is now, BUT I'm actually very happy about the size of my legs and I really just want to work on lower body strength so I'm not really looking for hypertrophy there. I feel like this means I should change up the program a bit and wondered if anyone here had any recommendations?

[BalhamBeast]

Dairy is not my friend and I have eliminated most of that a long time ago (except for whey, need to find alternate). For years off and on I keep trying wheat products, but I have finally come to realize that it is not my friend either. It seems colorful veggies my not be my friend either, will try them again gradually and see how that goes. I have been trying to find out as much information about sugar intolerance as I can online, my doc can't help me, she is not even aware of how to test for that

Regarding the coloured veggies, you might have a problem with nightshades. Interesting article about them here.

As for wheat, my own opinion is that most people are best off avoiding it. I don't have coeliac but I do get bloating and gas if I indulge and if I eat it consistently my joints flare up. Gluten can mess with the intestinal lining, making it more porous and allowing toxins that would otherwise be flushed through to enter the bloodstream. The result is inflammation (hence the achey joints).

[megdaig]

True but for some reason I thought my maintenance calories is around 2000 - 2100 calories a day. I'm 5ft 10 today weight about 164lbs, lift 4x a week, have a desk job (but work in a school so I do move about a bit depending on the day) but use public transport so do go walk about quite a bit in the mornings, evenings and weekend

I too have a desk job and without working out my maintenance is 1900 to 2000....add lifting and it's 2300.

You are experiencing glycogen stores increasing and the associated water filling of your cells. You aren't really gaining fat nor muscle just yet.