Work Shoulders with Back, Chest or Arms?

[Liftn2011]

Looking for advice on a 4 day split:

Day 1: Chest
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Back
Day 4: Arms (Biceps and Triceps supersets)

Questions:
1. Where do I work shoulders?
2. Should I combine triceps with chest, biceps with back, and give shoulders their own day?
3. Abs: Do you just add an abs set or two to every workout, or put them somewhere else?

Reps for any answers....thanks in advance.

[batman37]

I like to give shoulders their own day, preferably away from chest. I also like to do bis with back and tris with chest at the end of the workout, if I do any arm work.

If you wanted to add shoulders to your existing split, I would train them with your back, or on arm day prior to arm work.

As for abs, I believe in maintaining a solid core so I'd do a few sets every other day or every 3rd day. Since this is a 4 day split you could just do a few sets at the end of each workout, or go harder on off days, depends on what you like to do for ab work and weather you require equipment or not.

Happy lifting.

[Liftn2011]

I like to give shoulders their own day, preferably away from chest. I also like to do bis with back and tris with chest at the end of the workout, if I do any arm work.

If you wanted to add shoulders to your existing split, I would train them with your back, or on arm day prior to arm work.

As for abs, I believe in maintaining a solid core so I'd do a few sets every other day or every 3rd day. Since this is a 4 day split you could just do a few sets at the end of each workout, or go harder on off days, depends on what you like to do for ab work and weather you require equipment or not.

Happy lifting.

Thanks for the feedback. I'd like to try doing chest/tris and back/biceps to give shoulders their own day....just not sure I can come up with enough variations/sets for a exclusive shoulder workout----dumbell raises, front, side, and rear delt, DB presses, military press (?)....if you've got a shoulder routine I can borrow, send it on over....thanks again, man.

[batman37]

Np. You are right, there isn't much except for variations of the overhead press or raises, but 3-5 sets on 4-5 exercises should be plenty.

On shoulder days I do the following:
Rear Delt Flyes and/or Face Pulls with a rope 3-4 sets of 5-12* I try to squeeze out more reps with lighter weight during some sets.
Lateral Side Raises 3-4 sets of 5-8
Overhead BB Press 3-4 sets of 5
Overhead DB Press 3 sets of 5-8
Single Arm Cable Raises 3-4 set of 5-8

I don't always do the same exercises in the same order, I don't always do both presses and sometimes I won't do raises and will do more sets of the presses(as many as 6.) But I always do Rear Delts and at least one pressing movement.
You can do whatever you like, add (front raises or Arnold presses) or eliminate as you see fit. I do it this way as I have over developed Front Delts and lagging Read Delts. Once in a while I will throw in front raises. My rep ranges are lower as I am focusing more on strength more than ascetics, but I've found that my shoulders generally respond better to slightly more volume.

I used to do Upright Rows, but cut them form my workout. They didn't feel right and, from what I've read, they cause internal rotation, which is bad for the rotary cuffs.
Just listen to your body.

*I also do a few shrug variations, with high volume, on shoulder and/or back days, and calves 2-3 times a week.

Happy lifting.

[Grant73]

A few other 4 day splits that work would be.
Chest/bi
Legs
Rest
Shoulder/tris
Back
or
Shoulder/Arms
Legs
Rest
Chest
Back