PAGG Stack - Too Good to be true?

[gkstyles]

If any of you have read Tim Ferris' "The Four Hour Body" (Great Book), you are familiar with his suggested ECA replacement stack. PAGG consists of: Policosanol, Alpha-Lipoic Acid, Green Tea Extract, and Garlic (allacin). The suggested dosage is 300 mg of Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA), 325 mg of Green Tea Extract aka EGCG (from decaffeinated green tea flavanols) and 200 mg of garlic extract 4 times per day (Before Meals and before bed). The Policosanol is to be taken with the AGG only before bed (23mg). He claims this stack is 65% as effective as ECA.

Google PAGG for more information.

My question, and the point of this thread: Is this stack truly as effective as it claims to be, and is it worth the substantial cost ($80+/month). I am hoping for responses from those who have either taken it or researched it substantially.

Thank you for you time,
Gage

[Opies]

ECE is the best.

ephedrine + caffeine + EGCG. Cheap and effective.

I wouldn't bother with that stack if it's expensive. If you can't get any ephedrine, I would much sooner buy something like Genomyx HEAT Stack + DS Lean Xtreme ($50 a month) if it's gonna run you over $80 anyway.

[zackmorris]

17...

[gkstyles]

17...

What does being 17 change my thirst for information

[xxxmassxxx]

Come at me bro, what does being 17 change my thirst for information

165lbs LOL This isn't the misc.

[gkstyles]

165lbs LOL This isn't the misc.

Okay, if I'm unwelcome here, you've made that clear.... I assumed a well detailed post about a supplement stack would belong in the supplement sub-catagory, clearly I was mistaken based upon the responses I'm getting. I'll go elsewhere to get information about supplements.

Sorry for wasting your time,
Gage

[Kid Amnesiac]

I'm confused. Why cut at 165 lbs?

[gkstyles]

I'm confused. Why cut at 165 lbs?

I'm not cutting, I'm simply looking for information!

[zackmorris]

What does being 17 change my thirst for information

Just making it aware man. If you are just reading up on it on personal interest that's fine. It's not often people make threads on here about supplements they aren't looking into taking though.

[rhadam]

I don't understand, his stack is 65% as effective and costs more money. Why would you bother using it?

[gkstyles]

I don't understand, his stack is 65% as effective and costs more money. Why would you bother using it?

No stim. + no side effects are the main reasons. And perhaps someday I would like to cut, and this sounded good.

[FunkymonkAW]

I don't understand, his stack is 65% as effective and costs more money. Why would you bother using it?

This.

No stim. + no side effects are the main reasons. And perhaps someday I would like to cut, and this sounded good.

EC was a walk in the park. Try it before you write it off.

[-MSR9889-]

17...

why do people care so much about young age? shouldnt you be more mature than this as a rep who is older and thus superior?

165lbs LOL This isn't the misc.

you are 30 years old. what makes you think that in 13 years he cant have a far better physique than you?

the kid is asking a question, stay out of the thread if you dont have the answer.

[gkstyles]

why do people care so much about young age? shouldnt you be more mature than this as a rep who is older and thus superior?


you are 30 years old. what makes you think that in 13 years he cant have a far better physique than you?

the kid is asking a question, stay out of the thread if you dont have the answer.

Hey look, a mature adult. Thanks man, I appreciate it =]

Your right, I did write off ECA without trying it, but only because I've read about addictions and headaches. I wouldn't mind paying more for a low risk product, but ECA's results are hard to disagree with, it seems like the beautiful girl with the manipulative personality.

[zackmorris]

why do people care so much about young age? shouldnt you be more mature than this as a rep who is older and thus superior?

I was just pointing out that he was 17 and so that the people know giving him advice/options on possibly dangerous stacks.

[EJVYFZ]

I hate when older members on here give us young guys a hard time. I mean yeah we are younger, and maybe we haven't been in the sport as long, but that doesn't mean we can't know what we are talking about. And I admit sometimes the younger guys can have some stupid questions, (myself included) but that's why we are on this site, to learn more about what we love, lifting!!

[gkstyles]

I was just pointing out that he was 17 and so that the people know giving him advice/options on possibly dangerous stacks.

Yeah, and that my friend, is why I made the thread in the first place!

I hate when older members on here give us young guys a hard time. I mean yeah we are younger, and maybe we haven't been in the sport as long, but that doesn't mean we can't know what we are talking about. And I admit sometimes the younger guys can have some stupid questions, (myself included) but that's why we are on this site, to learn more about what we love, lifting!!

Exactly, I would never claim to be stronger or more knowlegable than any other member, partly because I'm humble, but mostly because I'm young.

There have been some great replies but no one actually with firsthand experience, I guess this stack is less known then I thought.

[zackmorris]

Yeah, and that my friend, is why I made the thread in the first place!

right on

[halberstram]

I don't understand, his stack is 65% as effective and costs more money. Why would you bother using it?

Thought I would never say this, but Rhadam makes a great point.

[xR1pp3Rx]

EC is great, just not for anyone under 21 and i think 25 may be better for a age to start stimulants.

while everyone agrees EC stack is great new research that is published and peer reveiwed shows VPX meltdown a far more powerful combination. heres a link to one study and there have been 5 published so far.

http://www.vpxsports.com/scientific-...ement-meltdown

i do think its time for everyone to realise they are hellbent on useing EC when clearly its research is very outdated and there has been 15 yrs of new science to add to ones fat loss efforts.

all this said please OP stay away from stims for a long while.

[lachyg]

The attraction of PAGG is that it's stimulant free and I think it's mostly from natural products. Green tea, garlic, sugar cane (policosanol), alpha lipoic acid.

Relatively expensive, the results might be worth it.

[FunkymonkAW]

EC is great, just not for anyone under 21 and i think 25 may be better for a age to start stimulants.

while everyone agrees EC stack is great new research that is published and peer reveiwed shows VPX meltdown a far more powerful combination. heres a link to one study and there have been 5 published so far.

http://www.vpxsports.com/scientific-...ement-meltdown

i do think its time for everyone to realise they are hellbent on useing EC when clearly its research is very outdated and there has been 15 yrs of new science to add to ones fat loss efforts.

all this said please OP stay away from stims for a long while.

Why 21 or 25?

[gkstyles]

EC is great, just not for anyone under 21 and i think 25 may be better for a age to start stimulants.

while everyone agrees EC stack is great new research that is published and peer reveiwed shows VPX meltdown a far more powerful combination. heres a link to one study and there have been 5 published so far.

vpxsports.***/scientific-studies/university-studies/acute-effects-of-the-thermogenic-supplement-meltdown

i do think its time for everyone to realise they are hellbent on useing EC when clearly its research is very outdated and there has been 15 yrs of new science to add to ones fat loss efforts.

all this said please OP stay away from stims for a long while.

Hey, I've been drinking coffee since I was 6, stimulants (especially caffeine), hardly affect me. I can stop taking them at will and I get one day of headaches which really isnt that bad. It didn't stunt my growth or else I would be 4'6" haha. I am well aware of the dangers of ephedrine and plan on keeping my distance, but thank you for the advice!

The attraction of PAGG is that it's stimulant free and I think it's mostly from natural products. Green tea, garlic, sugar cane (policosanol), alpha lipoic acid.

Relatively expensive, the results might be worth it.

That is my point, the results might be worth it, but I'd feel much better if there were a few review threads.

[lachyg]

Chicken and egg problem I guess. You've got to have a few people start taking it to review it, and then more will give it a go after reviews. Although it's hard to measure performance without double blind style tests. Oh well.

If you are interested in trying it, just PM me and I'll sort you out with a coupon.

[xR1pp3Rx]

Why 21 or 25?

mostly due to the fact its far too easy to develope a dependence on them at such an early age , worse yet... your combineing them with something else you associate with great pleasure.. the bad thing is.. once this happens you are unlikely to ever train with out them again.

BTW , does annyone really know the longterm effects of high doeses of caffine annahydrous?

the OP alread demonstrates the fact he is hooked on caffine wich at this point if he doesnt take it for a day he gets headaches from with drawl

do i have proof no. but im betting the the age relation problem runs even deeper when you consider the fact that being misinformed and much more liberal about experimentation
you could inadvertantly blow out your adrenals by use of something like SX when it was around...

that my friends is just an opinion take it for what its worth!

[lachyg]

mostly due to the fact its far too easy to develope a dependence on them at such an early age , worse yet... your combineing them with something else you associate with great pleasure.. the bad thing is.. once this happens you are unlikely to ever train with out them again.

BTW , does annyone really know the longterm effects of high doeses of caffine annahydrous?

the OP alread demonstrates the fact he is hooked on caffine wich at this point if he doesnt take it for a day he gets headaches from with drawl

do i have proof no. but im betting the the age relation problem runs even deeper when you consider the fact that being misinformed and much more liberal about experimentation
you could inadvertantly blow out your adrenals by use of something like SX when it was around...

that my friends is just an opinion take it for what its worth!

Definitely agree. I think this is why a 'natural' option might be best.

[gkstyles]

mostly due to the fact its far too easy to develope a dependence on them at such an early age , worse yet... your combineing them with something else you associate with great pleasure.. the bad thing is.. once this happens you are unlikely to ever train with out them again.

BTW , does annyone really know the longterm effects of high doeses of caffine annahydrous?

the OP alread demonstrates the fact he is hooked on caffine wich at this point if he doesnt take it for a day he gets headaches from with drawl

do i have proof no. but im betting the the age relation problem runs even deeper when you consider the fact that being misinformed and much more liberal about experimentation
you could inadvertantly blow out your adrenals by use of something like SX when it was around...

that my friends is just an opinion take it for what its worth!

haha I am not hooked on caffeine, You could call it withdrawl but the headaches don't bother me and go away after a day. I can stop and start taking stims at will.

[halberstram]

So does anyone still use ECA? Meaning the aspirin part?

[lachyg]

I bet tons of people still use it!

[nsgauth]

Maybe this is a dumb questions, but: Is ECA even available anymore? I thought they went away with that back in '04-'05 and now only pseudoephedrine is commercially available? I use to use ECA all the time in high school and college with a ton of success. Is pseudo-ECA nearly as effective?

Take care.