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  1. #31
    Old as dirt... Old-Time-Lifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    Do any of you guys watch the news? Are you paying attention to current events at all? You're just proving my point about people making up their minds about something and never changing it in spite of the evidence.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/02/...iew/index.html
    Perhaps you just don't read history. Iraq had them in the late 80's and early 90's and they used them on the Kurds. Why would any rational person not think they could have ramped this all back up. What part of that is too freaking complicated for you?

    Honestly you're starting to really peeve me off so I'm done with this before I get myself banned.
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  2. #32
    Old as dirt... Old-Time-Lifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I served a single tour 4 years active duty (4 years reserves), 91B (Combat Medic). I was deployed to Bosnia (IFOR, Operation Joint Endeavor), for a year in 96 after the signing of the Dayton Peace Accord. It was not a designated combat zone, only a hazard zone. I also worked at the V.A. for 18 months as a swing shift nurses aid after leaving the service.

    I am appreciative of the thanks, but IMO it seems that the "Support the Troops" movement that started in the 90's has become almost a cliche.... the politically correct thing to say. I personally don't care for what has almost become an idolization of what a solider is. I've seen many soldier that let it go to their head, putting themselves on a pedestal. We soldiers and vets are no better than anyone else, our opinions no more valid. No one FORCED us to join, we didn't do it for free, and we don't automatically deserve respect simply because we joined.

    This wasn't directed at you. Though you seem intent on keeping that f*cking gore up.

    Take it down.
    And I thank you for your service and I mean that sincerely.

    BUT, what you've done is a cake walk compared to what Doug has done and seen.

    God Bless you Doug and may he grant you peace in your soul.
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  3. #33
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter View Post
    And I thank you for your service and I mean that sincerely.

    BUT, what you've done is a cake walk compared to what Doug has done and seen.

    God Bless you Doug and may he grant you peace in your soul.
    I don't give a f*ck what Doug has done. It doesn't give him the right to post gore, be an ass hat because of others opinions..... and you... you have NO ****ING CLUE what I have done.... so with all due respect... f*ck off.
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  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter View Post
    And I thank you for your service and I mean that sincerely.

    BUT, what you've done is a cake walk compared to what Doug has done and seen.

    God Bless you Doug and may he grant you peace in your soul.
    OTL Doug would not rate someones service as less or more important so I am not sure why you would. Everyone that has served our county honorably deserves the same thanks.
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  5. #35
    Registered User Dave76's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    ...but IMO it seems that the "Support the Troops" movement that started in the 90's has become almost a cliche.... the politically correct thing to say.
    And I'm thankful for that and I hate political correctness. I never served but I saw what happened to many of my friends when they returned from Viet Nam. You can hate the war but you damn sure can't hate the soldiers/marines/airmen who served. Personally, I think the "Support the Troops" movement stems from the national shame at the way troops were treated in the 60s-70s.
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  6. #36
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    And I'm thankful for that and I hate political correctness. I never served but I saw what happened to many of my friends when they returned from Viet Nam. You can hate the war but you damn sure can't hate the soldiers/marines/airmen who served. Personally, I think the "Support the Troops" movement stems from the national shame at the way troops were treated in the 60s-70s.
    You are probably right about were the support the troops movement came from. My father was a Nam vet and had to deal with a lot of that BS so I get it. The problem is now the "respect" seems to be expected...
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    I served a single tour 4 years active duty (4 years reserves), 91B (Combat Medic). I was deployed to Bosnia (IFOR, Operation Joint Endeavor), for a year in 96 after the signing of the Dayton Peace Accord. It was not a designated combat zone, only a hazard zone. I also worked at the V.A. for 18 months as a swing shift nurses aid after leaving the service.

    I am appreciative of the thanks, but IMO it seems that the "Support the Troops" movement that started in the 90's has become almost a cliche.... the politically correct thing to say. I personally don't care for what has almost become an idolization of what a solider is. I've seen many soldier that let it go to their head, putting themselves on a pedestal. We soldiers and vets are no better than anyone else, our opinions no more valid. No one FORCED us to join, we didn't do it for free, and we don't automatically deserve respect simply because we joined.

    This wasn't directed at you. Though you seem intent on keeping that f*cking gore up.

    Take it down.


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  8. #38
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    As usual, I pretty much entirely agree with you. As far as the "gore" goes. I will leave it up. People like M314 (or whatever) should be forced to look at it every time they decide to spew their political propaganda. Maybe some tiny ray of humanity will help them to see that there are actual results of our policies beyond their irrelevant partisan bull****.
    Nobody should be "forced" to look at that.

    You're a sick man.


    I will ask a moderator to remove them.
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  9. #39
    Registered User m314's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter View Post
    Perhaps you just don't read history. Iraq had them in the late 80's and early 90's and they used them on the Kurds. Why would any rational person not think they could have ramped this all back up. What part of that is too freaking complicated for you?

    Honestly you're starting to really peeve me off so I'm done with this before I get myself banned.
    I guess clicking on a link and watching a video is too complicated for you. When the Bush administration officials themselves admit they were wrong about the WMDs, it's time to accept the truth. When the intelligence sources in Iraq admit they lied about it all along, it's time to admit that the whole thing was a mistake. Are guys like Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld in on some liberal conspiracy now? Here's a direct quote from Rumsfeld's book:

    "Powell was not duped or misled by anybody, nor did he lie about Saddam's suspected WMD stockpiles. The President did not lie. The Vice President did not lie. Tenet did not lie. Rice did not lie. I did not lie. The Congress did not lie. The far less dramatic truth is that we were wrong."

    Originally Posted by geer_matt View Post
    The irony here is that eomrat defends the freedoms that allow you to contradict everything he says.
    Yes, eomrat is a special snowflake. His military service means he's always right, and a history of military service is an acceptable excuse for being a dick. Right?
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  10. #40
    Registered User Trinity1216's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post

    Also, Friends, ACC is absolutely correct. My profession has given me no special insight into anything. Perhaps I am more emotional than I would be otherwise, but I am certainly no smarter or my opinion somehow more qualified.
    He and you are both correct, but regardless if you feel you or any serviceman or woman think thanks and respect is deserved or not, it is given. Because ALL people who volunteer to serve this country deserves it. I know many families that have husbands/wives serving and I know they do not do it for the money.

    LOL I think you and I had this conversation recently, you know how fiercely loyal I am to our soldiers and our country Sowwy I can't help it.


    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Nobody should be "forced" to look at that.

    You're a sick man.


    I will ask a moderator to remove them.
    Sorry ACC but the title of this topic and the story is also considered gore and vulgar. So the entire thread should then be deleted? Gore is not only visual but with descriptive words as well. You don't want Nazi style censorship now do you?
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  11. #41
    Registered User m314's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    Nobody should be "forced" to look at that.

    You're a sick man.

    I will ask a moderator to remove them.
    I know this is a privately owned forum where they can make whatever rules they want. I don't believe in censoring anyone, though. I don't think anyone's posts here should be deleted outside of a few rare exceptions.
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  12. #42
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Trinity1216 View Post
    Sorry ACC but the title of this topic and the story is also considered gore and vulgar. So the entire thread should then be deleted? Gore is not only visual but with descriptive words as well. You don't want Nazi style censorship now do you?
    The op did not post gore, the op posted a question based on sensationalistic media. I found the topic amusing.

    As far as censorship... this is laughable as myself and a few others were specifically told not to post in a specific thread in the motivational section. Not only that, but some comments were deleted. I didn't see you write anything in defense of censor ship at that point.... though I get it, not my board. I had no issues complying.

    This... it is a privately owned board, as someone who used to be a mod, you should know that the first Amendment right does not apply here. There is a reason that we can't post porn here.



    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    I know this is a privately owned forum where they can make whatever rules they want. I don't believe in censoring anyone, though. I don't think anyone's posts here should be deleted outside of a few rare exceptions.
    Personally, I don't care for censorship... I really don't. This is one of those exceptions I take issue with. I find it disturbing on a very personal level, and I would have thought EOM would have at least taken it down out of courtesy. I am not asking for him to be banned, just the pics removed.
    Last edited by acrawlingchaos; 01-31-2013 at 07:30 AM.
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  13. #43
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  14. #44
    Registered User Trinity1216's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    The op did not post gore, the op posted a question based on sensationalistic media. I found the topic amusing.

    As far as censorship... this is laughable as myself and a few others were specifically told not to post in a specific thread in the motivational section. Not only that, but some comments were deleted. I didn't see you write anything in defense of censor ship at that point.... though I get it, not my board. I had no issues complying.

    This... it is a privately owned board, as someone who used to be a mod, you should know that the first Amendment right does not apply here. There is a reason that we can't post porn here.



    You took a comment I made in jest and blew it out of proportion and then called in reinforcements Chill life is to short to walk around so wound up all the time. Trust me I know.


    Anyway carry on, I have stated my opinion and anything further will be redundant.


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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    The op did not post gore, the op posted a question based on sensationalistic media. I found the topic amusing.

    As far as censorship... this is laughable as myself and a few others were specifically told not to post in a specific thread in the motivational section. Not only that, but some comments were deleted. I didn't see you write anything in defense of censor ship at that point....
    I was LOLing @ the irony of that myself.
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    Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    Personally, I think the "Support the Troops" movement stems from the national shame at the way troops were treated in the 60s-70s.
    IMO....along with some experience, the above is correct.

    Carry on....back to topic....mas cafe para mi.

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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    It seems plausible that people would resort to that in a time of famine. Who knows if it's true. Some of the stories of atrocities in Bosnia were exaggerations or outright lies crafted to get the US involved in the war. Every story about WMDs in Iraq turned out to be false, but people still believe them. North Korea is more of a closed society than Bosnia or Iraq, so it would be tough to verify stories like this one way or the other.

    There's one thing that's true. People will read this story and be 100% convinced for life. That's how public opinion works. Most people still think "bath salts" make you go crazy and chew someone's face off. They base that opinion off one statement from a cop that was later proven false.
    An entire division of Russian chemical warfare troops sanitized Iraq. Bernie Goldberg brings this up now and then. They finished shortly before the air war started. The Iraqi chem/bio weapons that were left were shipped to the Bekaa valley in Lebanon. This made the news cycle for only 24hrs. Thank you, Statist Religious press....
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  18. #48
    Registered User m314's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KLMARB View Post
    An entire division of Russian chemical warfare troops sanitized Iraq. Bernie Goldberg brings this up now and then. They finished shortly before the air war started. The Iraqi chem/bio weapons that were left were shipped to the Bekaa valley in Lebanon. This made the news cycle for only 24hrs. Thank you, Statist Religious press....
    What's his source for this information? Why haven't Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld been talking about this? Don't you think Fox News would be all over this story if there was real evidence? Some of the networks have a liberal bias, but I can't see Fox wanting to cover this up.
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    What's his source for this information? Why haven't Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld been talking about this? Don't you think Fox News would be all over this story if there was real evidence? Some of the networks have a liberal bias, but I can't see Fox wanting to cover this up.
    It was covered, hence the 24hr. statement. I suggest you try the "search" function on your computer...

    It received the same amount of attention as, oh say, the story about the Clinton's administration's falsification of the last two quarter's of economic data in order to help Gore's chances of election...
    I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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    Originally Posted by KLMARB View Post
    It was covered, hence the 24hr. statement. I suggest you try the "search" function on your computer...
    Strong reading comprehension. Why aren't the Bush administration officials talking about this instead of admitting they were wrong? Why would Fox News drop a story like this after 24 hours if it's credible? Sorry, google isn't answering those questions for me.
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    If there was any doubt left, I'd think President Bush would be the last one to hold out hope that we'd find the missing WMDs.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/...4B071020081201

    "The biggest regret of all the presidency has to have been the intelligence failure in Iraq. A lot of people put their reputations on the line and said the weapons of mass destruction is a reason to remove Saddam Hussein" - George W. Bush

    It doesn't matter how much evidence there is; people will go to their graves believing the lies that were proven false. That was my point all along. That's how public opinion works.
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    If there was any doubt left, I'd think President Bush would be the last one to hold out hope that we'd find the missing WMDs.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/...4B071020081201

    "The biggest regret of all the presidency has to have been the intelligence failure in Iraq. A lot of people put their reputations on the line and said the weapons of mass destruction is a reason to remove Saddam Hussein" - George W. Bush

    It doesn't matter how much evidence there is; people will go to their graves believing the lies that were proven false. That was my point all along. That's how public opinion works.
    WMDs were not there because they were removed. The intelligence failure was that either that fact was not reported, or that it was ignored, allowing the invasion to go forward anyway, without the WMD justification. If the latter, it was similar to Germany's final decision to go to war in 1914...
    I'll take arrogance and the inevitable hubris over self-doubt and lack of confidence, anyday.......
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    Originally Posted by KLMARB View Post
    WMDs were not there because they were removed. .
    I agree, and the U.N. provided them with more than enough time to do so.
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    Originally Posted by KLMARB View Post
    WMDs were not there because they were removed. The intelligence failure was that either that fact was not reported, or that it was ignored, allowing the invasion to go forward anyway, without the WMD justification. If the latter, it was similar to Germany's final decision to go to war in 1914...
    If that's what you believe, I should respect that. I'm never going to convince you, and you're never going to convince me unless some new evidence comes out. I think we can agree to disagree.

    I'd like to apologize to you, Old Time Lifter, and especially eomrat. I have some strong personal political beliefs, but sometimes I get so caught up in arguing a point that I make an ass of myself. I shouldn't have brought up such a loaded emotional topic in a thread about North Korea. I just need to disengage and let some sh*t go. Arguing about politics the way I've been doing it, especially on a bodybuilding site, is just as useful as criticizing someone's religious beliefs. It's stupid, and I regret it every time. I need to join Political Debating Anonymous or something.
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    I do not wish to and will not comment on the political discussion here.

    I will say that I did not join this site to see pics of dead people,especially dead children. If I wanted to do that I could go elsewhere,which I have no interest in doing anyway.

    Some might say don't look,but the pics were in the thread with no warning.

    Recently there was a pic of a toy bunny clapping cymbals deleted.

    Yet pics of dead children are still here for f#ck sake.
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    Originally Posted by pvsampson View Post
    Recently there was a pic of a toy bunny clapping cymbals deleted.

    Yet pics of dead children are still here for f#ck sake.
    To be fair, I ended up not reporting it. If sick people want to post sick sh*t, that's on them. It's just shows what kind of person they are... what they're made of.

    I believe if we were posting pictures of slain U.S. combatants strewn unceremoniously across the ground, the outrage would have been different.










    Carry on with your valuable education EOM...

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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    You have not made an ass of yourself at all. You certainly owe me no apology.

    I am overly emotional about this particular issue. I am very aware of that.
    I'm overly emotional about it too. I haven't been in the Army since 95, but I still have friends in the service today. I've seen what the war did to some of them. I have my own anger issues, but that anger is directed at the people responsible for starting the war. It's over now anyway. There's no point in me arguing over what could have been done differently 10 years ago. That never changes anyone's mind or accomplishes anything. That just gets everyone angry at each other.

    I'm just done with it. I am hereby banning myself from future political arguments here on bodybuilding.com. I'll unban myself if and when they change the rules that ban the discussion of certain issues today.
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    I am hereby banning myself from future political arguments here on bodybuilding.com.
    I believe wisdom has just reared it's head.

    Back to topic.....carry on.
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    Originally Posted by m314 View Post
    If that's what you believe, I should respect that. I'm never going to convince you, and you're never going to convince me unless some new evidence comes out. I think we can agree to disagree.

    I'd like to apologize to you, Old Time Lifter, and especially eomrat. I have some strong personal political beliefs, but sometimes I get so caught up in arguing a point that I make an ass of myself. I shouldn't have brought up such a loaded emotional topic in a thread about North Korea. I just need to disengage and let some sh*t go. Arguing about politics the way I've been doing it, especially on a bodybuilding site, is just as useful as criticizing someone's religious beliefs. It's stupid, and I regret it every time. I need to join Political Debating Anonymous or something.
    Here's what I'm talking about:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_con...vasion_of_Iraq

    Now you can see how this directly relates to what is happening in Syria today...
    Last edited by KLMARB; 02-01-2013 at 06:47 AM.
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    Originally Posted by eomrat View Post
    Really? You sure about that?
    Don't post pics like that again. And refrain from bypassing the word filter (using bbcode so you can type curse words). Thanks.
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