Interested in seeing you progress on these. I was doing them over the summer as a part of a complex on Dan John's Mass Made Simple program. I tweaked my back when it got a little heavier for me, but lots of folks extol the virtues of this lift . . . that's why I added DB Hang Cleans just recently on my shoulder day.
Regarding your spreadsheet, how will you determine what weight to use for your med and low rep weeks? Will it be via a rep calculator or just by experimentation on that first workout?
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10-29-2012, 11:33 AM #61
- Join Date: Oct 2010
- Location: Indiana, United States
- Age: 57
- Posts: 5,321
- Rep Power: 122225
Pull-Up PR: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177233951
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10-29-2012, 11:58 AM #62
Here is a quick 1rm calc you can paste in your spreadsheet so you can figure as you drop in reps.
Worked very well for me.RAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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10-29-2012, 04:25 PM #63
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10-30-2012, 10:08 AM #64
Props to CGC for changing the name of my journal. I seriously brain cramped and couldn't think of anything good, so it is what it is.
Squat (started off real sluggish, was kind of a struggle, wtf)
185 x 10
185 x 10
185 x 10
SLDL
185 x 10
185 x 10
185 x 10
Single Leg Smith Machine leg press (right knee bothersome, not sure what's going on)
135 x 10 135 x 10
135 x 10 135 x 10
135 x 10 135 x 10
Hamstring curl
75 x 10
75 x 10
75 x 10
Leg Extension
165 x 10
165 x 10
165 x 10
Single Leg Smith machine calf raise
185 x 10
185 x 10
185 x 10B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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10-31-2012, 05:11 AM #65
I'm impressed with all of your lifts Dru --- I loved your squat form in the vid you posted last month. I hardly ever see any true ATG squats and your form is excellent.....I'm really jealous of your hip mobility and strength on the drive up
Benching and deadlifts are all strong and you're handling a lot of volume in your workouts. What are your goals out of this programme --- strength/mass/leaner ?"Better to wear out than rust out!"
Squat 165kg/363lbs
Deadlift 190kg/418lbs
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10-31-2012, 05:27 AM #66
Thanks Andrew. Sadly my goal is both strength and size, so historically I just rotate strength focused, and size focused programs. The results haven't been as good if I picked one or the other. I'm really hopeful that this program will do both for me. I'm still an intermediate lifter tho, so periodized (I'm guessing that's what this is) probably isn't truly necessary, but I plan to make it more aggressive with weight increases to hopefully circumvent too slow gains. <--- ew, ugly sentence... lol
B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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10-31-2012, 05:36 AM #67
Excited to see how you respond. I know you know how to track and plan. My recommendation is to just eat aprox 200-250 above maint....and run that for a while. Keep pro up in the 220-230 range, at least 70-80g of fat and the rest carbs.
At a minimum, you should be seeing the scale rise every 2 weeks. For me, shooting for 1/2lb/week, has shown to be a very nice place to be. I have tried the 1lb/week, and picked up a good deal of fat. Contrast that with doing a milder surplus, I have put on real weight, and had very little to drop after 4-5 months. (keep in mind, you will swing 8-10lbs just in water/glycogen)RAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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10-31-2012, 06:10 AM #68
Good advice. Thank you. I usually do a relatively low surplus, but am at the moment closer to 500 over maint. My first year of lifting I'd say I was 1500-2000 over maint and I blew up (most not the good blow up). My protein lately has been closer to 180 than 220. I'll take a look over the next few weeks and see about trading some carbs. My fats may be a tad high as those are closer to 100 than 70 (some not good fats in there too).
For diet, I tend to try and err on the side of excess, rather than cutting too close. I guess the reason is I think losing the fat isn't very hard (tho not losing muscle while losing fat's a bit tougher).
The more I think about it, having done GVT twice now is that the gains aren't sustainable after concluding the program. My guess is the weight I've gained each time on it is mostly Glycogen uptake, rather than net new sarcoplasm. That said, if I do a contest any time in the future, I'm sure that I'd use GVT to peak before the contest.B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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10-31-2012, 09:48 AM #69
Today's workout felt pretty good. I got interupted with a work call in the middle, so it's taken 2:49 to get done. Everything felt good, some things too light. I'll be bumping up everything.
OHP
95 x 10
95 x 10
95 x 10
Straight Bar Curls
85 x 10
85 x 10
85 x 10
Arnold Press (learning, this was too light, but deliberately so, so I can learn it - performed in front of mirror to check mechanics)
20 x 10
20 x 10
20 x 10
Close Grip Bench
135 x 10
135 x 10
135 x 10
Zottman Preacher Curls
25 x 10
25 x 10
25 x 10
Dips (super slow, super low)
10
10
10B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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10-31-2012, 11:56 AM #70
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10-31-2012, 12:05 PM #71
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10-31-2012, 12:11 PM #72
Interesting. I will have to do some reading up on it. At some point, I may take a few month break from constant heavy as I can lift training. It has been working so well though, I did not want to change up. I am not suffering any injuries, but change is always good....maybe for a few months.
Any good links on GVT?RAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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10-31-2012, 12:24 PM #73
GVT.xls <--- attached It really is a great program. I've done with his recommended tempo, and with a standard tempo. I didn't notice any difference in weight gained doing it either way. The slow tempo mostly just lowers the amount of weight you can do. He does also have the same exact program with 10x6, 10x4. His notion here is that if you're "quick twitch" oriented, then you may do better with the less rep program. I'm certain I'm quick twitch oriented, but the 10x4 mostly just hurt me (joints hurt). When they say you can add 6-10lbs in less than 2 months, they're serious. You really can (I gained @ 6 each time on it). I'm just not sure how long I'll keep it.
Charles Poliquin is the main proponent of the program.
As for people who use it on the forums, ArchAngel has used it quite a bit with good success.
http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Artic..._Training.aspx
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_.../gvt_revisited
I've attached the spreadsheet I used when I did it.B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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11-01-2012, 01:33 PM #74
^^^^ Oh to have 45 year old shoulders again
(at 45 my shoulders were still intact )
A 2:49 training session
Don't you hate getting interrupted in the gym? It's one of the few times that's 'me' time
Those 10 rep sets will start getting challenging very quickly --- I feel that arms and shoulders especially respond to the higher rep sets"Better to wear out than rust out!"
Squat 165kg/363lbs
Deadlift 190kg/418lbs
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11-01-2012, 01:59 PM #75
Thanks man!
I pulled this out of the article....and think I might try it.
So I've come up with a simple remedy. Keep doing your current program — whatever it is — but with this simple change:
Allow for two lower-body days.
On one of them, do deadlifts for 10 sets of 10.
On the other, do squats for 10 sets of 10.
I am not sure it is wise though to attempt this type of program on a deficit as I am currently. Have to do some thinking on that one.....RAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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11-01-2012, 02:10 PM #76
- Join Date: Sep 2005
- Location: Coeur D Alene, Idaho, United States
- Age: 51
- Posts: 4,342
- Rep Power: 38671
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11-02-2012, 09:49 AM #77
Yeah, I think with that kind of volume, you're going to need excess calories to "pump" up with glycogen.
Ya, pumps are good. It's weird doing only 3 sets now. After running so much volume for a while, anything less than 5 feels like I haven't done anything. The interruptions are really my fault. I workout while working. I do this since I workout at home. I don't have to get up early, and I can do what I want in the evenings.
Thanks bud. Now that I have legs just one day a week, I'm really going to have to up the intensity for sure. Although, I guess you could count deadlift day as a leg day also.B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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11-02-2012, 09:57 AM #78
Deadlift Day
Definitely a first for me. I'm really excited about it and hope I can start pulling some real numbers over the next 6 months.
135 x 10
135 x 10
225 x 8
225 x 8
275 x 6
275 x 6
315 x 4
315 x 4
365 x 2
385 x 1
Some Back Pics after the workout. I'm starting to get fat, so I'm not sure how many pics I'll be posting over the next 4 months or so. Plan is to cut again in late Mar/Apr. May stick these in C's
B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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11-02-2012, 10:41 PM #79
Nice heavy volume on deadlift day Dru! Great job on the 385 (that's my PR) after all the heavy work
Pics are looking really good --- not fat at all!
Your lats are looking wide and your spinal erectors and mid-back are looking really dense and thick. Big shoulders and traps as well
I'll be keen to see you work on your deads now"Better to wear out than rust out!"
Squat 165kg/363lbs
Deadlift 190kg/418lbs
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11-04-2012, 04:29 PM #80
Today's workout... meh. I completed all lifts, but I was bloated as hell. Instead of the usual carnocre preworkout, I just took straight creatine and my normal pills. I feel better now, so I'm not sure what was up with that. I also foam rolled and did my first ever contrast shower (thanks get sum). Wow, I feel fantastic after that shower. I also did the first four exercises in the am, then went to chuckecheese, then finished up later.
Bench
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
Pendlay Rows
170 x 6
170 x 6
170 x 6
170 x 6
170 x 6
Pec deck
70 x 6
70 x 6
70 x 6
70 x 6
70 x 6
Chin Ups
25 x 6
25 x 6
25 x 6
25 x 6
25 x 6
Incline Bench
170 x 6
170 x 6
170 x 6
170 x 6
170 x 6
Hang Cleans (focused on form a ton - trying to learn hook grip, still very awkward)
105 x 6
105 x 6
105 x 6
105 x 6
105 x 6B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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11-04-2012, 04:58 PM #81
- Join Date: Jan 2012
- Location: Chatsworth, Georgia, United States
- Posts: 5,244
- Rep Power: 14153
Lots of strong work in here for sure. Your deads look alot like where I am at right now. Your benchwork puts me to shame though.
Eric
PR's
squat 335x1
benchpress 245x1
DB Benchpress 100'sx6
Bent over rows 245x8
deadlifts 445x1
Military press 130x6
Chin-ups BW+100x2
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=144259741 My workout journal
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11-04-2012, 06:18 PM #82
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11-05-2012, 04:37 AM #83
I'm with Mark! That's a really good selection of exercises in a push/pull format
Good volume and good lifts.
105 on the hang cleans is a good weight when you're doing them right. I'm usually panting for breath at the end of each set. And I know most oly lifters swear by it, but ......damn I hate the hook grip!"Better to wear out than rust out!"
Squat 165kg/363lbs
Deadlift 190kg/418lbs
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11-05-2012, 05:28 AM #84
Thanks Andrew. It's an odd grip. Sometimes it felt secure as hell. Other times it felt like it was ripping my callouses all to hell. I'm sure I just need more practice with the exact placement. We'll see hot it goes. So far I'm sure my hang clean is ugly. I know I'm supposed to duck and catch, but with the weight the way it is, there's no reason to duck. The catch is also kinda awkward. I'll just keep working on it.
Thanks bud. I'm sore as hell today. Kinda odd, because nothing really felt all that tough yesterday. Maybe it's the foam rolling or the contrast shower. Who knows. Never done 6 reps, almost always 5, so maybe that's it.
thanks E. When I lifted in years past, my focus was almost always benching. I'd skip leg days all the time. Deads I've never really done with any regularity, so those are pretty new. I'm still struggling with keeping weight on the heels. I'm hoping a dead day will fix this. Thanks again for dropping by.B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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11-05-2012, 10:55 AM #85
Today's workout was pretty good. Squats were a little weird. I really felt in in my thighs, but none in back or hams. I've been working on my anterior pelvic tilt, so that may be taking some of the hams out of the lift as the amount of tension on the hams is reduced.
Squats
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
SLDL
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
Single leg smith machine leg press
150 x 6
150 x 6
150 x 6
150 x 6
150 x 6
Leg Curl
90 x 6
90 x 6
90 x 6
90 x 6
90 x 6
Single Leg Leg Extension
90 x 6
90 x 6
90 x 6
90 x 6
90 x 6
Single Leg Calf Raise on Smith
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6
205 x 6B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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11-05-2012, 11:39 AM #86
Dru
Just as a note. (and again only my preference),
I did not do the rep and set progression on isolation exercises. I generally just do 2-3 sets after compounds and always keep reps in the 10-12 range. (sometimes more)
Iso exercises and single joint movements can lead to very high stresses on muscles, and connective tissues. I would avoid the lower reps on things like these and allow those to be the "pump" part of your work. (even if it is only 2-3 sets)
Leg ext can be very tough on the knees....
If you are going to try these with the progression, just be careful to avoid injury.
Good luck!RAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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11-05-2012, 11:52 AM #87
ID - Oh, reckon I misunderstood what you had said about the program before. Maybe I'll just finish this cycle, then change it. So far a lot of figuring out on this thing. The exercise that was hurting the knees was leg press, but now that I'm using feet high, that seems to be improving. Thanks for the feedback.
B: 285
S: 375
D: 555
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11-05-2012, 11:58 AM #88
- Join Date: Mar 2012
- Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 1,000
- Rep Power: 4371
Watching this with interest Dru. The setup reminds me of Lyle McDonald's Generic Bulking Routine but with the extra rep periodisation on the compounds. It was something I tried too early and plan to revisit after wringing out as much strength gains from a beginner and intermediate 5x5 routine as I can.
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11-05-2012, 12:03 PM #89
Yea....I only do the progression (reps and sets) on the main compounds. (first few exercises in the bunch)
With the "finishing" stuff and iso, I stick with standard 10-12 (or more) rep scheme. I have found trying to push really heavy weight on single joint movements almost always leads to aches and pains...or worse.
The latter stuff is icing on the cake. You can focus MMC if you want...etc.
You put the max efforts into those main compounds and then give yourself a small break with the iso work. Also....doing the progression on all, makes for VERY long workouts when the 5x5 period comes in.
Here is the part from Kelly's article addressing this point:
. What's Creating His Squatting Strength?
Therefore, it’s safe to deduce that this bodybuilder could reduce his leg workout to 4 sets of heavy squats and still maintain his ability to squat 700 pounds. Now, remember that “tension” related growth at a given volume is responsible for around 90% of muscle mass increases. Also remember that the bar weight on an exercise like the squat is a prime example of “tension”. So what does that tell us? Well, it tells us that he’s using 75% of his training volume to get maybe 10% of his growth. In other words, if the 4 sets of 8 reps squats are all that he needs for his 700 pound squat and ability to develop “tension” (responsible for 90% of his growth), all that the other 12 hardcore sets of leg presses, hacks, and leg extensions are really doing is contributing to fatigue, total work and giving him that extra 10% pump related growth.
36. Is He Getting a Good Bang For his Training Buck?
Now let’s ask another question. Could he get that extra 10% growth more economically then busting his ass for it with 12 hardcore sets of leg presses, hacks, and leg extensions? Sure he could. All he really needs to do is generate some tension in whatever parts of his quads weren’t fully stimulated by the squats and, for the fatigue, he could just get a good “pump” with a fairly decent load. He could actually do both at the same time. What does it take to get a good pump? Well, after his heavy sets, he could simply knock out a couple of sets of 12-20 reps on the leg press or hack squat with a good load. He could also do a quick drop set, a rest pause set, a strip set, or anything similar really. My favorite is to take one exercise after the heavy sets and either knock out a couple of sets of 12-20 reps in standard straight set fashion, or do a modified rest-pause/drop set. Simply knock out a quick 3-5 sets of 5-10 reps with 15-30 second rest intervals. Pick a movement and knock out a set of 10 reps. Rest 20-30 seconds and repeat 3-4 times. If you can’t get at least 5 reps reduce the load. Try that for just one movement and tell me you need more exercises for “fatigue”.
I bolded some parts....let me know if you get the concept.
IDRAW lifts
635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
535 Squat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdgVaiTi4-8&feature=youtu.be
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11-05-2012, 12:54 PM #90
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