--- ABOUT ---
I have been working out 2-4 times a week for about 2~ years now.
MWF: Weight Training
Sat/Sun: Cardio <- a lot of misses though
After 1-2 years I believe I had a ok body. And I didn't do macros back then, just ate clean food and listened to my hunger. I am ovo-vegetarian.
But I had a problem, how to show abs. I believe I had a strong 1 pac in there, it's very firm. The second half of my routine was all about ab workout. So I decided to cut and use macros.
--- EVENT ---
Now here's what happened, I believe I overdid cutting last year. according to my spreadsheet log, these were my numbers:
Weight Neck Waist Body Fat
134 36 79 15.7
And I still had belly fat, maybe it was because I missed a lot of cardios?
And I didn't know that you should only cut for about 2 months max or you'll loose energy, mass, mood, testosterone, etc. and by cutting for 8 months I think that's what happened. I believe I lost muscle mass, and my parents commented that I looked malnourished.
I started bulking again last July, I am back to 21% body fat now (starting September), all I want is to get all my muscles back as well as getting abs in the near future.
--- FORMULAS ---
Height: 163.5 cm
Neck: 37 cm
Waist 87 cm
Weight: 150 lbs
Body Fat Percentage: 21.24510144
Lean Body Mass (LBM): 118.13
Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR): 1527
Total Calorie Requirement (Maintenance): 2138
Protein Intake 129.943
Bulking: 2138 * 1.2 = 2565.6
Cutting: 2138 * 0.8 = 1710.4
I hope these formulas are correct.
Because I found out that the numbers aren't though. I studied my logs and apparently my bulking numbers is my maintenance and I think my maintenance numbers might be for cutting.
--- FOOD ---
Or is my problem about too few food lineup?
I eat (more to the left):
nuts = almonds and peanut butter
legumes = white beans, chickpeas
grains = oat meal, wheat bread
fruits = banana
misc = eggs, olive oil
I once added celery, muesli, brown rice and oysters.
--- WHAT DO I DO? ---
Please help, I can't decide whether I should:
1) go back cutting
2) maintenance and increase barbell/dumbell weights by feel
3) bulking
I am hesitant to go back cutting now, I just want to see muscles again.
But then my body fat might increase out of control, and make abs harder to show.
Can I just prioritize on the rest of the build and forget about my stomach?
When do I stop bulking? At 25% body fat?
I thank you all in advanced.
--- ATTACHMENTS ---
Taken April 27, 2011
Correct me if I'm wrong but in pic 1 (back view) I believe it's normal but when looking at pic 2 (side view) you can see the rib lines.
Did my rib cage enlarge or something?
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10-04-2012, 03:25 PM #1
21.2% Body Fat But I can See My Ribs Like Malnutrition
Last edited by aewok; 10-04-2012 at 05:37 PM.
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10-04-2012, 03:53 PM #2
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10-04-2012, 04:32 PM #3
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10-04-2012, 04:58 PM #4
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10-04-2012, 06:15 PM #5
- Join Date: Mar 2007
- Location: New York, New York, United States
- Age: 45
- Posts: 1,182
- Rep Power: 438
if I stretched like that my ribs would show too. it's normal, and you have more fat to lose.
And if you are bulking, please don't let yourself get up to 25%. A lot of us here agree to cut to 10%, bulk to 15%, and repeat. I'm currently cutting to about 12% and will bulk hard.2011:
LBS: 210+ to 148
BF%: 28+ to 11%
2015:
LBS: 170 to 149
BF%: 20 to 12.8%
Goal: 170LBS, 10%BF
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10-04-2012, 06:50 PM #6
- Join Date: Feb 2012
- Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
- Age: 50
- Posts: 11,523
- Rep Power: 21891
Cut, and lift while you do it, on a solid program (strength training, full body, no bro routines) with good macros. Or eat at maintenance until muscle gains slow/stall, then cut. You can make gains without eating at a surplus.
120g protein is too low for cutting, barely adequate for maintenance. You don't mention fat, but make sure you're getting about 60-70g.
Ribs are irrelevant, I could easily see mine at 20%, who cares.
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10-04-2012, 07:03 PM #7
The world of bodybuilding is not a world of formulas my friend, although they may push you in the right direction. Diet is all about trial and error; you have to find what works for you. First and foremost you have to choose whether to bulk or cut. Your muscles aren't very large so I would advise bulking. Like you said, calorie restriction can affect hormone balance if the proper macros are not met. Establish a rate at which you want to gain weight and weigh out once a month. If your gains are above or below your projected rate of gain (or loss) then adjust your calorie intake accordingly. I saw 120g of protein mentioned as your intake by another post. This is far too low. Increase your protein intake. And above all keep persevering. Keep repeating the trial and error process and I promise you'll get where you want to be. I have faith in you.
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10-05-2012, 03:41 AM #8
- Join Date: Feb 2012
- Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
- Age: 50
- Posts: 11,523
- Rep Power: 21891
No, he doesn't. Bulking vs cutting are extremes that are necessary and logical for intermediate to advanced bodybuilders and athletes. Most beginners with excess fat and no muscle mass are at a disadvantage if they do either. Bulking at 21% BF with a calorie surplus is not going to lead to an improved body composition.
A beginner is far better off taking advantage of his ability to make significant muscle gains even without a calorie surplus.
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10-05-2012, 11:57 AM #9
But what if I'm overweight (my case in 5'6.5 and 180 lbs)? Don't I want to cut and hit the weights hard, so I'm not fat anymore? Are you saying that noob gains can actually be 'wasted'? I always just assumed under development was under development and so I should cut, but the weights hard, and when I finally start bulking If I'm still under developed I will benefit from 'noob gains'..
Thanks for any help
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10-05-2012, 12:40 PM #10
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10-07-2012, 04:40 PM #11
Thank you for giving me hope
Yes thanks for the warning, I too realized that 25% fat should be a bitch to fix.
I have decided to do a full-on hardcore clean maintenance for 2 weeks and adjust from there.
My previous macros was:
129g protein, 86g fat, 244g true carbs (carbs less fiber)
* which consists of:
46 pieces almonds
4 cups white beans (measured in cooked form)
2 cups oatmeal (" " uncooked form)
2 large slices of wheat bread
4 eggs
1 tbsp olive oil
some spaghetti or tomato sauce for the beans
My new macros (starting today) is now:
148g protein, 77g fat, 195g true carbs
* which consists of the same food lineup above but without the grains; wheat bread and oatmeal.
I had an internal debate with myself whether it's a good idea to cut all the grains since legumes (e.g. beans) needs nuts and grains to complete the amino acids. I'm gonna assume 46 pieces of almonds P:23g;f:28g;c:6g is enough to cover the elements that were deficient in beans.
I could up my protein to 165g and carbs to 222g by having one more cup of beans. But to begin cutting, the carbs should be less than 210g, but then again my spreadsheet logs said I didn't gain pounds when I was at 250g carbs/day, so less than 250g might be for cutting.
The common method I heard is 1g protein per pound of body weight, my weight is around 150 lbs. But I also heard multipliers of 1.1 to 1.5 protein per weight is also good.
So should I add more protein or stay at 1g per weight? Yes I know I have to test, monitor and adjust. But if 120g protein is "too low" then I started to think that 150g is good, 165g is better and 180g+ is too high. And I can start with 165g right now.
Thank you, I agree with everything you said, just except the bulking part. I will be dancing around the maintenance numbers with a stricter food lineup like I wrote above. If I can't gain muscles and/or fix my ribs I'd reconsider slight bulking around 20% body fat. Then perhaps yoyo back to 15%.
Yeah I love formulas, they give me some success in the first place. The only problem was I treated it as a one-time solution and I rarely adjusted. I was too busy to adjust, and busy enough to the point where I stopped looking at food for pleasure but for numbers.
I'm not sure if this applies to me since I don't think I'm a beginner ;p
But perhaps I just sucked.
I did mention "2~ years" in my first post. Notice the "~"? You see I'm not sure if it has been 3-4 years now. I was waaaaay fatter before, prolly borderline obese. I followed a beginner routine for a long time, no macros, no adjustments, few clean food... ignored everything, mindset: just do it.
I did lost a lot of weight, but I now know it was a mistake. I didn't evolve, not until I began asking too many questions
Thank you all so much!Last edited by aewok; 10-07-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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