How to gain muscle and lose fat

[Zargarian]

We know that a surplus in calories causes both fat and muscle gain.

We also know that the body has two fuel sources, fat and carbohydrates.

It is known that cardio at a low intensity uses a high percent of fat as it's fuel source. Most of the calories that are burn are from fat.

So the key to quickly and effectively build muscle while losing excess fat is to eat around 10% more calories than we burn (including those burned during cardio), and run at a long, low-intensity pace to get rid of the built up fat.

Anyone like to rebut?

[ramone2485]

Well I'm no expert on fitness yet, but I've been hearing/reading a lot of positive things about HIIT training. This very site has an article on HIIT, with an audio clip that you can play that reads the whole article to you. This other article I read showed pictures of Sprinters that also do HIIT, and they look very muscular and ripped.

[GeneralSerpant]

The more time of the day that you aren't using energy is the more reason for your body to hang on to fat.

[vincewchan]

Well I'm no expert on fitness yet, but I've been hearing/reading a lot of positive things about HIIT training. This very site has an article on HIIT, with an audio clip that you can play that reads the whole article to you. This other article I read showed pictures of Sprinters that also do HIIT, and they look very muscular and ripped.

Can you link us to the audio please?

[gomez26]

We know that a surplus in calories causes both fat and muscle gain.

We also know that the body has two fuel sources, fat and carbohydrates.

It is known that cardio at a low intensity uses a high percent of fat as it's fuel source. Most of the calories that are burn are from fat.

So the key to quickly and effectively build muscle while losing excess fat is to eat around 10% more calories than we burn (including those burned during cardio), and run at a long, low-intensity pace to get rid of the built up fat.

Anyone like to rebut?

ok, so youre using mainly fat as a fuel source during running.
but what happens during the rest of the day when u arent running? how do stop the fat returning if u are eating a daily surplus?

to get to the point, the body will not reduce its fat storage if you are in calorie surplus. it has no reason to do so.
its possible to gain muscle while losing fat if you eat at maintenance or deficit. but its likely only if you have a lot of excess fat & you are new to training.

[SuffolkPunch]

^ gomez is correct.

You cannot trick the body into burning more fat with one method vs. another method - if both methods result in the same net calorie deficit.

For your information, you use an even greater proportion of fat vs. glucose when you are sitting on your ass doing nothing compared to doing LISS... of course it's a greater percentage of a smaller number

[Faust24]

You can't build muscle on a defecit? Since when....


So your body can burn fat for energy, and needs energy to build muscle. Yet if you are burning fat people say you can not build muscle........ I love bro science.

I am cutting and making all kinds of gains.

[DYTrainer]

You can't build muscle on a defecit? Since when....


So your body can burn fat for energy, and needs energy to build muscle. Yet if you are burning fat people say you can not build muscle........ I love bro science.

I am cutting and making all kinds of gains.

New muscle cant be created using stored body fat. So while you may be making gains it can be attributed to either newbie gains or cutting down body fat % which give the appearance of bigger fuller muscles, when in reality there isnt new lean muscle mass.

[Faust24]

New muscle cant be created using stored body fat. So while you may be making gains it can be attributed to either newbie gains or cutting down body fat % which give the appearance of bigger fuller muscles, when in reality there isnt new lean muscle mass.

Yeah cause ATP is only ATP if made from carbs, bro science.
Didn't know newb muscle is diffrent from other muscle, so the muscle I mad last year is diffrent from muscle made last year?
Bro your a schoolar please tell me more.

[SuffolkPunch]

New muscle cant be created using stored body fat. So while you may be making gains it can be attributed to either newbie gains or cutting down body fat % which give the appearance of bigger fuller muscles, when in reality there isnt new lean muscle mass.

It is possible to gain muscle in a defecit ... very fat people, beginners or people coming back from a layoff can all do it. Nutrient partitioning.

...but that wasn't the point of this thread.

[DYTrainer]

Yeah cause ATP is only ATP if made from carbs, bro science.
Didn't know newb muscle is diffrent from other muscle, so the muscle I mad last year is diffrent from muscle made last year?
Bro your a schoolar please tell me more.

It is possible to gain muscle in a deficit ... very fat people, beginners or people coming back from a layoff can all do it. Nutrient partitioning.

I apologize, I didn't realize I was talking to someone whose muscles are so mad. Not sure what a "schoolar" is, so really can't comment on that. But I guess I'll take your word for since you have demonstrated, with all the sound logic and the pictures you have posted, on how using stored body fat to create new muscle is very possible. Well done, sir.

[Faust24]

It is possible to gain muscle in a defecit ... very fat people, beginners or people coming back from a layoff can all do it. Nutrient partitioning.

...but that wasn't the point of this thread.

wait so once I get alot of fat my body creates this magical fat that can build muscle, but only this "super fat" can, not that regular fat....

Yes this is relevant to the thread, because OP has the idea that he can't gain muscle and lose fat together. Yet bro science tells you that you can build muscle and lose fat but only if you are making this magical newb muscle or burning this super fat. Science is you can lose fat and build muscle together, your bro science is a bunch of fairy tales.

[mrmrbill]

wait so once I get alot of fat my body creates this magical fat that can build muscle, but only this "super fat" can, not that regular fat....

Yes this is relevant to the thread, because OP has the idea that he can't gain muscle and lose fat together. Yet bro science tells you that you can build muscle and lose fat but only if you are making this magical newb muscle or burning this super fat. Science is you can lose fat and build muscle together, your bro science is a bunch of fairy tales.

OP has exactly the opposite idea that you are attributing to him -- re-read the OP. Nobody's talking about different types of ("magic"?) fat, but rather that BF% levels do affect the efficiency of the process.

[SuffolkPunch]

wait so once I get alot of fat my body creates this magical fat that can build muscle, but only this "super fat" can, not that regular fat....

Yes this is relevant to the thread, because OP has the idea that he can't gain muscle and lose fat together. Yet bro science tells you that you can build muscle and lose fat but only if you are making this magical newb muscle or burning this super fat. Science is you can lose fat and build muscle together, your bro science is a bunch of fairy tales.

Probably trolling but I'll give one answer

the more fat you have, you more readily your body will release FFAs into the bloodstream that can be utilised as energy. The more energy readily available, the more likely protein synthesis.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...ng-fat-qa.html

[Retoaded]

you know what builds the magical fat?

beans.

They are the magical fruit.

[Faust24]

Probably trolling but I'll give one answer

the more fat you have, you more readily your body will release FFAs into the bloodstream that can be utilised as energy. The more energy readily available, the more likely protein synthesis.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...ng-fat-qa.html

Ok so according to that article if you want to build muscle and lose fat, you need steady supply of energy to muscles and you need to train them. He talks about insulin resistance.
So OP according to that article it might be wise to have a High Carb low fat diet to spike insulin levels and keep them high to make your cells more insulin resistance or tolerant. So you have a steady supply of energy in the blood stream.
Also according to the article and basic bodybuilding you build muscle faster at first, FASTER but you still make gains later on too. So you can lose fat gain muscle on a high carb low fat diet with enough protien, it would just be slow.

[TheKoiCarp]

...eat around 10% more calories than we burn (including those burned during cardio)

If the included cardio is your low intensity fatburn run then surely the only answer is that you will not lose any fat as you are eating more than you burn off.

I may be missing a point but is there really any further discussion to be had?

[mrmrbill]

If the included cardio is your low intensity fatburn run then surely the only answer is that you will not lose any fat as you are eating more than you burn off.

I may be missing a point but is there really any further discussion to be had?

The (not very well articulated by OP) point is that the 10% would be partitioned as energy towards the muscle building process, whilst the net cardio+routine effect would be fat loss. Theoretically, there's sorta some plausibility in specific situations -- but in real-life practical application, a lot more fail to be had. It assumes too much precision in imprecise equations (cal req estimation), and too much binary operation of processes (partitioning). It also doesn't account for loss of efficiency at lower BF% levels, mistakenly assuming this nature to be constant.

The only thing you're left with is: fat people and newbs. Which is not exactly earth-shaking news. OP should alert the media.

[TheKoiCarp]

The (not very well articulated by OP) point is that the 10% would be partitioned as energy towards the muscle building process, whilst the net cardio+routine effect would be fat loss. Theoretically, there's sorta some plausibility in specific situations -- but in real-life practical application, a lot more fail to be had. It assumes too much precision in imprecise equations (cal req estimation), and too much binary operation of processes (partitioning). It also doesn't account for loss of efficiency at lower BF% levels, mistakenly assuming this nature to be constant.

The only thing you're left with is: fat people and newbs. Which is not exactly earth-shaking news. OP should alert the media.

Gotcha... yeah that isn't going to happen. Also I would assume that since fat loss and muscle building happens constantly over the entire day (and night) the body probably wouldn't be able to "allocate" the energy supplies/usage to specific body re composition.

[k9pit]

Didn't read the whole thread, but my best success has come from eating at a very slight deficit some days, a slight surplus somedays, lifting hard, getting sleep, and doing little to no cardio. Maybe an hour walk a few days a week or 15 minutes of light jogging after after lifting 1-2 days a week. I doubt burning any more than 250 Cals in any of these cardio sessions. But even these walks and light jogs are practically negated by the fact I sit on my ass 7+ hours a day in an office, sleep 7 hours, and probably sit on my ass 3 of the remaining hours of the day between driving, etc.

When I say "slight deficit/surplus", I'm talking 300 or so calories. I've been averaging about 2200 calories for the past 8 weeks. Somedays I take in 1900-ish, somedays 2400-ish. I rarely look at the scale any more, I just compare pictures and the mirror. I've been roughly the same weight for weeks, but I look a lot better (probably about 12% bf at the moment).

I could try to give you a scientific answer but truthfully, I'd just be talking out my ass. At most I believe the lifting sessions speed up my metabolism and have nutrient partitioning benefits. Beyond that, I don't really know. The fitness community has been running in circles for decades. I'm just gonna let go of analytical logical reasoning of the why's and do what works for my specific body.