Beetroot

[kinkoshinkai]

Bodybuilders have long touted the value of the “pump” for increasing muscle size. The blood accumulation in the working muscle and the accompanying swelling create the micro-tears that stimulate the need for protein synthesis and muscle repair and simultaneously deliver the nutrients needed for that growth and repair process.
Supplements that increase vasodilation, or the expanding of the blood vessels, have long been on the market, with l-arginine leading the way. The function of this amino is to increase blood nitric-oxide (NO) levels, dilating the vessels for improved oxygen delivery. Unfortunately, l-arginine taken orally has been shown to have limited if any effect on blood NO levels. It was initially used in hospitals in patients recovering from diseases that had led to muscular atrophy (shrinking) and was found effective, but only intravenously. A subsequent form, Arginine Alpha Ketogluterate (AKG) was found in tests done at the University of Florida to be superior to l-arginine in its bioavailability when taken orally, but still only marginally effective. Much of the effective “pump” perception is considered by some researchers to be merely the placebo effect.
There is another answer to the NO/vasodilation pursuit, however. Many vegetables contain nitrate (NO3) which is readily absorbed. Saliva breaks the NO3 down into nitrite, which is then swallowed and converted in the gut into biologically active molecules. In fact, during exercise, the absorption is actually ENHANCED!
All leafy green vegetables contain nitrates, but beetroot juice has one of the highest nitrate concentrations among all vegetables, making it ideal for aiding in the achievement of increased NO and vasodilation, thereby enhancing the pump. “…beetroot has been shown to mediate an array of biological responses, including that of muscle contractility, hypoxi vasodilation resulting in a reduction in blood pressure, a reduction in O2 cost during exercise, and modulation of muscular contration and glucose uptake, thus possibly optimizing perfromnace.” - NSCA Strength and Conditioning Journal, v. 34, n. 4, August 2012.

[Sean26607]

So how much of an effect does L-Arginine have? I've noticed that whole sipping on BCAA's during training my pump is even more intensified with my pre-workouts that already contain some L-Arginine in them.

[Quadzilla99]

So how much of an effect does L-Arginine have? I've noticed that whole sipping on BCAA's during training my pump is even more intensified with my pre-workouts that already contain some L-Arginine in them.

lawlz

[kinkoshinkai]

So how much of an effect does L-Arginine have? I've noticed that whole sipping on BCAA's during training my pump is even more intensified with my pre-workouts that already contain some L-Arginine in them.

L-arginine, at least alone, is fairly ineffective. Most tests that show any results are marginal at best, and often the results are attributed to the placebo effect. L-arginine DOES increase, however, nutrient exchange at the capillary level, even though it does not appear to create limb blood flow! So there ARE benefits at the cellular level, but "the pump" doesn't appear to be one of the direct results.
As to BCAA's they function primarily to reduce muscular fatigue and support protein synthesis (particularly leucine, which is the only one of the 3 shown to aid protein synthesis independant of the other 2).
How that is affecting the pump, is unclear, but the BCAA's ARE increasing muscular endurance, which means more reps, and therefor more pump. The general dilation of the capillaries may be intensified, which might contribute to the pump you're getting. Or it could be the beetroot extract in your BCAA of choice!

[MasterBench]

Bodybuilders have long touted the value of the “pump” for increasing muscle size. The blood accumulation in the working muscle and the accompanying swelling create the micro-tears that stimulate the need for protein synthesis and muscle repair and simultaneously deliver the nutrients needed for that growth and repair process.
Supplements that increase vasodilation, or the expanding of the blood vessels, have long been on the market, with l-arginine leading the way. The function of this amino is to increase blood nitric-oxide (NO) levels, dilating the vessels for improved oxygen delivery. Unfortunately, l-arginine taken orally has been shown to have limited if any effect on blood NO levels. It was initially used in hospitals in patients recovering from diseases that had led to muscular atrophy (shrinking) and was found effective, but only intravenously. A subsequent form, Arginine Alpha Ketogluterate (AKG) was found in tests done at the University of Florida to be superior to l-arginine in its bioavailability when taken orally, but still only marginally effective. Much of the effective “pump” perception is considered by some researchers to be merely the placebo effect.
There is another answer to the NO/vasodilation pursuit, however. Many vegetables contain nitrate (NO3) which is readily absorbed. Saliva breaks the NO3 down into nitrite, which is then swallowed and converted in the gut into biologically active molecules. In fact, during exercise, the absorption is actually ENHANCED!
All leafy green vegetables contain nitrates, but beetroot juice has one of the highest nitrate concentrations among all vegetables, making it ideal for aiding in the achievement of increased NO and vasodilation, thereby enhancing the pump. “…beetroot has been shown to mediate an array of biological responses, including that of muscle contractility, hypoxi vasodilation resulting in a reduction in blood pressure, a reduction in O2 cost during exercise, and modulation of muscular contration and glucose uptake, thus possibly optimizing perfromnace.” - NSCA Strength and Conditioning Journal, v. 34, n. 4, August 2012.

Heres an interesting article on beetroot and lowering blood pressure + dosage

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/di...-beetroot.html

"Earlier this year, scientists at Barts and the London School of Medicine found that beetroot juice can have as great an effect on blood pressure as conventional drugs."

"Led by Professor Amrita Ahluwalia of the William Harvey Research Institute - the renowned pharmacology centre that discovered how aspirin can prevent heart attacks and strokes - the research team found that just three hours after drinking 500ml of the juice (the equivalent of eating five medium-sized beetroots) there was a significant decrease in volunteers' blood pressure. The remarkable effects were still noticeable 24 hours later."

[NO HYPE]

L-arginine DOES increase, however, nutrient exchange at the capillary level

Where's any evidence that....

1. That's true.

2. That it has any impact whatsoever on overall endpoint results?

[Diesel0022]

Where's any evidence that....

1. That's true.

2. That it has any impact whatsoever on overall endpoint results?

No Hype Vs iSatori reps Round 2

Fight!

[kinkoshinkai]

Where's any evidence that....

1. That's true.

2. That it has any impact whatsoever on overall endpoint results?

Refer to the article cited and the source material there.

[NO HYPE]

Refer to the article cited and the source material there.

Lazy response. You didn't cite an 'article', you cited an entire journal.

It's ok though.... we already know arginine is lame, and shouldn't be incorporated into supplements.

[NO HYPE]

So how much of an effect does L-Arginine have?

[kinkoshinkai]

Lazy response. You didn't cite an 'article', you cited an entire journal.

It's ok though.... we already know arginine is lame, and shouldn't be incorporated into supplements.

Which is pretty much what I said in my summary. L-arginine, orally at least, is marginally effective at best. Thus the title of the thread, BEETROOT! The article summarized is on page 22 of the journal cited.
My bad on leaving out the article pages, but your own laziness in not even looking it up could also be blamed.

[NO HYPE]

My bad on leaving out the article pages, but your own laziness in not even looking it up could also be blamed.

L-arginine DOES increase, however, nutrient exchange at the capillary level

Your statement does not apply to exogenous arginine in healthy individuals. I don't need to look that up.

[wakingmalice]

2. That it has any impact whatsoever on overall endpoint results?

Well if that's your standard of acceptance, then you've narrowed down the list to a very small number of available supplements.

Sooo I guess that's that.

[Quadzilla99]

Lets say I buy one of these 500 mg Beet Root cap bottles...does anyone know exactly how many nitrates are in each capsule?



I've been buying Potassium Nitrate but I am wondering if these are better bang for your buck

[NO HYPE]

Well if that's your standard of acceptance

It's not my standard of acceptance.

The OP was referring to the ineffectiveness of oral arginine, but made an exception for it's supposed ability to 'increase nutrient exchange at the capillary level'.

So my arguement was that if exogenous arginine has the ability to do this.... then why hasn't anyone observed any common endpoint results?

[wolfgang_eruption]

Lets say I buy one of these 500 mg Beet Root cap bottles...does anyone know exactly how many nitrates are in each capsule?



I've been buying Potassium Nitrate but I am wondering if these are better bang for your buck

Bumping this question. I'm curious to know the approximate amount of nitrates in each capsule of beetroot extract.

[ExDubio11]

at best, you'll need around 30 caps