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  1. #3481
    No cardio No cry RU4A69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lolpie View Post
    Is fasting 3x a week better or worse than fasting 2x a week? I'm just worried about slowing down metabolism and halting fat loss

    Thanks
    Metabolism increases during the first 72hrs without food, then slowly decreases due to the lack of TEF; which is easily correctable by simply re-introducing food.

    my stomach got bloated fast
    how is that even possible? You mean AFTER you ate?
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    Smaller, Stronger, Faster gjohnson5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RU4A69 View Post
    Metabolism increases during the first 72hrs without food, then slowly decreases due to the lack of TEF; which is easily correctable by simply re-introducing food.



    how is that even possible? You mean AFTER you ate?
    Post information that one metabolism will increase on a 72 hour fast.
    This doesn't sound anything close to correct

    If that were true , noone would have dropped out of this diet saying thier bodyfat went up while bodyweight went down
    Last edited by gjohnson5; 08-10-2008 at 10:40 AM.
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  3. #3483
    No cardio No cry RU4A69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gjohnson5 View Post
    Post information that one metabolism will increase on a 72 hour fast.
    This doesn't sound anything close to correct
    Actually Martin posted that information, if I recall


    If that were true , noone would have dropped out of this diet saying thier bodyfat went up while bodyweight went down
    Those people are in the minority
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  4. #3484
    Registered User Martin Berkhan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gjohnson5 View Post
    Post information that one metabolism will increase on a 72 hour fast.
    This doesn't sound anything close to correct

    If that were true , noone would have dropped out of this diet saying thier bodyfat went up while bodyweight went down
    check

    Resting energy expenditure in short-term starvation is increased as a result of an increase in serum norepinephrine

    by Zauner et al

    There's a few more. It's a small increase, a few percentages, and nothing that will outweigh a ****ty diet.
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    Registered User Martin Berkhan's Avatar
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    Another thing. I've been getting a lot of PM's with different questions which I haven't responded to. I'm sorry for that, but I simply don't have much time.
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    trolololo Ultrablack's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan View Post
    Another thing. I've been getting a lot of PM's with different questions which I haven't responded to. I'm sorry for that, but I simply don't have much time.
    How's the book coming along?

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    Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan View Post
    Another thing. I've been getting a lot of PM's with different questions which I haven't responded to. I'm sorry for that, but I simply don't have much time.
    haha oke , no problem :P
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    Originally Posted by friedrice683 View Post
    the few days i did this out of curiosity and my schedule with work just worked out to be really bad for eating breakfast/lunch, so i just tried IF and all i can say is i had horrible results. my stomach got bloated fast, felt "flat" all during the fast and weak. i mean i had great energy/never hungry during the fast, but i felt like a weak bitch during the fast. not to mention, my bf% DID go up, but my weight actually went down by like 1lb just because i couldn't get the calories in.

    6 meals a day works much better for my body...
    A few days? That is not trying anything. How do you know your bf went up? Calipers?
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    Originally Posted by Jesterclause View Post
    A few days? That is not trying anything. How do you know your bf went up? Calipers?
    Mine did after 3-4 months.
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  10. #3490
    Registered User friedrice683's Avatar
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    Uh it was a week where I was working 8am-2pm shifts, so instead of being hungry the entire time, I just tried IF. During that entire week, I felt great during the fast, but weak. My entire body became "soft", I struggled to finish my workouts half the time, and it just did not feel right eating so much food in such a short amount of time. I would have to force feed myself just to reach my bare maintenance, not to account for additional calories for recovery and repair. I dunno; maybe it is because I am an endurance athlete and my workouts were 7-9 mile runs and this lifestyle is supposed to be geared towards weight lifting;

    I really enjoyed the ease of this lifestyle, don't get me wrong, but it just did not seem to agree with my body composition/body in general.

    If Martin could get back to me on the endurance running question and this lifestyle; that would be great, but I understand if he can't.

  11. #3491
    on a 9-month bulk Tiffany_P's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by friedrice683 View Post
    I dunno; maybe it is because I am an endurance athlete and my workouts were 7-9 mile runs and this lifestyle is supposed to be geared towards weight lifting;
    I think this is a better lifestyle for people with low calorie needs. I only need 1600-1800 calories when I'm cutting, so this diet allows me to eat satisfying, real sized meals instead of 6 tiny 300 calorie meals. If I had 3000 calories to eat, then I wouldn't do this.

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    Registered User friedrice683's Avatar
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    Yeah I had 2800-3000 to eat on this and I could only hit 2200 without feeling bad/bloated/full. After that it was just me putting needless tbsp of peanutbutter in soggy weetabix and muscle milk just to get the calories.

    I can see how this is good for cutting; just not for maintaing weight when an endurance athlete (again I think it has something to do with type of exercise. I think after 7-9 mile runs, the body is willing to store fat than build muscle unlike weightlifting)

  13. #3493
    Just Miscing my life away grahhl's Avatar
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    anyone doing this during ramadan?

    im an atheist but will be fasting with the rest of the family. its essentially not eating from 7AM when i wake up till 8PM at sunset, and then trying to get all my calories in before bed!

    anyone have any advice? lifestyle is pretty sedentary (uni student) and ill only be doing rippettoes during ramadan

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    No cardio No cry RU4A69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grahhl View Post
    anyone doing this during ramadan?
    Yes, millions.

    I don't understand why you're doing Ramadan fast if you don't believe.......... ?


    anyone have any advice? lifestyle is pretty sedentary (uni student) and ill only be doing rippettoes during ramadan
    It may help to keep carbs low during your post-sunset feasting.
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    Just Miscing my life away grahhl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RU4A69 View Post
    Yes, millions.

    I don't understand why you're doing Ramadan fast if you don't believe.......... ?
    i just dont wanna be left out at home lol,

    if there are any veterans here, do you have any special advice obtained from previous years?

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    Originally Posted by gjohnson5 View Post
    Post information that one metabolism will increase on a 72 hour fast.
    This doesn't sound anything close to correct

    If that were true , noone would have dropped out of this diet saying thier bodyfat went up while bodyweight went down
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...+men+and+women.

    Originally Posted by The Abstract
    The cardiovascular, metabolic and hormonal changes accompanying acute starvation in men and women.
    Webber J, Macdonald IA.

    Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, University of Nottingham Medical School.

    The effect of fasting for 12, 36 and 72 h was studied in twenty-nine healthy subjects (seventeen women and twelve men). Measurements were made of cardiovascular variables, metabolic rate, respiratory exchange ratio, plasma metabolites, insulin, thyroid hormones and catecholamines. During starvation there were no significant changes in blood pressure, whilst heart rate (beats/min) increased at 36 h and remained elevated after 72 h (12 h 62.5 (SE 1.8), 36 h 68.0 (SE 1.9), 72 h 69.2 (SE 1.8); P < 0.001). Forearm blood flow (FBF) increased progressively from 3.32 (SE 0.20) to 6.21 (SE 0.46) ml/100 ml per min (P < 0.001). Resting metabolic rate (kJ/min) was significantly increased after 36 h of starvation (12 h 4.60 (SE 0.14), 36 h 4.88 (SE 0.13), P < 0.001), but was not significantly different from the 12 h value after 72 h (72 h 4.72 (SE 0.15) P = 0.06). The respiratory exchange ratio fell progressively from 0.80 to 0.76 to 0.72 (P < 0.001). Blood glucose fell, whilst plasma glycerol and beta-hydroxybutyrate rose and plasma lactate did not change. Plasma insulin and free triiodothyronine fell during starvation. Plasma adrenaline and noradrenaline were unchanged at 36 h, but were significantly increased after 72 h. Both sexes showed a similar pattern of response to starvation, although absolute values of blood pressure, forearm blood flow, metabolic rate and plasma catecholamines were higher in men than women. Acute starvation produces profound cardiovascular and metabolic changes which are not explained by the accompanying hormonal changes.

    full study: http://journals.cambridge.org/downlo...1f376d4cb1ef35
    Last edited by scoot557; 08-19-2008 at 04:21 PM.
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    Registered User banderbe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by grahhl View Post
    anyone doing this during ramadan?

    im an atheist but will be fasting with the rest of the family. its essentially not eating from 7AM when i wake up till 8PM at sunset, and then trying to get all my calories in before bed!

    anyone have any advice? lifestyle is pretty sedentary (uni student) and ill only be doing rippettoes during ramadan
    Nobody cares if you're an atheist. Atheists are idiots anyway.
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    Just Miscing my life away grahhl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by banderbe View Post
    Nobody cares if you're an atheist. Atheists are idiots anyway.
    ok.do you have any other pearls of wisdom?

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    Originally Posted by banderbe View Post
    Nobody cares if you're an atheist. Atheists are idiots anyway.
    Though the overwhelming majority of people are not atheists, there is a high concentration of them here.

    Furthermore, your comment is more useless than the first one.

    In all reality, though, I am sure you were just posting an instigating, light-hearted comment.
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    Originally Posted by banderbe View Post
    Nobody cares if you're an atheist. Atheists are idiots anyway.
    U mad dat ur a moron?
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    Originally Posted by -Aaron- View Post
    U mad dat ur a moron?
    im still not that sure on how this works, as i only noticed this thread today. so before dawn, i ussually eat meat/lentils with some rice, so i suppose thats alright.

    however at sunset my mum cooks all these fried foods like samosas and stuff. the main staple of the meal is lentils along with dates. what else should i eat, i know the goal is to get as much calories/ protein as possible but i find eating meat ussully stops me from eating for a long time and i cant afford to only eat two meals a day.

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    wears U G G's Ted Nugent's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by matthor View Post
    On a weight training day, lets say Monday:

    Either up at 4:45am for work or 7am if not working
    Fast till around 1pm w/ only water and 2-3cups coffee (hunger, energy, mood are all non issues)
    I break the fast w/ a mixed meal P/C and a little F - maybe 600-700kcal
    I then train from 3-5pm and do some whey PWO
    Get home and feast till around 9ish - im not too worried about 30min here or there so sometimes the eating window is slightly more than 8hrs and sometiems less.
    I like to have a big clean meal to get my nutrients in for the day then i get to make up my carbs w/ something more special - like LF ice cream etc.
    Prebed i always have CC, whey, apple, sultanas and bran just cos i love it
    Then i fast through till 1pm the next day.

    It really is so simple. Fast 16hrs, then get your daily cals in an 8hr window. Saves alot of time in food prep and eating and i find myself more energetic, alert and sociable whilst fasting. It really has been perfect for me
    very interesting, but ive read some very convincing articles and have gotten reccomendations against JUST doing morning cardio fasted because of muscle loss, wouldnt going about your day fasted for hours cause alot of muscle loss. Then again everything ive been told could be severe bro-science (which it prob is)
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    Originally Posted by Ted Nugent View Post
    very interesting, but ive read some very convincing articles and have gotten reccomendations against JUST doing morning cardio fasted because of muscle loss, wouldnt going about your day fasted for hours cause alot of muscle loss. Then again everything ive been told could be severe bro-science (which it prob is)
    Nah:
    Originally Posted by Work View Post
    Quote:
    What about the availability of aminos? Our body requires them for muscle repair/growth, but that exact time of requirement depends on such a number of things that it can?t be adequately predicted (gastric emptying, stress levels, genetics).

    Me: True, but based on the classic Boirie study (from which the concept of slow/fast proteins became so familiar to the bb community) we know that 43 g of casein protein maintains leucine levels above baseline for 7 hrs. Now, that's 43 g of casein with nothing else - adding fat and fiber would further prolong the absorption of aa's from the small intestine to the portal vein. Applying this to the real world, imagine how long say 2-3 cups of cottage cheese eaten with some almonds and a fiber supplement would leave the body in an anticatabolic and anabolic state; I don't think it would be far fetched to say 16 hours or more.
    Note that I'm saying anticatabolic and anabolic, since muscle protein accretion can occur either by a) stimulating muscle protein synthesis (the way 'fast' proteins like whey does) or b) inhibiting muscle protein breakdown (the way 'slow' proteins does), or a combination of both.

    Quote:
    Aminos can't be stored in the body (only for about 3 hours), so why wouldn?t a steady stream of amino acids be a better fail-safe?
    Me: Unless you're referring to whey protein (which bypasses the gut = enters the bloodstream rapidly = excess gets oxidized) specifically, this is not how it works. In other cases, the gut will retain amino acids from a large meal (whole food protein), basically 'queueing' aa release to the small intestine (from which they will be absorbed and enter the blood stream). Per my earlier example, this will ensure a steady stream of aa's that can last for many, many hours depending on the protein load.

    Quote:
    And wouldn't meal frequency affect nitrogen balance?

    Me: Based on the reasearch performed in this area, no.

    Quote:
    The fewer the frequency, the larger of volume needed in each meal. What about insulin release due to meal volume and the subsequent decrease in fat metabolism?

    Me:...sure, but on the other hand you'll burn more fat in between meals. Net result = no difference.
    Check
    Jones PJ et al. Meal frequency influences circulating hormone levels but not lipogenesis rates in humans. Metabolism. 1995 Feb;44(2):218-23
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    Originally Posted by Hypertrophyk View Post
    Nah:
    Where did that brointelligence come from?
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    Originally Posted by gjohnson5 View Post
    Where did that brointelligence come from?
    i would like to know as well. Almost everything about this diet sounds great and makes perfect sense but my main (and only) concern with the IF diet is where does your body get the energy for those waking hours where your functioning in a fasted state? i would certaintly hope it isnt breaking down muscle for energy?
    Last edited by Ted Nugent; 08-20-2008 at 06:13 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Ted Nugent View Post
    i would like to know as well. Almost everything about this diet sounds great and makes perfect sense but my main (and only) concern with the IF diet is where does your body get the energy for those waking hours where your functioning in a fasted state? i would certaintly hope it isnt breaking down muscle for energy?
    Increased epinephrine levels promote the availability of Free Fatty Acids for use as fuel. If glycogen levels are adequate, you will use a combination of FFA's and glycogen for fuel. If you are fully keto adapted, you will be running almost entirely on FFA's, with your brain using some glucose but not a significant amount thereof.

    After about 16hrs without food, your glycogen levels are well nigh depleted. This depletion, coupled with an increased insulin sensitivity makes for a strong anabolic effect.

    Remember this simple concept------that both in general life, and to a high degree in bodily chemistry and sensation, that:

    Privation = Increased sensitivity

    Repetitive exposure = Decreased sensitivity



    If you search the thread, Martin, myself, and many others have posted numerous studies pertaining to your question.
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    Originally Posted by RU4A69 View Post
    Increased epinephrine levels promote the availability of Free Fatty Acids for use as fuel. If glycogen levels are adequate, you will use a combination of FFA's and glycogen for fuel. If you are fully keto adapted, you will be running almost entirely on FFA's, with your brain using some glucose but not a significant amount thereof.

    After about 16hrs without food, your glycogen levels are well nigh depleted. This depletion, coupled with an increased insulin sensitivity makes for a strong anabolic effect.

    Remember this simple concept------that both in general life, and to a high degree in bodily chemistry and sensation, that:

    Privation = Increased sensitivity

    Repetitive exposure = Decreased sensitivity



    If you search the thread, Martin, myself, and many others have posted numerous studies pertaining to your question.
    thanks a bunch man, yeah after i made that post i actually read through the thread and all my questions were answered. Im on day one and i already love it!! my previous diet of 6 smaller meals always left me hungry,miserable,and absolutely no energy i would prob spend half my day just waiting to eat again. The IF makes PERFECT SENSE, cant wait for a month on two to go buy on this diet, start seeing some results!! (i read about the lemon juice/water during the day, would it be fine to mix some unsweetned lemon and lime juice with some splenda for a pH balancing calorie free drink??)
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    Originally Posted by Ted Nugent View Post
    thanks a bunch man, yeah after i made that post i actually read through the thread and all my questions were answered. Im on day one and i already love it!! my previous diet of 6 smaller meals always left me hungry,miserable,and absolutely no energy i would prob spend half my day just waiting to eat again. The IF makes PERFECT SENSE, cant wait for a month on two to go buy on this diet, start seeing some results!! (i read about the lemon juice/water during the day, would it be fine to mix some unsweetned lemon and lime juice with some splenda for a pH balancing calorie free drink??)

    I wouldn't recommend it because citric acid can interfere with ketosis, and in sufficient quantity will strip the enamel from your teeth.

    I would recommend it if you're going to be making out with a chick, as it freshens breath.
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    Originally Posted by RU4A69 View Post
    I wouldn't recommend it because citric acid can interfere with ketosis, and in sufficient quantity will strip the enamel from your teeth.

    I would recommend it if you're going to be making out with a chick, as it freshens breath.
    thanks man, im still debating whether im going to continue with keto at the moment. But considering "breaking the fast" reasonable amounts of lemon/lime juice and little splenda shouldnt have a negative effect?
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    I already adressed that question

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