Overweight Gym Trainers

[MikeEsp_Fit]

cthulhupun and Kyle, nice way to argue your point with the big guy and Arnold having a flabalanch. cthulhupun, that big guy probably knows a lot more about strength training than I do, but I would not pay him to teach me. I'd be willing to look his book over because of the knowledge he's gained which we've already established has nothing to do with whether he actually uses it or not. But when I looked at the picture you posted the first thing I did was laugh a little because you posted it, then I shook my head at him for allowing himself to get like that being a fitness professional. It's a real shame. Kyle, I laughed even harder when I saw you played the Arnold card. Arnold used some pretty heavy steroids in his day and I know he's going through repercussions right now. Of course I have Arnolds Encyclopedia on my Book Shelf next to my training text books and of course I respect him for what he's done for the world of health and fitness. But to answer your question, No I wouldn't hire him to train me. He doesn't have the energy or enthusiasm anymore to keep up with or motivate me in the gym. But if he writes another book on fitness I'll read it. I'm willing to listen to what fitness experts have to say even if they're not in the peak condition they once were, but that doesn't mean I'm going to follow them into the gym. If my trainer can't do the workout they want me to do they don't deserve to be my trainer. I've worked hard to get to where I am and I continue to work harder to get where I want to be. I may sound a little arrogant but some people demand more from their trainers.
Thanks for posting those pictures though, it's been a long day and I enjoyed the laugh.

[cthulhupun]

If my trainer can't do the workout they want me to do they don't deserve to be my trainer. I've worked hard to get to where I am and I continue to work harder to get where I want to be. I may sound a little arrogant but some people demand more from their trainers.

When I was trying out for the Olympics (Alpine Skiing-Slalom, Nagano 1998) I spent some time at the Olympic Village in Colorado. There were a bunch of trainers who could no longer do the workouts (most due to knee issues, as it's a common issue in skiing). They forgot more about training for the sport than I ever learned. I'm glad I checked my ego at the door and listened to them. To each their own, but the training center was full of people with the same attitude that I had. Those who didn't check their egos were pretty quickly shown the door.
When I switched to rugby, I found very similar coaches. They may have back issues or knee problems that preclude them from doing the workouts, but they damn sure know what they're doing. I'll take an overweight ex-international over a super fit trainer that has never done anything outside the gym any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I demand more from my trainers than their appearance. I demand that they can actual help my athletic performance.
What about Mark Rippetoe, Ed Coan, Dan John, Bill Kazmaier, Paul Anderson, Don Reinhoudt, etc.?

[KyleAaron]

If Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't good enough to train you, then you are too brilliant and manly for any of us here. We are not worthy of your exalted company, you should seek a forum with higher beings.

[PeteratCastle]

cthulhupun and Kyle, nice way to argue your point with the big guy and Arnold having a flabalanch. cthulhupun, that big guy probably knows a lot more about strength training than I do, but I would not pay him to teach me.

rotflmfao Now this is funny.

If my trainer can't do the workout they want me to do they don't deserve to be my trainer. I've worked hard to get to where I am and I continue to work harder to get where I want to be. I may sound a little arrogant but some people demand more from their trainers.

lol, really??? Have you ever hung out with any pro athletes, football, soccer players etc etc etc?

I am fine with people saying they want their trainer to be in good shape but to say that a trainer should be able to "keep up" with someone is just ridiculous, and you probably know it.
I'm in better shape than most of my clients but some of them can do things I can't. Some can lift more, some have better endurance. I have 1 guy who runs marathons. I can teach him all he needs to know about improving his times and how to train for a specific marathon. I just have no interest in running one and will never do so.
Does that mean he should find himself a PT who runs marathons? That's just ridiculous. He is not after someone who can keep up with him, he's after someone who can improve HIS results.
Personal trainers need to get away from the idea that it's all about them. It's about your clients performance, not yours.

Clients want to train with the guy that gets them results. Sure they might go to the fit looking guy/girl first but, if they find they're not progressing as fast as clients of an "unhealthy" looking PT, they will move to the other PT 99% of the time.

[WoofieNugget]

If my trainer can't do the workout they want me to do they don't deserve to be my trainer. .

This is one of the more idiotic things I've seen posted on this forum in a while. Most of the best coaches in history never performed well at their chosen sport. Many of my athletes end up surpassing me in terms of skill or lifting ability and I'm happy to see them do it.

I've consulted or learned from some absolutely incredible trainers over the years who know more about the human body and how to apply force to it than I have in my little finger. Many of them look pretty average. So do I probably to the regular person. With your arrogant attitude I wouldn't want to train with you either because you can't teach someone who thinks they know everything already.

Personal trainers need to get away from the idea that it's all about them. It's about your clients performance, not yours.

Bingo.

[sonti]

cthulhupun and Kyle, nice way to argue your point with the big guy and Arnold having a flabalanch. cthulhupun, that big guy probably knows a lot more about strength training than I do, but I would not pay him to teach me. I'd be willing to look his book over because of the knowledge he's gained which we've already established has nothing to do with whether he actually uses it or not. But when I looked at the picture you posted the first thing I did was laugh a little because you posted it, then I shook my head at him for allowing himself to get like that being a fitness professional. It's a real shame.

I can imagine a lot of strength coaches do not consider themselves "fitness professionals" like you - their goal is to teach people to get big and strong. Some people simply don't give a crap about aesthetics, all they care about is getting a minimum 750lb squat and that's that, because in powerlifting, your weight class at the top goes to 120kg+ and the bigger you are, no matter what the composition, the better advantage you have.

The problem with this thread entirely is that you are viewing the whole personal trainer gig from your viewpoint and not really considering that many others (whether that is clients or other trainers) don't feel the same way. I would absolutely hire this guy if strength was my goal, why would I not? Because he's not 'aesthetic' or something? I'm sure he doesn't care, that's not his niche market.

I've strongly considered hiring a coach specifically for Oly lifts in the past, I can assure you, their appearance would have been last on my list, because oly lifts require technical expertise and that's what matters. If I know that (as someone who can train others myself), then I'm guessing many clients (who know way less about lifting and have lower physique expectations than I do) probably feel the same way.

[KyleAaron]

But Sonti, if they can't match what you do, how could they possibly train you properly?

Quick, someone tell Ivan Abadjiev that it was impossible for him to have coached Krychev to be stronger than him. The useless 80yo can only snatch 70kg, he would have nothing to teach ManlyMikeEspDumb.

Cliffs of thread:
- PT clients only have aesthetic goals, none have health or performance goals
- PT clients are not interested in what other clients have done, only what PT has done
- OP is so awesome Schwarzenegger has nothing to teach him about bodybuilding
- OP is a cocksmock

[Partyrocking]

If my trainer can't do the workout they want me to do they don't deserve to be my trainer. I've worked hard to get to where I am and I continue to work harder to get where I want to be. I may sound a little arrogant but some people demand more from their trainers.

Lolwut. Most coaches are old and spend their time trying to make their clients/players better athletes, not themselves. Also, why do you care so much about your coach's ability and not about your own. Sounds like you could use a reality check or maybe you only want hot coaches so you can bang them.

[sonti]

Lolwut. Most coaches are old and spend their time trying to make their clients/players better athletes, not themselves. Also, why do you care so much about your coach's ability and not about your own. Sounds like you could use a reality check or maybe you only want hot coaches so you can bang them.

Yes, I agree totally. Sorry Mike, I think we're on two completely different pages - I agree that in general trainers should practice some form of health and wellness in their area (ie. I would expect an oly lift trainer to have experience themselves rather than just reading from a textbook) but to expect them to be able to do YOUR workout too? A career is a career is a career.

You are only 27, are you going to quit when you can't keep up to your clients due to life/aging?

[MikeEsp_Fit]

Oh wow, that's a lot of posts to address. Don't you guys ever sleep?
Alright, first off I said if I was going to hire someone to train me that what I would look for, but as you can tell I'm really picky or "cocksmock" as Kyle put it (thanks for that laugh too Kyle, you're on fire).
It's funny to me how basic this conversation started out and now we're talking about world class trainers that train athletes for the Olympics. Okay, maybe this will make you all feel a little better about what ManlyMikeEspDumb has been trying to say. When I started this post my target was YOUR BASIC GYM TRAINER. I think most people figured that out, but you fine trainers have decided to take it to extreme levels in attempts to make me look like a total ass, and I think in the eyes of some you've succeeded. All you've done for me is show me a good time a give me some laughs. I hope that none of you are taking this as seriously as it comes across. There's no need to get so upset over what one young 27 year old trainer from So. Cal thinks. Hopefully this will take world class trainers and coaches off the table: There are exceptions to trainers being overweight. Obviously if you train world class athletes and are well known no one of value to that person is going to care about what you look like. And I do understand that when people get old they tend to gain weight, especially if they were serious athletes when they were young. All of the points you've tried to make just make you seem desperate to win an argument that you lost before I even started this post which is this:
When an average person walks into an average gym looking for a trainer and they see a trainer that looks healthy (not ripped or massively muscular, just healthy) and a trainer who's 40 pounds overweight, 9 out of 10 people are going to approach the healthy looking trainer for training. I'm not saying that the healthy trainer knows more or less than the overweight trainer, I'm just saying people will automatically trust they know what they're doing because of appearance. This is before they've spoken to either of them. The overweight trainer may know more and be a better sales person, but it doesn't matter because the client already chose they healthy guy before talking to the overweight trainer.
That's (in a nut shell) what I've been saying. The trainers you're talking about, these world class trainers are what, 1 in 1000? even if they were 1 in 100 that's still only 1% of trainers that have earned their right to be overweight after a life of being an athlete. I talked to some of my clients and Boot Campers about this yesterday and they all agreed. Maybe it's just because I'm in Southern California and we're all scum over here that only care about appearances. But then again I posted this same article in my blog and everyone agreed with me, so I'm not the only person who thinks like this.
Once again thank you all for your lovely and insulting comments towards me. I hope that we're all just having a bit of fun with this because my intention isn't to annoy or upset anyone. Let me just add one more time, World class trainers and former professional athletes are not the people I'm talking about. We're talking about the average trainer in the average gym.

[distrktFIVE]

What about this guy? At least he is holding a pvc pipe so maybe he does something...

[sonti]

No, I don't sleep, I have a 10 week old As said originally, most of us simply disagree and some people are trying to suggest that your post(s) come across as someone who is perhaps a bit full of themselves. Of course everyone in your blog agrees with you, those are people who are interested in you and your blog - now you've got a wider audience who perhaps are willing to give you a broader opinion.

You said:
"When I started this post my target was YOUR BASIC GYM TRAINER"

And the resounding consensus was that the average client of a "basic gym trainer" simply doesn't care as much as you think they do. You seem like the kind of person that wants to be the best at everything they do (and that is FINE and commendable), but don't think that the rest of the world has the same mentality. Some people just want to be average, let alone above average, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Some people have offered constructive criticism (some, not so much), I wouldn't be so quick to shoot it down, unless you really do feel you know best for everyone and everything. In that case, I'm not sure what to think. The worst teacher is the one who thinks they know it all, the best teacher is willing to learn, even if it's from someone with less experience or education than them.

[maxnas]

The opposite side of this phenomenon is Ian McCarthy.

[kimmypoohx3]

interesting topic. i practice what i preach but i also have off seasons and eat terribly and couldnt give a **** what i look like or how fat i get, but i am okay with that.
i had some graduate school professors who were leading researchers on obesity, macronutrient biochemistry, and nutrition who were obese. LOL. imagine learning how to eat properly (well according to rda values and ADA standards) from an obese woman...needless to say we did NOT get along because I opened my mouth and spoke up about a lot of things.

[PeteratCastle]

interesting topic. i practice what i preach but i also have off seasons and eat terribly and couldnt give a **** what i look like or how fat i get, but i am okay with that.
i had some graduate school professors who were leading researchers on obesity, macronutrient biochemistry, and nutrition who were obese. LOL. imagine learning how to eat properly (well according to rda values and ADA standards) from an obese woman...needless to say we did NOT get along because I opened my mouth and spoke up about a lot of things.

I had a similar experience when meeting a dietician. The lady was very big, approx 100lbs overweight, as she put it "I know what to do and can tell you anything you want to know about the nutrient side of food, it's the mental side I have an issue with

[MikeEsp_Fit]

Sonti, I understand why you're always awake, it's tough. I have two and my wife wants to have another one. I guess I should start overloading on sleep now to prepare for the lack of sleep to come again.
But you are absolutely correct. The best teacher is also the best student. That's what I try to do, I am actually pretty open minded, although these past posts may not be the best example of that. As far as me wanting to be the best at everything I do, I don't. I just want to be the best that I can be, I don't have to be better than other people. If I know that I've given it my best than I'll be happy with myself. I promote the same to people but if a client tells me that they just want to look average then that's what we'll do. But I do believe that we should all strive for greatness. I have no problem with criticism, that's one of the best ways to learn. The truth of the matter is, although I know a lot of my new friends here are going to think it's crazy, I've written a book on Health & Fitness that I'm submitting to be published this year. I'm just doing my last minute changes and the most controversial thing I wrote in my book was what I copy and pasted into this forum. I wanted to see how other trainers would react to it. I've had a number of different Trainers, Writers, Clients and of course friends and family read this article and they all told me it was good because it's "real" and they agreed with my opinion on the subject. But I wanted to see what Trainers from all around the world thought because I know the culture and beliefs are different all over. And as someone stated earlier there's always going to be a bit of bias when it comes to people who know or train with you. So truth be told, I posted this forum so I could learn something. I think it would be wise for me to reword the way I wrote it a little bit to narrow down the type of trainers I'm talking about because I really don't want people thinking I'm talking about retired world class athletes. Of course this section flows a lot better in my book because you already have a good feel of my personality and what kind of a trainer I am. Most of the feedback I'm getting is what I expected, I just didn't expect my words to be twisted so much.
I don't think I know what's best for everyone and everything, as I mentioned before I'm actually pretty humble, I just haven't made it real obvious here apparently. I'm always open to learning new things, I just took a Kettlebell class yesterday, it was really good. (Ironically the instructor was in amazing shape) I coach High School Track & Cross Country and I'm constantly learning new things, sometimes from other coaches and other times from the kids. I always try to keep an open mind, but I do tend to get set in my ways in areas where I have seen a consistent pattern.
Sonti I think you and I would probably agree on a lot of things, just not on this specific topic and like you said, that's okay.

[Keltron]

MikeEsp, please hit the enter key more when you type. You write long responses (which isn't necessarily bad) but when it's all one huge paragraph it just looks overwhelming and makes one not want to read.

So, I saw that you competed in a bodybuilding competition. I think at my absolute best, I was still probably way higher in BF than you've been at your absolute worst. I'm sure during the time that led to that bb comp your athletic performance wasn't that great. You were training and living to have muscular symmetry, leanness and vascularity. I on the other hand was strict pressing my own bodyweight, doing single leg squats, I was reasonably good in the areas of power, mobility, flexibility, metabolic conditioning and would probably have beat you in the following: sprint, mile run, prowler push, maximum burpees in a given amount of time, and probably some other stuff. Plus I ate nothing but real food. I'd get my meat from the butcher and my produce from the farmer's market. 90% of what I ate was made from scratch by my own hands from fresh, perishable ingredients.

BUT even though you were much leaner than me during that bb comp, I was the one that was healthier and more athletic while you were trying to get your body into a state that's so unnatural that you can only hold yourself that way for a few hours.

I'm not slamming on bbing because it takes lots of discipline nor am I tooting my horn claiming to be this fine specimen of human performance. I'm just making a point being lean and muscular doesn't necessarily equate with being fit and healthy and that one could say that YOU were not practicing what you preach while trying to win that bb comp.

[MikeEsp_Fit]

Keltron, I'm not quite sure how to respond to that. I don't want to come off too strong here because I've obviously upset a lot of people being that I went from having a pretty positive rank to now being in the negative. I'll start off by saying you are 100% correct about my last post. I should have used a lot more paragraphs, I noticed right after I posted it.

As far as what you're saying about me doing a bodybuilding competition, you're right it is considered unhealthy to be that lean. The same could be said about distance runners who maintain a body fat percentage of around 2-5% year round. Or some wrestlers/boxers/mixed martial artists who cut weight for a match. I Think we can agree that specific types of athletes are an exception to the rule when it comes to general health for the average person as I said above.

Being that you're a strength and conditioning coach I'm sure there's a lot of things you could beat me on year round no matter what I'm training for. I rarely train for pure strength or power. I'm more of a all show no go kind of guy when it comes to muscles. I could be wrong but I don't think you could beat me in very many running events. I've been a runner for about 15 years, my endurance and speed have always been pretty solid. I'm also a Track & Cross Country Coach so going by my own set of standards that I've been arguing I hold myself accountable to stay in good running condition. And I always keep my diet clean, I'm not a supplement junkie. I went through my phase when I was a young lifter but now I know better.

Our egos aside, you are all focusing way too much on what I look like and my background. I'm really starting to feel that if I was an average looking guy instead of having bodybuilding type profile pictures no one would care as much about what I wrote. You'd probably just read it and say, "yeah it's good idea for trainers to stay in shape." I'm not intending to compare anyone to myself. I happen to like bodybuilding and staying pretty lean, that's just me, I don't expect the entire world to do what I'm doing. One of the great things about good Trainers is that they all have their own difference specialties. I don't want us all to be the same.

Keltron, I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to get across to me here. It kind of sounds like you wanted to promote how healthy and strong you can be without being very lean, point out that bodybuilders are unhealthy however disciplined and make me sound like an ass saying I don't practice what I preach.

To this I say good job to you on maintaining a healthy and all around functioning body that allows you to be strong, fast and enduring. Most serious natural bodybuilders are extremely healthy, the majority of the unhealthy ones are the guys taking every drug they can to get bigger, stronger, faster. I promote giving your best, and I practice that sermon on a daily basis. You're going to have to cut a little deeper if you want to accuse or convince me of hypocrisy.

This argument I'm making isn't about me. It's about all of us as Trainers. Let's stop making this personal. No one cares about me. Let's focus on the topic if we really want to keep arguing it.

[adpayne]

This comment is coming from a gymrat who has never hired a PT, but has seen many in action over the years.

It seems as if 2 different topics are being discussed here. It started off about the relative appearance/fitness requirements of a "regular" PT. Somewhere it veered off into training instruction for the Olympic lifts, and pure strength training.

Since the vast majority of people who consult with a PT are looking for weight reduction/general fitness....I agree with the OP that you should practice what you preach. If you can't get yourself into shape (working in a freaking gym all day!) I wouldn't trust you to help me.


When the topic switches to "sport specific" training, such as Olympic lifting, powerlifting/strongman, then appearance doesn't matter. Why? Because that isn't what they are selling, and that isn't what I'm buying. I'm paying for "performance" based instruction which does not have anything to do with weight loss, etc.

Just a view from the outside.

[sonti]

^I don't disagree with you in general but the flip side is that the average client does not have the same standards of physique as many people here do. Gwyneth Paltrow is skinny and weak to most of us girls on BB.com but the average woman would love to look like that. Likewise, there are plenty of potential PT clients out there that would be very happy to look like Dita Von Teese or even Jennifer Hudson rather than Kelly Ripa... so whose "fit" are we talking???

[MikeEsp_Fit]

Adpayne, thank you. That's all I've been trying to say. Maybe I went into depth too much. I should have just made it short, sweet and simply put the way you did. And the outside view is the one that matters most. Some trainers get too involved in themselves a lot of times and forget whose opinions keep us employed.

[mariocasas]

This comment is coming from a gymrat who has never hired a PT, but has seen many in action over the years.

It seems as if 2 different topics are being discussed here. It started off about the relative appearance/fitness requirements of a "regular" PT. Somewhere it veered off into training instruction for the Olympic lifts, and pure strength training.

Since the vast majority of people who consult with a PT are looking for weight reduction/general fitness....I agree with the OP that you should practice what you preach. If you can't get yourself into shape (working in a freaking gym all day!) I wouldn't trust you to help me.


When the topic switches to "sport specific" training, such as Olympic lifting, powerlifting/strongman, then appearance doesn't matter. Why? Because that isn't what they are selling, and that isn't what I'm buying. I'm paying for "performance" based instruction which does not have anything to do with weight loss, etc.

Just a view from the outside.

"Amen" to that brother, well said!

[Cranz]

Judging just by appearance, would you hire this guy to train you?



Appearance isn't everything, and clients know that, they're not stupid.

And believe it or not, not everyone who hires a PT is doing physical training for the sake of their looks. If someone comes to me because they want their back to stop hurting and to keep up with their kids as they age, well... and this is more common than not.

Invalid. You cannot compare the 70 years old arnold with a young trainer. At arnold's age, it is where life's cycle kicks in, you have to look like that, or a little but leaner. Just forget Muscle.

@OP, I agree with you. Not every trainer has to be 200lbs 9 bf, but I see 20bf trainers or really tiny ones. This is what I dislike.

No offense to anyone, it is simply my opinion as a client.

[MikeEsp_Fit]

I'm still glad you posted that photo though Kyle. Me and a few others I showed it to had a pretty good laugh over it. I always like a Trainer with a sense of humor.

[Footballa_19]

First of all, I don't care if you are jabba the hut, if you can get a 47 yr old woman back into a size of jeans she was in 10 yrs ago, she will talk to everyone about it and you will get clients. Results speak in our business, i have seen in shape guys who couldn't get client because clients saw through their aesthetics in about a month.. I may be wrong but seeing what i do on a daily basis makes me believe otherwise. I would never judge another health professional based on their looks. I am there for their knowledge, and that's it. That is what i believe the reality of it is. Maybe it is different in other regions.

Second of all, I cant really take posts on here saying that looks do matter very seriously. If you are on a bodybuilding website, chatting in forums, then you are no longer like the normal 90% of the population. So in my opinion, your view on it is moot. Of course you want a good looking and in shape PT, you have the motivation to see the fitness and bodybuilding industry from a much more appreciative level. The rest of the people (the majority of which I train) will never know about bodybuilding.com. Thats why they need professional help! Their lack of knowing how to live a healthy lifestyle is what got them to how they are.

I am not saying that EVERY client is my definition of normal, but the vast majority are. Thats why our certifications cover returning entire homeostasis of the body to people, and not just how to give them bigger biceps. i don't expect a lot of non-pt people on here to understand, but the PT's who have been doing this a while will.

[BC02]

First of all, I don't care if you are jabba the hut, if you can get a 47 yr old woman back into a size of jeans she was in 10 yrs ago, she will talk to everyone about it and you will get clients.

this

[MikeEsp_Fit]

Footballa

That's not the point. The point I'm making is that the 47 year old woman wouldn't give Jabba a chance because she'd be talking to Trainer Solo instead. I know that a lot of these overweight trainers know their stuff, I'm just saying they should use that knowledge on themselves.

[Footballa_19]

For the sake of conversation, I am afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Mike. Perhaps people are just different in our two regions. I can see where you are coming from, and I once thought that way too. I have since changed my mind on the subject. If it works for you and helps you be successful, keep doin what you're doin.

[MikeEsp_Fit]

Thanks Matt, I'm still pretty young, maybe I will see things differently when I've been in the industry a little longer. I just know that I wouldn't personally feel comfortable giving someone heath and fitness advice if I didn't have my own in check. That's a pretty impressive background you've got there by the way. I'm sure there's plenty of other things we do agree on.

[KathyEspFit]

i think all trainers should do their best to stay in shape.