why do women fail?

[latebloomingmom]

I have been on this site for a little while now and I read a lot of the threads that we women write and I have been thinking this over lately...wondering what you all think..
why do women fail at getting into shape?

scenario one: a woman who is considered normal weight but wants to add muscle
scenario two: a woman that is on the chubby side but wants to lose weight and add muscle
scenario three: a woman who is thin and wants to add muscle




if you had to list say the top two or three mistakes we make all the time..what would you say?
I have my own theories but from experience I can only really relate with the second scenario
in my case, I think when a woman is heavy she can become so obsessed with dieting and cutting down her calories and doing lots and lots of cardio that sometimes, it interferes with her ability to add muscle..

[birdiefu]

I think you are missing the scenario of the women who are afraid to put on muscle "bulk" and think a lower scale weight will give them the tight and "toned" body they seek.

[latebloomingmom]

I think you are missing the scenario of the women who are afraid to put on muscle "bulk" and think a lower scale weight will give them the tight and "toned" body they seek.

meaning if they can just get that bodyfat down low enough they will somehow magically be able to see muscle?

[discdoggie]

If someone "fails" at gaining muscle it is because they're not eating enough and definitely not training hard enough. Many people THiNK they're training g hard, but they're not really.

[skulpted]

I've been at this body transformation thing forever and I am still learning new things all the time. The #1 thing I realized recently in reading the bulking thread, cutting thread and recomp stuff is that to get the body I want (less fat, more muscle), well it isn't gonna happen in 12 weeks or even 6 mos...it will take years. And that's ok. I have to spend a dedicated amount of time bulking, then cutting and repeating that cycle a few times to get close to what I am after. I was always dieting...now I realize how important bulking is. Not just for gaining muscle but for getting my calories up to where they should be. I've seen so many women on this site who are doing it right and are able to eat waaaay more than me. I never thought that was possible but now I believe!

[dreahere]

Women on here fail at building muscle mainly because a.) they're afraid to eat, or b.) they're obsessed with eating "clean", or c.) they're afraid to gain scale weight, or d.) they're afraid to gain a teeny bit of fat along with the muscle, or e.) they're obsessed with being able to see their abz at all times, or f.) all of the above.

Believe me, I know, because I was just as crazee. I needed all kinds of tough love and support from the bulking thread ladies, without whom I'd never have reached the meager accomplishments that I have.

[Miranda]

i've been reading people's blogs for years and in terms of 'not getting in shape' there seem to be a few subtypes.

- subconscious self-sabotage. these are women who think transforming their bodies will make them happy. they also often choose a very specific goal (a competition) and a plan of perfection to get there. then they slip, give up, eat a lot of food, disappear and come back 15 pounds heavier and start all over again. IT'S ALL 100% FROM NOW ON!

- inconsistency. women who change their training/diet every in every possible combination by the month 'to shake things up'. they also tend to fall prey to various bros who tell them they can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time if they follow his/her plans. then they switch to a different bro plan a few months later.

- orthorexics get caught up in the health aspect of what they're eating and fail to fully grasp everything you put in your mouth has calories that add up. or they kind of get it, but reckon the factoid they're 'clean' calories means the body will say 'thank you' and burn them some fat for it (i actually remember someone say this lol).

- the 'more is better' crowd reckon that if a bit of something is good, then a lot of it is even better. only losers take time off. then they burn out in two weeks.

[Michelle_Rose]

I've been at this body transformation thing forever and I am still learning new things all the time. The #1 thing I realized recently in reading the bulking thread, cutting thread and recomp stuff is that to get the body I want (less fat, more muscle), well it isn't gonna happen in 12 weeks or even 6 mos...it will take years.

I think thats the answer.. people think they will get the body they want with a 12 weeks program. with stupid articles in magazines like : get a bikini body in just 10 minutes a day (and things like that)... or buy that abs machine and 3 times a week is all you need for a 6 pack... its not supposed to be easy, and it takes years. and once you get the weight or measurements your want, you still have to work to keep them.

life sucks, but it has to be a life style, not a 12 weeks starvation/gym/no carbs.

[Whitekoala]

Diet is the reason why.

You need to count calories. Whether you are trying to put on muscle(in a calorie surplus) or trying to lose fat(in a calorie deficit)

What will generally happen is that people will count calories for the first month. Lose about 4lbs of fat, then go back to their old habits. And what happens is that they gain it back

its more than counting calories, you have to embrace it, its a lifestyle change, its not something you do for a few months then go back to your old habits.

[discdoggie]

I've been at this body transformation thing forever and I am still learning new things all the time. The #1 thing I realized recently in reading the bulking thread, cutting thread and recomp stuff is that to get the body I want (less fat, more muscle), well it isn't gonna happen in 12 weeks or even 6 mos...it will take years. And that's ok.!

I agree dramatic changes don't happen over night, but it also shouldn't take a lifetime to get the physique you want. If a trainee hasn't made SIGNIFIGANT gains in a year's time, something's off. Nutrition, maybe, but most likely training. Most people (women, anyway) simply don't push themselves hard enough in the gym. Hard enough to make gains. They think they do, but they don't.

Women on here fail at building muscle mainly because a.) they're afraid to eat, or b.) they're obsessed with eating "clean", or c.) they're afraid to gain scale weight, or d.) they're afraid to gain a teeny bit of fat along with the muscle, or e.) they're obsessed with being able to see their abz at all times, or f.) all of the above.
.

I think certain long-running threads here actually feed into some of these neuroses. Trainees should spend less time worrying about food, less time on message boards TALKING about worrying about food, and more time in the gym with the Big Lifts.





Oh, and one more thing: "cardio" is not evil. Cardio simply for fat loss' sake probably isn't the best way to reach one's goals, but I have successfully combined distance trail running with gaining appreciable mass. I wasn't running to burn fat. I was running (and still run) because Bob the Wonder Dog and I love being out on the trails.

[AD1984]

I think it breaks down to:

1) misinformation
2) lack of commitement

Even if you are misinformed, if you are committed, when you fail to see results and end up spinning your wheels, you will start researching sh*t on your own.

If you want it bad enough, you will find a way to get it.

[dreahere]

I think certain long-running threads here actually feed into some of these neuroses. Trainees should spend less time worrying about food, less time on message boards TALKING about worrying about food, and more time in the gym with the Big Lifts.

You gotta do something when it's slow in work. And they won't let me deadlift in my office. Bastards.

[latebloomingmom]

Thank you for all your input everyone...I'm reading
very interesting so far..



is too much cardio counterproductive? does it all depend on how many calories you are taking in? How heavy your lifts are?


for instance..I see a lot of what I refer to as the
'pink dumbells' in the gym..lots of women (young and old) lifting little five, ten pounders lots and lots of times..




I been reading on here since joining and trying to figure this out and the formula seems simple enough..
1)figure out your macros and chart them
2)make sure you are getting your protein in
3)lift heavy
4)rest
5)repeat
I see this advice given in here over and over and yet..a very small percentage of women actually follow it..

[discdoggie]

You gotta do something when it's slow in work. And they won't let me deadlift in my office. Bastards.

Right, but I'm sure you get my point. Now, there are some "numbers geeks" who get off on the technical stuff, but for the rest of us, it really doesn't need to be so complicated. As long as protein needs are being met everything else should be common sense. Want to gain? Eat more. Need to lose? Eat less. You really don't even NEED to track or weigh/measure. It helps put things in perspective, but lots of people have had success without it. And to those who get sucked in and get obsessive, all that stuff makes it worse, I think.

I've read some of these support threads. I think certain people may be more hurt from them than helped.

[discdoggie]

is too much cardio counterproductive? does it all depend on how many calories you are taking in? How heavy your lifts are?

I think it depends on a lot of stuff. People with more fat to lose can get away with more cardio.

I see this advice given in here over and over and yet..a very small percentage of women actually follow it..

Because MOST women, even if they claim they want to grow muscle, really are afraid to. They just wanna be smaller at all costs. And the ones who are already small want to stay that way. I will go ahead and admit that going up in clothes sizes stung me. And not from fat, but from muscle. My lats have grown so that XXS shirts no longer fit comfortably. I can't get 00 pants half-way up my leg anymore. As proud as I am from my gains, this still bothers me. Being *tiny* was part of my identity. Losing that was like losing part of me.

[latebloomingmom]

I think it depends on a lot of stuff. People with more fat to lose can get away with more cardio.


Because MOST women, even if they claim they want to grow muscle, really are afraid to. They just wanna be smaller at all costs. And the ones who are already small want to stay that way. I will go ahead and admit that going up in clothes sizes stung me. And not from fat, but from muscle. My lats have grown so that XXS shirts no longer fit comfortably. I can't get 00 pants half-way up my leg anymore. As proud as I am from my gains, this still bothers me. Being *tiny* was part of my identity. Losing that was like losing part of me.

I can understand this..if you have always been (excuse the word) petite or
thin, tiny I dont know which word you prefer..but then your body changes..even if it is in a good way..
takes getting used to
I of course come into it from the opposite end of the spectrum...being overweight for years becomes part of my identity, who I was
changing that meant getting used to a whole new me.

[andrerox80]

i do agree w/ what's been said, but rereading the initial question, before giving the scenarios, you ask why women "fail to get into shape." and i think that's false. i think many are "in shape," or at least get there, but want more. that's where all the scenarios come in. and while many fail, there are plenty of success stories. outnumbered, yes, but we witness transformations all the time.

i've been reading people's blogs for years and in terms of 'not getting in shape' there seem to be a few subtypes.

- subconscious self-sabotage. these are women who think transforming their bodies will make them happy. they also often choose a very specific goal (a competition) and a plan of perfection to get there. then they slip, give up, eat a lot of food, disappear and come back 15 pounds heavier and start all over again. IT'S ALL 100% ON FROM NOW!

- inconsistency. women who change their training/diet every in every possible combination by the month 'to shake things up'. they also tend to fall prey to various bros who tell them they can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time if they follow his/her plans. then they switch to a different bro plan a few months later.

- orthorexics get caught up in the health aspect of what they're eating and fail to fully grasp everything you put in your mouth has calories that add up. or they kind of get it, but reckon the factoid they're 'clean' means the body will say 'thank you' and burn them some fat for it (i actually remember someone say this lol).

- the 'more is better' crowd reckon that if a bit of something is good, then a lot of it is even better. only losers take time off. then they burn out in two weeks.

damn rep system won't let me rep you. i spread it around, i swear!

[swooshie]

I have been on this site for a little while now and I read a lot of the threads that we women write and I have been thinking this over lately...wondering what you all think..
why do women fail at getting into shape?

IMO I think it comes from a lack of discipline, commitment, drive and understanding how to obtain a specific goal. I think people go into it with good intent, but it's very, very hard and a real mind game. It takes a lot of goal setting, both short and long term, and it takes accepting the fact that it takes a very long time. People give up too soon and they point fingers and try to justify the reason they're not meeting their goals instead of owning their own behavior/decisions.

[latebloomingmom]

i do agree w/ what's been said, but rereading the initial question, before giving the scenarios, you ask why women "fail to get into shape." and i think that's false. i think many are "in shape," or at least get there, but want more. that's where all the scenarios come in. and while many fail, there are plenty of success stories. outnumbered, yes, but we witness transformations all the time.

well ya gotta be careful about what words you use around here...toned, in shape, cut, defined, buff...I do mean strong/muscular..
when I say fail, I dont mean as a human being of course or fail in all things but
fail in their fitness goals..
time, know-how, committment, diet all important things I agree but
is there a fear of success? of getting too big? too muscular?

we are a 'quick fix' kind of world and this is a long-term solution..
I do appreciate all the information..this place is a massive gold mine sometimes of very knowledgeable people
anytime I ever have a question
it has always been answered!

[Miranda]

is there a fear of success?

i think so. my initial thought to the title of the thread was that

women fail because they WANT TO fail.

it would take a lot of depth to dissect further, but i've hunch that plenty goes into looking for a 'fix' (buffdom/fat loss etc.) that, upon closer inspection, doesn't fix the person at all. hence the 1st subtype in the above post.

there are a gazillion women here who fit that picture and, sadly, they will never find peace because they will keep searching for salvation in the wrong place so as not to have to look at the real issues.

[latebloomingmom]

I hear a lot of excuses...
like:
I'm a too old
too out of shape
I tried______ for like two months once and it did not work
I dont have the time it takes to get into shape..
or my favorite...I am a mom

[kimm4]

Diet is the reason why.

Agreed and it's key to the whole process. You have women who haven't figured it out and making progress is a struggle. Then you have women who have it figured out, but don't make progress because they constantly stray from their plans.

2. Consistency (in both diet and training)

3. Not training hard enough (most will never understand the true definition)

4. Constantly making excuses about why they can't do it

[discdoggie]

iit would take a lot of depth to dissect further, but i've hunch that plenty goes into looking for a 'fix' (buffdom/fat loss etc.) that, upon closer inspection, doesn't fix the person at all. hence the 1st subtype in the above post.

there are a gazillion women here who fit that picture and, sadly, they will never find peace because they will keep searching for salvation in the wrong place so as not to have to look at the real issues.

I agree with this ^^^, but I figure if someone (me) is gonna be effed up in the head anyhow, may as well be strong and kinda muscle-ish. The inside's all wrong, but the shell is easier to fix! Plus, it's fun!

Agreed and it's key to the whole process. You have women who haven't figured it out and making progress is a struggle. Then you have women who have it figured out, but don't make progress because they constantly stray from their plans.

2. Consistency (in both diet and training)

3. Not training hard enough (most will never understand the true definition)

4. Constantly making excuses about why they can't do it

Yes. And people thinking they are "unique." Things that apply to everyone else on the planet, like the Law of Thermodynamics, don't apply to them.

[dreahere]

Right, but I'm sure you get my point. Now, there are some "numbers geeks" who get off on the technical stuff, but for the rest of us, it really doesn't need to be so complicated. As long as protein needs are being met everything else should be common sense. Want to gain? Eat more. Need to lose? Eat less. You really don't even NEED to track or weigh/measure. It helps put things in perspective, but lots of people have had success without it. And to those who get sucked in and get obsessive, all that stuff makes it worse, I think.

I've read some of these support threads. I think certain people may be more hurt from them than helped.

Oh, I agree completely. I said recently that I think buying a food scale is possibly the most disordered thing I've ever done. And many times when I am weighing something I'm gonna eat to the fukcing gram, I want to bitchslap myself I managed to lose weight quite successfully when I wasn't tracking my food every day and before I owned that damn food scale, but once you start doing it, it's hard to stop.

As proud as I am from my gains, this still bothers me. Being *tiny* was part of my identity. Losing that was like losing part of me.

I can relate to the identity thing, definitely. One of my goals was to look like I lift even when I'm not flexing and now that I do, sometimes I look in the mirror and feel like, "Wait. Whose body is that?" It's weird and disconcerting to, frex, see delts when I never had a visible delt in the whole preceding 48 years of my life and sometimes it doesn't feel like my body anymore.

[kimm4]

Yes. And people thinking they are "unique." Things that apply to everyone else on the planet, like the Law of Thermodynamics, don't apply to them.

Yeah playing the "unique" or "special" card...thinking you are different from everyone else.

The comment that drives me nuts..."You have to find what works best for you!" This is crap, because the basic guidelines work for everyone.

[toodlepip]

I agree with this ^^^, but I figure if someone (me) is gonna be effed up in the head anyhow, may as well be strong and kinda muscle-ish. The inside's all wrong, but the shell is easier to fix! Plus, it's fun!

Completely agree. I think my feckedupness manifests itself to a degree in the food/weight weirdness. In the past few years I have realised this and feel that I will continue to lift - because I love it - while I work on the other crap. I have to be really careful of tipping into what I call the dark side...obsessive self-defeating/destructive behaviour. It's a process.

There's the whole cals in, cals out, here's a good program etc. stuff...but I think for a lot of women self image/worth, weight issues, a compulsion over body etc. are all just surface and there's a s****storm that needs addressing - that is the real crux of the matter - boiling away underneath.

[stackums]

Good and very true thread!!

You're so right, Kim! Its not rocket science.

You just need a little determination and discipline, not have a fear of food and get ur arse into the gym and train...period!

[latebloomingmom]

issues of self-worth and self-image I agree with..we women carry a lot of this crud around with us.
also food phobia..
being unhappy with what they have to work with to begin with..unrealistic expectations maybe
also, dealing with what everyone else thinks of them...everyone else's opinions/expectations to try to live up to

[Amanda76]

I think lack of consistency is the number one thing that keeps people from reaching their goals. After that, I think it's a combination of nutrition mistakes and exercise mistakes but that can go so many ways...LOL And yes, the excuses! If you want something badly enough, you'll find a way to do it. It may not be the "perfect" way or the way you'd like to do it, but you'll truly do the best you can find ways to make it happen bit by bit.

I personally don't find "eating clean" to be at the top of my list when it comes to mistakes. I definitely make better progress (either way) when my heart is in focusing on the nutritional aspects of food over the "fun" of food. But it does get boring and if I start feeling that way, I personally just settle back into more of a "food for enjoyment" kinda phase without a problem. I think those who find "eating clean" to be a mistake are those who have an "all or nothing" attitude. That's really highly related to the person who can't stick with a lifting routine because they can't make time to accomplish one they wish they could follow (3x a week will get me nowhere if I want to go 5!). Instead of doing something (working that glass of wine that makes the day worthwhile into their meal plan or finding a workout plan that works with their schedule), they do nothing because if they can't reach their idea of "perfect" the effort isn't worth it.

[Rozlyn27]

I agree dramatic changes don't happen over night, but it also shouldn't take a lifetime to get the physique you want. If a trainee hasn't made SIGNIFIGANT gains in a year's time, something's off. Nutrition, maybe, but most likely training. Most people (women, anyway) simply don't push themselves hard enough in the gym. Hard enough to make gains. They think they do, but they don't.
.

w3rd

Victim of that, right here. I was at the gym today doing the leg press and on my 'heavy' set I was like, y'know, lets see how far I really can go with this bad boy. Did just as many as I do with my 'light' set. I wanted to kick myself. I can push myself WAY harder then I do, but unless I have someone telling me to go harder, I just don't. After today though, I definitely will be switching some weights around. There's no point in even going if I'm giving it 20%, ha.