James Mace - Battlezone Chest Crusade

**webmaster** · 01-30-2003, 02:09 PM

The easiest way to look at chest training is to break it down by upper, middle, and lower chest lifts. These are then broken down by press and fly movements. Learn why and the best exercises for them!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jmace13.htm

HOW TO REVIEW: Post Your Review Of This Article - CLICK ON POST REPLY BELOW! You do NOT need to be a registered member to post a reply in this section!

EricS · 01-31-2003, 09:06 PM

Inner chest?? I think one of those anatomy books might do you some good...

D&G · 02-01-2003, 01:35 PM

Ditto to what Eric said - there is no such thing as inner chest or middle or lower - the pectoralis major is one muscle - it either contracts as a whole or it doesn't there's no such thing as training the upper or inner part.

Quote:

All chest presses should be done with a moderate to heavy weight, 8 to 10 repetitions.

Why can we not do 6 reps or 12 reps? Can I not change my rep range from 8-10 then and why not?

Quote:

Sample Chest Workout

Chest Sets Reps Weight
Incline Dumbbell Press 3 8 to 10 75*
Dumbbell Bench Press 3 8 to 10 75*
Decline Machine Press 3 8 to 10 65*
Incline Dumbbell Flies 3 12 to 15 45*
Dumbbell Flies 3 12 to 15 40*
Decline Dumbbell Flies 3 12 to 15 35*

Sorry I thought this was a bodybuilding site - is that supposed to build muscle or annhilate it?

EricS · 02-01-2003, 04:24 PM

well there is a group of fibers that connect the the clavicle and are better stimulated with the shoulders are flexed to a slight degree. This can be dubbed the "upper" but you are right that it will contract all the same during the flat BB bench.

Ozzymt · 02-04-2003, 05:04 AM

that article is the biggest pile of **** i have read.

Anyone believing that you can isolate a part of the chest needs to go home and do their research.

As it stands, the chest is 1 muscle and contracts as one muscle. It has 2 main heads, the clavicular and the sternal. The reason you do different exercises is to target the chest from different angles. By doing this you will increase the number of muscle fibres you recruit in a workout, but you will not independantly target a specific part. The more muscle fibres you recruit, the greater the potential for growth.

An incline bench will recruit fibres from the whole pec, parallel dips will recruit from the whole chest also, but each will recruit a slightly different number as the ROM is different.

HOCKEYCHIC14 · 02-04-2003, 01:06 PM

Good Lord! Will people get a life?

This article seems to be targeting beginners, words like "inner chest" make more sense than using most Anatomy words that novices wouldnt know. If you are a professional, or advanced at body building-READ SOMETHING ELSE!

As for the person who wanted to know why they couldnt do more or less reps? I think you need to take an anger management course. There are other things in this world to get upset about than something as minor as that!

Give the guy a break! I dont see you writting anything!

D&G · 02-04-2003, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HOCKEYCHIC14

This article seems to be targeting beginners, words like "inner chest" make more sense than using most Anatomy words that novices wouldnt know. If you are a professional, or advanced at body building-READ SOMETHING ELSE!

Give the guy a break! I dont see you writting anything!

This is a REVIEW section - if someone is giving out incorrect information this is where its it gets called. People can say good and bad things here - should people congratulate him for giving bad advice? Whether your a beginner or not learning incorrect terms is not going to help you.

As for writting anything or even writing I've seen plenty of articles written by Ozzymt and EricS - perhaps you should know what your talking about before you post!

HOCKEYCHIC14 · 02-04-2003, 02:39 PM

This is a REVIEW section - if someone is giving out incorrect information this is where its it gets called.
I UNDERSTAND THIS, BUT PEOPLE DONT HAVE TO USE SWEAR WORDS AND PUT DOWN OTHERS EFFORTS FOR TRYING TO HELP OTHERS.
People can say good and bad things here - should people congratulate him for giving bad advice?
I NEVER CONGRATULATED ANYONE. I SIMPLY SAID THAT HIS ARTICLE WAS IN TERMS I COULD UNDERSTAND. I READ ALOT OF ARTICLES HERE, AND FRANKLY SOMETIMES THEY ARE HARD TO FIGURE OUT. NOT EVERYONE KNOWS THE NAMES OF EACH BROKEN DOWN MUSCLE GROUP, AND YOUR BODY BUILDING "SLANG". ALL I ASKED IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE "SENIOR" MEMBERS UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE OTHERS OUT THERE WHO ARE NOT. YOU WERE HERE ONCE TOO....PLEASE HAVE SOME CONSIDERATION FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE JUST BEGINNING THEIR STRUGGLE AND LOOK TO THOSE WHO ARE NOT AT YOUR LEVEL OF FITNESS YET.
Whether your a beginner or not learning incorrect terms is not going to help you.
THAT IS FINE, BUT I UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE MEANT. IF YOU WERE TO USE THE ANATOMY TERM, I WOULDNT HAVE HAD A CLUE.
BY THE LOOKS OF THIS GUY, HE IS NOT AT A PROFESSIONAL LEVEL. SO ITS NICE TO HEAR FROM THE OTHER SIDE, THEN THE ARNOLD LOOK A LIKES.
As for writting anything or even writing I've seen plenty of articles written by Ozzymt and EricS - perhaps you should know what your talking about before you post! IF THIS IS TRUE,
PLEASE SEND ME THE LINKS TO THEIR ARTICLES THAT SPECIFICALLY TARGET BEGINNERS.

D&G · 02-04-2003, 02:54 PM

And the capital letters were necessary because?

Calm down ok - people are pointing out some glaring errors in this article. I don't believe I was using anatomy terms. Surely your better off knowing that this article contained bogus information instead of getting there terms into your head and finding out you were wrong later down the line. There are plenty of articles for beginners you just have to look for them.

HOCKEYCHIC14 · 02-04-2003, 03:18 PM

The caps were just to seperate your statements from mine. Not for yelling purposes........

This is whats uncalled for:"that article is the biggest pile of **** i have read."
There is no need for this. If this is to tell people they are wrong, you could use a little tact and consideration. Again, this person is not a pro, and is only giving advice to those who are starting out.

Statements like this:"As it stands, the chest is 1 muscle and contracts as one muscle. It has 2 main heads, the clavicular and the sternal. The reason you do different exercises is to target the chest from different angles. By doing this you will increase the number of muscle fibres you recruit in a workout, but you will not independantly target a specific part." HUH????

What is a Sternal and the clavicular? If you say, upper middle and lower areas, that just makes more sense. Maybe instead of criticism, you could have offered some better advice. Putting down people for trying is simply wrong. No wonder people fail, its those of you who speak like this that guide us no where.

Also, this Ozzy person needs to take a spelling class. The words "fibres" (mispelled twice) is actually spelled fibers along with the word "independantly", which also incorrectly spelled. The proper form is "independently". If you are going to bad mouth, and then give advice, at least appear that you, yourself dont look like an idiot!

EricS1 · 02-04-2003, 07:53 PM

The sternum is the "breast plate" that runs down the middle of your chest. It is where the majority of the ribs meet to form the rib cage. it doesn't have an upper or lower region.

The clavicle is better known as the collar bone.

The reason we feel it nesecary to use terms like this rather than upper/lower/mid is to eliminate such falicies. the most common mistake in beginners is overtrainin by trying to work each individual little fiber that runs through their body.

Being informed that there is no possible way to single out the inner from the outter or the middle from the lower is simple the truth that will save many begginers time energy and produce resutls with out frustration that many of us have already gone through.

Trust me it is easier to learn things early, then having to UN-learn everything only to learn it over again.

On a side note, why was I banned? I didn't do anything wrong.

~jAmeZ~ · 02-04-2003, 08:05 PM

Good point. Why DID Eric get banned???

D&G · 02-05-2003, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HOCKEYCHIC14

Also, this Ozzy person needs to take a spelling class. The words "fibres" (mispelled twice) is actually spelled fibers along with the word "independantly", which also incorrectly spelled. The proper form is "independently". If you are going to bad mouth, and then give advice, at least appear that you, yourself dont look like an idiot!

Actually you are wrong smartie! - its spelt fibres, Ozzymt is English and that is the correct spelling as found in the English Dictionary - If you are going to bad mouth someones spelling learn proper English first.

I'll give you the other one though!

EricS -

go to the misc section there is a an sticky topic explaining the speight of bannings - you did nothing wrong and will get your old name back.

Ozzymt · 02-05-2003, 05:50 AM

Hockeychic, admittedly my initial statement was fairly crued, but, if you are going to place an article on a site such as this then you have to be prepared to get slapped down if you are wrong. This site is visited by millions of people i expect so teaching incorrect terminology and practise is going to set people in the wrong direction from the very start.

As for my spelling, i think that it is the least of my worries, especially when you, yourself are incorrectly spelling English.

As for the paragraph i put above about the chest, the terms i used are extremely easy to find on a decent search engine like google. There is absolutely no reason why someone wishing to learn correctly can't go and use a search engine to discover the meaning of a phrase/word/sentence. How do you think i learnt?

If you would like to read some articles and pieces that i have written then you are more than welcome to them. You can e-mail me if you so desire, or log on www.muscletalk.co.uk where i moderate.

Ozzy

HOCKEYCHIC14 · 02-05-2003, 08:59 AM

Eric,
First of all, I dont know why you were banned. It is true that I did not see anything wrong with you have said. It should have been Ozzy for using swear words instead of being an adult, and using tact.
Second, I find it interesting that you said this to me:
"Actually you are wrong smartie! - its spelt fibres", when you, yourself said this :"the most common mistake in beginners is overtrainin by trying to work each individual little fiber that runs through their body."
HMMMM...interesting isnt it? I find it funny that you can name call, then contradict yourself by telling me Im wrong, then spell it fiber in your response back to me.

I do appreciate the clarity on the terminology though-and thank you for showing some respect.

Ozzy,

"admittedly my initial statement was fairly crued, but, if you are going to place an article on a site such as this then you have to be prepared to get slapped down if you are wrong. "
Think about what you just said here. No one needs to "slap" anyone down. You could have been mature, like Eric, and state in a tactful way that he was wrong, and correct with a more appropriate answer. Phrases like this: "that article is the biggest pile of **** i have read" simply show that you lack respect and cant be taken seriously. Id much rather read what Eric has to say, then listen to someone who can treat people like this. Grow up, and come back when you can act like an adult.

"There is absolutely no reason why someone wishing to learn correctly can't go and use a search engine to discover the meaning of a phrase/word/sentence. "
Who wants to read an article and then hunt down words in a dictionary to try to make some sense into it? If you cant communicate effectively, and people cant understand what you are saying, they will simply quit reading what you write.

Lastly,
"As for my spelling, i think that it is the least of my worries, especially when you, yourself are incorrectly spelling English."
Hmm, seems to me that I was never the one trying to critique someone elses article. Simply, you are right, spelling should be the last of your worries.
You have other PERSONAL issues to work through. Maybe you should learn a few things from Eric.

D&G · 02-05-2003, 09:11 AM

You seem to have become confused and attributed part of my post regarding fibres to EricS.

To differentiate between your words and those of other I recommend you use the quote tags -

[ quote ] at the start and [ /quote ] at the end but do not put in the spaces as I have.

HIT is best · 02-05-2003, 09:21 AM

Oh dear, another one of the kind of articles which contains nothing but horse **** - is there a trend amoungst writers here at bodybuilding.com?

No mention was given to the fact that "just" bench presses OR dips - no flies, crossovers or whatever else - is all thats needed to build your chest to it's fullest possible muscular potential. This is, of course, provided that your programme includes either squats or deadlifts, or both and you are really working hard on them.

Ozzymt · 02-05-2003, 09:33 AM

It has become clear to me that im not the one who is trying to insight an arguement on this thread.

Firstly, i think you should go back and read the post more thoroughly as it was D&G that pointed out that my spelling of "Fibres" is correct, not eric!!!!!

As for me growing up, i think i am well with in my right here to say go **** yourself. You are trying to insight this, not me. I admitted my initial statement was a bit crued. Men can have bad days as well you know. If you spent as much time on the boards as i do trying to help people then it becomes highly frustrating at times when you have to continually repeat what you say. To then see an article published on an internationally reknowned site which, lets face, its totally incorrect, then it deserves pointing out. And before you go off on a tagent about my approach, i have already said, and am pointing it out again, it was crued!!!

As for researching parts of an article. You can't tell me that you went through school and read every piece of work, every text book or even every story book and fully understood everything that was written. Research is part of learning, if you don't know what something means and you want to learn then i think you have to go and look it up yourself. You are obviously just lazy and want everything placed on a plate infront of you ready for your consumption without a word of thanks or even the thought of trying to do something yourself.

No, you didn't critique the article because it is beyond your scope of knowledge, that is obvious. But you were quick enough to jump down my throat at what i said. I find this very hypocritical.

I have wasted enough time answering your pathetically childish replies. Goodbye.

HOCKEYCHIC14 · 02-05-2003, 09:54 AM

(Firstly, i think you should go back and read the post more thoroughly as it was D&G that pointed out that my spelling of "Fibres" is correct, not eric!!!!! )
Ok, that statement had Erics name right after it, therefore, implied he wrote it. Instead, D and G was trying to lead Eric to another statement. I suppose you are the only one who is allowed to have bad days?
My first initial response to all of this is to point out beginners need to be talked to with ease, not rash. You say you want to help people? Ha! You say things like:
(go **** yourself,. You are obviously just lazy, prepared to get slapped down, that article is the biggest pile of **** i have read.it is beyond your scope of knowledge, that is obvious- Ozzymt)
WHO WANTS TO TAKE ADVICE FROM YOU? YOU ARE A JOKE TO THIS PROFESSION. IF YOU THINK YOU ARE HELPING PEOPLE, YOU ARE NOT. TALKING LIKE THIS TO PEOPLE? WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? CLEARLY, YOU SHOULD BE BANNED FOR HELPING ANYONE. YOUR TRUE COLORS HAVE SHINED THROUGH.
IM SURE BB.COM WILL CLEARLY SEE THAT THEY WERE WRONG FOR BANNING ERIC, IT IS YOU THAT NEEDS TO BE "SLAPPED DOWN" A FEW PEGS.

Ozzymt · 02-05-2003, 10:06 AM

couple of things

1. if bb.com wants to ban that is fine, i am appreciated on many boards across the net and moderate on a few also so my knowledge and respect for this profession goes way beyond yours. What knowledge have you brought to this post other than your apparent spelling knowledge?

2. You are a very fiesty girl, its a shame we didn't meet on better terms cos i reckon you would be a great shag, suppose there is no chance of that now, only i thing is i would have to gag you as your mouth would soon piss me off.

To BB.com - My apologies for letting this run on as it has. My intention was not to disrupt the board, but i feel im intitled to defend myself. Feel free to banme if you wish.

D&G

HOCKEYCHIC14 · 02-05-2003, 10:29 AM

(What knowledge have you brought to this post other than your apparent spelling knowledge?) OZZY, OZZY, OZZY....IVE NEVER CLAIMED TO BRING ANYTHING INTO THIS. I KNOW HOCKEY, NOT BODY BUILDING. THAT IS WHY I AM READING ALL THESE ARTICLES-I WENT TO YOUR WEBSITE, AND I WILL READ WHAT I THINK MAY APPLY TO ME. PROBABLY NOT YOURS, BUT IT SEEMS THERE ARE OTHERS WHO WRITE THERE.

(2. You are a very fiesty girl, its a shame we didn't meet on better terms cos i reckon you would be a great shag, suppose there is no chance of that now, only i thing is i would have to gag you as your mouth would soon piss me off.)
YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY HAVE CLASS AND TASTE, THEREFORE MEN LIKE YOU WOULD NEVER HAVE A CHANCE IN HELL WITH SOMEONE LIKE MYSELF. KEEP DREAMING BABY.

(To BB.com - My apologies for letting this run on as it has. My intention was not to disrupt the board, but i feel im intitled to defend myself. Feel free to banme if you wish. )
IM SURE AFTER READING YOUR "BLAH BLAH BLAH" BB.COM WILL DO THE RIGHT THING.

SORRY ERIC AND D AND G FOR THE MIX UP.

**admin** · 02-05-2003, 11:46 AM

Woah... please calm down and stop calling each other names or this thread will be deleted. Discuss the ISSUE at hand and that is all. Everybody has their opinion, otherwise we would we not need a web site or message board!

Thanks,
Ryan DeLuca
Bodybuilding.com

Langers · 02-06-2003, 03:39 AM

Ozzy is correct the article was sh*t. It is probably recieved well by an ametuer because it seems to be written by an ametuer.

He doesnt seem to know how the body is constructed and the routine he gives is grossly over-training.

It is not a good article. People should respect an article because it teaches them things not because it re-enforces their own in-correct views.

I know both Ozzy and D&G and can assure you they know what they are on about. I you read EricS's articles you will also come to realise he knows his stuff too.

If there are any spelling mistakes in my post then it is because I type fast not because I'm illiterate.

02-13-2003, 01:57 PM

I have just two questions:-

1. Is EricS Eric Satterwhite(not sure abt the spelling though).If he is then let me just say that I am a big fan Of his.

2.Ok so the chest is one muscle, but can anyone tell me how to emphasize the inner chest as my outer chest seems to have outgrown my inner chest.I apologize if I am making a big anatomy blunder.

EricS · 02-13-2003, 02:32 PM

Yes, that is me and your spelling is fine

2. Unfortunaly there is no way to actually emphasize the inner chest like you can the "upper" or sterno-clavicular part of the pec major.

You have to think of a muscle like a bunch of rubber bands that all run in 1 direction paralle to eachother. All of them are connected to a single point at each end.

Now within that bundle, you can choose(to a very small degree) to place a greater stretch or contraction on a group of the rubber bands. Such as our upper and lower example. However, you can't choose to contract an area with in the bands themselves.

So if you had a rubber band stretched between your thumb and forefinger, it would be like tring to stretch ONLY the part closest to your thumb. It ain't gonna happen. But if you have 100 rubber bands on randomly placed on your fingers that all run to the end of your thumb, you can move 1 finger and stretch some ofthe bands more than others, but they all will move.

This is a simplistc way of looking at muscle contraction. So yes you can technically can stress a particular head ofthe biceps, but their is no lower/upper.

And quite honestly, I think tring to single out areas of a muscle group, just makes life harder.

Just a tid bit, many times, taller people have this "inner" chest problem Mainly becausetheir arms are longer and the attatchement point of the pecs is out a bit furthur. Not much you can do, just focus on making the WHOLE chest bigger.

----Edits---
Sorry, I can type fast, but my spelling sucks!

Langers · 02-14-2003, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EricS
Sorry, I can type fast, but my spelling sucks!

I can relate to that

Langers · 02-14-2003, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EricS
2. Unfortunaly there is no way to actually emphasize the inner chest like you can the "upper" or sterno-clavicular part of the pec major.

I was under the impression that even this wasn't possible.

I know that doing incline benching will concentrate on the Clavicular Head of the Pectoralis Major. But I thought that this simply made the whole pec grow rather than just the "upper" part. I believe Ozzy also holds this view.

I would really like to get a definitive answer on this.

D&G · 02-14-2003, 03:27 AM

He said emphasize - i.e more fibre recruitment in that area - you will still be working the entire chest.

Quote:

Ok so the chest is one muscle, but can anyone tell me how to emphasize the inner chest as my outer chest seems to have outgrown my inner chest.I apologize if I am making a big anatomy blunder

I have the same problem - nothing you can do but get to work on increasing overall mass.

02-14-2003, 11:17 AM

Thank you Eric and D&G for your responce, and yes Eric I am tall around 6'1".

Ozzymt · 02-18-2003, 06:06 AM

Eric is spot on. Nice example to use as well there, i will note that down for future reference.

Like eric mentioned, the inner, outer, upper, lower, blah blah chest doesn't exist per se. Althought the pec consists of 2 major heads, there is no way to isolate one entirely. Altering the angle from which an exercise is performed can change the level of fibre recruitment in a certain muscle head, but you will still have to contract the entire chest to perform an exercise.

If you want a big chest then do parallel dips. Get a full ROM and perfect form and your chest will grow like never before.