Ron Kosloff - Bodybuilder Or Weightlifter (You Can't Be Both) - Part I.

[webmaster]

A bodybuilder sculpts to have every muscle stand out and a weightlifter endeavors to have a large ego as well as large muscles. Which category do you want to fit into? Also: Are you doing the Bench Press wrong?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kosloff8.htm

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With all due respect, this article showed an astronomical amount of ignorance for anatomy, physiology, and kinesiology. I've seen many articles that didn't deserve to see print, but this one takes the cake. Equating all strength athletes to over fat, over bloated stereotypes from the 80's is bad enough, but then going on to say that the only reason to lift heavy is ego? Obviously the author isn't very strong and has a beef about it. Why's it okay to be concerned with how you look but not how you perform? I'd say bodybuilding involves ego as much (if not more) than strength sports.

What if I play a sport? Or I'm interested in actually being in shape, as opposed to just looking like it? Well, obviously that's my ego and I'm going to get injured. There are many reasons to work out, and checking yourself out in the mirror is only one of them. And i say that as a bodybuilder, trainer, and coach- albeit one with a DEGREE and actual under-the-bar experience.

Get a life, sir, or better yet- get an education. I expect this kind of crap from the magazine rack, but not bodybuilding.com.

[ravadongon]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

With all due respect, this article showed an astronomical amount of ignorance for anatomy, physiology, and kinesiology. I've seen many articles that didn't deserve to see print, but this one takes the cake. Equating all strength athletes to over fat, over bloated stereotypes from the 80's is bad enough, but then going on to say that the only reason to lift heavy is ego? Obviously the author isn't very strong and has a beef about it. Why's it okay to be concerned with how you look but not how you perform? I'd say bodybuilding involves ego as much (if not more) than strength sports.

What if I play a sport? Or I'm interested in actually being in shape, as opposed to just looking like it? Well, obviously that's my ego and I'm going to get injured. There are many reasons to work out, and checking yourself out in the mirror is only one of them. And i say that as a bodybuilder, trainer, and coach- albeit one with a DEGREE and actual under-the-bar experience.

Get a life, sir, or better yet- get an education. I expect this kind of crap from the magazine rack, but not bodybuilding.com.

Agree with you completely, this article is an absolute shocker...

[Fenris]

This is the stupidest, most biased, and most carlessly written article that I have ever read on here.

Okay, so I'm supposed to avoid the ANABOLIC benifits of heavy lifting? The improved CNS adaptations? The increased muscle growth and fat loss? Pushing myself to excel at something? Increasing speed, strength, and performance? All in the pursuit of wearing some pink g-string?

Oh, and my joints actually bother me LESS now that I train the Big 3 properly.

Let's question a few of the author's assertions here:

<<<Quote: You should never put your thumb around the bar. When you do, in any exercise, you will bring your forearm into play. For instance, if you're working your biceps, half of the exercise will be forearm and the other half biceps. That's why people say to me, "Every time I do curls, I feel it in my forearm.">>>

You must have incredibly weak forearms. I NEVER feel my forearms working in any of those movements. Why don't you do some grip work for a couple of weeks? Oh, yeah. I forgot. You don't want a complete, functional, aesthetic and well rounded physique.

Also, if you're trying to isolate the chest, you should NEVER bench, you idiot! It's impossible to take the delts and triceps out of the bench. Just do several flye variations- that's the only way to isolate your chest (although that's a misnomer- you can never truly isolate your chest- every chest movement usues your shoulders as initiators and your lats as the "braking" mechanism).

<<<Quote: Of course, if you do want to be a weightlifter, you have to realize that sooner or later you are going to injure every joint, muscle, ligament, and tendon in your body. All for the sake of saying, "I'm a power lifter and I can lift 400 pounds." It's not going to get you anything except a lot of pain and it will only get worse as you age.

With most power lifters, diet is thrown to the wind because they eat anything and everything. Technically, the more you weigh the more you can lift. You will have to ask yourself if that's how you want to look or do you want to look like a bodybuilder. This is the ultimate decision that you're going to have to make.>>>

Powerlifters have weight classes, moron. Only the super heavy weights look like that. All the other classes maximize the amount of muscle (which is fucntional) that they have within their class- which means eating well and keeping fat relatively low.

And, again, bodybuilding style bench press has caused more shoulder injuries than any other exercise I've ever seen in my clients. That stupid "feet on the bench" style that you show is HORRIBLE for the shoulder girdle.

<<<Quote:Most people who lift weights have some sort of an inadequacy complex. I won't say inferiority complex but they feel inadequate and their self-esteem is low.>>>

I minored in psychology, and I feel confident enough in that field to say that YOU have an inferiority complex. Here are the possible reasons you have a hate on for lifting heavy:

A) It makes you feel inadequate as you feel that you could never reach those heights of strength, therefore you ridicule and insult it.

B) You are threatened by people who work out differently than you do. Instead of understanding and accepting that there are numerous different ways to work out and just as many different reasons (one of the primary being to get stronger/increase performance) you can only accept that your way is the best way.

I like bodybuilding. I have no problem with it. I respect and admire the dedication it takes. But if you think that bodybuilding isn't just as much an ego sport as powerlifting (if not more so), then you're delsuional.

This article makes me want to stay on T-nation and never come back here. Do they just print anything by any uneducated tool on here anymore? Oh, and we can expect a Part 2? Jesus Christ! Do they not have editors here?

[Fenris]

Oh, and the term "weightlifting" actually means Olympic lifiting, while powerlifting is just that. But I suppose that you're in much better shape than these Olympic athletes, too, so I don't suppose it matters.

[I_Like_Lifting]

I have two words for him: Ronnie Coleman.

This aritcle made me laugh and ask myself who really has the the inferiority complex.

[Mr_Thing30]

I have been a member of this site for awhile, when I clicked open this link given the fact I think many of us split the line between bodybuilder & weightlifter.
Using a good amount of weight to get our bodies stronger & bigger. There is even a line between those of us who preach & always good good if not close to prefect form & those who cheat a little. To lump everyone who wants to make it to 300pds bench club. or add inches to thier chest, arms or any other body part as in search of self boosting of our own ego's. That is simply untrue.
I have come away with the impression that this preson for all his background. Has missed the very point of this form of exercise its a passion to improve. Would you want to only run 5 miles a week if you knew you could get to 10 a week? Would you not want to improve yourself. I also find that his point of view about pro-sports just a shot left of center. I don't care to actully bash someone but as I re-read his work I can only hope this is not a sign that BB.com can share such a narrow minded view.

A note for BB.com I find this narrow view a shame of a other wise great website.

Horrible, Horrible Article. Not to mention you risk the bar rolling off your hands with that palm grim during the bench press.

Well, since we don't want to work our forearms too much, lets make sure we don't grab the barbell with our hands if we're about to do a deadlift. Better to just tie it to our wrists and lift it that way. Don't want to use too many muscles.

[Stonecoldtruth]

Can we put this guy on a list of people who should NOT be published on bodybuilding.com? I'm seriously wondering how this got published

i myself am a powerlifter and have been reading articles posted on bodybuildig for many years as i have always loved the sport of weight lifting. i was annoyed to read that the sport of weightlifting and powerlifting was being shunned in such a way. firstly, powerlifting does not involve any cheating exercises, the squat, deadlift and bench press are in no way cheating exercises.. and although he does go on the say that these are compound muscle group exercises, am i not right in saying that performing maximal lifts with compound movements will greatly improve the hormone levels and the anabolic rate of growth in the body, surely being a bodybuilder he should know this, and unlike ego fascinated individuals such as himself, who admited lifting weight he was not capable of, i have never suffered any injuries due to the fact that i train PROPERLY, i do not lift my ego, i am not on steroids and never will be, and it has been proven that heavy lifting will actually improve tendon and ligament strength, and bone density by almost triple in some athletes. i have won several differnt competitions and am currently the record holder of 15 differnet british records in powerlifting, the british powerlifting title for the juniours 67.5 kg weight catagory, i do not have a huge 'rear end' my thighs are not out of proportion to the rest of my body, and my physique would rival that of some body builders, i was disappointed to read an article such as this, and i am sure i speak for many differnet individuals that an appology from the writer would not be out of line for slandering a sport which he knows nothing about and has so plainly not researched. Lastly, giving advice such as the vince neck press and sissy squats are a sure fire way or causing shoulder rotator cuff injuries left right and centre, young bodybuilders are goin to read this and assume that because his article was printed that it must be right, there is a reason the bench press is brought to the pectoral line, as to not put stress on the rotator cuff, and destroy it, that is what this will surely do!!! and sissy squats!!i think they speak for themselves, i am a personal trainer, powerlifter and general sports enthusiast, if i ever saw an individual perfroming this exercise in the gym, i would shoot them, they can only expect certain knee problems in later years.. if the author would like to write something in his defence or if any individuals have anything they would like to add about my comments you can e-mail me at jlaffey@hotmail.com, or broken_design@hotmail.com.. either web e-mail address will do. i pray that articles such as this will not be printed again. thank you for your time.
Jonathan

Next time just start out the article: "I'm a huge pussy, and I'm going to tell you why."

[Charged]

Yer because mariuz pudzianowski looks utter ****(sarcasm) and hes the worlds stongest man, the guy who wrote this article is a ****ing retard, putting feet in air on bench is a great way to topple. This guy needs to seriously study, also whats that bull **** about ur ass muscles never go down, ROFL? Overall ****test thing i ever read, i can write better then this.

this article sucks. who are you to call it cheating when you use all your muscles to ge the weight up? all that matters is you get the weight up without needing a spot right? RIGHT. Later.

Sure, this article makes a lot of sense. After all, the current Mr. Olympia, Ronnie Coleman, NEVER lifts heavy and never squats, deadlifts, or benches. Oh wait a minute..... that's right.......he is the strongest bodybuilder on the planet. I guess it must be just a coincidence that the strongest bodybuilder is also the biggest and the best. Yes, Ronnie is juicing his face off, but so is everyone else in the IFBB. As far as the squat not being an effective exercise. WTF! Think about the guys with the best wheels and how they built them. Tom Platz.....squatted! Ronnie.....Squats. Branch Warren....squats. I'd love to see a bodybuilder with freaky legs who built them doing sissy squats.

The author is a clown. If there is one thing I hate worse than an idiot it is an idiot who thinks he knows all but actually knows NOTHING. The author should stop writing, quit bodybuilding, and pop in Richard Simmons' "Sweating to the Oldies." There is a pair of leg warmers with your name written all over them.

[Evolution33]

The guy that wrote this article seemed to have an elitist attitude. He thinks his way is the only way and those that do not subscribe to it are ego driven meatheads. When I first saw the title I thought it was going to explain the merits of lifting for strength as well as the merits of lifting for aesthtics. It is part one in a 3 part series so maybe this was the first viewpoint, and the editor told him to be super critical. I guess we will have to wait and see. I found the tone of the article to be insulting, arrogant, and indignant.

Terrible article. Please, never allow him to write for your website again.

OMG!
This were some terrible ****!

I am glad that I am not alone in finding this article to be horrible. Gee, I guess I have been "cheating" all these years by wrapping my thumb around when bench pressing because I didn't want to risk serious injury... And according to the article, all my bench pressing has been for nothing, because as he says "you're using roughly six muscles to so-call lift the weight, never really developing any muscle, never shaping or sculpting it." I guess my pecs just "materialized" out of thin air then. Of course you don't want to OVER-rely only on barbell bench press while neglecting dumbell presses, flys, and such (everyone knows this), but give me a break. All of this guy's articles are pretty bad.

[One Man Army]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am glad that I am not alone in finding this article to be horrible. Gee, I guess I have been "cheating" all these years by wrapping my thumb around when bench pressing because I didn't want to risk serious injury... And according to the article, all my bench pressing has been for nothing, because as he says "you're using roughly six muscles to so-call lift the weight, never really developing any muscle, never shaping or sculpting it." I guess my pecs just "materialized" out of thin air then. Of course you don't want to OVER-rely only on barbell bench press while neglecting dumbell presses, flys, and such (everyone knows this), but give me a break. All of this guy's articles are pretty bad.

arent you the guy who had a whole thread written about you and your strange non existent username????

[One Man Army]

yeah a false grip on bench can be dangerous.......I nearly(and I mean really close, I mean I could fell the bar slippin out of my hands) dropped a bar on my face using a false grip by bench pressing...luckily I racked it uber fast and in time

[dbcb314]

Articles like this cause a lot of people to think bb.com is a joke. How could y'all even allow something like this to be called an article is ridiculous. And these weren't even his own ideas either, they were his "mentors."

[Newbtime]

I think this is possibly the biggest load of bull**** I have ever read.

I don't even think I can put into words how ignorant and skewed the author's "opinions" are, It is pathetic.

[Minotaur]

When I first read this article I thought the guy was writing a humorous and sarcastic piece. I couldn't believe that this was a serious article on weight training. But apparently from all the reviews I've been seeing, this guy is for real in his beliefs and comments.

I have to agree with virtually everyone else and say that the information the author is dispensing is some of the most ridiculous and dangerous nonsense I've ever seen.

It's right there in the second quote in my sig...

[ArchDukeOfTops]

Out of all the things on the internet, BB magazines, and stupid **** I've heard said in the gym, this easlily ranks up there. The worst part about it is the guy seems to think he has some clue about training. What an asshat.

This article needs to be deleted, for fear that some beginner may read it and think there's one shred of good info in it.

I love BB.com, but there needs to be some method to keep utter tripe like this from being published under the guise of good info.



Oh. . . . . and since he based his training philosophy on looking at 'weightlifters' in the shower at the YMCA, I feel its necessary to point out that not much training knowledge can be gained by lurking in the locker room like a PRE-vert.

[Slump]

Wow, just wow. That article was inspiring and informative. No, no it wasn't. It was silly and a waste of space. I remember back when bb.com used to have quality articles... man, I miss those days.

[Diesel13]

Never let this man write an article again.

[bdp]

A competative bodybuilder in my gym never benched. He said it was a waist of his time. He looked like he could bench about 600 lbs. though! He placed 6th in USA competition in '84. Keep in mind during that time everyone was juicing, so whatever workout you chose you got huge really quick. Personally I don't bench anymore....way too much stress on my shoulders.

[Newbtime]

Originally Posted by bdp

. He looked like he could bench about 600 lbs.

Originally Posted by article

A bodybuilder sculpts to have every muscle stand out and a weightlifter endeavours to have a large ego as well as large muscles.

Uh huh....so, the guy who actually wants his muscles to have some sort of functionality beyond just looking pretty is the one with the ego? LOL! Get real....there aren't very many sports that are more vain and ego-driven than bodybuilding. So, this guy trying to denigrate strength athletes in this way is certainly the pot calling the kettle black. Unbelievable.

ignorant and stupid article...doesn't bb.com edit its articles? This guy is completly retarded and gives dangerous advice.