Protein absorbtion: when is it a waste?

Kill Shot · 07-25-2002, 01:40 PM

I'm on a Keto diet now. I'm supplementing most of my protein intake with whey protein shakes. I usually have 5 shakes throughout the day at 44 grams of protein per shake. Here is my question:
If I miss a shake during the day, can I double the amount of protein in the shake or drink 2 shakes back-to-back? Is there a limit as to the amount of protein your body will utilize in one eating session? If so, are the unused portions wasted?

KawiNinja · 07-25-2002, 02:31 PM

Whey is ALWAYS a waste, unless it's after a workout.
Use casein or other REAL foods as protein intake.

Whey is all a marketing hype, why can't people see this?

Kill Shot · 07-25-2002, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KawiNinja
Whey is ALWAYS a waste, unless it's after a workout.
Use casein or other REAL foods as protein intake.

Whey is all a marketing hype, why can't people see this?

Why is it a waste when not used other than post-workout? Please explain.

Awais · 07-25-2002, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KawiNinja
Whey is ALWAYS a waste, unless it's after a workout.
Use casein or other REAL foods as protein intake.

Whey is all a marketing hype, why can't people see this?

first person with correct info on whey

Kill Shot · 07-25-2002, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Awais

first person with correct info on whey

That's all well and fine, but no one has explained why...

Tim · 07-25-2002, 05:14 PM

Becuase whey is so fast absorbing. Especially when taken without carbs or fats, it is quickly absobed and most of it is used as energy instead of being used to build or support muscle. I suppose you could make it more useful if you have some fat with it (like mixing in oil) to slow the absorbtion somewhat. Also excess protein can be converted to glycogen, which is not desirable on a keto diet for obvious reasons. I've even heard that whey by itself can cause insulin spikes in some people. Whey is not the best thing to supplement with on a keto diet.

Kill Shot · 07-25-2002, 05:45 PM

Good information! Thanks a lot, Tim!

Kill Shot · 07-25-2002, 05:46 PM

Oh, well, what kind of protein powder would you reccommend for a keto diet then??

KawiNinja · 07-25-2002, 08:45 PM

Thanks for backing me up guys.

On ANY sort of diet, you should get your protein from lean sources. Chicken, egg whites, cottage cheese (great before bed), lean beef, fish, etc...

Leave whey for post workout only, and spend your cash on food that's not a liquid. ;-)

**fitnessman** · 07-26-2002, 05:18 AM

I have better things to do than edit posts.

PLAY NICE!!

Tim · 07-26-2002, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kill Shot
Oh, well, what kind of protein powder would you reccommend for a keto diet then??

If you need to supplement with powder on a keto diet use a slower-absorbing protein blend such as casein/whey/egg. When I was on a keto diet, I would sometimes have a 70% casein/ 30% whey mix before bed, along with some nuts.

Chi_town · 07-26-2002, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fitnessman
I have better things to do than edit posts.

PLAY NICE!!

Hey bro, what's your feelings on whey ?

I know you would rather eat then supp protein. But is whey as bad as these guys think it is ? Some days I supp like 100-150 grams of protein from whey, though not that much when on keto.
How about whey and flax oil ?
OR whey and cheese? - LOL

Fitnessman, if you have the time.........

PEACE

**fitnessman** · 07-26-2002, 06:28 AM

I really feel protein powders overall are a complete waste.

I only use whey(which is a waste product that is used to slop hogs) post workout only. Matter of fact I get whey from a dairy farmer down the street for free.

I know as well as everyone life gets in the way of our diets. But I cant remember the last time I used a shake in place of a meal.

Some studies indicate that whey can cause a mild insulin response even mixed with water only, which would be bad for a keto.

Kill Shot · 07-26-2002, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fitnessman
I have better things to do than edit posts.

PLAY NICE!!

sorry fitnessman, i was way out of line. i've got a short fuse since keto induction the past few days.

Kill Shot · 07-26-2002, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fitnessman
I really feel protein powders overall are a complete waste.

Why do you say that? I mean, if they do at least 75% of what they're supposed to do, it's worth it to me.

I just don't have time to be eating solid foods for all my protein needs.

**fitnessman** · 07-26-2002, 11:11 AM

The human body was made eat food, not drink it. When dieting down, you will feel much better by eating food than from drinking a shake.

Food takes longer to process, leaving you fuller longer. Protein drinks absorb fairly quick, cause a mild insulin response, making you hungry quicker.

I am not anti protein drinks. They have a place. If I have no other option, I will them as a meal replacement, but only as a last resort.

It does take more effort. Preplaning meals is a must. I simply take my lunch cooler to work with 3-4 meals in it.

If on ketogenic diet, other than post training, do your best to eat real food! You will better in the long run!!

EricS · 07-26-2002, 06:00 PM

Protein supplements are ment to supplement whole food intake. They will not be wasted if there is glucose and insulin in the blood. As a uppleemnt it should never be used as a replacement.

as someon above stated its very effective when taken with carbs and fat. So you should take it during the latte part and just after one of your small meals, but not inbetween. Just because it is absorbed fast doesn't mean that it is wasted....I feel another article comming on.

EricS · 07-26-2002, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KawiNinja

Whey is all a marketing hype, why can't people see this?

Probably because its not true. Their is literally stacks of reasearch to say otherwise. The reason Whey, or any protein for that matter would ever be wasted is if it were eaten alone in the abscence of insulin and glucose. When blood sugar levels are low, the first thing you put in your body is used to restore glucose and glycogen levels, Even if its after a work out! You want to make your protein supplements effective, use them in the way the name impies..as a supplement to meals. Drink a whey protein shake near the end or right after a small meal when insulin levels are high and there is enough glucose to go around.

Its not marketing Hype, its basic physiology and sound research.

Pollain MG, et al. Effect of whey proteins, their oligopeptide hydrolysates and free amino acid mixtures on growth and nitrogen retention in fed and staved rats. JPEN. 1989:vol13#4:382-386.

Wagenmakers AJ, Muscle amino acid metabolism at rest and during exercise: Role in human physiology and metabolism. Exercise & sport Secience Rev. 1998;26:287-314

William J. Kraemer, et. at. Hormonal responses to consecutive days of heavy-resistance exercise with or without nutritional supplementation J Appl Physiol 1998 85: 1544-1555.

RB Kreider, et al. Effects of ingesting supplements designed to promote lean tissue accretion. Int. J.Sport Nutrition 6.3, 1996:234-236.

P.J. Cribb, A.D. Williams, A. Hayes, M.F. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise Volume 34 - Number 5 - May 2002

Lands LC, Grey VL and Smountas AA.1999 Effect of a cysteine donor on muscular performance.J Appl Physiol. 87 (4):1381-1385.

Kill Shot · 07-26-2002, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EricS

Probably because its not true. Their is literally stacks of reasearch to say otherwise. The reason Whey, or any protein for that matter would ever be wasted is if it were eaten alone in the abscence of insulin and glucose. When blood sugar levels are low, the first thing you put in your body is used to restore glucose and glycogen levels, Even if its after a work out! You want to make your protein supplements effective, use them in the way the name impies..as a supplement to meals. Drink a whey protein shake near the end or right after a small meal when insulin levels are high and there is enough glucose to go around.

Its not marketing Hype, its basic physiology and sound research.

Pollain MG, et al. Effect of whey proteins, their oligopeptide hydrolysates and free amino acid mixtures on growth and nitrogen retention in fed and staved rats. JPEN. 1989:vol13#4:382-386.

Wagenmakers AJ, Muscle amino acid metabolism at rest and during exercise: Role in human physiology and metabolism. Exercise & sport Secience Rev. 1998;26:287-314

William J. Kraemer, et. at. Hormonal responses to consecutive days of heavy-resistance exercise with or without nutritional supplementation J Appl Physiol 1998 85: 1544-1555.

RB Kreider, et al. Effects of ingesting supplements designed to promote lean tissue accretion. Int. J.Sport Nutrition 6.3, 1996:234-236.

P.J. Cribb, A.D. Williams, A. Hayes, M.F. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise Volume 34 - Number 5 - May 2002

Lands LC, Grey VL and Smountas AA.1999 Effect of a cysteine donor on muscular performance.J Appl Physiol. 87 (4):1381-1385.

Thank you, Eric! This is why I love these message boards; there will always be someone who shows up and backs up what he says with proof or at least legit references. Hearsay, conjecture and word of mouth are the bane of science and fact.

Hey KawiNinja & Awais , stop high-fiving each other and read this.

Fitnessman, am I out of line with this post? I'm laying the sarcasm a little thick, but I'm not being nasty, alright

KS

Kill Shot · 07-27-2002, 01:04 AM

cough..

**fitnessman** · 07-27-2002, 01:53 PM

Sarcasm is always welcome!

Meni · 07-27-2002, 05:21 PM

what about when you eat every 2 hours, whey still too fast?

EricS · 07-27-2002, 06:26 PM

Too fast for what?

Look, like i said before, have youe whey shakes at the end of a meal when blood glucose and insulin levels are up. It won't be wasted. And i must say that it is never actually "wasted"it may verywell be used for something other than directly stimulating muscle growth, but its not wasted.

And that can be said for any protein.

Kill Shot · 07-28-2002, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EricS
Too fast for what?

Look, like i said before, have youe whey shakes at the end of a meal when blood glucose and insulin levels are up. It won't be wasted. And i must say that it is never actually "wasted"it may verywell be used for something other than directly stimulating muscle growth, but its not wasted.

And that can be said for any protein.

Bu-Bum-Bump!

Cough...LOL.

THE REAL first person with correct info on whey

Mr.Lean · 07-28-2002, 04:44 PM

Just mix whey with 400ml of skimmed milk, a handfull of nuts and a piece of fruit instead of a meal or 200ml of skimmed milk and a couple of rice cakes as a smaller meal and make sure you have a similar or whoel food meal 2 hours later. Simple really - just dont have whey and water alone to replace a meal. Personally I wouldnt go over 40 grams of whey protein per sitting unless its postworkout. I cant see why you wouldnt want to mix the whey with milk and have a small snack with it!!!!.

Meni · 07-28-2002, 05:10 PM

I just had 6 oz of 95% lean hamburg
1/2 cup of green beans
then 1 scoop of Optimum Whey

EricS · 07-28-2002, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Lean
Just mix whey with 400ml of skimmed milk, a handfull of nuts and a piece of fruit instead of a meal or 200ml of skimmed milk and a couple of rice cakes as a smaller meal and make sure you have a similar or whoel food meal 2 hours later. Simple really - just dont have whey and water alone to replace a meal. Personally I wouldnt go over 40 grams of whey protein per sitting unless its postworkout. I cant see why you wouldnt want to mix the whey with milk and have a small snack with it!!!!.

I consider all food i put in my mouth as a "MEAL" I don't belevie in snaks.

Kill Shot · 07-30-2002, 12:00 AM

cough..gotta see a doctor about that cough...(ya, I'm kind of a media whore..as long as truth is served). Sorry fellas, last time I'll buoy this post. LOL

brooklyn mike · 07-30-2002, 12:20 AM

how do u spike ur isulin or take advantage of ur anobolic window or whatver its called?...i read in an article u are jsut suppost to drink like a few glasses of juice or have some raisins and u the simple carbs will casue an islulin spike is this true?...

EricS · 07-30-2002, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brooklyn mike
how do u spike ur isulin or take advantage of ur anobolic window or whatver its called?...i read in an article u are jsut suppost to drink like a few glasses of juice or have some raisins and u the simple carbs will casue an islulin spike is this true?...

eat a good amount of high glycemic carbs

http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm