Eric Satterwhite - Should I Take Casein Or Whey Protein?

**webmaster** · 08-19-2003, 05:42 PM

Understanding the link between the structure and function of a particular muscle will help you to make the right decision, put together an intelligent program and start adding some high quality muscle mass.

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D&G · 08-20-2003, 02:31 AM

Two things:

If whey and casein together is not an optimal choice why is it the preferred choice of mother nature? Breast milk, the stuff that makes us grow in the first place is a mixture of the two. It worked well for a few billion people.

Why only a focus on whey and casein? I know they are the most popular but surely egg albumen is worthy of a mention seeing as it fits in between in terms of digestion speed, you don't believe that would have a place?

EricS · 08-20-2003, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by D&G
Two things:

If whey and casein together is not an optimal choice why is it the preferred choice of mother nature? Breast milk, the stuff that makes us grow in the first place is a mixture of the two. It worked well for a few billion people.

Why only a focus on whey and casein? I know they are the most popular but surely egg albumen is worthy of a mention seeing as it fits in between in terms of digestion speed, you don't believe that would have a place?

Well firstly, you can not buy breast milk. And secondly the composition of breast milk changes as the baby ages.

The first few days it is largly lactose, with minimal casein there is hardly any whey at all. I don't beleive that there is any. It is mainly composed of colostrum and IgA and other immunoglobulins.and a large amount of fat for energy content.

More over there is not evidence to say that breast milk is the best. there are numerous studies that suggest that soy based formulas are utilized more efficently that the casein in breast milk.

then after the first week, there is little colustrom and the type of immunoglbulin changes and the protein is mainly casein however, breast milk has a very low amount of protein to begin with.

And sure egg albumin is a fine protein, but this article was about the primary dairy proteins because they comprise over 90% of the protein that bodybuilders consume and pretty much dominate that corner of the supplement market.

And if you re-read you'll notice that I cover whole food proteins as well. Egg albumin (egg white) would be a whole food and can be applied to that part of the article.

Thats why.

**Beast** · 08-20-2003, 05:42 AM

Interesting.

Eric, what do you do for your pre and post workout nutrition and the meals following post workout?

**Beast** · 08-20-2003, 06:29 AM

Also, could you give an example, using foods and powders, of what the meal plans during a day would look like following this.

**str8flexed** · 08-20-2003, 08:47 AM

good info as always. While I agree with eric on all points... I sort of think most of this is just splitting hairs if you are consuming enough protein to begin with. Someone only consuming 100g per day at 180 lbs... it might make a big difference... but if your eating over 2.2g/kg, I can't see all the hair splitting making a big diff.

But a very informative article

Layne "but it won't be as good as the ALA article"

EricS · 08-20-2003, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beast
Interesting.

Eric, what do you do for your pre and post workout nutrition and the meals following post workout?

my pre work out is 25g whey and 35g dextrose

post workout is 50g whey and 35g dextros

then a serving of rice and 24 gm whey.

Then 1 MRP

Then I have something like a whole grain or somethign with a good bit of fiber and 25g whey.

Then the restof the day I will have something likea chicken breast with broccoli, cauliflower and carrots and 15g whey

Or ill have whole grain pasta or spouted grain bread with some naturla peanut butter or olives and the whey.

a couple hours later, I'll have a MRP and so on.

Every Try Ezeikel sprouted grain bread? ? Its actually good! no flour!

**Beast** · 08-20-2003, 02:01 PM

I need to get some Ezeikel bread. I've had it before and now that I know my local health food store carries it

square · 08-20-2003, 07:42 PM

Eric S.

I know that you are a strong advocate of MRPs. I am just curious as to what your top 3 favorates are.

-OUT

EricS · 08-20-2003, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by square
Eric S.

I know that you are a strong advocate of MRPs. I am just curious as to what your top 3 favorates are.

-OUT

Well I'm Not really an 'Advocate" of Mrps, I just find them easy, convienent, and a greate way to get a lot of high quality protein....Ok, so I'm an advocate. But I advocate whey just as much

For MRPs, I Like AST's NytroPro-40

Met-Rx's origonal

Despite some of the un founded claims, Muscle milk by cytosport

and Prolabs Mass Matrix. However, this one uses whey as a major source of protein, not usually a good idea.

mrabercrombie13 · 08-21-2003, 03:48 PM

Eric

When you take the whey shake after finishing the "whole food meal" should it be only with water?

EricS · 08-21-2003, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrabercrombie13
Eric

When you take the whey shake after finishing the "whole food meal" should it be only with water?

Yeah anything is fine, as long as it isn't mixed with milk, you will be ok. I'm fond of mixing it with vanilla flavored almond milk myself!

mrabercrombie13 · 08-21-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EricS
Yeah anything is fine, as long as it isn't mixed with milk, you will be ok. I'm fond of mixing it with vanilla flavored almond milk myself!

Ok, thanks. Good article too by the way, very informative.

kullio · 08-23-2003, 11:38 AM

why not mix with milk?

EricS · 08-23-2003, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kullio
why not mix with milk?

Milk protein is mostly casein

mrabercrombie13 · 08-24-2003, 10:15 PM

Eric,
I have another question. How long do you suggest waiting to eat a 'whole food meal' again after consuming the casein based meal?
Still 2-3 hours, or will that not be enough time? I have always eaten every 2-3 hours no matter what it was.

EricS · 08-25-2003, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrabercrombie13
Eric,
I have another question. How long do you suggest waiting to eat a 'whole food meal' again after consuming the casein based meal?
Still 2-3 hours, or will that not be enough time? I have always eaten every 2-3 hours no matter what it was.

Yeah that is fine.

Stay Puft · 08-25-2003, 10:09 AM

After reading this article, I got to thinking:

You mentioned that after you consumer casein, that all other proteins you eat will coagulate with casein in your stomach and be digested slowly with the casein. So, if this is the case, for someone who doesnt particularly enjoy cottage cheese, I could Eat 10-15g of Cottage Cheese, followed by 20-25g's of Whey (at same sitting, before bed).

Would that have a similar effect to eating 30-40g of cottage cheese?

(NOTE: sorry the measurements refer to the amount of protein in the serving, not serving size)

EricS · 08-25-2003, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stay Puft
After reading this article, I got to thinking:

You mentioned that after you consumer casein, that all other proteins you eat will coagulate with casein in your stomach and be digested slowly with the casein. So, if this is the case, for someone who doesnt particularly enjoy cottage cheese, I could Eat 10-15g of Cottage Cheese, followed by 20-25g's of Whey (at same sitting, before bed).

Would that have a similar effect to eating 30-40g of cottage cheese?

(NOTE: sorry the measurements refer to the amount of protein in the serving, not serving size)

You could, but then you aren't really gettign your money's worth from the whey.
But any cheese will do if you don't like cottage. There are a number of fat free cheeses that are actually pretty good.

however, I would not think that 15g would be enough. Most reseach starts with 30. Atleast the ones I have read that look at digestion kenetics.

But to answer you question, I do not think that it would have the same effects as just casein. It slows it down, sure. But I doubt that it comes down to a creeping crawl like casein.

You are probably better off just havign the 15g of cheese and calling it a night. save the whey for other times.

Stay Puft · 08-25-2003, 01:45 PM

Very Good point about the $$$, never crossed my mind.

Back to pure cottage cheese here, from 1 cup (~30g of protein) aprox. what % is that of casein? (Obviously, very high but someone must know the percent)

Thanks alot.

kevinj2003 · 08-25-2003, 01:47 PM

I am a little bit confused by the part of the article that states to have a whey shake shortly after a meal. I had always thought that the best time to have a whey shake was after a workout so your muscles could get protein right away, within an hour of your workout. Are you saying you should eat a meal after your workout, then drink the whey shake instead of having the shake right away?

Stay Puft · 08-25-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinj2003
I am a little bit confused by the part of the article that states to have a whey shake shortly after a meal. I had always thought that the best time to have a whey shake was after a workout so your muscles could get protein right away, within an hour of your workout. Are you saying you should eat a meal after your workout, then drink the whey shake instead of having the shake right away?

To clear your confusion. I believe the message to be conveyed is to continue with your standard post-wo shake as you have always done. Eric S. was saying to have a small whey shake after a normal meal throughout the day to increase anabolic potential(this is due to the rise in insulin after a meal containing carbohydrates).

kevinj2003 · 08-25-2003, 04:38 PM

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.

Stay Puft · 08-25-2003, 05:43 PM

np man, I have been doing this with breakfast and another mid-day meal for a week or so since article came out. Hard to say results specifically from this but i have been bulkin well!?

EricS · 08-25-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stay Puft
np man, I have been doing this with breakfast and another mid-day meal for a week or so since article came out. Hard to say results specifically from this but i have been bulkin well!?

The results will come, don't worry. It is esspecially helpful when dieting down. You can't really put a finger on it, but you are just as lean as ever, but you have this fuller and harder apperance. You just look damn good!

You'll see solid gains through out the year. The key is to be consistant and stay on it.

LHDan · 08-26-2003, 03:31 PM

Eric, I didn't read this in the article, but I read it here on the board, if you take whey and casein together, the whey will be used by your body for energy rather than muscle building. The point was made in a pre-bed shake thread. You seem to state though that it would be ok to eat cottage cheese and whey. The reason I ask is because my prebed shake consists of about 12g of whey, 12 g of milk isolate, 12g of egg, and a tbsp of canola oil. Is the whey being wasted here? Or would the milk isolate slow it down?

03-01-2004, 08:29 PM

Hi,

I know its been a long time since the last posting, but I was wondering if someone (Eric?) out there can advise me.

Most articles (including Eric's own nutrition/supplementation regime) state that it is necessary to add (about 30g) of hi GI carb supplement to the shake.

I am very reluctant to do this as the idea of regularly causing a considerable spike in my insulin levels worries me. My mother suffered Type II diabetes and I (about 3 years ago) was diagnosed as "glucose intolerant". (At that stage I used to eat a lot of processed carbohydrates, particularly in the form of copious amounts of white bread rolls.) My reasons for bodybuilding (apart from the aesthetics) is to improve my health and to lessen my chances of developing diabetes. I do, however, want to put on considerable lean muscle.

Can you suggest how I might go about approaching my protein supplementation following weight training? Can I have a "whole food" meal, including some carbohydrates such as fruit, immediately following the training and then, about 20 minutes later, have a whey (and creatine) shake? Any (other)suggestions? Thanks.

10-31-2006, 07:55 AM

Hey there, can i ask a question.

I train late at night and finish at 10.00 when the gym closes. I then have my shake of dextrose and whey within 30 minutes. What can i eat then if i hit bed by about 12 midnight.

Also what is meant by whole food, and casein based food. Can someone give me examples of what that is meant to be?

And finally. Even if the meal I eat is protein rich (rice and chicken) should I still have the shake?

Kind Regards
Fareed