Saudi Girl Sentenced to More Lashes Than Her Rapists (Religion of Peace Headsup!)

[CitadelArmyJAG]

Saudi Girl Sentenced to More Lashes Than Her Rapists
By DONNA ABU-NASR
AP
AL-AWWAMIYA, Saudi Arabia (Nov. 21) - When the teenager went to the police a few months ago to report she was gang-raped by seven men, she never imagined the judge would punish her - and that she would be sentenced to more lashes than one of her alleged rapists received.

The story of the Girl of Qatif, as the alleged rape victim has been called by the media here, has triggered a rare debate about Saudi Arabia's legal system, in which judges have wide discretion in punishing a criminal, rules of evidence are shaky and sometimes no defense lawyers are present.

The result, critics say, are sentences left to the whim of judges. These include one in which a group of men got heavier sentences for harassing women than the men in the Girl of Qatif rape case or three men who were convicted of raping a boy. In another, a woman was ordered to divorce her husband against her will based on a demand by her relatives.

In the case of the Girl of Qatif, she was sentenced to 90 lashes for being alone in a car with a man to whom she was not married - a crime in this strictly segregated country - at the time that she was allegedly attacked and raped by a group of other men.

In the sleepy, Shiite village of al-Awwamiya on the outskirts of the eastern city of Qatif, the 19-year-old is struggling to forget the spring night that changed her life. An Associated Press reporter met her in a face-to-face interview. She spoke on condition of anonymity to protect her privacy; the AP does not identify rape victims unless they ask to be named.

Her hands tremble, her dark brown eyes are lifeless. Her sleep is interrupted by a replay of the events, which she describes in a barely audible whisper.

That night, she said, she had left home to retrieve her picture from a male high school student she used to know. She had just been married - but had not moved in with her husband - and did not want her picture to remain with the student.

While the woman was in the car with the student, she said, two men intercepted them, got into the vehicle and drove the couple to a secluded area where the two were separated. She said she was raped by seven men, three of whom also allegedly raped her friend.

In a trial that ended in November - in which the prosecutor asked for the death penalty for the seven men - four of the men received between one and five years in prison plus 80 to 1,000 lashes, said the woman. Three others are awaiting sentencing. Neither the defendants nor the plaintiffs retained lawyers, as is common here.

"The big shock came when the judge sentenced me and the man to 90 lashes each," said the woman. The sentence was handed down as part of the rape trial. Lashes are usually spread over several days, dealt around 50 at a time.

The sentences have yet to be carried out, but the punishments ordered have caused an uproar.

"Because I could make no sense (of the sentence) and became in dire need of patience, I muttered after I read the verdict against the Girl of Qatif: 'My heart is with you,"' wrote Fatima al-Faqeeh in a column in Al-Watan newspaper.

Justice in Saudi Arabia is administered by a system of religious courts according to the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islamic Sharia law. Judges - appointed by the king on the recommendation of the Supreme Judicial Council - have complete discretion to set sentences, except in cases where Sharia outlines a punishment, such as capital crimes.

That means no two judges would likely hand down the same verdict for similar crimes. A rapist, for instance, could receive anywhere from a light or no sentence to death, depending on the judge.

Saudis are urging the Justice Ministry to clarify the logic behind some rulings. In one recent case, three men convicted of raping a 12-year-old boy received sentences of between one and two years in prison and 300 lashes each. In contrast, another judge sentenced at least four men to between six and 12 years imprisonment for fondling women in a tunnel in Riyadh.

Saleh al-Shehy, a columnist for Al-Watan, asked Justice Minister Abdullah Al-Sheik to explain why the boy's rapists got a lighter sentence than the men in last year's sexual harassment case.

"I won't ask you my brother, the minister, if you find the ruling satisfactory or not," wrote al-Shehy. "I will ask you, 'Do you think it satisfies God?"

"Please explain to us how one judge ruled and how the other ruled? What evidence did the one rely on and what proof did the other use?" he added.

The broad discretion judges enjoy have been a disaster for Fatima, another Saudi woman. She suddenly found herself divorced from her husband, Mansour al-Timani, after her half-brothers went to a judge and told him their sister had married beneath her.

Fatima, whose full name has not been given in media reports, had been married for over three years and was pregnant with her second child when the judge declared the marriage void in July 2005.

Today, Fatima sits in jail with her 11-month-old son - her 4-year-old daughter was recently freed - rather than return to the custody of her family as the judge decreed.

The problems over sentencing are exacerbated by loose trial rules, in which physical evidence sometimes is not presented.

The Girl of Qatif said her trial had two sessions. The three trial judges asked for her statement, then heard the statement from the seven defendants in the first court session, according to the woman. In the second, about a month later, the judges pronounced their verdict. It was not known if there were other sessions she did not attend.

Judges in the case referred The Associated Press to the Justice Ministry when asked about the sentencing. The ministry, in a statement Tuesday, said rape could not be proved. There were no witnesses and the men had recanted confessions they made during interrogation, the statement said. It said the verdict cannot be appealed.

Sharia allows defendants to deny signed confessions, according to Abdul-Aziz al-Gassem, a lawyer who was not involved in the case. They still get punished if convicted, but the verdict is lighter.

"The lack of transparency in the investigation, the trial and the sentencing, plus the difficulties that journalists have to get access lead to deep a darkness where everything is possible," said al-Gassem.

[Diesel66]

nice misleading title

four of the men received between one and five years in prison plus 80 to 1,000 lashes

Nevermind that her crime is completly unreleated to her being a victim of rape.

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

nice misleading title



Nevermind that her crime is completly unreleated to her being a victim of rape.

Her crime is being in a car with a dude...they were taken from that car and raped. How is it completly unrelated?

Are you muslim?

[Budweiser]

The laws over there are some of the most ****ed up laws you will ever find.

[EOY]

Originally Posted by Budweiser

The laws over there are some of the most ****ed up laws you will ever find.

The same laws you'll find in the Bible. The only difference is that we still observe these laws to this day.

[Regice]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Her crime is being in a car with a dude...they were taken from that car and raped. How is it completly unrelated?

Are you muslim?

No Jagerboy, you see, that's why religion is so great!

[Budweiser]

Originally Posted by EOY

The same laws you'll find in the Bible. The only difference is that we still observe these laws to this day.

So you support rapists then?

[EOY]

Originally Posted by Budweiser

So you support rapists then?

And what exactly gave you that impression? Because nothing about my post even remotely implies what you said.

[Geno]

Welcome to the land of the barbarians. Women can't drive either.

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by Geno

Welcome to the land of the barbarians. Women can't drive either.

http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/1308

[EOY]

Originally Posted by Budweiser

So you support rapists then?

Just curious, what did you find neggable about that particular post of mine? Because I didn't really say anything. I didn't condone or condemn anything, I was merely stating a fact.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Her crime is being in a car with a dude...they were taken from that car and raped. How is it completly unrelated?

Because one has nothing to do with the other. If she robbed a bank and was raped right afterwerds, should we let her go ?

Are you muslim?

no.

Originally Posted by Geno

Welcome to the land of the barbarians. Women can't drive either.

women cant drive anywhere

[Viking22]

Originally Posted by EOY

The same laws you'll find in the Bible. The only difference is that we still observe these laws to this day.

That's why they say, "Islam, building a bridge to the 13th century"

[EOY]

Originally Posted by Viking22

That's why they say, "Islam, building a bridge to the 13th century"

Even further, to the time of Jesus and Moses (peace be upon them).

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Because one has nothing to do with the other. If she robbed a bank and was raped right afterwerds, should we let her go ? no.




women cant drive anywhere

You are a moron.

[greekgeek]

In my Book there's a thing called Justice.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

You are a moron.

great rebuttle.



Explain why she should be immune from criminal charges because she happened to be raped on the same day.

[photomasterx]

just a quick explenation of the law.

Women are not allows to get into cars with men they are not there relatives or husband.

This law was introduced to stop pick-up prostitution where people pick up prostitues take the to remote location and have sex with them. If the police pulls a person over they could just say they where "friends" and get away with it. But becuase of this law it makes it impossible for prostitues to get into cars with men without both of them getting punished. Also same with adultry women would get into cars with men and they would go and have sex in the car.

That's why she was punished becuase she broke the law that stated women and men should not be in a car together if the men are not cousins, uncles, fathers, brothers, grand-father, husbands-family or husband.

She was punished for a completly different crime. You see there where 2 crimes commited :

(1) A women got into a car with a man who was not related to her or her husband or husbands direct family.

(2) A women was raped.


So 2 punsihment's where given for 2 diffferent crimes.

Secondly there is not fixed penility for crimes in Saudi Arabia becuase courts are controlled by tribes where each trible judges give whatever punishment they want in most cases the punishment given is against what the quran say's.

For example in this situation the punishment should have been execution for all involved in rape becuase the punishmnet is fixed in Islamic law but the judge decided to give there own tribal rules instead.

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

great rebuttle.



Explain why she should be immune from criminal charges because she happened to be raped on the same day.

The car she was riding in was intercepted by the rapists....thus, she is being punished for riding in a car which then lead to her being raped. She did not ride in a car at noon and then at 8pm she got raped, stop trying to go that route.

Also, the fact that you are equating riding in a car to robbing a bank let alone you agreeing that it should be a crime at all is mind blowing.

That is why you are a moron.

[photomasterx]

By the way i would like to add in general most arabic "justice" systems are crap and even there "islamic" systems have nothing to do with Islam and are generally bull****.

Like there so called "islamic laws" where women can not drive cars becuase allegedly it's against islam.

There whole "Sharia" system is a joke from start to finish with some the world's most stupidest laws in existance which where pulled out of thin air and blended into true islamic law to create some proper screwed up "justice" system. Women are often punished for stuff that the men should be punished for.

Also they have other bull**** laws as well which i'm not going to get into at this time.

Saudi Arabia is one of ther most incompetent moron nation in the world also corrupt and screwed up.

[Hemp6473]

i think that the whole thing is messed up, what kind of system are they running over there?

[photomasterx]

Originally Posted by Hemp6473

i think that the whole thing is messed up, what kind of system are they running over there?

They claim they are running Sharia but what they did was just mix islam with tribal arabic law and opinion to get some stupid system which every body hates even other hadrcore sunni muslims from other countries have condemed the system.

More explenation of how Sharia works:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=49



.

[deeyala]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

The car she was riding in was intercepted by the rapists....thus, she is being punished for riding in a car which then lead to her being raped. She did not ride in a car at noon and then at 8pm she got raped, stop trying to go that route.

Also, the fact that you are equating riding in a car to robbing a bank let alone you agreeing that it should be a crime at all is mind blowing.

That is why you are a moron.

it's a crime in the eyes of the Saudi system...

wanna criticize their laws, start a new thread about Saudi laws, because the title of your thread suggests otherwise

you provided no link to your news article, added a misleading title - then started randomly calling people morons for pointing out the obvious..

[JonZ]

"Welcome to the land of the barbarians."


Well I dont even think that applies. Alot of barbaric clans had codes of honor they lived by.

[Canadian Nanook]

Photomaster has explained it very well

two different crimes

If the woman had stolen the car, then was stopped and raped, shouldn't she still get the punishment for stealing the car?

It may seem odd, but it does prevent prostitution.

[JAGERBOY]

WTF? Why did my post dissapear?

[StartStrength]

Jagerboy sorry man, but I think you're wrong about this one, although I could see if you didn't specifically mean it (not trying to start **** or anything or being sarcistic) In this case I think the two events were unrelated. She happened to be in her car with her (bf?), and then she got raped. I'm not sure how you could link the two conclusively. Perhaps, she was raped because her rapists didn't like to see her with another man, but that doesn't make much sense intuitively, seeing how they would have had to deal with another threat (the man).

That being said, a lot of the laws over there are pretty messed up, like how women can't drive and whatnot, but that should be another discussion in itself. And I have to agree that the title is misleading (but it could be an honest mistake on your part).

[StartStrength]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

WTF? Why did my post dissapear?

Big Brother is watching you lol, I have no clue, I actually read it and was gonna quote it and reply with the above ^^^ post but then it disappeared on me

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by StartStrength

Jagerboy sorry man, but I think you're wrong about this one, although I could see if you didn't specifically mean it (not trying to start **** or anything or being sarcistic) In this case I think the two events were unrelated. She happened to be in her car with her (bf?), and then she got raped. I'm not sure how you could link the two conclusively. Perhaps, she was raped because her rapists didn't like to see her with another man, but that doesn't make much sense intuitively, seeing how they would have had to deal with another threat (the man).

That being said, a lot of the laws over there are pretty messed up, like how women can't drive and whatnot, but that should be another discussion in itself. And I have to agree that the title is misleading (but it could be an honest mistake on your part).

Im not saying her being raped was a direct result of being in a car...Im just responding to Diesel66 saying that the two are COMPLETLY unrelated as if saying she drove in a car at noon and got raped at 8pm. She was kidnapped from the car she was riding in. There is a relation there. She is being punished for riding in a car (that car she was kidnapped from) with a man that wasn't a relative.

And again, this isnt my thread.

[FSUFan4]

I think the punishment for the girl is complete Bs.

You won't find many Muslims however that are sympathetic to this girl. I probably treat my dog better than many Muslim men treat their women.