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11-12-2006, 08:00 PM
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#1
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Registered User
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Posts: 532
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Just got my latest edition of National Geographic
And on the front of it is an ape child, and the subtitle says its the worlds oldest baby, 3.3 million year old bones found, now what do the Jesus freaks say about that?
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11-12-2006, 08:17 PM
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#2
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God is Greater
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Let me guess, an artist's rendition reconstructing an entire orangutan's face from half a jaw bone? 
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0611/index.html
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Pbuh: If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but God Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Servant and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Servant and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few.
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11-12-2006, 08:23 PM
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#3
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yec calvinist fundie
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so they found a monkey skull?
I'm gonna need more than that.
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awol 23/5/08
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11-12-2006, 08:33 PM
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#4
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Truthitarian
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by timbo81
so they found a monkey skull?
I'm gonna need more than that.
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If anyone is lacking artifacts or proof, it is the world's religions.
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If the human mind were simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it- Emerson Pugh.
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11-12-2006, 08:36 PM
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#5
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Banned
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Curious_Wun
And on the front of it is an ape child, and the subtitle says its the worlds oldest baby, 3.3 million year old bones found, now what do the Jesus freaks say about that?
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How do they know it is 3 million years old?
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11-12-2006, 09:26 PM
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#6
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Troll Magnet
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it's so funny to see religious people being critical of science, when they don't apply the same critical thinking to their own religion. talk about double standards.
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11-12-2006, 09:30 PM
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#7
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Archaeologist
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gunsgirlsnglory
How do they know it is 3 million years old?
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Radiometric dating.
Orangutans do not and have not lived in the part of the world. They live in Southeast Asia and they definitely have not lived for more than 2 million years (probably less). This is definitely not an orangutan.
As for other critters: this was found in a place where other ancient hominid specimens have been found and where chimpanzees do not live. You have to face the truth sometime.
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11-12-2006, 09:31 PM
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#8
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God is Greater
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AKR
it's so funny to see religious people being critical of science, when they don't apply the same critical thinking to their own religion. talk about double standards.
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It's funny to see atheists swallowing whatever is colorfully depicted in a journal as "scientific" even though how the conclusions are being drawn eludes their intellects.
Maybe if you applied the same level of skepticism you do to religion to speculative historical conclusions that scientists attempt to draw you wouldn't find the situation as humorous?
__________________
*** There is no one free of all need, of whom all else are in absolute need, but God ***
Pbuh: If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but God Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Servant and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Servant and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few.
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11-12-2006, 09:33 PM
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#9
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Archaeologist
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SYRIANKID
It's funny to see atheists swallowing whatever is colorfully depicted in a journal as "scientific" even though how the conclusions are being drawn eludes their intellects.
Maybe if you applied the same level of skepticism you do to religion to speculative historical conclusions that scientists attempt to draw you wouldn't find the situation as humorous?
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You don't know the first thing about biological anthropology and yet here you are acting like an expert.
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11-12-2006, 09:36 PM
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#10
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God is Greater
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fidelis
You don't know the first thing about biological anthropology and yet here you are acting like an expert.
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I just reread my last post. Nothing in it even hinted at my opinion on my level of my expertise on anything.
But I can recognize when people fold like lawn chairs to what they consider to be academic authorities. People are skeptical except against the things they agree with.
__________________
*** There is no one free of all need, of whom all else are in absolute need, but God ***
Pbuh: If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but God Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Servant and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Servant and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few.
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11-12-2006, 09:37 PM
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#11
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Bob Wills wannabe
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Uh, will the fundamentalists please show me where these exact words are in the Word of God:
automobile
nuclear
computer
antibiotics
factory
bodybuilding
protein
college
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11-12-2006, 09:40 PM
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#12
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SYRIANKID
I just reread my last post. Nothing in it even hinted at my opinion on my level of my expertise on anything.
But I can recognize when people fold like lawn chairs to what they consider to be academic authorities. People are skeptical except against the things they agree with.
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So I must just be "swallowing whatever is colorfully depicted in a journal" because I am actually studying anthropology and human evolution? I guess my professors, who are writing these things, are just making things up to get grants, or are worthlessly deluded themselves. It's a shame that these guys can fool all the serious scientists in the world. 
Some of us may have actually studied this stuff formally and have informed opinions. I'm going to bed, I have to work out tomorrow morning.
edit: And by the very fact that you are able to so confidently say biological anthropologists are completely wrong implies that you fancy yourself a little smarter than they are, especially when you haven't seen the evidence they have worked with first-hand. You probably don't even know the first thing about the distinctions in primate morphology. How could you tell apart a monkey from an ape?
Last edited by Fidelis; 11-12-2006 at 09:43 PM.
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11-12-2006, 09:41 PM
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#13
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God is Greater
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cowboyathlete
Uh, will the fundamentalists please show me where these exact words are in the Word of God:
automobile
nuclear
computer
antibiotics
factory
bodybuilding
protein
college
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_premise
Why should any of those words be in the "Word of God"? The goal of revelations is to tell you what you should believe and do so that God will be pleased with you, and also what you should disbelieve in and not do. It's not a journal on everything you need to know in daily life to survive. It has a specific purpose and the information is oriented to fit that purpose.
__________________
*** There is no one free of all need, of whom all else are in absolute need, but God ***
Pbuh: If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but God Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Servant and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Servant and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few.
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11-12-2006, 09:44 PM
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#14
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Capitalist
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SYRIANKID
It's funny to see atheists swallowing whatever is colorfully depicted in a journal as "scientific" even though how the conclusions are being drawn eludes their intellects.
Maybe if you applied the same level of skepticism you do to religion to speculative historical conclusions that scientists attempt to draw you wouldn't find the situation as humorous?
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Some do, alot don't. Evolution is a theory and if there is a hole it is the Scientists responsbility to empirically analyze it and discard it if proven false. Thats what science is. The ability to for them to admit "Ok, we were wrong on that conclusion, we will continue research to find an alternative" is one of the differences between Science and religion. You discard the false and useless in science and if it is proven so then discard it
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11-12-2006, 09:47 PM
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#15
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God is Greater
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fidelis
So I must just be "swallowing whatever is colorfully depicted in a journal" because I am actually studying anthropology and human evolution? I guess my professors, who are writing these things, are just making things up to get grants, or are worthlessly deluded themselves. It's a shame that these guys can fool all the serious scientists in the world. |
Sometimes science is polluted by false premises, ESPECIALLY when we are trying to conclude things about the past. So yes, if you are so INSULTED by the idea that you and your profs are wrong about a particular thing, then you have accentuated my point that you are data mining and unskeptical.
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edit: And by the very fact that you are able to so confidently say biological anthropologists are completely wrong implies that you fancy yourself a little smarter than they are, especially when you haven't seen the evidence they have worked with first-hand. You probably don't even know the first thing about the distinctions in primate morphology.
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Drawing conclusions about the past is not a matter of intelligence. I could be the biggest moron on planet Earth and you would still have to accept the possibility that what the biological anthropologists are trying to construct about the past is wrong. The greatest minds on Earth were wrong for thousands of years before certain scientific breakthroughs, you shouldn't be indignant to the idea that this scenario could be and IS recurring.
__________________
*** There is no one free of all need, of whom all else are in absolute need, but God ***
Pbuh: If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but God Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Servant and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Servant and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few.
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11-12-2006, 09:53 PM
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#16
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Banned
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gunsgirlsnglory
How do they know it is 3 million years old?
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It works like this...
They find bones in strata that is dated by the type of fossils found in it. The fossils are then dated by the type of strata they are found in, which in turn gives a date for the fossils, which tells you the date of the strata...
Hmmm...I seem to be going in circles...
Lets not forget carbon dating. A method of dating that assumes the earth has been subjected to the same amount of radiation for thousands if not millions of years. lol
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11-12-2006, 09:54 PM
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#17
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Archaeologist
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SYRIANKID
Sometimes science is polluted by false premises, ESPECIALLY when we are trying to conclude things about the past. So yes, if you are so INSULTED by the idea that you and your profs are wrong about a particular thing, then you have accentuated my point that you are data mining and unskeptical.
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I'm not insulted by that at all. I'm am, however, insulted that you think I'm just reading the National Geographic and accepting what it says. We have actually examined the evidence for human evolution and you have never seemed to have a grasp of it at all. You seem to think that artist's renditions actually have a bearing on how scientists interpret the evidence, when it's actually the opposite. The artists draw what the scientists believe the evidence suggests is true. If you want to learn how the scientists determine what they believe is true, maybe you should go to a university library and find some scholarly journals in biological anthropology. Then you can examine their methods and then decide what you believe.
This is as far as I'm going in this conversation. When you've taken an objective look at the evidence, we can talk again.
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Drawing conclusions about the past is not a matter of intelligence. I could be the biggest moron on planet Earth and you would still have to accept the possibility that what the biological anthropologists are trying to construct about the past is wrong. The greatest minds on Earth were wrong for thousands of years before certain scientific breakthroughs, you shouldn't be indignant to the idea that this scenario could be and IS recurring.
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Sorry, I believe what the evidence suggests. I'm open to the possibility that it's wrong, but it certainly doesn't appear to be. Tell me, could any amount of evidence convince you that the Quran is wrong? This is a hypothetical question so I don't care what evidence you believe is or is not there right now. I'm asking what if.
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11-12-2006, 09:56 PM
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#18
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Archaeologist
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aarakis
It works like this...
They find bones in strata that is dated by the type of fossils found in it. The fossils are then dated by the type of strata they are found in, which in turn gives a date for the fossils, which tells you the date of the strata...
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Wrong.
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Hmmm...I seem to be going in circles...
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You are, and it's because you haven't the faintest idea how it really works.
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Lets not forget carbon dating. A method of dating that assumes the earth has been subjected to the same amount of radiation for thousands if not millions of years. lol
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Carbon dating isn't used to date 3 million year old fossils. It's totally irrelevant to this thread and only demonstrates your lack of understanding.
Please Google search for radiometric dating. Then Google isochron dating. Then electron varve analysis. Then index fossils. You have to understand the other stuff before you get to move on to index fossils.
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11-12-2006, 10:01 PM
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#19
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Troll Magnet
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SYRIANKID
It's funny to see atheists swallowing whatever is colorfully depicted in a journal as "scientific" even though how the conclusions are being drawn eludes their intellects.
Maybe if you applied the same level of skepticism you do to religion to speculative historical conclusions that scientists attempt to draw you wouldn't find the situation as humorous?
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i never said anything about accepting what was in national geographic, as i haven't even seen/read this issue. but it makes a hell of a lot more sense to believe in conclusions concerning evolution, when they're drawn from decades and decades of peer reviewed SCIENTIFIC research, as opposed the followers of some dusty old book that rely on hearsay.
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11-12-2006, 10:01 PM
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#20
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Colin Powell SAYS...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aarakis
It works like this...
They find bones in strata that is dated by the type of fossils found in it. The fossils are then dated by the type of strata they are found in, which in turn gives a date for the fossils, which tells you the date of the strata...
Hmmm...I seem to be going in circles...
Lets not forget carbon dating. A method of dating that assumes the earth has been subjected to the same amount of radiation for thousands if not millions of years. lol
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You clearly have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to radiometric dating.
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If I like bestiality, necrophilia and S&M, am I just flogging a dead horse?
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11-12-2006, 10:02 PM
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#21
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Bob Wills wannabe
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SYRIANKID
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_premise
Why should any of those words be in the "Word of God"? The goal of revelations is to tell you what you should believe and do so that God will be pleased with you, and also what you should disbelieve in and not do. It's not a journal on everything you need to know in daily life to survive. It has a specific purpose and the information is oriented to fit that purpose.
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In other words the Word of God still has to be interpreted and applied. Since words like computer and gasoline are not in the Bible, it is still up to us to figure out how it applies.
__________________
1. I thought all along you'd be the death of me, but I met one tonight who wants what's left of me!
2. You are so full of s***, maintenance is still unclogging the toilet.
3. Save a horse, ride a cowboy!
4. This mission does not exist, nor will it ever exist.
5. I'd like to check you for ticks.
Last edited by cowboyathlete; 11-12-2006 at 10:05 PM.
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11-12-2006, 10:10 PM
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#22
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God is Greater
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cowboyathlete
In other words the Word of God still has to be interpreted and applied. Since words like computer and gasoline are not in the Bible, it is still up to us to figure out how it applies.
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Well some things have no bearing at all regarding God, Heaven, or Hell, like computers and gasoline.
But some things DO have an impact, like human origins and the ultimate cause of any change in the Universe. So you should be very careful about drawing sketchy conclusions in those fields.
__________________
*** There is no one free of all need, of whom all else are in absolute need, but God ***
Pbuh: If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but God Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Servant and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Servant and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few.
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11-12-2006, 10:14 PM
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#23
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God is Greater
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fidelis
I'm not insulted by that at all. I'm am, however, insulted that you think I'm just reading the National Geographic and accepting what it says. We have actually examined the evidence for human evolution and you have never seemed to have a grasp of it at all. You seem to think that artist's renditions actually have a bearing on how scientists interpret the evidence, when it's actually the opposite. The artists draw what the scientists believe the evidence suggests is true. If you want to learn how the scientists determine what they believe is true, maybe you should go to a university library and find some scholarly journals in biological anthropology. Then you can examine their methods and then decide what you believe.
This is as far as I'm going in this conversation. When you've taken an objective look at the evidence, we can talk again.
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Unfortunately, our experience with biological anthropologists is tainted by some of their past charades.
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/origin_of_man_14.html
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/origin_of_man_15.html
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/origin_of_man_16.html
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/origin_of_man.html
So please, don't ever confuse scienists with their historian hybrids. Don't mix what can be empirically tested today with what is speculatively drawn about the past. The study of astronomy is different from our attempts to draw conclusions about HOW our universe got to where it is now. The study of geology is different from the studies we use to piece together how our Earth changed to arrive at what we see today.
Do you consider historians to be scientists? How can you compare what can be proven, now, today, in a lab, in front of everyone, with what someone attempts to piece together millions and billions of years ago from our vantage (or disadvantage) point.
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Sorry, I believe what the evidence suggests.
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Hey so do I. What a coincidence.
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I'm open to the possibility that it's wrong, but it certainly doesn't appear to be. Tell me, could any amount of evidence convince you that the Quran is wrong? This is a hypothetical question so I don't care what evidence you believe is or is not there right now. I'm asking what if.
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Of course, my belief in the Truth of the Qur'an is based on rational evidence. If it can be refuted, then you have dismantled Islam! The challenge has stood for 3 years on the forum and almost 1500 years in the world, so good luck and good game.
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*** There is no one free of all need, of whom all else are in absolute need, but God ***
Pbuh: If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but God Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Servant and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Servant and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few.
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11-12-2006, 10:22 PM
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#24
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Spud of the SEA!!!
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Originally Posted by SYRIANKID
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Ahahahaha! Too true.
Anyway, carbon dating is only accurate to 80,000 years, this is admitted by scientists...so how does one get to 3.3million?
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11-12-2006, 10:23 PM
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#25
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God is Greater
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by potatoe
so how does one get to 3.3million?
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Time travel. Didn't they teach you that at school, creationist boy?
http://timetraveler.ytmnd.com/
__________________
*** There is no one free of all need, of whom all else are in absolute need, but God ***
Pbuh: If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but God Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Servant and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Servant and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few.
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11-12-2006, 10:24 PM
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#26
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Colin Powell SAYS...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by potatoe
Ahahahaha! Too true.
Anyway, carbon dating is only accurate to 80,000 years, this is admitted by scientists...so how does one get to 3.3million?
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Because they don't use carbon dating. They use alternative methods of radiometric dating like the potassium-argon or rubidium-strontium methods.
__________________
"I am anti-life, the beast of judgment. I am the dark at the end of everything, the end of universes, gods, worlds.....of everything. Sss. And what will you be then, Dreamlord?"
"I am hope."
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If I like bestiality, necrophilia and S&M, am I just flogging a dead horse?
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11-12-2006, 10:26 PM
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#27
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God is Greater
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JBDW
Because they don't use carbon dating. They use alternative methods of radiometric dating like the potassium-argon or rubidium-strontium methods.
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Can you tell us about the limitations of such dating methods? (I'll give you a headstart before I link swarm you)
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*** There is no one free of all need, of whom all else are in absolute need, but God ***
Pbuh: If anyone testifies that None has the right to be worshipped but God Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His Servant and His Apostle, and that Jesus is God's Servant and His Apostle and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise with the deeds which he had done even if those deeds were few.
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11-12-2006, 10:33 PM
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#28
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Colin Powell SAYS...
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,527
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 8850
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SYRIANKID
Can you tell us about the limitations of such dating methods? (I'll give you a headstart before I link swarm you) |
Shoot. I know there are a few limitations, and that it isn't perfect (nothing is) but that doesn't change the fact that it is extremely erroneous and misleading to assume that carbon dating is the only method of dating out there. In any case, I'm interested to see what the other limitations of alternative radiometric dating methods are.
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"I am anti-life, the beast of judgment. I am the dark at the end of everything, the end of universes, gods, worlds.....of everything. Sss. And what will you be then, Dreamlord?"
"I am hope."
-Choronzon vs Morpheus
If I like bestiality, necrophilia and S&M, am I just flogging a dead horse?
Owe reps to:
yeahitsgoeamei
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11-12-2006, 10:37 PM
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#29
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Spud of the SEA!!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Spokane, Washington, United States
Age: 20
Stats: 5'5", 125 lbs
Posts: 15,569
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 41836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SYRIANKID
Can you tell us about the limitations of such dating methods? (I'll give you a headstart before I link swarm you) |
Islam and Christianity come toghether to fight a common enemy ROFL.
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11-12-2006, 10:44 PM
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#30
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Colin Powell SAYS...
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,527
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 8850
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by potatoe
Islam and Christianity come toghether to fight a common enemy ROFL.
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Coming together..? You have yet to provide any kind of argument against radiometric dating, apart from an entirely false assumption that carbon 14 dating is the only method used. I wouldn't say that you've done much 'fighting', but I welcome any kind of reading material you have that I could look at, that actually has scientific arguments against it.
__________________
"I am anti-life, the beast of judgment. I am the dark at the end of everything, the end of universes, gods, worlds.....of everything. Sss. And what will you be then, Dreamlord?"
"I am hope."
-Choronzon vs Morpheus
If I like bestiality, necrophilia and S&M, am I just flogging a dead horse?
Owe reps to:
yeahitsgoeamei
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