Puroresu dying?

[Deathstroke]

Good read from Strong Style Spirit:

Originally Posted by Stuart

You can't really blame one thing. It is definitely a number of things, which I believe began with Hashimoto vs. Ogawa, when Hashimoto didn't get his win back like he was supposed to in 4/00. There were signs of lost popularity before that, with the 3 Musketeers ageing and young guys not getting pushed (there used to be outrage online at how slow Nagata/Tenzan/Kojima were pushed), but nothing serious. Hashimoto losing to Ogawa led to Hashimoto's draw power decreasing, many fans getting depressed and leaving or turning over to MMA. Choshu, Fujinami, and Inoki can all be blamed for this. Choshu and Hashimoto weren't getting along and Hashimoto's "retirement" allowed Choshu's pupil, Kensuke, to become the #1 guy for Sekigun (regular army). Fujinami had become president in June '99 and turned out to be an awful replacement for Sakaguchi, as Fujinami could never say "No" to Inoki, while Sakaguchi could. Inoki of course masterminded Ogawa's mega push to try and make him the #1 star in pro wrestling, but New Japan couldn't control Ogawa and Ogawa eventually even turned against Inoki to join DSE.

All this was tied into the MMA boom, which was the next part of the popularity loss. New Japan always existed in the eyes of Japanese fans as the strongest form of combat there was. This fantasy held up as long as they stayed out of MMA, but then fans began questioning whether they really were the strongest, because PRIDE fights looked so real and more exciting. This led to New Japan trying to incorporate more shoot factors into the product to try and keep up, but the real disaster was Nagata's loss to Mirko. Kashin had lost to a Gracie, but avenged that loss and was something of a hero for a while. Nagata's loss was followed up by Nakanishi's losses, and even Fujita's inability to topple the "Big 3" of PRIDE - Mirko, Fedor, Nogueira - contributed, as Fujita was seen by many as New Japan's true MMA representative. And so the fantasy of Strong Style collapsed, although there were small beacons of hope like Nakamura, who did well and is basically now the only New Japan wrestler that fans will "hold up" against PRIDE fighters as someone who might be as strong. Many label Nagata and Nakanishi "war criminals" of New Japan because they brought down the fantasy of Strong Style, and while the company is also at fault, neither of these two were forced to fight and chose it as means of becoming famous quick. So both have a little blame on their shoulders, and maybe that explains their loyalty to New Japan since and trying to help raise it.

Another big problem was the collapse of the infrastructure in New Japan. Sakaguchi was the perfect president, because he had no enemies, and even Baba's crew respected him. Fujinami wasn't an awful president on the surface, but if you look at his reign, all the problems started and accelerated then, as he become Inoki's puppet president. So in retrospect, he was an awful president, and his replacement Kusama was a joke, and Simon is continuing the tradition now, but at least isn't ruining the main product. Inoki found his way back in through Fujinami, and when Sagawa died, Inoki became majority owner and his Inoki Office tore apart New Japan in many ways with destructive booking. Then you had the massive exodus of wrestlers to ZERO-ONE, All Japan, WJ, and whereever else. Then you had the hidden masterminds of New Japan leaving one after another, such as Watanabe to All Japan and Nakamura to ZERO-ONE. Uei and Yamanaka remained, but Uei moved into another role that turned him into one of New Japan's big problems. Yamanaka became a tool of the Inoki Office, hated by wrestlers, and today the Uei/Yamanaka/Watanabe/Nakamura crew is spread out all over the industry, with only Watanabe working with New Japan after leaving All Japan, promoting WRESTLE LAND.

The inability to transition from the 3 Musketeers/Kensuke generation to the third generation properly was also fatal. Kojima left, while Nagata, Nakanishi, and Tenzan all suffered in different ways in the 2001~2004 era. They have all managed to recover to some extent, especially now Nagata and Nakanishi's shoot losses have kind of faded, but because of those shoot losses and the lack of a proper generation change, all of them are not what they should have been in terms of star power and may never be. Even though Kojima escaped much of this damage, he also isn't as big a star as some expected, possibly because despite his good treatment in All Japan, he isn't appearing on national TV at all, so is more of a star to the diehards. When Nakanishi won the G1 in 1999, despite his shortcomings in the ring, he looked like the next star, but because Choshu drove home the Kensuke ace route, by the time Nakanishi was set to really reach the top, it was the Inoki Office era.

And finally, a more simple problem. When the 3 Musketeers were growing up, their breakout matches all aired in excellent timeslots on TV Asahi, exposing them to millions of new fans. New Japan, as well as NOAH, is stuck well after midnight nowadays and their best programs are on cable/satellite, where only diehard fans will watch them. Nakamura is really the only young star who has in any way broken through to the mainstream because of his MMA success and also his match with Bob Sapp in 2004 doing a big TV rating. But it is much harder to create stars than it used to be, at least on a mainstream level. I'm sure all of the promising young guys will become stars among "pro wrestling fans", but if they aren't given a higher platform to reach out and draw more fans in, they may never reach the level of their predecessors, no matter how good they become. "Dome puroresu" could forever become "Sumo Hall/Budokan puroresu".

But lately, New Japan has been booked more like it should be. Brock Lesnar was the last great mistake and his disgusting betrayal seems to have finally taught them many lessons. They are doing what we have wanted for ages and building real feuds and real programs with reliable, available talent. Also, customer satisfaction with show quality and fan service is higher than it has been for a long time. The problem is now that so much damage has already been done and they have lost a lot of money. Yuke's is trying to support them, but if New Japan can't reach black figures, Yuke's will have to sell them and we will have to hope there is a buyer. They also have to be careful not to overdo the young generation push again while ignoring some of the older talent, which was one of Uei's big errors.

------------------------------------------------------------

Puroresu definately isn't as popular as it used to be, which is sad. The 80's-90's were the best years for it and it has gone down hill ever since then. I guess wrestling is a cyclical business, not because it goes up and down on it's own but because it goes down when people **** it up with bad booking, old dogs play politics and don't put over the next generation, not making new stars when they need to be made and not pushing the right guys. While the business as a whole may not be on the brink of death, I fear greatly for a couple of these companies as of right now.

[ChuckieB]

I really haven't followed Japanese wrestling since 94 and even then my knowledge was limited so I have a few questions. Is wrestling a cyclical business in Japan? It is here but I always thought it was relatively stable over there. Could part of the problem be that they never really incorporated a more soap opera aspect to it? Puroresu always gets praised for its focus on athletics vs. entertainment. If something like PRIDE and other MMA groups emerge, it really wouldn't make sense to watch a scripted athletic competition when you can watch something similiar in style that is real. Whatever, the reasons it still is a shame.

[lionheart21]

Originally Posted by Snitsky

Good read from Strong Style Spirit:

Originally Posted by Stuart

You can't really blame one thing. It is definitely a number of things, which I believe began with Hashimoto vs. Ogawa, when Hashimoto didn't get his win back like he was supposed to in 4/00. There were signs of lost popularity before that, with the 3 Musketeers ageing and young guys not getting pushed (there used to be outrage online at how slow Nagata/Tenzan/Kojima were pushed), but nothing serious. Hashimoto losing to Ogawa led to Hashimoto's draw power decreasing, many fans getting depressed and leaving or turning over to MMA. Choshu, Fujinami, and Inoki can all be blamed for this. Choshu and Hashimoto weren't getting along and Hashimoto's "retirement" allowed Choshu's pupil, Kensuke, to become the #1 guy for Sekigun (regular army). Fujinami had become president in June '99 and turned out to be an awful replacement for Sakaguchi, as Fujinami could never say "No" to Inoki, while Sakaguchi could. Inoki of course masterminded Ogawa's mega push to try and make him the #1 star in pro wrestling, but New Japan couldn't control Ogawa and Ogawa eventually even turned against Inoki to join DSE.

All this was tied into the MMA boom, which was the next part of the popularity loss. New Japan always existed in the eyes of Japanese fans as the strongest form of combat there was. This fantasy held up as long as they stayed out of MMA, but then fans began questioning whether they really were the strongest, because PRIDE fights looked so real and more exciting. This led to New Japan trying to incorporate more shoot factors into the product to try and keep up, but the real disaster was Nagata's loss to Mirko. Kashin had lost to a Gracie, but avenged that loss and was something of a hero for a while. Nagata's loss was followed up by Nakanishi's losses, and even Fujita's inability to topple the "Big 3" of PRIDE - Mirko, Fedor, Nogueira - contributed, as Fujita was seen by many as New Japan's true MMA representative. And so the fantasy of Strong Style collapsed, although there were small beacons of hope like Nakamura, who did well and is basically now the only New Japan wrestler that fans will "hold up" against PRIDE fighters as someone who might be as strong. Many label Nagata and Nakanishi "war criminals" of New Japan because they brought down the fantasy of Strong Style, and while the company is also at fault, neither of these two were forced to fight and chose it as means of becoming famous quick. So both have a little blame on their shoulders, and maybe that explains their loyalty to New Japan since and trying to help raise it.

Another big problem was the collapse of the infrastructure in New Japan. Sakaguchi was the perfect president, because he had no enemies, and even Baba's crew respected him. Fujinami wasn't an awful president on the surface, but if you look at his reign, all the problems started and accelerated then, as he become Inoki's puppet president. So in retrospect, he was an awful president, and his replacement Kusama was a joke, and Simon is continuing the tradition now, but at least isn't ruining the main product. Inoki found his way back in through Fujinami, and when Sagawa died, Inoki became majority owner and his Inoki Office tore apart New Japan in many ways with destructive booking. Then you had the massive exodus of wrestlers to ZERO-ONE, All Japan, WJ, and whereever else. Then you had the hidden masterminds of New Japan leaving one after another, such as Watanabe to All Japan and Nakamura to ZERO-ONE. Uei and Yamanaka remained, but Uei moved into another role that turned him into one of New Japan's big problems. Yamanaka became a tool of the Inoki Office, hated by wrestlers, and today the Uei/Yamanaka/Watanabe/Nakamura crew is spread out all over the industry, with only Watanabe working with New Japan after leaving All Japan, promoting WRESTLE LAND.

The inability to transition from the 3 Musketeers/Kensuke generation to the third generation properly was also fatal. Kojima left, while Nagata, Nakanishi, and Tenzan all suffered in different ways in the 2001~2004 era. They have all managed to recover to some extent, especially now Nagata and Nakanishi's shoot losses have kind of faded, but because of those shoot losses and the lack of a proper generation change, all of them are not what they should have been in terms of star power and may never be. Even though Kojima escaped much of this damage, he also isn't as big a star as some expected, possibly because despite his good treatment in All Japan, he isn't appearing on national TV at all, so is more of a star to the diehards. When Nakanishi won the G1 in 1999, despite his shortcomings in the ring, he looked like the next star, but because Choshu drove home the Kensuke ace route, by the time Nakanishi was set to really reach the top, it was the Inoki Office era.

And finally, a more simple problem. When the 3 Musketeers were growing up, their breakout matches all aired in excellent timeslots on TV Asahi, exposing them to millions of new fans. New Japan, as well as NOAH, is stuck well after midnight nowadays and their best programs are on cable/satellite, where only diehard fans will watch them. Nakamura is really the only young star who has in any way broken through to the mainstream because of his MMA success and also his match with Bob Sapp in 2004 doing a big TV rating. But it is much harder to create stars than it used to be, at least on a mainstream level. I'm sure all of the promising young guys will become stars among "pro wrestling fans", but if they aren't given a higher platform to reach out and draw more fans in, they may never reach the level of their predecessors, no matter how good they become. "Dome puroresu" could forever become "Sumo Hall/Budokan puroresu".

But lately, New Japan has been booked more like it should be. Brock Lesnar was the last great mistake and his disgusting betrayal seems to have finally taught them many lessons. They are doing what we have wanted for ages and building real feuds and real programs with reliable, available talent. Also, customer satisfaction with show quality and fan service is higher than it has been for a long time. The problem is now that so much damage has already been done and they have lost a lot of money. Yuke's is trying to support them, but if New Japan can't reach black figures, Yuke's will have to sell them and we will have to hope there is a buyer. They also have to be careful not to overdo the young generation push again while ignoring some of the older talent, which was one of Uei's big errors.

------------------------------------------------------------

Puroresu definately isn't as popular as it used to be, which is sad. The 80's-90's were the best years for it and it has gone down hill ever since then. I guess wrestling is a cyclical business, not because it goes up and down on it's own but because it goes down when people **** it up with bad booking, old dogs play politics and don't put over the next generation, not making new stars when they need to be made and not pushing the right guys. While the business as a whole may not be on the brink of death, I fear greatly for a couple of these companies as of right now.

Kinda long, but still a good read. Repped.

[Deathstroke]

Originally Posted by ChuckieB

I really haven't followed Japanese wrestling since 94 and even then my knowledge was limited so I have a few questions. Is wrestling a cyclical business in Japan? It is here but I always thought it was relatively stable over there. Could part of the problem be that they never really incorporated a more soap opera aspect to it? Puroresu always gets praised for its focus on athletics vs. entertainment. If something like PRIDE and other MMA groups emerge, it really wouldn't make sense to watch a scripted athletic competition when you can watch something similiar in style that is real. Whatever, the reasons it still is a shame.

It has it's own problems, it's had it's share of bad booking. For now take NOAH for example: Until recently it's had many old timers being booked over the younger guys. Seriously, just picture 10 Hulk Hogan's and you'll see exactly what I mean. Putting it bluntly you have washed up, AJPW has-beens hogging the spotlight and as a result you'd get repetitive cluster**** match-ups. Hopefully with Naomichi Marufuji as champion, that will change, but I fear he will not draw.

In the 80's and 90's they were drawing the largest crowds and making the most coin, more so than WWF and WCW. And it had storylines, but unlike WWE, the storylines weren't the major part of the show, the wrestling was which pushes good matches over the glits and glamour that is soap opera entertainment.

There is currently WRESTLELAND which is themed around sports entertainment with drama and there is also HUSTLE which markets the sports entertainment style of pro wrestling in Japan. So they are actually incorporating that aspect overseas.