Looking at mankind, I saw them as dead

[SYRIANKID]

Abu Yazid (Allah Most High be well pleased with him) said:

"For twelve years I was the blacksmith of my soul; for five, the mirror of my heart; for one year I observed what was between them, and lo, around my waist I found the girdle of unbelief (zunnar ) in plain view. So I worked for five years at cutting it, seeking a way to dissever it, until at length this was revealed to me and looking at mankind, I saw them as dead and prayed a fourfold Allahu Akbar over them.''


Commentary:

Sufficient to show the subtlety of the hiddenness of ostentation is the difficulty with which this master recognized it, who had few equals in this path. As for his remark ``I saw them as dead,'' it is of the greatest worth and excellence, words that express this meaning being seldom met with outside those of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace). What it signifies is that when he underwent this spiritual struggle and his lower self became trained and his heart enlightened, when he had mastered the self, subdued it, taken full possession of it, and made it submit in everything, he looked at all creatures and found them as if dead, without discoverable trait.

They could not harm or benefit, bestow or keep back, give life or death, join or separate, bring close or make far, save or damn, give sustenance or withhold it; they possessed neither benefit nor harm to themselves, neither life nor death, nor resurrection. Now, the dead are dealt with, regarding these things, as deceased, and they are not feared, nor are hopes placed in them, nor does desire arise for what they have. We do not do anything for their sake, refrain from anything for their sake, or forgo any act of obedience to Allah for their sake, any more than we would to win the praise of the dead. They are not shown-off in front of, their favor is not sought through flattery or compromise of principles, and they do not occupy one's attention.

They are not held in contempt or disparaged; their defects are unmentioned, their shameful points unsought out, their mistakes uncriticized; though if penalties prescribed by Sacred Law are incurred, we enforce them. In short, they are as though nonexistent in everything we have mentioned, the decisions of Allah Most High holding sway over them. Whoever deals with them accordingly has attained to the good of this world and the next. May Allah Most Generous give us success in realizing it

[Marlowfrost]

This idea was actually quite common in with the Epicureans...but without the afterlife. They use atomic theory, which was first thought in fifth century Athens, to justify humanity being dead. They see atoms "uncuttables" as the basis of all life...that and void.

As for "modern" day religons I think the foundation of "humanity being dead" comes from the early Christian thinkers that followed Platonism: the idea that any good in this world derives from a reality above and beyond this world, meaning this world can not possibly create good on its own.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by Marlowfrost

This idea was actually quite common in with the Epicureans...but without the afterlife. They use atomic theory, which was first thought in fifth century Athens, to justify humanity being dead. They see atoms "uncuttables" as the basis of all life...that and void.

As for "modern" day religons I think the foundation of "humanity being dead" comes from the early Christian thinkers that followed Platonism: the idea that any good in this world derives from a reality above and beyond this world, meaning this world can not possibly create good on its own.

But that's not what he means, on both counts.

[Marlowfrost]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

But that's not what he means, on both counts.

Isn't your quote about people not following the rules of God, being as impervious as dead people?

I mentioned Epicureans because their main goal was to free themselves from anxienties of this world, anxienties that would make someone "dead". I mentioned the early Christians because they believed all that is good in this world only came from a higher being, and that if you search for it you will achieve a more fulfilling life, not a dead one.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by Marlowfrost

Isn't your quote about people not following the rules of God, being as impervious as dead people?

No, his main point is this:

"They could not harm or benefit, bestow or keep back, give life or death, join or separate, bring close or make far, save or damn, give sustenance or withhold it; they possessed neither benefit nor harm to themselves"

Because they are all just means in the control of God.

[deeyala]

Originally Posted by Marlowfrost

Isn't your quote about people not following the rules of God, being as impervious as dead people?
.

no it's about ALL creatures..
in the sense that they have no effect.

[EOY]

Good read .

[deeyala]

Originally Posted by EOY

Good read .

i couldn't uderstand the first part of the quote ,though..

For twelve years I was the blacksmith of my soul; for five, the mirror of my heart; for one year I observed what was between them, and lo, around my waist I found the girdle of unbelief (zunnar ) in plain view. So I worked for five years at cutting it, seeking a way to dissever it,

what deos the number of years signify? and to what actions these words refer (blacksmith/mirror/observed in between/girdle of unbelief) ???

i didn't even 'remotely" link them to aything

[EOY]

Originally Posted by deeyala

i couldn't uderstand the first part of the quote ,though..


what deos the number of years signify? and to what actions these words refer (blacksmith/mirror/observed in between/girdle of unbelief) ???

i didn't even 'remotely" link them to aything

I think he was talking about the stages his belief (Iman) was going through.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by deeyala

what deos the number of years signify? and to what actions these words refer (blacksmith/mirror/observed in between/girdle of unbelief) ???

i didn't even 'remotely" link them to aything

The numbers aren't significant, he's just saying that after 12 years of forging and shaping his soul and 5 years of scrutinizing his heart and 1 year of vigilance, he realized that his attitude towards life was that of a disbeliever. So he worked 5 more years at changing the way he viewed creations with respect to the Creator, and he arrived at true monotheism.

Monotheism

La ilaha il-la Allah

The meaning of God

Believing in One God

The Muslim creed

The Muslim creed, detailed