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Old 07-28-2006, 10:03 PM   #1
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Cut Diet...wasting away

Man, I dont know what to say, or where to start.

I want to make clear that this is not a rant/diss about the CUTDIET or any of its methods. As a matter of fact it is the first diet that I have ever actually felt this full,strong and healthy while on. What lies ahead is mearly a tagent about my personal situation in order to maybe get some personalized ideas or suggestions from you guys.

Ok, I just feel like every year I'm running in circles. I'll bust my ass in the gym and on the dinner table day in and out yet still at this time of the year I'm right back where I started.

I "bulked" up to my heaviest to date then started the dreded cut in hopes of showing off some of my hard work. I understand the initial phases of cut diets where one needs to ease into the diet, cutting calories and whatnot. I understand that my weight will fluctuate a few pounds here and there due to glycogen depletion, mild dehydration, etc. Moreover, I understand that my body hates me and every time I try to either gain lean mass or lose fat I will gain more fat than muscle or lose more LBM than fat.

I was very excited when the Cut Diet book showed up on my door step. No, I was freaking PUMPED! I thought that this diet would truly be the last diet book I would ever need. But dayam!

When I started the diet I weighed 172lbs at about 11-13 % BF. Since I'm on my feet all day I chose the upper end of the scale. I have followed the cut 3000 to the T plus or minus a few days when some meals were not timed right, but still, I never missed my overall calories for the day or a carb load.

Today is the middle of week three. I trained legs hard today until I almost yacked my Substance/BCAA cocktail in the rack. I hunched over looking at my watch ticking down from 60sec. 3-2-1, back under the bar and seeing spots at 12 yet grinded out another 3 somehow. I finished my workout and
finally decided to weigh myself for the first time since starting the diet.

After stepping on the scale I almost started to cry when I seen it bounce between 160-161. Aside from the girlfriend telling me I look skinny(not good) and being a bit more vascular I really have noticed no other change. My fat seems to feel a bit more watery and less dense. Also I foresee that my max lifts have suffered considerably. What gives? 11 pounds!

Again, I'm not blaming the diet. I like the diet! I am looking for some advice. I know I could add more calories, but the way it is I can barely afford to eat what I do now or find the time to stuff down more. I talked to a guy today who has done a few contest diets himself and he metioned that he could never diet down to single digits on under 100g carbs per day without sacrificing loads of LBM. Do you think that maybe I may be the same?

I dont know, this has just been a bunch of mindless jabber but honestly, it's a bit depressing when your hopes are set so high and then this happens.

Later!
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Old 07-28-2006, 10:32 PM   #2
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I'm not an expert, but it's most likely that you just lost waterweight. I lost 6 lbs of waterweight in 3 days when I started, and you probably would lose even more if on supplements that have a lot of water retention.
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Old 07-28-2006, 11:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e123low
Man, I dont know what to say, or where to start.

I want to make clear that this is not a rant/diss about the CUTDIET or any of its methods. As a matter of fact it is the first diet that I have ever actually felt this full,strong and healthy while on. What lies ahead is mearly a tagent about my personal situation in order to maybe get some personalized ideas or suggestions from you guys.

Ok, I just feel like every year I'm running in circles. I'll bust my ass in the gym and on the dinner table day in and out yet still at this time of the year I'm right back where I started.

I "bulked" up to my heaviest to date then started the dreded cut in hopes of showing off some of my hard work. I understand the initial phases of cut diets where one needs to ease into the diet, cutting calories and whatnot. I understand that my weight will fluctuate a few pounds here and there due to glycogen depletion, mild dehydration, etc. Moreover, I understand that my body hates me and every time I try to either gain lean mass or lose fat I will gain more fat than muscle or lose more LBM than fat.

I was very excited when the Cut Diet book showed up on my door step. No, I was freaking PUMPED! I thought that this diet would truly be the last diet book I would ever need. But dayam!

When I started the diet I weighed 172lbs at about 11-13 % BF. Since I'm on my feet all day I chose the upper end of the scale. I have followed the cut 3000 to the T plus or minus a few days when some meals were not timed right, but still, I never missed my overall calories for the day or a carb load.

Today is the middle of week three. I trained legs hard today until I almost yacked my Substance/BCAA cocktail in the rack. I hunched over looking at my watch ticking down from 60sec. 3-2-1, back under the bar and seeing spots at 12 yet grinded out another 3 somehow. I finished my workout and
finally decided to weigh myself for the first time since starting the diet.

After stepping on the scale I almost started to cry when I seen it bounce between 160-161. Aside from the girlfriend telling me I look skinny(not good) and being a bit more vascular I really have noticed no other change. My fat seems to feel a bit more watery and less dense. Also I foresee that my max lifts have suffered considerably. What gives? 11 pounds!

Again, I'm not blaming the diet. I like the diet! I am looking for some advice. I know I could add more calories, but the way it is I can barely afford to eat what I do now or find the time to stuff down more. I talked to a guy today who has done a few contest diets himself and he metioned that he could never diet down to single digits on under 100g carbs per day without sacrificing loads of LBM. Do you think that maybe I may be the same?

I dont know, this has just been a bunch of mindless jabber but honestly, it's a bit depressing when your hopes are set so high and then this happens.

Later!

If you're dropping weight that fast it is a simple issue of too few cals in and too many out. Carbs have nothing to do with this, if you have too few carbs, you will still drop weight.

YOu need to up your cals.
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Old 07-28-2006, 11:32 PM   #4
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So, macronutrient manipulation means nothing to you?

I understand the calorie issue.

But let me ask you, do you think that a 3000k diet with 10g carbs will grant the same sparing effects as a 3000k diet with 150g carbs placed strategically, under all conditions?

Last edited by e123low; 07-28-2006 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 07-29-2006, 12:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e123low
So, macronutrient manipulation means nothing to you?

I understand the calorie issue.

But let me ask you, do you think that a 3000k diet with 10g carbs will grant the same sparing effects as a 3000k diet with 150g carbs placed strategically, under all conditions?
i think the specified macros is what makes it so effective. any cut diet is gonna require a high protein intake to spare lean body mass so the decision is either low fat with clean carbs or high healthy fats with low carbs. now, i have done both for contest prep so ill give my input.

the carbs and protein with minimal fat yielded pretty good results but i had to drop calorie intake lower than the fat + protein diet. im sure the reason deals with insulin output being so low leaving fat oxidation remotely higher. energy levels suffered with both but i feel the higher fat intake gave me a little bit of an edge over the higher carbs. even though i consumed less cals with the carb diet, i was able to retain more mass. in all fairness, i used dicana with the cut diet and this most likely increased catabolism but who knows?

my final thoughts are this: i disagree that 1 diet will be very effective for everyone. we all have different body types and respond differently to certain foods/macronutrient ratios. i have found a happy medium for myself though with a tweaked version of the cut diet. i include a little more carbs in the morning and around workout times and lower my fat intake slightly to compensate. breakfast, preworkout meal (2 hours before workout), and post workout meal (around an hour after training) now include 30-40g carbs with 7-10g healthy fats. i keep the during workout shake the same, and follow the cut diet macros for my other 3 meals. experimenting with this, ive noticed a lot more muscle sparing and i agree that my body responds well to clean carb sources. i hear you about wasting away on this diet. true, increased cals following the cut diet would probably correct this, but this experiment proved to be my solution. just thought i would share.

oh, and if anyone is wondering, my low fat contest prep diet in the past was 50/40/10, P/C/F. mood is also a little better following the cut diet guidelines.
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Old 07-29-2006, 03:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder45
the carbs and protein with minimal fat yielded pretty good results but i had to drop calorie intake lower than the fat + protein diet. im sure the reason deals with insulin output being so low leaving fat oxidation remotely higher. energy levels suffered with both but i feel the higher fat intake gave me a little bit of an edge over the higher carbs. even though i consumed less cals with the carb diet, i was able to retain more mass. in all fairness, i used dicana with the cut diet and this most likely increased catabolism but who knows?
HSL is upregolate when insulin is low, leptin goes down and adiponectin goes up with epinephrine and norepinephrine, this bring to an optimal lypolisis and fats oxidation, ever in caloric deficit...
The proteins sparing effect on H-fat diet depend by the level of BHB (betaydrossybutirrate, ketone body) and norepinephrine, as we see during a fasting period..

Resting energy expenditure in short-term starvation is increased as
a result of an increase in serum norepinephrine1,2
Christian Zauner, Bruno Schneeweiss, Alexander Kranz, Christian Madl, Klaus Ratheiser, Ludwig Kramer, Erich Roth,
Barbara Schneider, and Kurt Lenz

ABSTRACT
Background: The effects of food restriction on energy metabolism
have been under investigation for more than a century. Data
obtained are conflicting and research has failed to provide conclusive
results.
Objective: The objective of this study was to test the hypothesis
that in lean subjects under normal living conditions, shortterm
starvation leads to an increase in serum concentrations of
catecholamines and thus to an increase in resting energy
expenditure.
Design: Resting energy expenditure, measured by indirect
calorimetry, and hormone and substrate concentrations were
measured in 11 healthy, lean subjects on days 1, 2, 3, and 4 of an
84-h starvation period.
Results: Resting energy expenditure increased significantly
from 3.97 ± 0.9 kJ/min on day 1 to 4.53 ± 0.9 kJ/min on day 3
(P < 0.05). The increase in resting energy expenditure was
associated with an increase in the norepinephrine concentration
from 1716. ± 574 pmol/L on day 1 to 3728 ± 1636 pmol/L
on day 4 (P < 0.05). Serum glucose decreased from 4.9 ± 0.5
to 3.5 ± 0.5 mmol/L (P < 0.05), whereas insulin did not change
significantly.
Conclusions: Resting energy expenditure increases in early starvation,
accompanied by an increase in plasma norepinephrine.
This increase in norepinephrine seems to be due to a decline in
serum glucose and may be the initial signal for metabolic changes
in early starvation. Am J Clin Nutr 2000;71:1511–5.

Elevation of Plasma Epinephrine Concentrations Inhibits Proteolysis
and Leucine Oxidation in Man via @i-Adrenergic Mechanisms
M. E. Kraenzlin, U. Keller, A. Keller, A. Thelin,* M. J. Arnaud, and W. Stauffacher
Department ofMedicine, University Hospital, CH-4031 Basel, Switzerland; and *Nestec SA, CH-1800 Vevey, Switzerland
Abstract
The role of elevated plasma epinephrine concentrations in the
regulation of plasma leucine kinetics and the contribution of
,8-receptors were assessed in man. Epinephrine (50 ng/kg per
min) was infused either alone or combined with propranolol
(f,-blockade) into groups of six subjects fasted overnight; leucine
flux, oxidation, and net plasma leucine forearm balance
were determined during 180 min. Constant plasma insulin and
glucagon concentrations were maintained in all studies by infusing
somatostatin combined with insulin and glucagon replacements.
Plasma leucine concentrations decreased from
baseline during epinephrine infusion by 27±5 gmol/liter (P
< 0.02) due to a 22±6% decrease in leucine flux (P < 0.05 vs.
controls receiving saline) and to an increase in the metabolic
clearance rate of leucine (P < 0.02). Leucine oxidation decreased
by 36±8% (P < 0.01 vs. controls). fl-Blockade abolished
the effect of epinephrine on leucine flux and oxidation.
Net forearm release of leucine increased during epinephrine (P
< 0.01), suggesting increased muscle proteolysis; the fall of
total body leucine flux was therefore due to diminished proteolysis
in nonmuscle tissues, such as splanchnic organs. Nonoxidative
leucine disappearance as a parameter of protein synthesis
was not significantly influenced by epinephrine. Plasma
glucose and FFA concentrations increased via f,-adrenergic
mechanisms (P < 0.001). The results suggest that elevation of
plasma epinephrine concentrations similar to those observed in
severe stress results in redistribution of body proteins and
exerts a whole body protein-sparing effect; this may counteract
catabolic effects of other hormones during severe stress.

Effect of ,0-Hydroxybutyrate on Whole-Body Leucine Kinetics and Fractional
Mixed Skeletal Muscle Protein Synthesis in Humans
K. Sreekumaran Nair, Stephen L. Welle, David Halliday,* and Robert G. Campbell
Department ofMedicine, University ofRochester School ofMedicine and Dentistry, Rochester NY 14603;
and the *Nutrition Group, Clinical Research Centre, Harrow HA] 3UJ, United Kingdom
Abstract
Because intravenous infusion of 0-hydroxybutyrate (8-OHB)
has been reported to decrease urinary nitrogen excretion, we
investigated in vivo metabolism of leucine, an essential amino
acid, using L-11-'3Cjleucine as a tracer during t9-OHB infusion.
Leucine flux during ,B-OHB infusion did not differ from leucine
flux during normal saline infusion in nine normal subjects,
whereas leucine oxidation decreased 1841% (mean = 30%)
from 18.1±1.1 pmol * kg-' * h-1 (P < 0.01), and incorporation
of leucine into skeletal muscle protein increased 5-17% (mean
= 10%) from 0.048 + 0.003%/h (P < 0.02). Since blood pH
during jt-OHB infusion was higher than the pH during saline
infusion, we performed separate experiments to study the effect
of increased blood pH on leucine kinetics by infusing sodium
bicarbonate intravenously. Blood pH during sodium bicarbonate
infusion was similar to that observed during the
,B-OHB infusion, but bicarbonate infusion had no effect on
leucine flux or leucine oxidation. We conclude that #-OHB
decreases leucine oxidation and promotes protein synthesis in
human beings.

Short-Term Alterations in Carbohydrate Energy Intake in Humans
Striking Effects on Hepatic Glucose Production, De Novo Lipogenesis, Lipolysis, and Whole-Body
Fuel Selection
Jean-Marc Schwarz,* Richard A. Neese,*" Scott Tumer,* Doris Dare,* and Marc K. Hellerstein**
*Department of Nutritional Sciences, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720-3104; and tDivision of Endocrinology and
Metabolism, Department of Medicine, San Francisco General Hospital, University of California, San Francisco, California 94110
Abstract
Short-term alterations in dietary carbohydrate (CHO) energy
are known to alter whole-body fuel selection in humans,
but the metabolic mechanisms remain unknown. We used
stable isotope-mass spectrometric methods with indirect calorimetry
in normal subjects to quantify the metabolic response
to six dietary phases (5 d each), ranging from 50%
surplus CHO (+50% CHO) to 50% deficient CHO (-50%
CHO), and 50% surplus fat (+50% fat). Fasting hepatic
glucose production (HGP) varied by > 40% from deficient
to surplus CHO diets (1.78+0.08 vs 2.43+0.09 mg/kg per
min, P < 0.01). Increased HGP on surplus CHO occurred
despite significantly higher serum insulin concentrations.
Lipolysis correlated inversely with CHO intake as did the
proportion of whole-body lipolytic flux oxidized. Fractional
de novo hepatic lipogenesis (DNL) increased more than 10-
fold on surplus CHO and was unmeasurable on deficient
CHO diets; thus, the preceding 5-d CHO intake could be
inferred from DNL. Nevertheless, absolute hepatic DNL accounted
for < 5 g fatty acids synthesized per day even on
+50% CHO. Whole-body CHO oxidation increased sixfold
and fat oxidation decreased > 90% on surplus CHO diets.
CHO oxidation was highly correlated with HGP (r2 = 0.60).
HGP could account for 85% of fasting CHO oxidation on
+25% CHO and 67% on +50% CHO diets. Some oxidation
of intracellular CHO stores was therefore also occurring.
+50% fat diet had no effects on HGP, DNL, or fuel selection.
We conclude that altered CHO intake alters HGP specifically
and in a dose-dependent manner, that HGP may
mediate the effects of CHO on whole-body fuel selection
both by providing substrate and by altering serum insulin
concentrations, that altered lipolysis and tissue oxidation
efficiency contribute to changes in fat oxidation, and that
surplus CHO is not substantially converted by the liver to
fat as it spares fat oxidation, but that fractional DNL may
nevertheless be a qualitative marker of recent CHO intake.
(J. Clin. Invest. 1995. 96:2735-2743.)
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Old 07-29-2006, 03:54 AM   #7
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Stimulation of Thermogenesis by
Carbohydrate Overfeeding
EVIDENCE AGAINST SYMPATHETIC NERVOUS SYSTEM MEDIATION
STEPHEN WELLE and ROBERT G. CAMPBELL, Endocrine-Metabolism Unit, Monroe
Community Hospital, Department of Medicine, University of Rochester
School of Medicine and Dentistry, Rochester, New York 14603
A B S T R A C T Daily carbohydrate intake of seven men
with normal weight was limited to 220-265 g/d for
6 d and then increased to 620-770 g/d for 20 d, while
intake of protein, fat, and sodium remained constant.
Carbohydrate overfeeding increased body weight by
4.8%, basal oxygen consumption (Vo2) by 7.4%, BMR
by 11.5%, and serum triiodothyronine levels by 32%.
Overfeeding did not affect the thermic effect of a standard
meal. Intravenous propranolol reduced the
thermic effect of a meal by 22% during the base-line
feeding period, and by 13% during carbohydrate overfeeding,
but did not affect preprandial Vo2. Overfeeding
attenuated the rise in plasma glucose and FFA
levels induced by infusion of norepinephrine, but had
no effect on the increase in Vo2 induced by norepinephrine.
Overfeeding did not alter 24-h urinary excretion
of vanillylmandelic acid, supine plasma catecholamine
levels (pre- and postprandial), blood pressure,
or plasma renin activity, but increased peak
standing plasma norepinephrine levels by 45% and
resting pulse rate by 9%. Even though short-term carbohydrate
overfeeding may produce modest stimulation
of sympathetic nervous system activity in man,
the increase in thermogenesis induced by such overfeeding
is neither suppressed by beta adrenergic blockade
nor accompanied by an increased sensitivity to the
thermogenic effects of norepinephrine. These data do
not support an important role for the sympathetic nervous
system in mediating the thermogenic response to
carbohydrate overfeeding.

That is the reason why the cyclical diet are great for cutting
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Old 07-29-2006, 04:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e123low
Man, I dont know what to say, or where to start.

I want to make clear that this is not a rant/diss about the CUTDIET or any of its methods. As a matter of fact it is the first diet that I have ever actually felt this full,strong and healthy while on. What lies ahead is mearly a tagent about my personal situation in order to maybe get some personalized ideas or suggestions from you guys.

Ok, I just feel like every year I'm running in circles. I'll bust my ass in the gym and on the dinner table day in and out yet still at this time of the year I'm right back where I started.

I "bulked" up to my heaviest to date then started the dreded cut in hopes of showing off some of my hard work. I understand the initial phases of cut diets where one needs to ease into the diet, cutting calories and whatnot. I understand that my weight will fluctuate a few pounds here and there due to glycogen depletion, mild dehydration, etc. Moreover, I understand that my body hates me and every time I try to either gain lean mass or lose fat I will gain more fat than muscle or lose more LBM than fat.

I was very excited when the Cut Diet book showed up on my door step. No, I was freaking PUMPED! I thought that this diet would truly be the last diet book I would ever need. But dayam!

When I started the diet I weighed 172lbs at about 11-13 % BF. Since I'm on my feet all day I chose the upper end of the scale. I have followed the cut 3000 to the T plus or minus a few days when some meals were not timed right, but still, I never missed my overall calories for the day or a carb load.

Today is the middle of week three. I trained legs hard today until I almost yacked my Substance/BCAA cocktail in the rack. I hunched over looking at my watch ticking down from 60sec. 3-2-1, back under the bar and seeing spots at 12 yet grinded out another 3 somehow. I finished my workout and
finally decided to weigh myself for the first time since starting the diet.

After stepping on the scale I almost started to cry when I seen it bounce between 160-161. Aside from the girlfriend telling me I look skinny(not good) and being a bit more vascular I really have noticed no other change. My fat seems to feel a bit more watery and less dense. Also I foresee that my max lifts have suffered considerably. What gives? 11 pounds!

Again, I'm not blaming the diet. I like the diet! I am looking for some advice. I know I could add more calories, but the way it is I can barely afford to eat what I do now or find the time to stuff down more. I talked to a guy today who has done a few contest diets himself and he metioned that he could never diet down to single digits on under 100g carbs per day without sacrificing loads of LBM. Do you think that maybe I may be the same?

I dont know, this has just been a bunch of mindless jabber but honestly, it's a bit depressing when your hopes are set so high and then this happens.

Later!

Sorry to hear that man

Maybe the good bros at Scivation can figure out whats going on
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:27 AM   #9
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Well if your losing weight that qucik then you started your calories off to low, bump the cals up, also you will also be losing some water weight on this do to less carbs as well, but if weight is down to much to fast then you should increase the cals.
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder45
i think the specified macros is what makes it so effective. any cut diet is gonna require a high protein intake to spare lean body mass so the decision is either low fat with clean carbs or high healthy fats with low carbs. now, i have done both for contest prep so ill give my input.

the carbs and protein with minimal fat yielded pretty good results but i had to drop calorie intake lower than the fat + protein diet. im sure the reason deals with insulin output being so low leaving fat oxidation remotely higher. energy levels suffered with both but i feel the higher fat intake gave me a little bit of an edge over the higher carbs. even though i consumed less cals with the carb diet, i was able to retain more mass. in all fairness, i used dicana with the cut diet and this most likely increased catabolism but who knows?

my final thoughts are this: i disagree that 1 diet will be very effective for everyone. we all have different body types and respond differently to certain foods/macronutrient ratios. i have found a happy medium for myself though with a tweaked version of the cut diet. i include a little more carbs in the morning and around workout times and lower my fat intake slightly to compensate. breakfast, preworkout meal (2 hours before workout), and post workout meal (around an hour after training) now include 30-40g carbs with 7-10g healthy fats. i keep the during workout shake the same, and follow the cut diet macros for my other 3 meals. experimenting with this, ive noticed a lot more muscle sparing and i agree that my body responds well to clean carb sources. i hear you about wasting away on this diet. true, increased cals following the cut diet would probably correct this, but this experiment proved to be my solution. just thought i would share.

oh, and if anyone is wondering, my low fat contest prep diet in the past was 50/40/10, P/C/F. mood is also a little better following the cut diet guidelines.

I agree 100%, and I have recently changed to what you are doing as well. I am following the cut diet, but are consuming 40g CHO, with 7-8g fat pre and pwo. The way I look at it, is that we have already increased insulin to a pretty good extent, and have stopped lipolysis somewhat, just by consnuming our WPI+XTEND. I think we should take advantage of this, and add in a little CHO. All I know is, that once I added those CHO back in, my energy and lifts wen immediately back up.....
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Old 07-29-2006, 08:58 AM   #11
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Something that stands out to me.

You weighed yourself after your workout. This can have a big impact on your weight due to water balance/glycogen stores/food in your stomach. Irecommend weighing yourself once a week, on the same day each week, first thing in the morning after using the bathroom and before eating. When did you weigh yourself at 172 lbs? Meaning morning, night time, post-workout, etc?
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beast
Something that stands out to me.

You weighed yourself after your workout. This can have a big impact on your weight due to water balance/glycogen stores/food in your stomach. Irecommend weighing yourself once a week, on the same day each week, first thing in the morning after using the bathroom and before eating. When did you weigh yourself at 172 lbs? Meaning morning, night time, post-workout, etc?
I was just getting ready to ask this, great call D.
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beast
Something that stands out to me.

You weighed yourself after your workout. This can have a big impact on your weight due to water balance/glycogen stores/food in your stomach. Irecommend weighing yourself once a week, on the same day each week, first thing in the morning after using the bathroom and before eating. When did you weigh yourself at 172 lbs? Meaning morning, night time, post-workout, etc?
Good eye Derek. I know if I weighed myself after lifting Id be way lighter then I would if I did it first thing in the morning.
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:44 AM   #14
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I have always weighed myself after training. Dont know why but thats how I've always done it. When I did weigh myself at 172 it was after a week at maintainence cals @ 100g carbs/day.

I learned while doing UD2 that my weight would fluctuate dramatically throughout the week but I figured that was understandable due to complete gylcogen depletion and the low cals.

My activity leves have remained the same for the past 10 months. Yet I could add close to a lb a week eating around 3500cals. Now, with the CutDiet, I'm losing close to 2.5 a week at 3000. As young_squatter stated, I may have started my calories too low. But from my point of view, I was starting at the high end to play it safe then make adjustments.

I dont know, gotta run. Thanks guys.
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Old 07-29-2006, 10:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder45
i think the specified macros is what makes it so effective. any cut diet is gonna require a high protein intake to spare lean body mass so the decision is either low fat with clean carbs or high healthy fats with low carbs. now, i have done both for contest prep so ill give my input.

the carbs and protein with minimal fat yielded pretty good results but i had to drop calorie intake lower than the fat + protein diet. im sure the reason deals with insulin output being so low leaving fat oxidation remotely higher. energy levels suffered with both but i feel the higher fat intake gave me a little bit of an edge over the higher carbs. even though i consumed less cals with the carb diet, i was able to retain more mass. in all fairness, i used dicana with the cut diet and this most likely increased catabolism but who knows?

my final thoughts are this: i disagree that 1 diet will be very effective for everyone. we all have different body types and respond differently to certain foods/macronutrient ratios. i have found a happy medium for myself though with a tweaked version of the cut diet. i include a little more carbs in the morning and around workout times and lower my fat intake slightly to compensate. breakfast, preworkout meal (2 hours before workout), and post workout meal (around an hour after training) now include 30-40g carbs with 7-10g healthy fats. i keep the during workout shake the same, and follow the cut diet macros for my other 3 meals. experimenting with this, ive noticed a lot more muscle sparing and i agree that my body responds well to clean carb sources. i hear you about wasting away on this diet. true, increased cals following the cut diet would probably correct this, but this experiment proved to be my solution. just thought i would share.

oh, and if anyone is wondering, my low fat contest prep diet in the past was 50/40/10, P/C/F. mood is also a little better following the cut diet guidelines.

Do you think that the Protein and higher Fat; Lower Carb diet would work better for Endo's. I had done the high protein/high carb 40/40, lower fat 20 diet for 4 months. I got smaller but got smoother. Before this, I had done a type of diet with low carbs and higher fat and protein and looked less smooth.?
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Old 07-29-2006, 10:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder45
i think the specified macros is what makes it so effective. any cut diet is gonna require a high protein intake to spare lean body mass so the decision is either low fat with clean carbs or high healthy fats with low carbs. now, i have done both for contest prep so ill give my input.

the carbs and protein with minimal fat yielded pretty good results but i had to drop calorie intake lower than the fat + protein diet. im sure the reason deals with insulin output being so low leaving fat oxidation remotely higher. energy levels suffered with both but i feel the higher fat intake gave me a little bit of an edge over the higher carbs. even though i consumed less cals with the carb diet, i was able to retain more mass. in all fairness, i used dicana with the cut diet and this most likely increased catabolism but who knows?

my final thoughts are this: i disagree that 1 diet will be very effective for everyone. we all have different body types and respond differently to certain foods/macronutrient ratios. i have found a happy medium for myself though with a tweaked version of the cut diet. i include a little more carbs in the morning and around workout times and lower my fat intake slightly to compensate. breakfast, preworkout meal (2 hours before workout), and post workout meal (around an hour after training) now include 30-40g carbs with 7-10g healthy fats. i keep the during workout shake the same, and follow the cut diet macros for my other 3 meals. experimenting with this, ive noticed a lot more muscle sparing and i agree that my body responds well to clean carb sources. i hear you about wasting away on this diet. true, increased cals following the cut diet would probably correct this, but this experiment proved to be my solution. just thought i would share.

oh, and if anyone is wondering, my low fat contest prep diet in the past was 50/40/10, P/C/F. mood is also a little better following the cut diet guidelines.
Do u think Carb Cycling probably would have been the best way to go between the low carb / low fat diet ideas. You get the carbs needed on the workout days and lower them when off days.
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Old 07-29-2006, 11:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Boi 1906
Do you think that the Protein and higher Fat; Lower Carb diet would work better for Endo's. I had done the high protein/high carb 40/40, lower fat 20 diet for 4 months. I got smaller but got smoother. Before this, I had done a type of diet with low carbs and higher fat and protein and looked less smooth.?
JMO, I think any Endo/Meso does best with Low Carb, higher fat, higher protein. Now, I do not have a clinical to prove this but 10+ years experience leads me to this statement.
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Old 07-29-2006, 12:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Boi 1906
Do you think that the Protein and higher Fat; Lower Carb diet would work better for Endo's. I had done the high protein/high carb 40/40, lower fat 20 diet for 4 months. I got smaller but got smoother. Before this, I had done a type of diet with low carbs and higher fat and protein and looked less smooth.?
yes, i also think this diet will be more potent for endo's. when i started the diet, i was roaming around 9-10% bodyfat and dropped bodyfat at a good pace despite incorporating a very minor deficit in calories. as i became leaner, i found it harder to drop additional bodyfat so i decreased cals slightly and upped my cardio a little. still, the pace was slowing. since then, switched to my modified cut diet and the results are great. i truly think the cut diet is awesome but you are the only one who can figure what works for your body. i found that keeping most the cut diet principles and scheduling carbs around my workouts have proven to be best FOE ME. this, however, will not be the case for everyone. experimentation is the key.

ct-7b - thats some great info you posted. thanks for shedding light on the topic although i did not completely understand everything good find nonetheless

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Old 07-29-2006, 12:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotasice2003
I agree 100%, and I have recently changed to what you are doing as well. I am following the cut diet, but are consuming 40g CHO, with 7-8g fat pre and pwo. The way I look at it, is that we have already increased insulin to a pretty good extent, and have stopped lipolysis somewhat, just by consnuming our WPI+XTEND. I think we should take advantage of this, and add in a little CHO. All I know is, that once I added those CHO back in, my energy and lifts wen immediately back up.....
glad to hear that this is working for someone else. yeah, those added carbs are definitely helping with energy and mainitaining strength. i like youre thinking concerning this approach and its always good to think outside the box.
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Old 07-29-2006, 12:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckRD
JMO, I think any Endo/Meso does best with Low Carb, higher fat, higher protein. Now, I do not have a clinical to prove this but 10+ years experience leads me to this statement.
Chuck, I agree with you. Like I experienced this with my two different diets. The Atkins like diet I did was absolutely successful, but I don't know what exactly was the greatest factor in the fat loss. I did cut out dairy, starches, sugars, ate higher protein, and fat. So with all these things, I dont know what worked.

However when i did the tuna, chicken breast, oats, brown rice diet for 4 months, I lost weight but I looked like a smaller fluffier version of myself.
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e123low
Man, I dont know what to say, or where to start.

I want to make clear that this is not a rant/diss about the CUTDIET or any of its methods. As a matter of fact it is the first diet that I have ever actually felt this full,strong and healthy while on. What lies ahead is mearly a tagent about my personal situation in order to maybe get some personalized ideas or suggestions from you guys.

Ok, I just feel like every year I'm running in circles. I'll bust my ass in the gym and on the dinner table day in and out yet still at this time of the year I'm right back where I started.

I "bulked" up to my heaviest to date then started the dreded cut in hopes of showing off some of my hard work. I understand the initial phases of cut diets where one needs to ease into the diet, cutting calories and whatnot. I understand that my weight will fluctuate a few pounds here and there due to glycogen depletion, mild dehydration, etc. Moreover, I understand that my body hates me and every time I try to either gain lean mass or lose fat I will gain more fat than muscle or lose more LBM than fat.

I was very excited when the Cut Diet book showed up on my door step. No, I was freaking PUMPED! I thought that this diet would truly be the last diet book I would ever need. But dayam!

When I started the diet I weighed 172lbs at about 11-13 % BF. Since I'm on my feet all day I chose the upper end of the scale. I have followed the cut 3000 to the T plus or minus a few days when some meals were not timed right, but still, I never missed my overall calories for the day or a carb load.

Today is the middle of week three. I trained legs hard today until I almost yacked my Substance/BCAA cocktail in the rack. I hunched over looking at my watch ticking down from 60sec. 3-2-1, back under the bar and seeing spots at 12 yet grinded out another 3 somehow. I finished my workout and
finally decided to weigh myself for the first time since starting the diet.

After stepping on the scale I almost started to cry when I seen it bounce between 160-161. Aside from the girlfriend telling me I look skinny(not good) and being a bit more vascular I really have noticed no other change. My fat seems to feel a bit more watery and less dense. Also I foresee that my max lifts have suffered considerably. What gives? 11 pounds!

Again, I'm not blaming the diet. I like the diet! I am looking for some advice. I know I could add more calories, but the way it is I can barely afford to eat what I do now or find the time to stuff down more. I talked to a guy today who has done a few contest diets himself and he metioned that he could never diet down to single digits on under 100g carbs per day without sacrificing loads of LBM. Do you think that maybe I may be the same?

I dont know, this has just been a bunch of mindless jabber but honestly, it's a bit depressing when your hopes are set so high and then this happens.

Later!
I did not see here but what is your work out consist of?
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:31 PM   #22
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Something doesnt add up here, this is the first complaint ive heard.
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:48 PM   #23
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Hey Chuck,

I work in a warehouse which means I'm basically powerwalking for 6-7hrs straight picking orders. I wore a pedometer one day and it read 20mi. This is easily 2000+ cals but somehow I was able to add weight when I wanted to while doing this on not many more cals than I'm eating now. Its only now while trying to cut up that the probs have started to arise.

If I had thought about things before getting so excited I prob should have laid off the thermos and stims. I never accounted for the heat either. The list goes on. Live and learn.

This is only a temp job as school starts soon but I had always reserved the school year for more of a lifestyle diet so I could concentrate on my studies.

I'm really curious right now where I stand strength wise as it's always been a good indicator of LBM loss/gain.

I need your advice if you don't mind, Chuck.
What would be the wiser of these two plans:
1. Carb load then eat at maint for a week while following a type of Upper/Lower split to check how big of a hit my lifts took. This is more of a psychological problem than anything but important to me none the less.

2. Jump to the 3500 diet and keep things rolling along.

Thanks again.
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Old 07-29-2006, 06:58 PM   #24
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Sorry Chuck, I think I missread your question. I follow the workout given in the book. I'm in the middle of week 3 of the conditioning phase.
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:55 AM   #25
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From what I am seeing, you're walking 20 miles a day and burning tons of calories. The Cut Diet enbales you to eat more quality calories and still lose fat. You just didn't account for this macronutrient manipulation and although you were eating 3k calories, you were burning 2k of those at work alone and probably 500 during training! I can start a fire, but the diet before had you losing weight and 3k calories because it wasn't as efficient as the Cut Diet.

I would bump it up to the 3,500 or the 4k calorie plan. I once knew a construction worker who competed and would need 5k calories to diet. Heck, Chuck had Quincy Taylor dieting on 7k calories close to shows!

You need to account for these variables.
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Old 07-30-2006, 10:45 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scivation
From what I am seeing, you're walking 20 miles a day and burning tons of calories. The Cut Diet enbales you to eat more quality calories and still lose fat. You just didn't account for this macronutrient manipulation and although you were eating 3k calories, you were burning 2k of those at work alone and probably 500 during training! I can start a fire, but the diet before had you losing weight and 3k calories because it wasn't as efficient as the Cut Diet.

I would bump it up to the 3,500 or the 4k calorie plan. I once knew a construction worker who competed and would need 5k calories to diet. Heck, Chuck had Quincy Taylor dieting on 7k calories close to shows!

You need to account for these variables.
Well put sir. The CUT DIET is designed to factor in 500-700 cals burning per day based on training with LI cardio. The additional 2000 cals burned from you job needs to be factored into these macros. Definitely move up to the 3500 cals but I would use the 4000 Cal carb load. Try that and see what happens.
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Old 07-30-2006, 07:42 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scivation
From what I am seeing, you're walking 20 miles a day and burning tons of calories. The Cut Diet enbales you to eat more quality calories and still lose fat. You just didn't account for this macronutrient manipulation and although you were eating 3k calories, you were burning 2k of those at work alone and probably 500 during training! I can start a fire, but the diet before had you losing weight and 3k calories because it wasn't as efficient as the Cut Diet.

I would bump it up to the 3,500 or the 4k calorie plan. I once knew a construction worker who competed and would need 5k calories to diet. Heck, Chuck had Quincy Taylor dieting on 7k calories close to shows!

You need to account for these variables.
I think QT might have been on other supps as well. If e123low was eating 3500 before and gaining weight, and losing 2.5 lbs at 3000 cal a day with the same work activities, it probably is not just cals. He's too depleated in glycogen. The weight we has lost is water from the cells from dehydration due to lack of glycogen. To restore the BMR/leptin levels, consume moe carbs for 2 days. I would also recommend bumping up the cals to restore IGF-1 as well.
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