Preworkout Protein... WHEN? an hour before? 30mins? right before?

[AUBURN]

I have read everything and I cannot find any consistancy please do not post what you do. I want reason, proof, evidence, science as to why it should be taken and hour before, 30 mines, etc. When is the OPTIMIUM time before the workout to take a protein SHAKE, not meal! I have found it seems that WHEY is best here and even better when taken with skim milk to help lengthen its life.

Also given that many of us also take exceed, no xplode, etc which consensus says along with the label it should be taken 30 mins before the workout on an empty stomach. If you wish, consider this in your response.

Let's formulate a routine FOR EXAMPLE, but on the BASIS of science!

If you so choose, 3-3.5 hours before, a meal
1hr-1.5 before, say oats and pwo protein shake
30min before, your supplement

Lets make this a quality thread with meaty responses and put an end to countless other threads with no formal consensus lets do it here! Thanks for your time!

[1quick1]

I read that whey is absorbed in about 30 minutes.

[NATHAN518]

30-45 minutes prior with carbs would ensure that you were in the mid-absorptive state throughout your workout and would therefore be optimal...(as long as you are not working out for more than 1.5 hours, in which case you will need a during workout shake)

BUT, i believe a solid meal is optimal for preworkout if at all possible

[Nathan1]

Originally Posted by NATHAN518

30-45 minutes prior with carbs would ensure that you were in the mid-absorptive state throughout your workout and would therefore be optimal...

I respectfully disagree Nathan.

A meal no closer than 1 hour minimum(up to 2 hours) to your workout would be optimal. Empty stomach while working out + BCAA/EAA's pre/during/post w/o would be optimal.

After reading up on both sides of the debate, i believe carbs during a w/o are for athletes(i.e. sports).

Reminder: check my disclaimer....my opinion from my experiences.

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by AUBURN

Let's formulate a routine FOR EXAMPLE, but on the BASIS of science!

You aren't going to like what I have to say but a preworkout protein shake is utter crap compared to a whole food meal. Those who can pack in the whole food meals are the ones who succeed at bodybuilding. That is based on experience and science. Save the protein shake for after your workout or during depending on your goals. Also, if you want a more specific answer as to supplement timing then you should specify what your diet is and whether you are cutting or bulking.

[NATHAN518]

Originally Posted by Nathan1

I respectfully disagree Nathan.

A meal no closer than 1 hour minimum(up to 2 hours) to your workout would be optimal. Empty stomach while working out + BCAA/EAA's pre/during/post w/o would be optimal.

After reading up on both sides of the debate, i believe carbs during a w/o are for athletes(i.e. sports).

Reminder: check my disclaimer....my opinion from my experiences.

I only meant 45 minutes if it has to be a SHAKE...a meal about an hour and a half preworkout is optimal. You don't need anything during workout unless you are working out for long periods of time...that is the whole idea behind preworkout nutrition...
geez...first Scivation and now Nathan1...carbs around your workout are absolutely optimal. I guarantee you every single bodybuilder/nutritionist/science nerd will tell you the same thing...

[NATHAN518]

Originally Posted by deserusan

You aren't going to like what I have to say but a preworkout protein shake is utter crap compared to a whole food meal. Those who can pack in the whole food meals are the ones who succeed at bodybuilding. That is based on experience and science. Save the protein shake for after your workout or during depending on your goals. Also, if you want a more specific answer as to supplement timing then you should specify what your diet is and whether you are cutting or bulking.

Absolutely agree...

[Nathan1]

Originally Posted by NATHAN518

I only meant 45 minutes if it has to be a SHAKE...a meal about an hour and a half preworkout is optimal. You don't need anything during workout unless you are working out for long periods of time...that is the whole idea behind preworkout nutrition...
geez...first Scivation and now Nathan1...carbs around your workout are absolutely optimal. I guarantee you every single bodybuilder/nutritionist/science nerd will tell you the same thing...

regarding the first part, i was wrong....i was thinking a real meal.

i agree with des on the pre-w/o nutrition.....definately should be a whole food meal IMO. Either way, if i can only get whey/oats or something, the whey is downed not closer than 1 hour.

Please don't compare me to Scivation. I do not agree with protein during a w/o.

Carbs around your workout "optimal"? For someone who lifts for pleasure/casual bb'er? I still disagree. I know of one "science nerd" who I agree with.

Obviously though, there is no end all/say all in any case. My w/o is done as late as 10pm many times. Carbs are NOT optimal in that situation.

Question: why is it that you think an average member of this site needs carbs post w/o?

EDIT: also, you put words in my mouth when you implied that i don't agree with carbs "around" the workout. I agree with them PRE...but at least an hour-2 hours before.

[AUBURN]

So what we have agreed on thus far is...

If possible a preworkout meal 1hr to 1.5hr before the workout is better than a protein shake alone. But if you cannot do a meal, the protein shake should be taken 30-45 minutes before the workout. Also, you take your supplement ,usually 30 mins before the workout, religiously.

[NATHAN518]

Originally Posted by Nathan1

regarding the first part, i was wrong....i was thinking a real meal.

i agree with des on the pre-w/o nutrition.....definately should be a whole food meal IMO. Either way, if i can only get whey/oats or something, the whey is downed not closer than 1 hour.

Please don't compare me to Scivation. I do not agree with protein during a w/o.

Carbs around your workout "optimal"? For someone who lifts for pleasure/casual bb'er? I still disagree. I know of one "science nerd" who I agree with.

Obviously though, there is no end all/say all in any case. My w/o is done as late as 10pm many times. Carbs are NOT optimal in that situation.

Question: why is it that you think an average member of this site needs carbs post w/o?

EDIT: also, you put words in my mouth when you implied that i don't agree with carbs "around" the workout. I agree with them PRE...but at least an hour-2 hours before.

Not putting words in your mouth...just misread your statement...you said "carbs during workout"
I agree completely here and again, IMO, you don't need anything DURING workout if your preworkout nutrition is good...when i said carbs around workout I meant pre and post...definitely not during

I thought you said carbs around workout were for athletes...
Just a misunderstanding... its all good...you still have a cool name

What is optimal can vary greatly according to scenario, but generally speaking, a whole food meal pre and protien+carbs post is the way to go

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by AUBURN

Also, you take your supplement ,usually 30 mins before the workout, religiously.

What supplements are you referring too?

[Nathan1]

Originally Posted by NATHAN518

Not putting words in your mouth...just misread your statement...you said "carbs during workout"
I agree completely here and again, IMO, you don't need anything DURING workout if your preworkout nutrition is good...when i said carbs around workout I meant pre and post...definitely not during

I thought you said carbs around workout were for athletes...
Just a misunderstanding... its all good...you still have a cool name

What is optimal can vary greatly according to scenario, but generally speaking, a whole food meal pre and protien+carbs post is the way to go

oh! well as long as we understand each other now. we're all entitled to our opinions. my stance is that the following would be OPTIMAL in MOST situations for an average bb'er from this site(i'm just a guy with no credentials though who reads alot and tries many things for myself):

Pre - solid meal with protein/carbs(amounts will vary - excessive amounts of carbs i disagree with) 1-2 hours pre.

During - BCAA/EAA's

Post - BCAA/EAA's....then 1/2 hour post - 30-60g WPI(depending on size).....then 30-45 min. later whole food meal consisting of one's personal choice(of course protein).

[AUBURN]

Originally Posted by deserusan

What supplements are you referring too?

I have not done this routine yet, but I am thinking
Xceed, 30mins before workout, then protein postworkout, and maybe 15 mins later HPCEE. I also would take HPCEE on off days.

P.S. This whiteblood/Greenbulge combo seems very promising, but above are my initial intentions

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by AUBURN

I have not done this routine yet, but I am thinking
Xceed, 30mins before workout, then protein postworkout, and maybe 15 mins later HPCEE. I also would take HPCEE on off days.

P.S. This whiteblood/Greenbulge combo seems very promising, but above are my initial intentions

The timing with Xceed seems about right and it is a very cost effective choice. Are you bulking or cutting? BTW- Here is my review of Xceed.

Originally Posted by deserusan

Once again I would like to thank uhockey and the Designer Supplements team for allowing me to do this review. I have been training and using supplements for over ten years now and did this review to bring a more experienced view of a CEE/NO2 product.

Taste: 9 out of 10

The overall taste of Xceed is very palatable compared to other CEE powedered drinks. I have used Xpand, Amped, and the Cell Mass Xplode stacks in the past and have to say the this is the best tasting out of all of them. My only caution is to not drink this right after brushing your teeth as this product contains citric acid and will taste extremely bitter if you do.

Cost: 10 out of 10

Xceed is one the most cost effective supplements out there. If you are looking for a CEE and NO2 stack this is the best value per serving. Once again, I comparing this to the White Blood/ Green Bulge stack, Xpand, Amped, Cell Mass and Xplode.

Energy: 8 out 10

The main energy ingredient in Xceed, glucuronolactone, provides a very clean energy boost. Unlike some products that rely on heavier stims, this doesn't leave you jittery or full of anxiety. It is a nice boost which allows you to go all out in the gym, but once you leave the gym, you aren't still racing. If you want a more powerful effect then a simple cup of coffee or a caffeine tablet would do the trick. It would give a similiar energy boost that you would feel with Omega Thunder, which utilizes glucuronolactone and caffeine.

Effectiveness: 9 out of 10

This is a very effective supplement for the individual wanting a CEE and NO2 stack. From day one my pumps were great and vascularity was up. These are cosmetic effects in my opinion, but nonetheless, it did what it said it was going to. As far as strength gains are concerned I did set a personal best on front squats while using this product. I really don't train for strength as much anymore because I am very strong already. However, this along with a good diet will allow to pack on some mass and increase your strength.

Overall Quality: 9.5 out of 10

One of the first positive attributes that stood out to me was the fact that Xceed does not hide behind any proprietary blends. You know exactly how much of each ingredient you getting. I feel a lot of people don't concern themselves with this but they should, especially if you are stacking with other supplements. Another reason why I feel this is a great supplement is because you have a great panel of company representatives to ask questions including a medical student. They are respectful and in my opinion, are not out just to make some money.

[jpars]

I notice a SIGNIFICANT decrease in strength, intensity, and overall workout quality when either

1) It has been a bad food day- Not a great breakfast, couldnt eat much at work outside lunch
2)I dont get my preworkoutmeal timed good

The effects of that on me having been said, here is my routine, which works flawlessly for me. This is based on my regular day which generally has me at the gym around 7 30 pm. I am currently seeing about transitioning to mornings (kinda feel like rest of food intake for the day is building more and then i have the whole rest of the day to not worry about getting to the gym) so my preworkout routine would maybe change.

but

usually almost exactly 1 hour and 30 minutes before going to the gym i eat a big dinner. get a lot of protein. i eat a full meal, could be anything, NO FAST FOOD, good whole foods, a bunch of chicken and some rice a roni and veggies or something etc etc, and right after the meal, drink water heavily with meal, heavily, finish it with 24grams optimum whey in water (is that necassary? WHO CARES ITS LIKE .70 cents a scoop!!)

then, i wait exactly an hour, never any less. based on my current food schedule, and pardon the picture, i generally have a bowel movement perfectly in the next hour. I feel completely empty- yet totally loaded.
after an hour i take 2.5grams higher power CEE in grape juice and 2 scoops superpump250 and head to the gym to kill it.

The meal is essential. I think an hour isnt enough- make it an hour and 15 minutes- no way 2 or 3 hours. It really makes my lift better with a full meal perfectly digested.

CEE right after generally 1.5 hour workout- give that 25 minutes to absorb, get home, pound some whey.

so in reality, you have only had a 3 hour gap without eating, and the meal at the start of the gap was my biggest of day.



phew hahaha sorry abou long post. was bored


ps screw all the green bulge etc etc- you cannot beat HP Bulk CEE if you take it right.
CEE dissolved in a glass of grape juice (tons of carbs) shoves that creatine in you just as good if not better as any pill cap or cellmass delivery system you can buy

[Trans_Isomer]

Originally Posted by Nathan1

I respectfully disagree Nathan.

A meal no closer than 1 hour minimum(up to 2 hours) to your workout would be optimal. Empty stomach while working out + BCAA/EAA's pre/during/post w/o would be optimal.

After reading up on both sides of the debate, i believe carbs during a w/o are for athletes(i.e. sports).

Reminder: check my disclaimer....my opinion from my experiences.

You've got it right nathan!

Stop macronutrient intake 2 hours preworkout.

Pre/Peri workout, BCAA's, EAA's, creatine, etc.

Protein, carbs, etc are to be taken in the pre/peri workout scenario if you are an athlete, if you are a bodybuilder, training on an empty stomach is best for optimal body composition

[AUBURN]

Originally Posted by deserusan

The timing with Xceed seems about right and it is a very cost effective choice. Are you bulking or cutting? BTW- Here is my review of Xceed.

LOL, yes cost effective, Im a college student so based on the responses I have read the following is my plan:

1. 1-1.5hr before, full high protein/carb meal
2. 30 min before, xceed
3. Whey protein directly after workout with muiltivitamin
4. HP CEE 30 mins after protein post w/o
5. If I choose, musclemilk before bed, and pre breakfast the next day.

P.S. Is musclemilk the most cost effective casein protein avaliable, again Im poor! lol

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by AUBURN

3. Whey protein directly after workout with muiltivitamin

5. If I choose, musclemilk before bed, and pre breakfast the next day.

P.S. Is musclemilk the most cost effective casein protein avaliable, again Im poor! lol

I'd take a multi with breakfast. As for MM goes good old milk is 80% casein protein, natural, and much cheaper. I'd recommend using some cheap whey, skim milk, and some natural peanut butter before bed for a decent shake.

[NATHAN518]

Originally Posted by Nathan1

oh! well as long as we understand each other now. we're all entitled to our opinions. my stance is that the following would be OPTIMAL in MOST situations for an average bb'er from this site(i'm just a guy with no credentials though who reads alot and tries many things for myself):

Pre - solid meal with protein/carbs(amounts will vary - excessive amounts of carbs i disagree with) 1-2 hours pre.

During - BCAA/EAA's

Post - BCAA/EAA's....then 1/2 hour post - 30-60g WPI(depending on size).....then 30-45 min. later whole food meal consisting of one's personal choice(of course protein).

OK, ok...we are close...I don't like the BCAA's/EAA's during or post...
As long as your workout is under 1.5 hours, I would just go with 30-60g WPI/40-80g carbs/10g leucine immediately post workout followed by a whole food meal an hour later...
but, to each his own...
no carbs post workout? what about glycogen replenishment...its possible some of your WPI will end up as glucose...

[tombstone3@cox.net]

Originally Posted by Trans_Isomer

You've got it right nathan!

Stop macronutrient intake 2 hours preworkout.

Pre/Peri workout, BCAA's, EAA's, creatine, etc.

Protein, carbs, etc are to be taken in the pre/peri workout scenario if you are an athlete, if you are a bodybuilder, training on an empty stomach is best for optimal body composition

I just can't agree with this. The idea is the same whether you are an athlete OR a bodybuilder. Why would they be different? Both are trying to increase size/strength of muscles and tap growth. The best way to do that is to have a HARD workout. The best way to have a hard workout is to have something in your stomach partially digested and feeding the body carbs and protein.

I tried working out on an empty stomach and my workouts are wimpy and worthless. When I eat an hour to an hour and a half before the workout I just attack the weights with focus and power.

My question is, do you want a ferocious workout with grunts and sweat or do you want a wuss workout with whimpering and whining at how weak you feel?

tomb

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by tombstone3@cox.net

I just can't agree with this. The idea is the same whether you are an athlete OR a bodybuilder. Why would they be different?

Aesthetics vs. performance. Do not confuse bodybuilding with powerlifting.

[AUBURN]

Originally Posted by NATHAN518

OK, ok...we are close...I don't like the BCAA's/EAA's during or post...
As long as your workout is under 1.5 hours, I would just go with 30-60g WPI/40-80g carbs/10g leucine immediately post workout followed by a whole food meal an hour later...
but, to each his own...
no carbs post workout? what about glycogen replenishment...its possible some of your WPI will end up as glucose...

Nathan, how does my pre/post sound to you as balanced. Also as for the multi I do take a multi every morning but on days I workout I take another multi with my post shake. Keep in mind these are Equate general multis like 500 vitamins for $10.

[Trans_Isomer]

Originally Posted by deserusan

Aesthetics vs. performance. Do not confuse bodybuilding with powerlifting.

I couldnt have put it better myself.

Most do not consider that by the body having to digest macronutrients during your workout, you shunt blood AWAY from the muscle and brain.

That is NOT optimal.

[tombstone3@cox.net]

Originally Posted by deserusan

Aesthetics vs. performance. Do not confuse bodybuilding with powerlifting.

I still don't agree. Read the rest of my post as to WHY. You can't grow or strengthen without solid workouts and I just don't get solid workouts with an empty stomach or a puny protein shake. I need some solid food. And you can STILL use bodybuilding dieting principles and have a meal before a workout. I don't want to hear somebody try and argue that you can't maintain a cutting or bulking diet if you eat a meal before a workout. It's hogwash. The only difference is a BETTER workout, period.

tomb

[NATHAN518]

Originally Posted by Trans_Isomer

I couldnt have put it better myself.

Most do not consider that by the body having to digest macronutrients during your workout, you shunt blood AWAY from the muscle and brain.

That is NOT optimal.

training on an empty stomach is absolutely not optimal

[AUBURN]

Well guys that the ART of this thing we do. You eat and you "waste" blood to digest that could go to your muscles, you dont eat and you have crap workouts b/c you have no energy. The solution: Equilbrium, where? Well I don't have function to differentiate to find the maximum, so I say take the medium. 1-1.5 hour before you workout eat a meal, you will have energy and it will have been partially digested!

[NATHAN518]

The whole goal with preworkout nutrition is promoting sustained carb/amino acid availability which will minimize catabolism/glycogen expenditure...

[tombstone3@cox.net]

Originally Posted by Trans_Isomer

Most do not consider that by the body having to digest macronutrients during your workout, you shunt blood AWAY from the muscle and brain.

That is NOT optimal.

Then why hotshot do I push hella harder on my workouts after eating some food? Explain again how the blood leaves my body and brain when I get pumps that crush with a power attitude WITH food before a workout but when I don't eat I get a wussy give up feeling and have poor workouts with minor pumps.

I can't explain it any other way than food before workouts = better workouts, period. End of debate and if you haven't tried it I think you better, it works.

tomb

[Trans_Isomer]

Originally Posted by NATHAN518

training on an empty stomach is absolutely not optimal

Ok, state why. Ive got plenty of ammo for my stance

[Trans_Isomer]

Originally Posted by tombstone3@cox.net

Then why hotshot do I push hella harder on my workouts after eating some food? Explain again how the blood leaves my body and brain when I get pumps that crush with a power attitude WITH food before a workout but when I don't eat I get a wussy give up feeling and have poor workouts with minor pumps.

I can't explain it any other way than food before workouts = better workouts, period. End of debate and if you haven't tried it I think you better, it works.

tomb

If youve already made your mind up I cant change it.

End of debate, like you said mr. exercise physiologist

But seriously, back what you say scientifically, with references please. Ive got plenty saying otherwise