Christians, why is it that you have turned your back on Allah and reject Muhammad?

Skwidward · 06-24-2006, 09:49 AM

It couldn't possibly be through your non-belief. You must have made a conscious decision that Allah and Muhammad can in the words of a Christian "go screw themselves."

Did you know that by doing this, you are in fact choosing to go to hell?

No flame bait. Just an arguement turned around and used on the arguer.

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skwidward

Did you know that by doing this, you are in fact choosing to go to hell?

How so?

JBDW · 06-24-2006, 10:00 AM

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Originally Posted by NicVJ

How so?

Because some theists suggest that belief is a 'choice'. Instead of accepting that some things are just plain not believable to some people.

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBDW

Because some theists suggest that belief is a 'choice'. Instead of accepting that some things are just plain not believable to some people.

Sorry I really don't get it. I mean, how does choosing to reject Allah etc tantamount to choosing Hell?

JBDW · 06-24-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

Sorry I really don't get it. I mean, how does choosing to reject Allah etc tantamount to choosing Hell?

Exactly...this is what the other thread was talking about.

I think someone in that thread said that if you 'choose' to disbelieve in God, you are telling him to shove it, and thus you are choosing hell. As if belief was something that could be turned on and off like a tap.

coontang · 06-24-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

Sorry I really don't get it. I mean, how does choosing to reject Allah etc tantamount to choosing Hell?

It doesn't. That's the point. The same is true for choosing to reject Jesus. Get it?

DinoT1985 · 06-24-2006, 10:08 AM

Because I like bacon.

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coontang

It doesn't. That's the point. The same is true for choosing to reject Jesus. Get it?

If you're saying that Christians, by choosing to renounce Allah and Islam are dooming themselves to Islamic hell (if there's such a thing), then I'd agree. The thread didn't specify what type of Hell so I thought they were condemning themselves to their own Hell which was what I found weird.

coontang · 06-24-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

If you're saying that Christians, by choosing to renounce Allah and Islam are dooming themselves to Islamic hell (if there's such a thing), then I'd agree. The thread didn't specify what type of Hell so I thought they were condemning themselves to their own Hell which was what I found weird.

No. The OP is trying to give you a different perspective on a common argument that Christians make.

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coontang

No. The OP is trying to give you a different perspective on a common argument that Christians make.

So what hell is the OP suggesting? Surely not the Christian Hell right?

catmando · 06-24-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinot1985

Because I like bacon.

LOL

NuggzTheNinja · 06-24-2006, 10:52 AM

Um, because he's an ild-chay olester-may?

Blau · 06-24-2006, 10:55 AM

This is ridiculous. Do you know what kind of thread we'd have if a Christian said "Did you know that by choosing Allah and Muhammad, you're choosing to burn in hell, not trying to flame, just trying to inform."? Shut up and go find something else to do, if you didn't want a flame war, you wouldn't have created this thread. You're lying to yourself if you think you weren't trying to start a fight.

coontang · 06-24-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

So what hell is the OP suggesting? Surely not the Christian Hell right?

It's not the muslim hell, it's the real hell. Just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean you won't go there for not believing in Allah.

JBDW · 06-24-2006, 11:02 AM

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Originally Posted by Bluestorm100

This is ridiculous. Do you know what kind of thread we'd have if a Christian said "Did you know that by choosing Allah and Muhammad, you're choosing to burn in hell, not trying to flame, just trying to inform."? Shut up and go find something else to do, if you didn't want a flame war, you wouldn't have created this thread. You're lying to yourself if you think you weren't trying to start a fight.

Actually, that is exactly what was said in the other thread, only that it was directed at atheists in general.

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coontang

It's not the muslim hell, it's the real hell. Just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean you won't go there for not believing in Allah.

See, that's what's confusing. What is the real hell? To the Christians, real hell is their Hell and to the Muslims, real hell is the Islamic Hell. To the atheists, there is no hell. So what real hell are you talking about? If this is a witty attempt by the OP to incite something, it seems more to instill more confusion and frustration than anything.

Blau · 06-24-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBDW

Actually, that is exactly what was said in the other thread, only that it was directed at atheists in general.

That's what I was afraid of. People need to stop guerrilla tactics when it comes to religon, the crusades are over, and Jesus certainly wasn't into guerrilla tactics, that's for sure. People like Pat Robertson only create more anti-Chritian sentiment. I give him credit for speaking what he believes, but he gives Christians a bad name, and turns more people away from the religion that he turns towards it. He should have his mouth taped shut, for a little while anyway.

Ayemelek · 06-24-2006, 11:12 AM

Did you know that by doing this, you are in fact choosing to go to hell?

I hope they serve beer and bacon in hell. Enshalla. : )

coontang · 06-24-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

See, that's what's confusing. What is the real hell? To the Christians, real hell is their Hell and to the Muslims, real hell is the Islamic Hell. To the atheists, there is no hell. So what real hell are you talking about? If this is a witty attempt by the OP to incite something, it seems more to instill more confusion and frustration than anything.

That's the point. To a theist, their version of hell, heaven, god, etc is the TRUE version. Most theists are too close minded to step into somebody else's shoes and try to see things from another perspective.

Most of the time they can't even comprehend the possibility that someone could have a legitimate reason for not believing in their god. So they say that atheists and non believers of their religion are going to hell, when the theist himself rejects practically every other religion for the same reason that the atheist rejects his religion.

I think this thread was prompted by some of the things said in this one:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=824085

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coontang

That's the point. To a theist, their version of hell, heaven, god, etc is the TRUE version. Most theists are too close minded to step into somebody else's shoes and try to see things from another perspective.

Most of the time they can't even comprehend the possibility that someone could have a legitimate reason for not believing in their god. So they say that atheists and non believers of their religion are going to hell, when the theist himself rejects practically every other religion for the same reason that the atheist rejects his religion.

Wasn't that what I said earlier on? That yes, if Hell indeed meant the Islamic Hell, then I'm sure Christians would concede that they're condemning themselves to it if in the first place they'd accept the reality of Islam as a legitimate religion.

I think the point some theists here make is that the signs are too obvious and glaring that to avoid or dismiss them is simply impossible and ignorant. Thus, it deserves hell. The crux then, is whether these signs are really that manifested and comprehensible to everyone as it is to themselves. I'm not sure the OP even comes close to suggesting this as the critical contention. Not in my opinion at least.

coontang · 06-24-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

I think the point some theists here make is that the signs are too obvious and glaring that to avoid or dismiss them is simply impossible and ignorant. Thus, it deserves hell. The crux then, is whether these signs are really that manifested and comprehensible to everyone as it is to themselves. I'm not sure the OP even comes close to suggesting this as the critical contention. Not in my opinion at least.

So tell me why exactly you reject all the glaring signs of Islam?

JBDW · 06-24-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coontang

So tell me why exactly you reject all the glaring signs of Islam?

I don't think he's supporting Christianity here.

That being said, "I think the point some theists here make is that the signs are too obvious and glaring that to avoid or dismiss them is simply impossible and ignorant. Thus, it deserves hell. The crux then, is whether these signs are really that manifested and comprehensible to everyone as it is to themselves. I'm not sure the OP even comes close to suggesting this as the critical contention. Not in my opinion at least."

The bolded part is all that's important to the topic at hand.

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 11:46 AM

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Originally Posted by coontang

So tell me why exactly you reject all the glaring signs of Islam?

Many thanks to JBDW.

JBDW · 06-24-2006, 11:48 AM

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Originally Posted by NicVJ

Many thanks to JBDW.

But you do get the OP's point?

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 11:53 AM

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Originally Posted by JBDW

But you do get the OP's point?

If his intention is to portray the various alternatives people can take and that certain perspective aren't as right and obvious as some people believe it to be, then yes. If you ask me whether his intention is explicitly or even implicitly stated without the slightest sliver of obsfucation, then no. If otherwise, please tell me what or how it is suggested by the OP.

Skwidward · 06-24-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

Wasn't that what I said earlier on? That yes, if Hell indeed meant the Islamic Hell, then I'm sure Christians would concede that they're condemning themselves to it if in the first place they'd accept the reality of Islam as a legitimate religion.

Two questions;
1.) Which hell do athiests go to then, both?
(there is no atheist hell)
2.) What is that "if" doing in there?

By not accepting Jesus Christ as my savior, I don't go to hell "if" I believe. I got to hell because I don't believe.

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skwidward

Two questions;
1.) Which hell do athiests go to then, both?
(there is no atheist hell)
2.) What is that "if" doing in there?

1) To themselves, atheists don't go to Hell. Duh. To the Christians, atheists are condemned to the Christian Hell, and same perspective with the Muslims.

2) The if is there because obviously Christians don't believe Islam is the true legetimate religion so therefore they can't condemn themselves to a Hell which arises from something they believe to be imaginary and even blasphemous.

Skwidward · 06-24-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

If his intention is to portray the various alternatives people can take and that certain perspective aren't as right and obvious as some people believe it to be, then yes. If you ask me whether his intention is explicitly or even implicitly stated without the slightest sliver of obsfucation, then no. If otherwise, please tell me what or how it is suggested by the OP.

I made this thread under the assumption that it was understood that by not believing in Jesus Christ, you are in fact making the decsion to go to hell. If this is not true, how come there is a thread full of 5 pages of Christian testimonials stating that it is so?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skwidward

It couldn't possibly be through your non-belief. You must have made a conscious decision that Allah and Muhammad can in the words of a Christian "go screw themselves."

Did you know that by doing this, you are in fact choosing to go to hell?

No flame bait. Just an arguement turned around and used on the arguer.

Skwidward · 06-24-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

1) To themselves, atheists don't go to Hell. Duh. To the Christians, atheists are condemned to the Christian Hell, and same perspective with the Muslims.

How can one soul be condemned to two seperate hells?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

2) The if is there because obviously Christians don't believe Islam is the true legetimate religion so therefore they can't condemn themselves to a Hell which arises from something they believe to be imaginary and even blasphemous.

If you had picked up on my point, you would be able to see how your use of the word legitimates what I am trying to say.

NicVJ · 06-24-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skwidward

I made this thread under the assumption that it was understood that by not believing in Jesus Christ, you are in fact making the decsion to go to hell. If this is not true, how come there is a thread full of 5 pages of Christian testimonials stating that it is so?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicVJ

I think the point some theists here make is that the signs are too obvious and glaring that to avoid or dismiss them is simply impossible and ignorant. Thus, it deserves hell. The crux then, is whether these signs are really that manifested and comprehensible to everyone as it is to themselves.

The Christians obviously believe their religion to be true as do the Muslims as do the Atheists. Conclusions then drawn from this premise, ie that of going to Hell, attaining virgins in Heaven and the like are thus moot and null. Your point then on who's going to who's hell etc is irrelevant because there is no universally right or wrong perspective. The point is, as I've highlighted above, how much of the religion is believable so as to make it probably real.

EDIT: I don't, and with the way you're replying, I probably won't see what exactly you're trying to point out other than the matters which I've already brought up.