The two schools of thought on this forum

[ZaneWannabe]

There seem to be only two outlooks on the IFBB section that people take. The first is the group of people who attempt to demean everything these pros work so hard for. The most frequent target of this is, of course, Bob Chick, because though he has an opinion and shares it with you, his isn't valid because he was never a "top-tier" champion. He has no right to critique King Kamali, Franco Columbu, Gary Strydom, or any of the other abundantly flawed bodybuilders (read: every bodybuilder is abundantly flawed) because he never accomplished what some of them did, according to many of you. I read these forums and lift weights, pose, and eat right because I love bodybuilding. Obviously Bob does too. He has every right to take an interest in his sport, especially when he is doing a vast amount more than most bodybuilders to enhance its appeal. I'm not doing this in defense of Bob, I highly doubt he cares one way or the other, since, after all, he has made money because his body looks good. Got that? He has made money from posing in front of people because they enjoy it. I'm only doing this to save anyone who wastes their time disrespecting him from their effort.

However, I'm certainly not from the other camp of people, who seem to think the pros are above reproach. These people often say things like "Oh yeah, Ronnie's tris are small? Let's see yours." Well, of course Ronnie's tris and calves are bigger than mine, but that doesn't matter. Pros live their lives participating in a sport which is intended to be judged subjectively. If you had to be bigger and more developed than Mr. Olympia to judge him, we'd be hard-pressed to find judges. When we first saw bodybuilders, we said "Wooooow." Maybe we've become a little jaded, but we're still amazed... but we can be just as struck by someone's lack of symmetry, proportion, mass, or lagging body parts as we are by how well-developed every single pro is.

Basically, what I'm saying is, sure, all the bodybuilders we're seeing pictures of on here are pretty amazing in their own way, but that doesn't mean they're beyond our criticism, since their job is to take it. However, we all need to make efforts to look deeper into someone's opinion than, "Well let's see your pics," or "He's placed 4th at the Olympia, what have you done, Bob?" We've all done enough to judge pro bodybuilders however we want: we've looked at them; that's all it takes.

[Caesar164]

I agree, but constructive criticism is one thing; but some could be outright mean and disrespectful, which is really uncalled for...

[stealth_swimmer]

Originally Posted by ZaneWannabe

There seem to be only two outlooks on the IFBB section that people take. The first is the group of people who attempt to demean everything these pros work so hard for. The most frequent target of this is, of course, Bob Chick, because though he has an opinion and shares it with you, his isn't valid because he was never a "top-tier" champion. He has no right to critique King Kamali, Franco Columbu, Gary Strydom, or any of the other abundantly flawed bodybuilders (read: every bodybuilder is abundantly flawed) because he never accomplished what some of them did, according to many of you. I read these forums and lift weights, pose, and eat right because I love bodybuilding. Obviously Bob does too. He has every right to take an interest in his sport, especially when he is doing a vast amount more than most bodybuilders to enhance its appeal. I'm not doing this in defense of Bob, I highly doubt he cares one way or the other, since, after all, he has made money because his body looks good. Got that? He has made money from posing in front of people because they enjoy it. I'm only doing this to save anyone who wastes their time disrespecting him from their effort.

However, I'm certainly not from the other camp of people, who seem to think the pros are above reproach. These people often say things like "Oh yeah, Ronnie's tris are small? Let's see yours." Well, of course Ronnie's tris and calves are bigger than mine, but that doesn't matter. Pros live their lives participating in a sport which is intended to be judged subjectively. If you had to be bigger and more developed than Mr. Olympia to judge him, we'd be hard-pressed to find judges. When we first saw bodybuilders, we said "Wooooow." Maybe we've become a little jaded, but we're still amazed... but we can be just as struck by someone's lack of symmetry, proportion, mass, or lagging body parts as we are by how well-developed every single pro is.

Basically, what I'm saying is, sure, all the bodybuilders we're seeing pictures of on here are pretty amazing in their own way, but that doesn't mean they're beyond our criticism, since their job is to take it. However, we all need to make efforts to look deeper into someone's opinion than, "Well let's see your pics," or "He's placed 4th at the Olympia, what have you done, Bob?" We've all done enough to judge pro bodybuilders however we want: we've looked at them; that's all it takes.

I've noticed these two categories as well, and I'm with you on this one. If you had to be better than a bodybuilder to judge them, how would we even have bodybuilding competitions? I take a more realistic approach. Of course I'm not better than a pro, few are. I do my best to critique without being disrepectful(all the pros worked to get where they are at), and others need to try doing the same. I'm glad you made this post. Hopefully people will read it.

[stealth_swimmer]

One more thing....Roar!

[user23960508710783]

Sure, your insight on the matter has some value.

The one thing I disagree with is the characterization that there is an entire camp of people who are hyper-critical of Bob. In my view, it's just the opposite. To me, it seems like every other thread is some sort of "Ask Bob" or "Bob, you're great" thread.

I'm not saying that this bad, or that there aren't people who are critical of Bob. It's just that there seems to be far more people who are pro-Bob than anti-Bob.

[ZaneWannabe]

Originally Posted by Jean-Paul4447

Sure, your insight on the matter has some value.

The one thing I disagree with is the characterization that there is an entire camp of people who are hyper-critical of Bob. In my view, it's just the opposite. To me, it seems like every other thread is some sort of "Ask Bob" or "Bob, you're great" thread.

I'm not saying that this bad, or that there aren't people who are critical of Bob. It's just that there seems to be far more people who are pro-Bob than anti-Bob.

You are absolutely right about the majority of people loving Bob, the reason being that when you submit something to him, it actually has a chance of being answered. He's a man of character and candor in addition to having a pro body. I agree it's out of hand when people say things predicting Bob's placings in the next Mr. O, but it just strikes me as naivete, whereas when someone goes out of their way to insult someone who has established hisself as committed and lasting professional, it's repugnant.

In short, I wouldn't go so far as to say there is a great proportion of people who disrespect pros like that, it's just that they demand attention so much, and are so inflammatory, they sully the boards with their comments.

I'm allowed to say Gustavo Badell has watery glutes, but how am I allowed to say he's not a good bodybuilder? Of course coming in third in the Olympia precludes this.

However, here's where it gets tougher. I'm allowed to say King Kamali has odd proportions, small arms, and a wide waist (in addition to a big mouth) but again, he gets paid because of how he looks, so to comment on his place in the sport is uncalled for.

[BODYBUILDER889]

Originally Posted by ZaneWannabe

You are absolutely right about the majority of people loving Bob, the reason being that when you submit something to him, it actually has a chance of being answered. He's a man of character and candor in addition to having a pro body. I agree it's out of hand when people say things predicting Bob's placings in the next Mr. O, but it just strikes me as naivete, whereas when someone goes out of their way to insult someone who has established hisself as committed and lasting professional, it's repugnant.

In short, I wouldn't go so far as to say there is a great proportion of people who disrespect pros like that, it's just that they demand attention so much, and are so inflammatory, they sully the boards with their comments.

I'm allowed to say Gustavo Badell has watery glutes, but how am I allowed to say he's not a good bodybuilder? Of course coming in third in the Olympia precludes this.

However, here's where it gets tougher. I'm allowed to say King Kamali has odd proportions, small arms, and a wide waist (in addition to a big mouth) but again, he gets paid because of how he looks, so to comment on his place in the sport is uncalled for.

am i allowed to say i dont like gustavo? he's a great bodybuilder but he always seems distant from his fans even at an expo where he isnt competing. i dont like kamali for having an ego problem but thats prevalant in any sport so i get over it or ignore it. any troll can say" oh he's off" or " man that guys arms are terrible" but only a really helpful person can offer constructive critisism. who going to offer advice to chick anyways? he's not going to listen because its how he makes his living so flaming or insulting pros always falls on deaf ears. dont worry about them, focus on your own body and this sport will be better off. people who insult me just a fuel to the fire man.

[stealth_swimmer]

Originally Posted by BODYBUILDER889

am i allowed to say i dont like gustavo? he's a great bodybuilder but he always seems distant from his fans even at an expo where he isnt competing. i dont like kamali for having an ego problem but thats prevalant in any sport so i get over it or ignore it. any troll can say" oh he's off" or " man that guys arms are terrible" but only a really helpful person can offer constructive critisism. who going to offer advice to chick anyways? he's not going to listen because its how he makes his living so flaming or insulting pros always falls on deaf ears. dont worry about them, focus on your own body and this sport will be better off. people who insult me just a fuel to the fire man.

*phew* Glad to see that someone else gets it too. Reps to you pal.

[BODYBUILDER889]

Originally Posted by Jean-Paul4447

Sure, your insight on the matter has some value.

The one thing I disagree with is the characterization that there is an entire camp of people who are hyper-critical of Bob. In my view, it's just the opposite. To me, it seems like every other thread is some sort of "Ask Bob" or "Bob, you're great" thread.

I'm not saying that this bad, or that there aren't people who are critical of Bob. It's just that there seems to be far more people who are pro-Bob than anti-Bob.

i guess im pro bob but he's not my favorite. my motto is dont criticise unless you can back it up. when my lat spread matches bobs then if needed and wanted i would give him a pointer...pipe dream huh?

[ZaneWannabe]

Originally Posted by BODYBUILDER889

am i allowed to say i dont like gustavo? he's a great bodybuilder but he always seems distant from his fans even at an expo where he isnt competing. i dont like kamali for having an ego problem but thats prevalant in any sport so i get over it or ignore it. any troll can say" oh he's off" or " man that guys arms are terrible" but only a really helpful person can offer constructive critisism. who going to offer advice to chick anyways? he's not going to listen because its how he makes his living so flaming or insulting pros always falls on deaf ears. dont worry about them, focus on your own body and this sport will be better off. people who insult me just a fuel to the fire man.

Well, I guess you're allowed to, but I've always been the kind of guy that doesn't believe athletes have any responsibility to be role models or good citizens anymore than the normal person does... if Gustavo is standoffish or a jerk, it doesn't affect him as a BODYBUILDER... now, sure, you can definitely say you don't like him as a person but he's not getting paid to be friendly. His body is his only job.

And saying "any troll" can critique someone's body is a little off base... We don't really have a right to offer the pros any advice unless they ask us, which is quite unlikely for a multitude of reasons. Therefore, all we really can do is offer our opinions about someone's body, as it is. There are some bbers that are quite simply never going to have satisfactory legs, pecs, arms, whatever, and it's okay to note that. "Trolling" is when you try to inflame the nerves of board members who are fans of that bber, or insist that these flaws make them a terrible bodybuilder... that is what you DON'T have a right to judge.

[stefanh]

Good thread, I completely agree. Although constructive critisicm is something that could probably be exercised more on this forum, and respect for your fellow bb fans. I'm not saying that I always do this to perfection either, just my two cents

[BODYBUILDER889]

Originally Posted by ZaneWannabe

that is what you DON'T have a right to judge.

that what i was saying.....

[Flex500]

Originally Posted by Caesar164

I agree, but constructive criticism is one thing; but some could be outright mean and disrespectful, which is really uncalled for...

and I think that sums it up right there.

nothing wrong with criticism. I mean hell turn on ESPN we are talking and critisizing athletes all the time.

But when someone says "Ronnie Coleman has small a*s calves." or "his calves f*cking suck." You know what? at that point I think it is fine to say "ok pal let's see yours if ronnie's suck so bad.

However there is nothing wrong with saying "ronnie needs to bring his calves up to look more proportional."

[user23960508710783]

I'm not convinced that any sort of criticism is necessarily untenable. I think that "how" someone critiques a pro is probably much more important than what the actual criticism is.

So long as everyone is polite and at least somewhat respectful, I think any sort of criticism is alright. This would include saying a certain bodybuilder isn't friendly, or that another has small arms and a wide waist, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that so long as the criticism is put politely, it should be ok.

[stealth_swimmer]

Originally Posted by Jean-Paul4447

I'm not convinced that any sort of criticism is necessarily untenable. I think that "how" someone critiques a pro is probably much more important than what the actual criticism is.

So long as everyone is polite and at least somewhat respectful, I think any sort of criticism is alright. This would include saying a certain bodybuilder isn't friendly, or that another has small arms and a wide waist, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that so long as the criticism is put politely, it should be ok.

You definitely put it the best way.