Benching, Squatting, Deadlifts - enough for a workout, or not quite?

[Josh1billion]

A friend told me that the most important exercises are benching, squatting, and deadlifts, and that those alone are a good workout. I'm planning on throwing in some dumbell curls, too, to increase the biceps. I'm thinking about doing everything on Mon/Wed/Fri.. so the workout would be something like..

Workout
Monday/Wednesday/Friday:
-Squat: 2x12
-Bench press: 2x12
-Deadlift (hex bar): 2x12
-Dumbell curl: 2x12

So, is this enough to work with? Or am I missing some important muscles?

Goals
My goal is to build an awesome body.. I'm not going for strength in particular, although that's a nice bonus. I want to especially target my pecks, abs, and biceps, while keeping the whole body in general

Nutrition
I highly doubt I'll be able to manage enough protein per day to meet the recommended amounts (1.0 to 1.5 g per pound of body weight), so for the time being, I'll just eat what I can (some chicken here and there, eggs for breakfast, a glass of milk) in addition to downing a glass of whey (which will be consumed once I get home from lifting, maybe 15 minutes after I put down the last weight). If things go well in the gym, I'll throw in some protein bars if I get a chance to. I'll see if I can pick up some chicken and fish on the next trip to the grocery store, but it still probably won't be enough.

Tanning
I just thought I'd throw this in here. I've started tanning recently, and this should make my muscles appear more defined.

[metaldrumr7]

I would look into the starting strength program if your just starting out, and you aren't going to grow muscle if you don't eat enough protein or calories.

[musicjunkie]

^^^ like what he said...i am cyrrently doing the 5x5 routine and it incorporates all the lifts u listed above.
do a google search on "madcow geocities 5x5 routine"
its a geocities website....

[jimdab]

It might be better to follow routine with a normal split so each muscle group can have more rest days inbetween.

While those 3 lifts ARE the most beneficial lifts and will probably be the most mass-developing lifts that you can do, you aren't really allowing much time for recovery.

Also, you aren't really hitting your shoulders, upper back, or abs much but those 3 big lifts will definately hit every single muscle in your body to some extent.

[Josh1billion]

Madcow's 5x5 routine ( here: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm ) looks good. I'll read it some more later on (probably tomorrow) and I'll probably use it.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Also, Jimdab, you mentioned that my abs were not being targetted much here. Anyone have any recommendations of something to add for abs?

[metaldrumr7]

do a a few sets of weighted situps every workout day, I would also suggest weighted hyperextensions if you have access to a hyperextension bench

[Ace_frehly]

I know you want those enhanced pec muscles so you look hot in the mirror..but there is another side to your body. We call it the back. Dead does this a little..but without some chinnie chins or some rows you aren't going to be balanced. But you'll have a great rack...er.. pecs.

[Josh1billion]

What are "chinnie chins?" I thought I saw an exercise on another workout called a chin or chin-something, and that's probably what you're talking about, but I'm not sure what it is and how to do it.

[Ace_frehly]

You've done them. All you need is a bar above your head. They are difficult and work your bi's and back and formarms. And you shouldn't swing while you do them. Are we getting warmer?

[Josh1billion]

Ah, chin-ups/pull-ups. I was thinking that, but then I thought "pull-up" was the official name.

Thanks for all the help, everyone. I might post a final version of my workout in this thread within a day or two.

[ThaCondor]

Well me and my friend had the same thought. Ive settled on the routine thats presented over @ Ironaddicts board
squat 2x8-12
bench2x8-12
row2x8-12
military press 2x8-12
sldl 2x8-12
abs 2x10

The thought process that we had was that these 3 are the main lifts (Squat Bench, Deadlift) and doing these would allow a person to become better on them and advance on them. And get our numbers up quickly. Then we thought that if we just alternated with rows or military presses that would take care of any thing that was lacking.

We would have set it up this way
mon/fri
squat bench deadlift row

wed
squat bench deadlift military press

tues/thur cardio and ab work

Squats would be ATG to activate every muscle we could
Bench incline to work shoulders as well, with a grip that wasnt so wide to activate tris aswell
Deadlift would hit pretty much everything except chest

I mean it would stop working but we thought we would milk as far as we could.

[Josh1billion]

ThaCondor, thanks for the advice, that's an interesting workout and it looks pretty good.

But now, I'm mostly thinking about doing the Madcow intermediate 5x5 workout (link).

However, I'm not sure if I should do this or if I should do a beginners' program. Madcow's page says this about beginners trying to do the Madcow intermediate 5x5 program:

This is not a beginner program. You will make faster progress with less workload on a true beginner program. I really recommend Rippetoe's Starting Strength for beginners or novices.

So, maybe I should do a beginners' program instead? I'm not sure if I could be considered a beginner or not, this is what I'm asking you guys right now: would I be able to still take advantage of beginner gains, or is that time long past? See, I started working out about a year ago (not the full year, but a good part of it), but I've had very little gains. Here's what the past year has consisted of for me, working out:

Summer 2005: worked out using a Crossbow and with bad form. Some muscle gain, but not much at all. I didn't really follow a diet at this time, but I ate a little more protein when I could.

Winter 2005-2006: I lifted a few days after school, not much. This was mostly a long time without lifting.

February 2006 - early June 2006: I was in a weight training class at school. Some gains, but a lot less than a bodybuilder would be expected to gain. To be honest, I was the weakest guy in the class (about a dozen people), but I'm still stronger than the average guy who doesn't lift, of course.

So, the question again is this: will I be able to take advantage of beginner gains, or should I do Madcow's intermediate 5x5 program?

--

On another note, one thing I don't like about Madcow's program is that since you warm up to your max, I'll be forced to bench my first set at an extremely low weight which will be embarrassing.. my max for 5 is around 120 lb's, so I'd have to bench my first set at around 60 lb's (maybe less, I didn't do the calculations on the page just yet). The bar being 45 lb's, it'll look really gay to bench 60 lb's with a bunch of friends and girls in the room...

[Chitown hitter]

On another note, one thing I don't like about Madcow's program is that since you warm up to your max, I'll be forced to bench my first set at an extremely low weight which will be embarrassing.. my max for 5 is around 120 lb's, so I'd have to bench my first set at around 60 lb's (maybe less, I didn't do the calculations on the page just yet). The bar being 45 lb's, it'll look really gay to bench 60 lb's with a bunch of friends and girls in the room...

Check your ego at the door. Throw on your headphones and just lift. Don't pay attention to the people that aren't lifting *with* you. If you're worried about impressing girls just keep on lifting for a few years. When you can pick them up off the ground and put them on your face/shoulders after a few years of dedicated, heavy lifting they'll be impressed. Weight lifting isn't like McDonalds, you can't get your double-biceps for a buck in 5 minutes. It takes time and dedication. So eat alot, lift hard and don't worry about looking like a pussy. You'll get plenty of it down the road.

[Squats]

I would suggest increasing sets, decreasing reps, and add in another exercise or two.

[ThaCondor]

Well Im still thinking about what to do the reason I perfer the routine presented over @ Ironaddicts board is because I can work each excercise 3 times a week. So I can try and add reps or wieght each workout. Thats the only reason Im not jumping on the rippetoe bandwagon is that I want to bench,squat,row,deadlift, and do military presses intially every workout. So I can improve on them.

Again that was the reason behind that other workout so that we could do it more than once a week and perhaps 3 times a week and get our numbers up on those lifts.

I actually have a question for those who know their Iron History, didnt guys like Reg Park train like that? with just those compound excercises every workout? Reg Park was a natural and made great gains. If someone could answer that it would be awesome.

Im actually thinking that Im gonna go with the routine presented over @ ironaddicts board get profecient at those lifts and comfortable doing them, and when my gains stop look into rippetoe.

Im sorry if I hijacked your thread here.

[Josh1billion]

Originally Posted by ThaCondor

Im sorry if I hijacked your thread here.

No problem. You helped me out with some advice, and it's alright if you ask for some help of your own on this related matter in the topic.

Originally Posted by Chitown hitter

Check your ego at the door. Throw on your headphones and just lift. Don't pay attention to the people that aren't lifting *with* you. If you're worried about impressing girls just keep on lifting for a few years. When you can pick them up off the ground and put them on your face/shoulders after a few years of dedicated, heavy lifting they'll be impressed. Weight lifting isn't like McDonalds, you can't get your double-biceps for a buck in 5 minutes. It takes time and dedication. So eat alot, lift hard and don't worry about looking like a pussy. You'll get plenty of it down the road.

You make a good point. Still, it looks really strange to see someone using a bar with 5-10 lb's on each side. But if anyone asks, I'll just say I'm warming up or something. Technically, that's true, as that's the focus of the program.

So I'm 99% sure I'll be using the Madcow routine now. No one has yet to address my most recent question, though: after my experiences (listed in my post above), will I still be able to take advantage of beginner gains (and thus, change my routine to something more beginner-oriented than Madcow's 5x5 program)?

[Chitown hitter]

Considering your training history it doesn't sound like you've had a very solid foundation in lifting (no insult intended). I would go for Rip's program. Make sure that your form is near perfect on each of your core lifts (squat, bench, deadlift) and learn to love them.

Here's a link to a thread on Rip's program. It pretty much answers every single question you can think of: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752

Also, though the accessory lifts are optional, I've found them very helpful in my limited 5x5 experience.

Good luck and eat a ton.

[mjw8204]

Originally Posted by Josh1billion

Still, it looks really strange to see someone using a bar with 5-10 lb's on each side. But if anyone asks, I'll just say I'm warming up or something. Technically, that's true, as that's the focus of the program.

Oh good grief, who f*cking cares?! If someone actually comments on your weight lifting (I can't imagine why anyone would care) just tell them to mind their own f*cking business.

Today at the gym I saw some guy doing quarter squats in the smith machine, pushing an ungodly amount of weight. Thats right, quarter squats in a smith machine. Big f*ckin' whoop, right? Practically the entire weight room was standing around him cheering him on. He was screaming, grunting, red-raced and slobbering. Everyone else might have been impressed, but I knew better. My point? People are stupid. Who cares what they think. If pushing sissy weights is the biggest source of embarassment you will ever deal with, then I think you've got it pretty good.

[Ace_frehly]

I couldn't agree more with MJW here. Check this link and watch the video of an olympic squat:

http://www.bsu.edu/webapps2/strengthlab/home.htm

Now tell me the last time you saw someone at your gym do a squat like this. I would be more impressed by a 120lb kid doing 65lbs with perfect form like this than all the donks on the smith machines with their girlfriends squatting 225lbs with 1/4 of range of motion. The more you read here..the more you will realize that 95% of the people in a weight room have no idea what they are doing and have no plan or goal. I have honestly never seen anyone do a true ATG squat in the gym before with correct form. NEVER. In 13 years.

Also if you follow a good program, Ripp's or 5x5 and eat correctly and follow it to a T...within a month you will be doing weights that will be plenty impressive. And in 4 months if you haven't pussed out...you will be outsquatting everyone...simply because you used good form, you ate, and you had a plan of attack to add strength. And everyone else will be doing 10lbs more than 4 months ago with 1/4 range of motion on the smith machine because that seems "safer on the knees that an olympic barbell squat" (assuming they haven't injured their knees.

[Chitown hitter]

Originally Posted by Ace_frehly

And everyone else will be doing 10lbs more than 4 months ago with 1/4 range of motion on the smith machine because that seems "safer on the knees that an olympic barbell squat" (assuming they haven't injured their knees.

Quite true. And it took me nearly 2 hours of explaning body mechanics to my lifting partner's mother (he's still in college and i graduated last year) until she agreed that the ATG squat was safer than the smith machine squat. She'd been preached to for years by a trainer telling her that the smith machine squat was the only safe squat. My assumption is that there's some kind of liability issue if a client gets injured. That assumption went out the window when I realized that quite a few trainers don't know what they're doing and just want the people in and out really fast.

[LSU1]

Originally Posted by ThaCondor

Well Im still thinking about what to do the reason I perfer the routine presented over @ Ironaddicts board is because I can work each excercise 3 times a week. So I can try and add reps or wieght each workout. Thats the only reason Im not jumping on the rippetoe bandwagon is that I want to bench,squat,row,deadlift, and do military presses intially every workout. So I can improve on them.

Again that was the reason behind that other workout so that we could do it more than once a week and perhaps 3 times a week and get our numbers up on those lifts.

I actually have a question for those who know their Iron History, didnt guys like Reg Park train like that? with just those compound excercises every workout? Reg Park was a natural and made great gains. If someone could answer that it would be awesome.

Im actually thinking that Im gonna go with the routine presented over @ ironaddicts board get profecient at those lifts and comfortable doing them, and when my gains stop look into rippetoe.

Im sorry if I hijacked your thread here.

HST is another good program in which you do all of those lifts three times a week. If interested, either check my log or check their website.

[ThaCondor]

well Ive actually decided to push myself with linear progression until I can.

I plan to use the routine I posted, this will help me get used to the excercises/learn them. And wont be to demanding on my joints.

squat 2x10-12
sldl 2x10-12
bench 2x10-12
row 2x10-12
military press 2x10-12
abs

And then plan to move onto rippetoe and then eventually Starrs 5x5. Each workout will be run until it stops working. Hopefully I can add 100 pounds to each one of my lifts by this time next year.

I'll look into periodization after I finish with starrs 5x5 which is sort of like that.


my end goal is to build a strong body that looks good.

[Josh1billion]

I've decided that, now, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to eat enough protein. Eggs are really inexpensive (18 for around $1.34 or something), so I'll just eat a lot of eggs every day and drink some milk.

Here's how I'm thinking the diet will go, please offer feedback. I'm not sure if I'll be cutting or bulking.. probably somewhere inbetween. My goal with this diet is just to get the protein that I need to build muscle (with my main goal being to create a body that looks great).
(note: ~ means approximately)

Current body weight: about 170 lb's
Height: a little over 6 feet tall
BF%: Unknown, probably higher than I'd like it to be

Target nutrition (should I shoot higher? let me know)
170g protein

Meal 1
3 Eggs (fried) - 18g protein / 210 calories / 13.5g fat
1 glass of milk (~1.25 cups) = ~10g protein / ~163 calories / ~ 6.25g fat
Total: 28g protein / 373 calories / 19.75g fat

Meal 2
Peanut butter sandwich... total: 12g protein / 330 calories / 18g fat
...2 slices of white bread - 4g protein / 140 calories / 2g fat
...2 tbsp. peanut butter - 8g protein / 190 calories / 16g fat
1 glass of milk (~1.25 cups) = ~10g protein / ~163 calories / ~ 6.25g fat
Total: 22g protein / 493 calories / 24.25g fat

Meal 3 (workout days only: taken within an hour after workout)
Whey protein shake...
...1 glass of milk (~1.25 cups) = ~10g protein / ~163 calories / ~6.25g fat
...1 scoop of chocolate whey (GNC Pro Performance brand) = 20g protein / 130 calories / 2.5g fat
...2 tbsp. peanut butter - 8g protein / 190 calories / 16g fat
Total: 38 g protein / 483 calories / 24.75g fat

The Daily Plan
A combination of Meals 1 and 2 (and 3 on workout days) to equal a protein intake greater than or equal to the target protein intake (stated above: 170g protein). Specific times of the plan will be posted later.. I'm thinking of about 5-7 meals throughout the day. Suggestions are welcome.

I will probably start drinking skim (fat-free) milk, so I'll post an updated version of the diet when that time comes. Also, you see that the peanut butter is really high in fat.. apparently, the only fat-free peanut butter that the nearby grocery store(s) sell is the crunchy kind, while I prefer smooth. I guess I could give it a shot.

[TheCore]

Guess I can post the same thing here;

I also did squats, deadlifts and bench presses on the same day, nothing wrong with that. I did use variations though;

A;
Squats (olympic style)
SLD
Flat BP
Rows
Military Press

B;
Squatting, while keeping the barbell locked out overhead
Deadlift (normal one)
Incline BP
Chin-ups
Dips

The squatting like in workout B, forces you to use much lighter weights, it's heavy and hard. You need to stabilize your whole body, and shows you why you need a strong core!!!!
I use the heavy weights on the deadlifts in workout B, and in the olympic squats in workout A (lower weight when doing the SLD)...

You could add some core work (crunches + hypers), one bicep curl exercise for your girl and maybe calf raises if your calves are lacking...

Rotate the workouts;

Week 1; Monday A, Wednesday B, Friday A.
Week 2; Monday B, Wednesday A, Friday B.

[latrell]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=815756

this thread will surely help you out as the workout templates are all based around the big compounds!!