There is no useless exercise: only useless ways of performing them!

[JOHN GARGANI]

forgive me for the unabashed tooting of my own horn!!!

but something came up in another thread, and I want to put in my reply:

let me give you a little analogy: how many of you out there started out with a basic set of barbells/dumbbells with those silly looking plastic covered weights so that they wouldn't mar the floor????

well, I certainly did, remember them well: I would love to know how many people saw noticeable progress on their bodies with nothing more to work out with than that starter set of gear........

my point is this: bodybuilding is what you make out of it!!!! you could have next to nothing, and you could find a way to get something positive out of it.....

the same applies to each movement: and keep in mind, that there are a couple of thousand of them!!!


THERE IS A WAY TO GET SOMETHING USEFUL OUT OF EVERY SINGLE EXERCISE!!!

but, we have to find a way that works for OUR body.......

there is nothing INHERENTLY useless about an exercise: only useless ways of doing them.....

again, quoting myself, sorry......But, I felt that these statments were so important based upon the typical threads and posts that you see on here....

People are so quick to write off things: movements, routines, concepts, etc.......


bodybuilding is a game of results: and there are countless ways to skin the cat so to speak....and that most certainly applies to the various movements: in Bill Pearl's book, he has about 1500 different movements!!!

any one of them can be terrific for you: as well as bad for you: but the key is always to tailor them to your body:

with a little tweak here and there, it can make all the difference.....before writing off any exercise as a waste of time, we have to make sure we have tried different ways of doing them, whether it is different angles, or grips or any other methodology.........


it is okay to say: doing flyes the standard way does nothing to my body but hurt my shoulder joint.......

but it is NOT okay to say: doing flyes does nothing for anybody's body........


that type of thinking, which is rampant here, just reeks of close-mindedness.....

I consider every movement that I either wont do, or cant do, a failure on my part!!! it means that I have not arrived at a safe and effective way of doing them for my body........

[JCVP]

Heh, this reminds me. I did Side Bends in my last workout by placing the barbell on my back, and well bending sideways. It has to be the best feeling I have ever felt in the side of my body the next day. Granted, sore, but a unique movement that really did me good. Most of all, I performed the exercise slowly and efficiently. I use to always think an exercise of that "sort" was useless and pointless to do.

[j_neatherlin]

there may not be any useless exercises, but there are certainly exercises that are more effective and exercises that are less effective.

my philosophy: why waste time and fill up my workouts with less effective exercises when i can maximize my time, effort and results with the most effective exercises?

[Tyrbolift]

I agree, John. I get tired of hearing that, and even more tired of being argued with about it.

[Weightaholic]

Kickbacks OWN.

Sorry, just had to post that!

[Zensuji]

Originally Posted by Tyrbolift

I agree, John. I get tired of hearing that, and even more tired of being argued with about it.

thats why i dont spend as much time on here as i use to

[Tyrbolift]

Yep, and lay off people doing something you perceive as useless, because they may be doing just that.

[JOHN GARGANI]

my philosophy: why waste time and fill up my workouts with less effective exercises when i can maximize my time, effort and results with the most effective exercises?

FINE J!!! and I agree: but remember: less effective for YOU!!!!

maybe, more effective for someone else.....

that is my point........

[papi93]

Here's great program that I used when I only had access to free weights and no cardio machine access (when a co-worker first opened up his own personal training studio): http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459589

[Tumescent]

Originally Posted by j_neatherlin

there may not be any useless exercises, but there are certainly exercises that are more effective and exercises that are less effective.

my philosophy: why waste time and fill up my workouts with less effective exercises when i can maximize my time, effort and results with the most effective exercises?

I have to agree 100%

Sure there is no such thing as a useless exercise but there is definitely something as an inferior exercise and not just for an individual but even on a broader scale than that.

Lets take kickbacks for example (seeing as it looks like they caused all the hassle). Sure they could have their benefits but there is no denying that CGBP for example is way superior in every respect be it overload weight or muscle fiber recruitment. I'm no real fan of EMG studies but they do highlight how the muscle is being utilized while performing a particular movement.

I honestly don’t like spending hours on end in the gym because I like to go in, train hard and get out... filling a program with sub standard movements is in the greater picture counter productive as you are wasting time and energy.

[rockhuddy]

Originally Posted by Tumescent

filling a program with sub standard movements is in the greater picture counter productive as you are wasting time and energy.

Agreed. If a movement is stressing the body, it's hard to call it useless. Less useful, though, is a valid label. For example: Leg presses aren't useless, but they aren't as useful as squats, front raises aren't useless, but they aren't as useful as military presses, and hyperextensions aren't useless, but they aren't as useful as good mornings.

And several exercises that have unecessary risk for injury are close to useless, like situps and upright rows. Worthless? No, but you sure as hell could do better.

[Tyrbolift]

Originally Posted by rockhuddy

Agreed. If a movement is stressing the body, it's hard to call it useless. Less useful, though, is a valid label. For example: Leg presses aren't useless, but they aren't as useful as squats, front raises aren't useless, but they aren't as useful as military presses, and hyperextensions aren't useless, but they aren't as useful as good mornings.

And several exercises that have unecessary risk for injury are close to useless, like situps and upright rows. Worthless? No, but you sure as hell could do better.

You know, sometimes in the interest of symmetry, or in the interest of lightening up somewhere that you are more developed than elsewhere or have some temporary ailment or condition, you may actually WANT to do an exercise that is less efficient or useful.

Whoever said you have to go whole hog total development on things that are obviously your strength!???

I want to be big and all, but I don't want to be lopsided. So let people do things that are more inefficient if they want to--you don't know their reasons or what their personal deal is!

[rockhuddy]

Originally Posted by Tyrbolift

You know, sometimes in the interest of symmetry, or in the interest of lightening up somewhere that you are more developed than elsewhere or have some temporary ailment or condition, you may actually WANT to do an exercise that is less efficient or useful.

Whoever said you have to go whole hog total development on things that are obviously your strength!???

I want to be big and all, but I don't want to be lopsided. So let people do things that are more inefficient if they want to--you don't know their reasons or what their personal deal is!

No, I agree, that's fine. It would be boring if the only exercises you performed were the 'perfect' ones.

I still think that two for sure, though, situps and upright rows, are worthless simply because of the injury potential to the lower back and shoulders, respectively.

[gymratluke]

Originally Posted by rockhuddy

Agreed. If a movement is stressing the body, it's hard to call it useless. Less useful, though, is a valid label. For example: Leg presses aren't useless, but they aren't as useful as squats, front raises aren't useless, but they aren't as useful as military presses, and hyperextensions aren't useless, but they aren't as useful as good mornings.

And several exercises that have unecessary risk for injury are close to useless, like situps and upright rows. Worthless? No, but you sure as hell could do better.

I say the reason you cant call Leg press useless is because you're gonna get SOMETHING out of pressing 1000 lbs with your legs, on the other hand, we'll take KICKBACKS for example What is it about being bent over with your arm tucked in at your side using a 25lb DB thats gonna stimulate your tri's enough to make them grow?! NOTHING!

[Tyrbolift]

Originally Posted by gymratluke

I say the reason you cant call Leg press useless is because you're gonna get SOMETHING out of pressing 1000 lbs with your legs, on the other hand, we'll take KICKBACKS for example What is it about being bent over with your arm tucked in at your side using a 25lb DB thats gonna stimulate your tri's enough to make them grow?! NOTHING!

...and the kickback war continues...lol

[gymratluke]

Originally Posted by Tyrbolift

...and the kickback war continues...lol

yeah yeah yeah, what can i say....the war will go on until someone gives me an answer that puts me in my place

[JOHN GARGANI]

LUKE: see if you can get a hold of Larry Scott's training video, and watch how he does kickbacks! He uses BIG Dbs: close to 100 pounds!!!

he does it as a one handed CHEAT movement! that is right, a cheat power movement.......

there is no denying the results he has gotten, in fact, at age 62, his arms are still awesome......

just an example of how you might take a "worthless" exercise and use it to your advantage in a different manner.......

we also have to get away from the thinking that unless a movement allows us to use superheavy weights, it is not effective for growing muscle.....

[AHTTG]

Great point John. That's why I have my sig. as well. At the end of the day, what matters most is effort and commitment and there are many ways to go about building muscle.

And that's also why I stopped replying to most of the "what's the best exercise to build my (insert muscle here) fast" threads. How am I suppose to know? I don't know anything about your training or diet and even if I did, a lot of it is trial and error anyway. Bleh.

[JOHN GARGANI]

you got it, AH!!!!

[W8isGR8]

Originally Posted by AHTTG

Great point John. That's why I have my sig. as well. At the end of the day, what matters most is effort and commitment and there are many ways to go about building muscle.

And that's also why I stopped replying to most of the "what's the best exercise to build my (insert muscle here) fast" threads. How am I suppose to know? I don't know anything about your training or diet and even if I did, a lot of it is trial and error anyway. Bleh.

Synthol

[gymratluke]

Originally Posted by AHTTG

Great point John. That's why I have my sig. as well. At the end of the day, what matters most is effort and commitment and there are many ways to go about building muscle.

And that's also why I stopped replying to most of the "what's the best exercise to build my (insert muscle here) fast" threads. How am I suppose to know? I don't know anything about your training or diet and even if I did, a lot of it is trial and error anyway. Bleh.

Wow, I've never heard Tim make sense like this....

[W8isGR8]

There is no useless exercise, only usless exercisers

[gymratluke]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

LUKE: see if you can get a hold of Larry Scott's training video, and watch how he does kickbacks! He uses BIG Dbs: close to 100 pounds!!!

he does it as a one handed CHEAT movement! that is right, a cheat power movement.......

there is no denying the results he has gotten, in fact, at age 62, his arms are still awesome......

just an example of how you might take a "worthless" exercise and use it to your advantage in a different manner.......

we also have to get away from the thinking that unless a movement allows us to use superheavy weights, it is not effective for growing muscle.....

I guess if you're a pro and on VIT T then anything can work for ya I dont think they are totally useless, just relatively useless

[W8isGR8]

Originally Posted by gymratluke

I dont think they are totally useless, just relatively useless

Like women

[Canadian Iron]

"subtitle: Dance to your own tune

By Keith Wassung

My winter years in high school largely consisted of doing chores around the farm at 5am in thirty degree below temperatures and wrestling. Our high school had a great wrestling tradition. I was always paired up with Butch, who was one weight class lighter than I. Butch did not know the meaning of the word quit. Actually there were a lot of words that Butch did not know the meaning of. I have always suspected that he was too dumb to know that he was tired. During the previous football season we were on a road game and during warm-ups, Butch told the coach that he had forgotten his mouthpiece. One of the trainers had a mouthpiece in the training bag and she went and found a microwave to heat the water in order to form the mouthpiece. They brought the cup of hot water and the mouthpiece out to Butch only to discover that he did have a mouthpiece after all. The coach asked him where he had found his mouthpiece and Butch replied that he had found an old discarded one at the edge of the field and had popped it into his mouth.

Our practices were about two and half hours long and they always ended the same way. During the last fifteen minutes of practice, our coaches would divide us up into two teams and we would have some sort of competition. Usually, it consisted of relay race involving crabwalks, wheelbarrows or two-man carries. If the basketball court was empty, we would occasionally play a fast game of basketball, which always seemed to degenerate into dodge ball.

Did the coaches have us engage in these competitions in order to perfect our wrestling skill-not really. Did it improve our balance or conditioning?- Nope. Then why did we do it? Because it was fun. We looked forward to it, we had fun and it allowed us to end a hard practice on an up-beat note.

Often times certain exercises are deemed "worthless" by other people, most of whom are simply parroting what they have heard others say. These would include, but are not limited to the tricep kickback, concentration curls and the classic worthless exercise, the cable crossover. First of all, can any exercise really be considered worthless? It might be dangerous, especially when performed incorrectly, and it may have a very low productivity factor, but it can hardly be considered worthless. The same people who claim these are worthless exercises will then advise you not to do them, because they will cut into you recuperation. Wait a minute, if the exercise is worthless, then how can it affect your recuperation? Now allow me to make a very important point. There are literally millions of people who perform these "worthless" exercises exclusively. You see them in the gyms and health clubs day in and day out pumping away on the easiest movements they can find. Those people are fooling themselves and they are not the type of people reading this article. I believe that lifting is all about getting bigger and stronger and this occurs when you work the basic movements in a progressive manner. I believe you could probably pick two or three basic exercises and if that was all you ever did, you would be one strong and well built individual. But I also realize that doing those movements over and over would eventually get a little boring, so it's important to do some additional stuff now and then, even if it does not add a lot to your main objectives. One of the first articles that I ever wrote for an internet site was about shoulder development. My program consisted largely of overhead presses, but I also mentioned that at the end of the workout, I did a couple of sets of lateral raises. I received countless numbers of e-mails from guys who could not believe that I would do lateral raises. I even came across a discussion forum where people were debating the reason why I did lateral raises. Some proposed the theory that it helped build the medial deltoid, which aided my overhead presses, others claimed it was for the rotator cuff and most simply said that I was crazy for doing it. They were all wrong, I do them because I like doing them, and for no other reason and I could care less what other people think.

One of the essential keys to longevity in lifting is to have a certain amount of fun in your training. When you get to the point where you dread going to the gym or see it as simply something that you have to do, but really don't want to do, then it is only a matter of time until you will quit altogether. When I was in high school and inn the military, I knew a lot of guys who began a lifting program with great enthusiasm. The bought all of the books, went to the seminars, trained hard and made noteworthy gains. Twenty years later, I do not know a single one of those guys who still lifts. They can claim they don't have time, but they have time to golf, fish, and watch sports. My entire weekly training takes less time that a weekly episode of Monday Night Football. People quit lifting for the most part, because they stopped having fun with their training.

Do what you have to do in order to have fun in your training, even if it means doing some of those worthless exercises.

To Better Health and Happiness

Keith Wassung"

[gymratluke]

Originally Posted by W8isGR8

Like women

EXACTLY! Finally someone understands....

[Tyrbolift]

Originally Posted by Canadian Iron

"subtitle: Dance to your own tune... People quit lifting for the most part, because they stopped having fun with their training.

Do what you have to do in order to have fun in your training, even if it means doing some of those worthless exercises.

To Better Health and Happiness

Keith Wassung"

The older you get, and the longer you've been in this "game", the more relevance these words have...

[AHTTG]

Originally Posted by gymratluke

Wow, I've never heard Tim make sense like this....

pffft

now I need to counter that out, keep up my reputation. Let's see.....


http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/hybrid-motorcycle.html

[Tyrbolift]

Originally Posted by AHTTG

pffft

now I need to counter that out, keep up my reputation. Let's see.....


http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/hybrid-motorcycle.html

Haha. reputation secure...

I think when John started off the thread by unabashedly tooting his own horn, that WASN'T exactly what he had in mind!

[JOHN GARGANI]

Originally Posted by gymratluke

I guess if you're a pro and on VIT T then anything can work for ya I dont think they are totally useless, just relatively useless

Luke: I don't think Larry has touched a steroid in AGES....no need for him to do it....he has been retired from competition for a good 35 years.....